RAGE - More Bull from a Dev...???

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"][QUOTE="Mazoch"]

I think people are misreading parts of the interview and the point being made.

Yeah the rage launch was a disaster on the PC. Carmack points to the AMD driver issue but that's obviously not the only problem. However the rest of his point is not an explanation or justification for those issues.

Rage was a game that was first and foremost developed as a proof of concept for ID Tech 5. As such, to be truly successful it had to achieve several things:

1) It HAD to do well on both consoles. If it failed to do that it would be dead and gone as a potential 3rd part engine other companies would want to license

2) It had to look good. It only partially meets that requirement. there' some really weird, incredibly low res textures seen through the game.

He is correct though, if you're developing technology with the aim of having it work well on all platforms you HAVE to worry about the smaller and weaker platforms first. ID (and by extension Carmack) failed in their launch of Rage and right now I'd guess that the future of ID Tech 5 is uncertain to say the least. But everything he says about platform cross development makes sense and are hardly cause for screaming betrayal.

Mazoch

What makes you say that ID / Carmack / Bethesda dosent like licensing out their engines? That's a HUGE part of what made ID what they are today. I'm not saying that you are incorrect, I've just never heard any hint of that before.

Also, Machinima's history of id goes into how Carmack would only spend a day with other devs explaining how to do stuff/how it works, couldn't be bothered to actually support it even in early id.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YreEwtV7D0

I respected this guy thanks to all the great games he did in the past. Heck, if it wasn't because of the PC he wouldn't be famous in the gaming world.

Now, instead of giving some love to the PC he turns its back on focuses on consoles. Quite disappointing. Sure, it can be understandable that you get more money from consoles and how developers can rip off consumers thanks to DLC but that doesn't mean forgetting the PC.

I'm glad I didn't waste $60 on this game. Gonna wait for a Steam Sale for get it.

Opps got ninja'd.

As for what Carmack said, well the guy becomes less and less relevant every day. I can't say I am all that impressed by what i have seen of RAGE I mean christ the quality of the textures are lower quality than you would find in an Xbox, PS2 game. I am actually quite pleased that Carmack isn't licensing the engine behind RAGE because to be honest I don't want to see another game with horrendously IQ like RAGE ever again.

Once again developing to the lowest common denominator. It doesn't take guts to just go after the money, just a desire for said money. Also whos fault is it for elevating these people to such grand heights as gaming god? Only those that did to blame.

Carmack is a common sense moron. Genius at what he does/did but void of intellect when dealing with people. Just sayin'.

what exactly is so wrong about PC version of RAGE ? Is it just that texture issue ? or mores_emi_xxxxx

I want to get this game I am in two minds,Dont know if you have seen the link below apologise if already posted.

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/rage-pc-new-amd-and-nvidia-drivers-coming-these-days/

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

I'll let u guys decide...but I'm sick of excuses...

GummiRaccoon

I dunno, some of that directly contradicts what he said at the keynote speech. For instance, their plan to use PC as the lead platform for future titles, because making consoles first was a huge mistake.

[QUOTE="GummiRaccoon"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

I'll let u guys decide...but I'm sick of excuses...

Am_Confucius

I dunno, some of that directly contradicts what he said at the keynote speech. For instance, their plan to use PC as the lead platform for future titles, because making consoles first was a huge mistake.

What's not nice about it, John Carmack himself in his june quakecon keynote speech that for their next title (doom4?) they were going to design the game for the PC first and scale it back for consoles, because doing it the way they did with rage was a huge mistake.

As we can all see from this ongoing debacle.

He sux. Or has lost all his talent, or somebody else made Quake 3, because... please, that is a master piece Rage is like a joke.

He's full of crap too.

Just include an options menu with everything confiugrable IT DOESNT HAVE TO LOOK GOOD U GORMLESS TOSSA

Hmm, I can see why most devs left for console gaming, pc gamers are just perfectionist by heart and hard to please.

