Wow, really Bioware?! (Massive SWTOR spoiler)

[QUOTE="Haarhus"]

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"]I agree the game is fine, and all the haters will be owned after release and a few months after, its the best mmo to come out since wow. You think people would be excited seeing how they have been waiting for this but no they still complain. FelipeInside

Thats what i heard when warhammer, AoC , aion, rift and other "the best" mmos were comming out, they all failed in a long term. Like it or not, soon SW:TOR will join that list also.

But those games already had many complaints in Beta. I don't see ToR having that many complaints...

Also, 1 million preorders I heard..? and that's not counting the countries were it isn't realeased yet. (at launch)

It has 1 million pre-orders because of the name "Star Wars" which is developed by a good company BioWare. When people will start playing, most of them (apart from blinded fanboys) will realize how poor in general and unoriginal game mechanics are. I am not saying that SW:TOR is total crap, but for MMO veterans it brings nothing special at all, as they call it another "WoW-Clone". In 1~4 month(s) after release, this game most likely will start losing massive amounts of subscribers.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

[QUOTE="Haarhus"]

Thats what i heard when warhammer, AoC , aion, rift and other "the best" mmos were comming out, they all failed in a long term. Like it or not, soon SW:TOR will join that list also.

Haarhus

But those games already had many complaints in Beta. I don't see ToR having that many complaints...

Also, 1 million preorders I heard..? and that's not counting the countries were it isn't realeased yet. (at launch)

It has 1 million pre-orders because of the name "Star Wars" which is developed by a good company BioWare. When people will start playing, most of them (apart from blinded fanboys) will realize how poor in general and unoriginal game mechanics are. I am not saying that SW:TOR is total crap, but for MMO veterans it brings nothing special at all, as they call it another "WoW-Clone". In 1~4 month(s) after release, this game most likely will start losing massive amounts of subscribers.

logic has no space in this thread!

It has 1 million pre-orders because of the name "Star Wars" which is developed by a good company BioWare. When people will start playing, most of them (apart from blinded fanboys) will realize how poor in general and unoriginal game mechanics are. I am not saying that SW:TOR is total crap, but for MMO veterans it brings nothing special at all, as they call it another "WoW-Clone". In 1~4 month(s) after release, this game most likely will start losing massive amounts of subscribers.

Haarhus

I just love how people bash swtor, even for it comes out.

I can understand there is still people who play wow, but do we have compare the two games in every single thread...

Just remember swtor was a beta, they could add or remove some features, nevertheless I really liked the game, I can see it has alot of potential. I just hope Bioware wont drop the ball with it by getting over confident.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

[QUOTE="Haarhus"]

Thats what i heard when warhammer, AoC , aion, rift and other "the best" mmos were comming out, they all failed in a long term. Like it or not, soon SW:TOR will join that list also.

Haarhus

But those games already had many complaints in Beta. I don't see ToR having that many complaints...

Also, 1 million preorders I heard..? and that's not counting the countries were it isn't realeased yet. (at launch)

It has 1 million pre-orders because of the name "Star Wars" which is developed by a good company BioWare. When people will start playing, most of them (apart from blinded fanboys) will realize how poor in general and unoriginal game mechanics are. I am not saying that SW:TOR is total crap, but for MMO veterans it brings nothing special at all, as they call it another "WoW-Clone". In 1~4 month(s) after release, this game most likely will start losing massive amounts of subscribers.

SWTOR has functional but mediocre gameplay, extremely linear considering its genre, lacks innovation, lackluster crafting system, and its most advertised feature, the story is simply put horrible, in fact. I feel it may detract more than add if the rest of the stories are like this.

Unremarkable would be a good way to describe the game.

[QUOTE="Haarhus"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

But those games already had many complaints in Beta. I don't see ToR having that many complaints...

Also, 1 million preorders I heard..? and that's not counting the countries were it isn't realeased yet. (at launch)

FelipeInside

It has 1 million pre-orders because of the name "Star Wars" which is developed by a good company BioWare. When people will start playing, most of them (apart from blinded fanboys) will realize how poor in general and unoriginal game mechanics are. I am not saying that SW:TOR is total crap, but for MMO veterans it brings nothing special at all, as they call it another "WoW-Clone". In 1~4 month(s) after release, this game most likely will start losing massive amounts of subscribers.

Umm what? There are plenty of sci fi mmos out there

1. Anarchy onine
2. EvE Online
3. Planetside
4. Fallen Earth
5. Global Agenda
6. A whole lot of F2P mmos

Also, fantasy does not necessarily mean elves and goblins.

[QUOTE="Haarhus"]

It has 1 million pre-orders because of the name "Star Wars" which is developed by a good company BioWare. When people will start playing, most of them (apart from blinded fanboys) will realize how poor in general and unoriginal game mechanics are. I am not saying that SW:TOR is total crap, but for MMO veterans it brings nothing special at all, as they call it another "WoW-Clone". In 1~4 month(s) after release, this game most likely will start losing massive amounts of subscribers.

Am_Confucius

First of all SW:TOR doesnt have more content than WoW and never will. I don't understand how can you compare (in terms of content) new game to the game that was out for 7 years and had bunch of Xpacs. Flashier and prettier, yes of corse.. Problem is not in grpahics but in the end game, what SW:TOR has to offer than other MMOs on the market can't? It will be same dungeon grind and PVP system, unless BioWare has done some miracle that we haven't heard about. Players (exept Star Wars lovers) will get bored really quick and scatter to the old MMOs or as soon as some new MMO hits.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="Haarhus"]

It has 1 million pre-orders because of the name "Star Wars" which is developed by a good company BioWare. When people will start playing, most of them (apart from blinded fanboys) will realize how poor in general and unoriginal game mechanics are. I am not saying that SW:TOR is total crap, but for MMO veterans it brings nothing special at all, as they call it another "WoW-Clone". In 1~4 month(s) after release, this game most likely will start losing massive amounts of subscribers.

Maroxad

Umm what? There are plenty of sci fi mmos out there

1. Anarchy onine
2. EvE Online
3. Planetside
4. Fallen Earth
5. Global Agenda
6. A whole lot of F2P mmos

Also, fantasy does not necessarily mean elves and goblins.

SWTOR has functional but mediocre gameplay, extremely linear considering its genre, lacks innovation, lackluster crafting system, and its most advertised feature, the story is simply put horrible, in fact. I feel it may detract more than add if the rest of the stories are like this.

Unremarkable would be a good way to describe the game.

Maroxad

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

SWTOR has functional but mediocre gameplay, extremely linear considering its genre, lacks innovation, lackluster crafting system, and its most advertised feature, the story is simply put horrible, in fact. I feel it may detract more than add if the rest of the stories are like this.

Unremarkable would be a good way to describe the game.

FelipeInside

I was expecting the story to to be tolerable, the story especially all the crap I heard about the JK story is downright cringeworthy. I dont mind a simplistic or non-existant story, however SWTOR's is just bad, and I mean bad.

Good Story>No/Simplistic Story (most mmos)>Bad Story (SWTOR)

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] Also remember its the only scifi mmo out there, another advantage. People are sick of elves and goblins.FelipeInside

Umm what? There are plenty of sci fi mmos out there

1. Anarchy onine
2. EvE Online
3. Planetside
4. Fallen Earth
5. Global Agenda
6. A whole lot of F2P mmos

Also, fantasy does not necessarily mean elves and goblins.

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

SWTOR has functional but mediocre gameplay, extremely linear considering its genre, lacks innovation, lackluster crafting system, and its most advertised feature, the story is simply put horrible, in fact. I feel it may detract more than add if the rest of the stories are like this.

Unremarkable would be a good way to describe the game.

FelipeInside

KOTOR I had an awesome story, KOTOR II had a great story, a sith trying to destroy the universe, errr, i mean galaxy is simply silly.

SW isn't about "sense", I don't get what people expect from its story, it looks great AKA SW enough to be SW, what people should talk about more is the terrible quality of what that video contains, nothing, absolutely nothing that you see is decent, everything is terrible, sound is the only good thing I can say about that video.

When you don't have cheese, SW will treat you with plenty, there's nothing more corny and cheesy than the Star Wars universe, complaints that it's like that are silly.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="Maroxad"]

Umm what? There are plenty of sci fi mmos out there

1. Anarchy onine
2. EvE Online
3. Planetside
4. Fallen Earth
5. Global Agenda
6. A whole lot of F2P mmos

Also, fantasy does not necessarily mean elves and goblins.