Bikouchu35

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="Morrinator"]

From a business point of view his comments make perfect sense. If you were in his shoes you would do the exact same thing. It is all about money people... Carmack doesn't owe anyone anything.

Here is what it comes down to:

- if PC gamers boycott (lol) ID games in the future they will still make exceptional money off selling their games on consoles.

- now turn the situation on it's head... they can not survive with only the PC market on their side if the consoles boycotted their products.

If you want to blame anything, how about the absurd pricess for gaming hardware? I mean does NVIDIA and AMD really need to come out with a new card every 4 months.

In my opinion, NVIDIA and AMD with their lack of patch support and price gouging is what has contribute large to the demise of PC gaming with a lot of old school PC gamers switching to console because they get tired of spending 2 days getting a game to run out of the box.

Morrinator

Read son... for God sakes read. I was giving my opinion on why consoles have seemed to grab the attention of developers over the PC community.

Read... think... then post. In that order.

U might have, but u word it the wrong way for sure...

"both console versions will have larger audiences than the PC version" - John Carmack

Well duh, if it is this buggy, no one on the PC is going to buy it.

Blizzard doesn't have any issue selling PC games.

GummiRaccoon

By the way I have avoided news on this game until I get it for christmas, what exactly are the issues the PC version is having ( thats the version ill be getting, I much prefer FPS games on pc )

Do you think the issues will be fixed by christmas?

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

I'll let u guys decide...but I'm sick of excuses...

GummiRaccoon

I dunno, some of that directly contradicts what he said at the keynote speech. For instance, their plan to use PC as the lead platform for future titles, because making consoles first was a huge mistake.

Because video games journalism is on the whole, utter ****.

[QUOTE="GummiRaccoon"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

I'll let u guys decide...but I'm sick of excuses...

skrat_01

I dunno, some of that directly contradicts what he said at the keynote speech. For instance, their plan to use PC as the lead platform for future titles, because making consoles first was a huge mistake.

Because video games journalism is on the whole, utter ****.

How do you know it's an old quote?

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]

[QUOTE="GummiRaccoon"]

I dunno, some of that directly contradicts what he said at the keynote speech. For instance, their plan to use PC as the lead platform for future titles, because making consoles first was a huge mistake.

topgunmv

Because video games journalism is on the whole, utter ****.

How do you know it's an old quote?

The quote about "developing RAGE for consoles was a big mistake, future titles will put priority on PC hardware" was an old quote from June that's being dredged up in the wake of the Rage release. As far as I know, the quote about PCs not being the lead platform is from last night.HoosTrax

When has Carmack ever been truly relevant? If he broke onto the scene in the late 1990s, he would be far less well known. Only reason he succeeded was because standards for gaming were so low back then.

Granted, I still like the man. No one should ever be trapped by dogmatic commitments to "PC gaming".

He speaks the truth. Console gaming is more relevant because that is where the money is at. When will PC gaming revenues ever eclipse console gaming's revenues? It hasn't, and despite Steam making over a billion in revenue each year, that is still only a fraction of what console games make.

When has Carmack ever been truly relevant? If he broke onto the scene in the late 1990s, he would be far less well known. Only reason he succeeded was because standards for gaming were so low back then.

Granted, I still like the man. No one should ever be trapped by dogmatic commitments to "PC gaming".

He speaks the truth. Console gaming is more relevant because that is where the money is at. When will PC gaming revenues ever eclipse console gaming's revenues? It hasn't, and despite Steam making over a billion in revenue each year, that is still only a fraction of what console games make.

The_Capitalist

Yes, we know that... but it's not the point.

I'm just sick of developers bringing out the "consoles are more relevant" or "PC is not the leading platform" excuses to hide the fact they brought out a broken product.

It's like "Hey, let's release this and if the PC community doesn't like it, we'll bring out the CONSOLES IS MORE RELEVANT speech".

Take for example CDProjekt in contrast to Rage... they brought out Witcher 2 with bugs like the first. Did they go out and say "Hey, we are concentrating more on the XBOX version"? No, they apologized, started fixing the issues and even gave gamers free stuff. PC gamers in reponse praised them even though they had to wait for the fixes.

THAT's what ID should have done with RAGE... instead of lame excuses.

RAGE will still be getting patches and a high-res texture pack(supposedly 150GB+ as opposed to the current 11GB textures we are currently using). A lot of folks misunderstand, a good game engine will be good regardless of what platform its games are developed for, but you know the issue with PC gamers, particularly the graphics bandwagoners that make the real gamers look bad, there not looking to have any meaningful communication. Crysis series - standard tiny repeating textures, 1990's technology. Metro 2033 - standard tiny repeating textures, 1990's technology. The Witcher 2 - standard tiny repeating textures, 1990's technology. RAGE - virtual textures, massive non-repeating continuous texture allowing game designers to add whatever details they want, unrestricted, 2011 technology. Downside of virtual textures: massive storage space is required and for retail release, compressed textures pretty much make it so the studio version is the "true" version while the one we get on day one is far inferior due to being only 11GB versus the 150GB+ textures for the version developer's have at id's studios. If the textures are an issue for you right now, then I suggest checking out the latest patch on Steam(not sure if it fixes it but it does add graphics options), and waiting for the massive texture pack(or fix some may call it) coming soon, it will be the studio version of the textures plus some touch ups.Zubinen

But do those non-repeating textures add anything to the visuals? I get the feeling that they could have kept repeating textures in certain spots without detracting from the visuals at all.

[QUOTE="Zubinen"]RAGE will still be getting patches and a high-res texture pack(supposedly 150GB+ as opposed to the current 11GB textures we are currently using). A lot of folks misunderstand, a good game engine will be good regardless of what platform its games are developed for, but you know the issue with PC gamers, particularly the graphics bandwagoners that make the real gamers look bad, there not looking to have any meaningful communication. Crysis series - standard tiny repeating textures, 1990's technology. Metro 2033 - standard tiny repeating textures, 1990's technology. The Witcher 2 - standard tiny repeating textures, 1990's technology. RAGE - virtual textures, massive non-repeating continuous texture allowing game designers to add whatever details they want, unrestricted, 2011 technology. Downside of virtual textures: massive storage space is required and for retail release, compressed textures pretty much make it so the studio version is the "true" version while the one we get on day one is far inferior due to being only 11GB versus the 150GB+ textures for the version developer's have at id's studios. If the textures are an issue for you right now, then I suggest checking out the latest patch on Steam(not sure if it fixes it but it does add graphics options), and waiting for the massive texture pack(or fix some may call it) coming soon, it will be the studio version of the textures plus some touch ups.The_Capitalist

But do those non-repeating textures add anything to the visuals? I get the feeling that they could have kept repeating textures in certain spots without detracting from the visuals at all.

Maybe I'm playing a different version of Rage than everyone else, but overall the game just looks incredible and runs great. I think most of this "uprage" is just typical pc elitism as the game runs very well for the most part and, once again, looks amazing.

So the fact that the PC market is smaller than the console market means it is ok to release an unfinished bug-ridden streaming pile of broken crap?

Glad I didn't buy this crap, and NO, I didn't pirate it either.

So the fact that the PC market is smaller than the console market means it is ok to release an unfinished bug-ridden streaming pile of broken crap?

Glad I didn't buy this crap, and NO, I didn't pirate it either.

Cobretti1818

Good that you know it's working fine... :roll: AMD really has hurt id's reputation with their dumb shoddy drivers for 3 days.Inconsistancy

As far as I am aware a fair few Nvidia users are having problems with this game too and are currently waiting for Nvidia to issue a new driver update in the hope that it will fix some of the issues. So I guess it is the fault of both Nvidia and AMD and nothing to do with Carmack and Co not actually making damn sure their game works with the current drivers out there. This isn't something you can lay at the GPU Company's door, in my books iD should also share a large proportion of the blame for this mess.