GeneralShowzer

Sadly I didn't get to play Anarchy. I'm happy it is good, I'm just going off hype and general reviews. If a person felt like playing a SciFi MMO TODAY, their best choice (from the reviews etc) would be ToR.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="Maroxad"]

SWTOR has functional but mediocre gameplay, extremely linear considering its genre, lacks innovation, lackluster crafting system, and its most advertised feature, the story is simply put horrible, in fact. I feel it may detract more than add if the rest of the stories are like this.

Unremarkable would be a good way to describe the game.

Maroxad

I was expecting the story to to be tolerable, the story especially all the crap I heard about the JK story is downright cringeworthy. I dont mind a simplistic or non-existant story, however SWTOR's is just bad, and I mean bad.

Good Story>No/Simplistic Story (most mmos)>Bad Story (SWTOR)

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="Maroxad"]

SWTOR has functional but mediocre gameplay, extremely linear considering its genre, lacks innovation, lackluster crafting system, and its most advertised feature, the story is simply put horrible, in fact. I feel it may detract more than add if the rest of the stories are like this.

Unremarkable would be a good way to describe the game.

Maroxad

I was expecting the story to to be tolerable, the story especially all the crap I heard about the JK story is downright cringeworthy. I dont mind a simplistic or non-existant story, however SWTOR's is just bad, and I mean bad.

Good Story>No/Simplistic Story (most mmos)>Bad Story (SWTOR)

[QUOTE="GummiRaccoon"]

Please explain why this makes one faction pointless to play.

lordreaven

deep breaths, man, deep breaths. It is just a game. If you want "lore", go read a book/watch a movie

I'm not sure what all the hullabaloo is about. I mean, C'mon, this is a Bioware game after all - was anyone really expecting a good or an original story? It always amuses me when I read about Bioware's supposed prowess in the art of storytelling. Seriously, there's more plot and character development in One Fish Two Fish Red Fish Blue Fish than there is in your typical Bioware game.

It also doesn't help that they've been recycling the same basic storylines and character archetypes since BG.

I'm not sure what all the hullabaloo is about. I mean, C'mon, this is a Bioware game after all - was anyone really expecting a good or an original story? It always amuses me when I read about Bioware's supposed prowess in the art of storytelling. Seriously, there's more plot and character development in One Fish Two Fish Red Fish Blue Fish than there is in your typical Bioware game.

It also doesn't help that they've been recycling the same basic storylines and character archetypes since BG.

-wildflower-

[QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

I'm not sure what all the hullabaloo is about. I mean, C'mon, this is a Bioware game after all - was anyone really expecting a good or an original story? It always amuses me when I read about Bioware's supposed prowess in the art of storytelling. Seriously, there's more plot and character development in One Fish Two Fish Red Fish Blue Fish than there is in your typical Bioware game.

It also doesn't help that they've been recycling the same basic storylines and character archetypes since BG.

Advid-Gamer

Don't you know BioWare is the new Activision, let's hate on them cause either:

1- they bring us awesome games but then they mess up only ONE (which wasn't that bad either)

or

2- they are popular and bring out popular games.

BioWare might not be Shakespeare, but they are the BEST at story telling. Not always story, but story telling.

Don't you know BioWare is the new Activision, let's hate on them cause either:

1- they bring us awesome games but then they mess up only ONE (which wasn't that bad either)

or

2- they are popular and bring out popular games.

BioWare might not be Shakespeare, but they are the BEST at story telling. Not always story, but story telling.

FelipeInside

All joking aside, Dragon Age 2 wasn't even a bad game. It was just a complete and absolute change from the original dragon age formula is all, and no one was really expecting that. It's easy to hate and not have any real evidence as to why something is bad. I was never a big Bioware fan, but saying there's no plot or character development and that it's simplistic as a Dr. Suess book is obviously a blatant troll attempt. But hey, whatever keeps your post count high, right?

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"]

[QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

I'm not sure what all the hullabaloo is about. I mean, C'mon, this is a Bioware game after all - was anyone really expecting a good or an original story? It always amuses me when I read about Bioware's supposed prowess in the art of storytelling. Seriously, there's more plot and character development in One Fish Two Fish Red Fish Blue Fish than there is in your typical Bioware game.

It also doesn't help that they've been recycling the same basic storylines and character archetypes since BG.

FelipeInside

Don't you know BioWare is the new Activision, let's hate on them cause either:

1- they bring us awesome games but then they mess up only ONE (which wasn't that bad either)

or

2- they are popular and bring out popular games.

BioWare might not be Shakespeare, but they are the BEST at story telling. Not always story, but story telling.

C'mon, spare me the petty "hate" nonsense.

I'm pretty sure we've had this discussion before and my opinion of Bioware hasn't changed because of DA:2 or ME:2 (although they are two of the worst games I've played in recent memory). My dislike for Bioware actually began with the terribly average KotoR and only spiraled downward from there (NWN and DA:O were both okay but the stories and storytelling were still cringe worthy).

For me Bioware has become the Bud Lite of RPGs (it's just as much of a stretch calling their games RPGs as it is calling Bud Lite beer).

But, believe it or not, I actually liked Bioware at one time. They were never my favorite developer but I liked them. BG1 & BG2 are good games (although I suspect, given Bioware's track record, that the quality of the BG series had a lot to do with Black Isle helping out) but ever since Bioware became focused on pandering to the least common denominator (*cough* consoles *cough*), the depth of their games has suffered. Bioware games have become linear corridor shooters that are interrupted every few minutes by needlessly long exposition.

It's funny (ironic?) but at one time Bioware knocked JRPGs but, oddly enough, JRPGs are exactly the type of games they're making now. Oh, and for the record, I HATE Jrpgs. I'd rather give myself a vasectomy than suffer through a Final Fantasy game.

P.S. Christopher Marlowe was a better dramatist than Shakespeare. :shock:

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"] Really? Now because of DA2 bioware is trash? Sure buddy......... and I dont care what bs you come up with ME2 was a great game, so the only thing you have on them is da2, in no way does that make them trash.

-wildflower-

Don't you know BioWare is the new Activision, let's hate on them cause either:

1- they bring us awesome games but then they mess up only ONE (which wasn't that bad either)

or

2- they are popular and bring out popular games.

BioWare might not be Shakespeare, but they are the BEST at story telling. Not always story, but story telling.

C'mon, spare me the petty "hate" nonsense.

I'm pretty sure we've had this discussion before and my opinion of Bioware hasn't changed because of DA:2 or ME:2 (although they are two of the worst games I've played in recent memory). My dislike for Bioware actually began with the terribly average KotoR and only spiraled downward from there (NWN and DA:O were both okay but the stories and storytelling were still cringe worthy).

For me Bioware has become the Bud Lite of RPGs (it's just as much of a stretch calling their games RPGs as it is calling Bud Lite beer).

But, believe it or not, I actually liked Bioware at one time. They were never my favorite developer but I liked them. BG1 & BG2 are good games (although I suspect, given Bioware's track record, that the quality of the BG series had a lot to do with Black Isle helping out) but ever since Bioware became focused on pandering to the least common denominator (*cough* consoles *cough*), the depth of their games has suffered. Bioware games have become linear corridor shooters that are interrupted every few minutes by needlessly long exposition.

It's funny (ironic?) but at one time Bioware knocked JRPGs but, oddly enough, JRPGs are exactly the type of games they're making now. Oh, and for the record, I HATE Jrpgs. I'd rather give myself a vasectomy than suffer through a Final Fantasy game.

P.S. Christopher Marlowe was a better dramatist than Shakespeare. :shock:

I like budlight, drinking one as we speak. :P To each there own, I love the ME series, great games, I also really enjoyed the SWTOR beta, there are lots of popular games I hate so, to each there own. Everyone has differnt tastes.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"] Really? Now because of DA2 bioware is trash? Sure buddy......... and I dont care what bs you come up with ME2 was a great game, so the only thing you have on them is da2, in no way does that make them trash.

-wildflower-

Don't you know BioWare is the new Activision, let's hate on them cause either:

1- they bring us awesome games but then they mess up only ONE (which wasn't that bad either)

or

2- they are popular and bring out popular games.

BioWare might not be Shakespeare, but they are the BEST at story telling. Not always story, but story telling.

C'mon, spare me the petty "hate" nonsense.

I'm pretty sure we've had this discussion before and my opinion of Bioware hasn't changed because of DA:2 or ME:2 (although they are two of the worst games I've played in recent memory). My dislike for Bioware actually began with the terribly average KotoR and only spiraled downward from there (NWN and DA:O were both okay but the stories and storytelling were still cringe worthy).

For me Bioware has become the Bud Lite of RPGs (it's just as much of a stretch calling their games RPGs as it is calling Bud Lite beer).