Not to mention the fact that there are no graphical options and a 20 slot save game limit which you can't blame Nvidia or AMD for. THe game just comes across as a sloppy port job that iD really couldn't be bothered with on the PC. Honestly if this is the best iD can do on the PC then they are more than welcome to toddle off and entertain their console audience.

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

[QUOTE="Zubinen"]RAGE will still be getting patches and a high-res texture pack(supposedly 150GB+ as opposed to the current 11GB textures we are currently using). A lot of folks misunderstand, a good game engine will be good regardless of what platform its games are developed for, but you know the issue with PC gamers, particularly the graphics bandwagoners that make the real gamers look bad, there not looking to have any meaningful communication. Crysis series - standard tiny repeating textures, 1990's technology. Metro 2033 - standard tiny repeating textures, 1990's technology. The Witcher 2 - standard tiny repeating textures, 1990's technology. RAGE - virtual textures, massive non-repeating continuous texture allowing game designers to add whatever details they want, unrestricted, 2011 technology. Downside of virtual textures: massive storage space is required and for retail release, compressed textures pretty much make it so the studio version is the "true" version while the one we get on day one is far inferior due to being only 11GB versus the 150GB+ textures for the version developer's have at id's studios. If the textures are an issue for you right now, then I suggest checking out the latest patch on Steam(not sure if it fixes it but it does add graphics options), and waiting for the massive texture pack(or fix some may call it) coming soon, it will be the studio version of the textures plus some touch ups.Endgame_basic

But do those non-repeating textures add anything to the visuals? I get the feeling that they could have kept repeating textures in certain spots without detracting from the visuals at all.

Maybe I'm playing a different version of Rage than everyone else, but overall the game just looks incredible and runs great. I think most of this "uprage" is just typical pc elitism as the game runs very well for the most part and, once again, looks amazing.

Maybe just cause it works good for you doesn't mean it works great for everyone...?

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"]Good that you know it's working fine... :roll: AMD really has hurt id's reputation with their dumb shoddy drivers for 3 days.charmingcharlie

As far as I am aware a fair few Nvidia users are having problems with this game too and are currently waiting for Nvidia to issue a new driver update in the hope that it will fix some of the issues. So I guess it is the fault of both Nvidia and AMD and nothing to do with Carmack and Co not actually making damn sure their game works with the current drivers out there. This isn't something you can lay at the GPU Company's door, in my books iD should also share a large proportion of the blame for this mess.

Not to mention the fact that there are no graphical options and a 20 slot save game limit which you can't blame Nvidia or AMD for. THe game just comes across as a sloppy port job that iD really couldn't be bothered with on the PC. Honestly if this is the best iD can do on the PC then they are more than welcome to toddle off and entertain their console audience.

Rage works very well for me after this last patch. Much better looking but textures are still ass from a close distance

Lots of pc gamer butthurt in here. Carmack isn't saying anything a dozen other previously pc-centric game developers haven't said already. Rage runs fine for me, I'm lucky enough to have a nvidia card and consoles aren't having any problems, it's only AMD. Enough of the drama.

Rage on the PC also works fine for me and I have a Nvidia card. However I find the texture quality very low for a PC game. Is it the exact same quality textures as the console versions or do the console versions have higher quality textures?

Is it the exact same quality textures as the console versions or do the console versions have higher quality textures?

DJP3000

What the hell are you talking about? PC has the higher res textures. Consoles can't go past the 4k by 4k texture resolution, but PC can go to 8k by 8k and even 16k by 16k if you wanted too.

[QUOTE="DJP3000"]

Is it the exact same quality textures as the console versions or do the console versions have higher quality textures?

ChubbyGuy40

What the hell are you talking about? PC has the higher res textures. Consoles can't go past the 4k by 4k texture resolution, but PC can go to 8k by 8k and even 16k by 16k if you wanted too.

[QUOTE="DJP3000"]

Is it the exact same quality textures as the console versions or do the console versions have higher quality textures?