But, believe it or not, I actually liked Bioware at one time. They were never my favorite developer but I liked them. BG1 & BG2 are good games (although I suspect, given Bioware's track record, that the quality of the BG series had a lot to do with Black Isle helping out) but ever since Bioware became focused on pandering to the least common denominator (*cough* consoles *cough*), the depth of their games has suffered. Bioware games have become linear corridor shooters that are interrupted every few minutes by needlessly long exposition.

It's funny (ironic?) but at one time Bioware knocked JRPGs but, oddly enough, JRPGs are exactly the type of games they're making now. Oh, and for the record, I HATE Jrpgs. I'd rather give myself a vasectomy than suffer through a Final Fantasy game.

P.S. Christopher Marlowe was a better dramatist than Shakespeare. :shock:

Looks to me u like BG so therefore every RPG has to be like it? Dragon Age 1 was similar if u want a more "hardcore" RPG. Nothing wrong with a lite RPG, I'll rather have a simple RPG with good story and fun than a hardcore one where u forget the main story half the time.FelipeInside

Dear god, no. I wouldn't want every RPG to be like BG. I liked the game but it's nowhere near my favorite. I'd take Arcanum, Fallout 1 & 2, Wizardry, Ultima, etc. over BG every time.

I don't mind a "lite" RPG every now and then. Hell, I'm enjoying Skyrim more than I ever thought I would (still wouldn't call it a RPG though) but my real question is: why can't we have both? That's my BIG issue. Why is it that nearly every so-called RPG released these days is basically an action game with some very minimal RPG elements?

Would it be so difficult for developers to create both types of games? They could still make their big budget, opulent, Michael Bay blockbusters while at the same time funding smaller, art-house, passion project type games? The film industry does it. The music industry, to a certain extent, does it, too. Why can't the game industry? Yes, the indie scene is picking up some of the slack but the big developers could and should do more to help things along, just like they do in the other entertainment industries.

It is possible and they used to do it but, for whatever reason, every game released these days seems to have to sell 10 billion copies to be considered successful. Isn't simply turning a profit enough anymore?

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]Looks to me u like BG so therefore every RPG has to be like it? Dragon Age 1 was similar if u want a more "hardcore" RPG. Nothing wrong with a lite RPG, I'll rather have a simple RPG with good story and fun than a hardcore one where u forget the main story half the time.-wildflower-

Dear god, no. I wouldn't want every RPG to be like BG. I liked the game but it's nowhere near my favorite. I'd take Arcanum, Fallout 1 & 2, Wizardry, Ultima, etc. over BG every time.

I don't mind a "lite" RPG every now and then. Hell, I'm enjoying Skyrim more than I ever thought I would (still wouldn't call it a RPG though) but my real question is: why can't we have both? That's my BIG issue. Why is it that nearly every so-called RPG released these days is basically an action game with some very minimal RPG elements?

Would it be so difficult for developers to create both types of games? They could still make their big budget, opulent, Michael Bay blockbusters while at the same time funding smaller, art-house, passion project type games? The film industry does it. The music industry, to a certain extent, does it, too. Why can't the game industry? Yes, the indie scene is picking up some of the slack but the big developers could and should do more to help things along, just like they do in the other entertainment industries.

It is possible and they used to do it but, for whatever reason, every game released these days seems to have to sell 10 billion copies to be considered successful. Isn't simply turning a profit enough anymore?

I think if a game doesn't tick all the boxes with u then it's not an RPG. How can Skyrim NOT be an RPG??? It's nearly open world sandbox where there are thousands of quests and different paths to take, not to mention spells, leveling, crafting etc etc.

There it is right there, you like "hardcore" RPGs. If a game like Mass Effect comes along and someone says it's RPG, you get offended because it doesn't have all the numbers ur used to with older games.

We can have both. There are "lite" RPGs out there and there are also more "hardcore" RPGs out there.

That's what BioWare did and look at the response they got. (DA:0 and DA2)

Profit yes, but RPGs take A LOT OF WORK... and so the profit needs to be BIG.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]Looks to me u like BG so therefore every RPG has to be like it? Dragon Age 1 was similar if u want a more "hardcore" RPG. Nothing wrong with a lite RPG, I'll rather have a simple RPG with good story and fun than a hardcore one where u forget the main story half the time.-wildflower-

Dear god, no. I wouldn't want every RPG to be like BG. I liked the game but it's nowhere near my favorite. I'd take Arcanum, Fallout 1 & 2, Wizardry, Ultima, etc. over BG every time.

I don't mind a "lite" RPG every now and then. Hell, I'm enjoying Skyrim more than I ever thought I would (still wouldn't call it a RPG though) but my real question is: why can't we have both? That's my BIG issue. Why is it that nearly every so-called RPG released these days is basically an action game with some very minimal RPG elements?

Would it be so difficult for developers to create both types of games? They could still make their big budget, opulent, Michael Bay blockbusters while at the same time funding smaller, art-house, passion project type games? The film industry does it. The music industry, to a certain extent, does it, too. Why can't the game industry? Yes, the indie scene is picking up some of the slack but the big developers could and should do more to help things along, just like they do in the other entertainment industries.

It is possible and they used to do it but, for whatever reason, every game released these days seems to have to sell 10 billion copies to be considered successful. Isn't simply turning a profit enough anymore?

All I get out of all your posts here are blah blah, b!tch to b!tch blah!

[QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]Looks to me u like BG so therefore every RPG has to be like it? Dragon Age 1 was similar if u want a more "hardcore" RPG. Nothing wrong with a lite RPG, I'll rather have a simple RPG with good story and fun than a hardcore one where u forget the main story half the time.FadeToBlack90

Dear god, no. I wouldn't want every RPG to be like BG. I liked the game but it's nowhere near my favorite. I'd take Arcanum, Fallout 1 & 2, Wizardry, Ultima, etc. over BG every time.

I don't mind a "lite" RPG every now and then. Hell, I'm enjoying Skyrim more than I ever thought I would (still wouldn't call it a RPG though) but my real question is: why can't we have both? That's my BIG issue. Why is it that nearly every so-called RPG released these days is basically an action game with some very minimal RPG elements?

Would it be so difficult for developers to create both types of games? They could still make their big budget, opulent, Michael Bay blockbusters while at the same time funding smaller, art-house, passion project type games? The film industry does it. The music industry, to a certain extent, does it, too. Why can't the game industry? Yes, the indie scene is picking up some of the slack but the big developers could and should do more to help things along, just like they do in the other entertainment industries.

It is possible and they used to do it but, for whatever reason, every game released these days seems to have to sell 10 billion copies to be considered successful. Isn't simply turning a profit enough anymore?

All I get out of all your posts here are blah blah, b!tch to b!tch blah!

Way to go making playing one faction COMPLETELY pointless.

(DON'T CLICK IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SPOIL JEDI KNIGHT STORY LINE!!!!!!!!) Linky:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpnJeYVvhps

I'm sorry, but wtf was Bioware thinking?! I was actually enjoying the story lines, but this is just ******* stupid.

NOTE:I did not make it a clickable link so you cannot "Accidently" spoil it yourself

lordreaven

I'm not sure what all the hullabaloo is about. I mean, C'mon, this is a Bioware game after all - was anyone really expecting a good or an original story? It always amuses me when I read about Bioware's supposed prowess in the art of storytelling. Seriously, there's more plot and character development in One Fish Two Fish Red Fish Blue Fish than there is in your typical Bioware game.

It also doesn't help that they've been recycling the same basic storylines and character archetypes since BG.

-wildflower-

I thought the original KOTOR had a great story arch. Sure it wasn't some masterpiece that should be made into a book/movie, but its one of the better story-driven games.

Would it be so difficult for developers to create both types of games? They could still make their big budget, opulent, Michael Bay blockbusters while at the same time funding smaller, art-house, passion project type games? The film industry does it. The music industry, to a certain extent, does it, too. Why can't the game industry?

-wildflower-

Capitalism and Supply vs. Demand. In the gaming industry it's more profitable to get your limited amount of coders programming two mainstream oriented "blockbusters" rather than one blockbuster and one passion project. Or have all of them focused one your one big flagship game. There obviously isn't a big enough market to make the niche games you miss or else developers wouldn't have abandoned that genre.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="Maroxad"]

SWTOR has functional but mediocre gameplay, extremely linear considering its genre, lacks innovation, lackluster crafting system, and its most advertised feature, the story is simply put horrible, in fact. I feel it may detract more than add if the rest of the stories are like this.

Unremarkable would be a good way to describe the game.