ChubbyGuy40

What the hell are you talking about? PC has the higher res textures. Consoles can't go past the 4k by 4k texture resolution, but PC can go to 8k by 8k and even 16k by 16k if you wanted too.

Rage works very well for me after this last patch. Much better looking but textures are still ass from a close distance

IcyRhythms

That's how much is being cached at max resolution(saving textures out of view so if you turn, it doesn't pop) not in anyway increasing the resolution of the texture, 'cause that's magic. :). The game's the same size, and that means it's the same textures.

Inconsistancy

No, it's increasing the size of the texture displayed, not the amount of textures stored in the video card's memory.

Maybe I'm playing a different version of Rage than everyone else, but overall the game just looks incredible and runs great. I think most of this "uprage" is just typical pc elitism as the game runs very well for the most part and, once again, looks amazing.

Endgame_basic

Look at my pictures on page 2, thats with a custom config that overrides the shoddy auto-detection and forces everything on its highest, looks "amazing" eh?

And what the hell are you on about? Typical PC elitism? Hah, never knew complaining about a game being broken was considered elite.

[QUOTE="Endgame_basic"]

Maybe I'm playing a different version of Rage than everyone else, but overall the game just looks incredible and runs great. I think most of this "uprage" is just typical pc elitism as the game runs very well for the most part and, once again, looks amazing.

koospetoors

Look at my pictures on page 2, thats with a custom config that overrides the shoddy auto-detection and forces everything on its highest, looks "amazing" eh?

And what the hell are you on about? Typical PC elitism? Hah, never knew complaining about a game being broken was considered elite.

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"]

That's how much is being cached at max resolution(saving textures out of view so if you turn, it doesn't pop) not in anyway increasing the resolution of the texture, 'cause that's magic. :). The game's the same size, and that means it's the same textures.

ChubbyGuy40

No, it's increasing the size of the texture displayed, not the amount of textures stored in the video card's memory.

Look foward after looking at object out of view.

Turn camera fast! BAM

Allright, look at that wall again, and then foward!

And, surprise surprise, no poping!

I don't know why I get artifacts in my screenshots, don't get them ingame. Also, these are the new settings id made, that directly relate to the 'cache' settings we had to modify before:

seta vt_pageimagesizeuniquediffuseonly2 "8192"
seta vt_pageimagesizeuniquediffuseonly "8192"
seta vt_pageimagesizeunique "8192"
seta vt_pageimagesizevmtr "8192"

8k is 'large' 4k is 'small'.

It saves the textures on screen as a single texture inside of the memory (well sorta, I suspect it just saves the tiles upto the equivilent of 8k or 4k depending on settings, not actually making it one giant texture), it's dynamically updated, so the texture in memory is always changing, but 4k will only save what's infront of you in high res, and 8k will save a full 360 turn's worth of textures. In no way are the individual textures made higher res.

I don't know why I get artifacts in my screenshots, don't get them ingame.Inconsistancy

For those whose textures look muddy, I downloaded a modded config file posted by a user over at the Steam forums. Choose the config file that matches your system best. Ultra setting config file worked great for me (specs below). I had to edit the anti-aliasing value from 32 to 8 though.

Link here:http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?p=25524360#post25524360

Trust me, RAGE will look gorgeous once you use this modded config file. No texture streaming, no tearing (taken care of by the patch as well) and higher res textures.

At least the game is living up to its name.

At least the game is living up to its name.

Qixote

5 star post

Game runs VERY well now for me, no texture loading AT ALL.

Probally seen? but heres the update info

http://store.steampowered.com/news/6464/

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

[QUOTE="DJP3000"]

What the hell are you talking about? PC has the higher res textures. Consoles can't go past the 4k by 4k texture resolution, but PC can go to 8k by 8k and even 16k by 16k if you wanted too.

Inconsistancy

Rage works very well for me after this last patch. Much better looking but textures are still ass from a close distance

IcyRhythms