Maroxad

I was expecting the story to to be tolerable, the story especially all the crap I heard about the JK story is downright cringeworthy. I dont mind a simplistic or non-existant story, however SWTOR's is just bad, and I mean bad.

Good Story>No/Simplistic Story (most mmos)>Bad Story (SWTOR)

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]Looks to me u like BG so therefore every RPG has to be like it? Dragon Age 1 was similar if u want a more "hardcore" RPG. Nothing wrong with a lite RPG, I'll rather have a simple RPG with good story and fun than a hardcore one where u forget the main story half the time.-wildflower-

Dear god, no. I wouldn't want every RPG to be like BG. I liked the game but it's nowhere near my favorite. I'd take Arcanum, Fallout 1 & 2, Wizardry, Ultima, etc. over BG every time.

I don't mind a "lite" RPG every now and then. Hell, I'm enjoying Skyrim more than I ever thought I would (still wouldn't call it a RPG though) but my real question is: why can't we have both? That's my BIG issue. Why is it that nearly every so-called RPG released these days is basically an action game with some very minimal RPG elements?

Would it be so difficult for developers to create both types of games? They could still make their big budget, opulent, Michael Bay blockbusters while at the same time funding smaller, art-house, passion project type games? The film industry does it. The music industry, to a certain extent, does it, too. Why can't the game industry? Yes, the indie scene is picking up some of the slack but the big developers could and should do more to help things along, just like they do in the other entertainment industries.

It is possible and they used to do it but, for whatever reason, every game released these days seems to have to sell 10 billion copies to be considered successful. Isn't simply turning a profit enough anymore?

[QUOTE="FadeToBlack90"]

[QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

Dear god, no. I wouldn't want every RPG to be like BG. I liked the game but it's nowhere near my favorite. I'd take Arcanum, Fallout 1 & 2, Wizardry, Ultima, etc. over BG every time.

I don't mind a "lite" RPG every now and then. Hell, I'm enjoying Skyrim more than I ever thought I would (still wouldn't call it a RPG though) but my real question is: why can't we have both? That's my BIG issue. Why is it that nearly every so-called RPG released these days is basically an action game with some very minimal RPG elements?

Would it be so difficult for developers to create both types of games? They could still make their big budget, opulent, Michael Bay blockbusters while at the same time funding smaller, art-house, passion project type games? The film industry does it. The music industry, to a certain extent, does it, too. Why can't the game industry? Yes, the indie scene is picking up some of the slack but the big developers could and should do more to help things along, just like they do in the other entertainment industries.

It is possible and they used to do it but, for whatever reason, every game released these days seems to have to sell 10 billion copies to be considered successful. Isn't simply turning a profit enough anymore?

wis3boi

All I get out of all your posts here are blah blah, b!tch to b!tch blah!

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] I still don't get why u say it's horrible. Are u expecting Shakespeare? It's fine for the genre and mmo scene. It's not like the movies had awesome story. It's more about characters, locations, lore etc.ZombiezLovePie

I was expecting the story to to be tolerable, the story especially all the crap I heard about the JK story is downright cringeworthy. I dont mind a simplistic or non-existant story, however SWTOR's is just bad, and I mean bad.

Good Story>No/Simplistic Story (most mmos)>Bad Story (SWTOR)

I agree, it would be pretty boring if we all had the same opinion.

Imperial Agent has a good story from what I have heard and seen myself, and so too does the Sith Inquisitor, but others like the JK are downright absurd, even cheesy for Star Wars standards.

Oh and no or simplistic story is better. There is a reason games on this very site are penalized for weak stories (look at Killzone 3) while games that ignore the story arent penalized when it comes to story.

Still, it is nice that some enjoy the story in SWTOR.

I think we are forgetting one very important thing here..

The DC and the emperor can´t die, you see,

because..

There is no death, There is only the force!

[QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

I'm not sure what all the hullabaloo is about. I mean, C'mon, this is a Bioware game after all - was anyone really expecting a good or an original story? It always amuses me when I read about Bioware's supposed prowess in the art of storytelling. Seriously, there's more plot and character development in One Fish Two Fish Red Fish Blue Fish than there is in your typical Bioware game.

It also doesn't help that they've been recycling the same basic storylines and character archetypes since BG.

Advid-Gamer

When it comes to "RPG"s,

Good Bioware games: Baldur's Gate 1, Baldur's Gate 2, NWN: Hordes of the Underdark
So-So Bioware games: KOTOR 1, Throne of Bhaal
Bad Bioware games: Mass Effect, NWN, NWN Shadows of Undertide
Terrible Bioware games: Dragon Age Origins, Mass Effect 2
Havent played: DA2, Jade Empire

Bioware is trash because not just of DA2, but because of all their games since Mass Effect. And when it comes to the BG series, I wonder really how much of their success was reliant on the D&D license and Black Isle.

I think we are forgetting one very important thing here..

The DC and the emperor can´t die, you see,

because..

There is no death, There is only the force!

grisibur

I think we are forgetting one very important thing here..

The DC and the emperor can´t die, you see,

because..

There is no death, There is only the force!

grisibur

You speak the truth.

[spoiler] the emperor doesnt die from this. However one of his host bodies dies. Not long after, The Jedi Consular kills or traps his son's body to prevent him from returning. Soon after that the Sith Warrior gets an email that the republic attacked his son and is ordered to exact revenge on the republic. So yes, the emperor is still alive. [/spoiler]

My opinion? Yeah... the story is a mess.

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"]

[QUOTE="-wildflower-"]

I'm not sure what all the hullabaloo is about. I mean, C'mon, this is a Bioware game after all - was anyone really expecting a good or an original story? It always amuses me when I read about Bioware's supposed prowess in the art of storytelling. Seriously, there's more plot and character development in One Fish Two Fish Red Fish Blue Fish than there is in your typical Bioware game.

It also doesn't help that they've been recycling the same basic storylines and character archetypes since BG.

Maroxad

When it comes to "RPG"s,

Good Bioware games: Baldur's Gate 1, Baldur's Gate 2, NWN: Hordes of the Underdark
So-So Bioware games: KOTOR 1, Throne of Bhaal
Bad Bioware games: Mass Effect, NWN, NWN Shadows of Undertide
Terrible Bioware games: Dragon Age Origins, Mass Effect 2
Havent played: DA2, Jade Empire

Bioware is trash because not just of DA2, but because of all their games since Mass Effect. And when it comes to the BG series, I wonder really how much of their success was reliant on the D&D license and Black Isle.

Ur whole post lost all credibibility and respect when you called KOTOR and Throne of Bhaal so-so games and Mass Effect Bad...

My opinion? Yeah... the story is a mess.

Maroxad

Why so much emphasis on the story? It's not THAT bad.... it's NOT a mess. Did the movies have story worthy of the best Story Award in History? The story in ToR is classic Star Wars....what did u expect, an Oscar Winning Drama?

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

My opinion? Yeah... the story is a mess.

FelipeInside

Why so much emphasis on the story? It's not THAT bad.... it's NOT a mess. Did the movies have story worthy of the best Story Award in History? The story in ToR is classic Star Wars....what did u expect, an Oscar Winning Drama?

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

My opinion? Yeah... the story is a mess.

DanielDust

Why so much emphasis on the story? It's not THAT bad.... it's NOT a mess. Did the movies have story worthy of the best Story Award in History? The story in ToR is classic Star Wars....what did u expect, an Oscar Winning Drama?

SW is exactly like Warhammer, the entire universe is so outrageous and awesome, twisted and all, but actually listening to what they say or do, is...laughable, literally.

As you said, the characters, attitude, beliefs and such, that's what makes SW interesting, the force, Vader, Maul, Obi Wan, Qui Gon, Luke, Chewie and so many other characters, etc, that's what makes Star Wars, it's all about attitudes and powerful individuals, from what I see, apparently everyone confused it with Star Trek, that's where the story reigns, not individuals, much more mature, serious and complex.

[QUOTE="QQabitmoar"]

wow, that looked TERRIBAD. I guess SWTOR is a failure even amongst other theme-park MMOs.

FelipeInside

But seriously, SW was never about story....FelipeInside

Why so much emphasis on the story? It's not THAT bad.... it's NOT a mess. Did the movies have story worthy of the best Story Award in History? The story in ToR is classic Star Wars....what did u expect, an Oscar Winning Drama?

FelipeInside

I don't know the plot in TOR, but class StarWars has been on the out for ages.

It's become a weird Zeitgeist as it became a cultural phenomenon, I doubt it'll be classic Star Wars in a sense of what the originals were supposed to evoke.