what religion do you follow

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]

Christianity.

Specifically I'm a Conservative Southern Baptist Evangelical Christian with a slight leaning towards Calvinism and Emerging philosophy. I'm also a Young-Earth Creationist.

mindstorm

Isn't that where your destination as regards heaven and hell is decided before you're even born? :?

Romans 8:28-30 state, "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."

I basically believe that passage to be true.

When I say I have leanings towards Calvinism I'm basically saying I believe God can do whatever he likes and wants. I'm not a hyper-Calvinist who doesn't do missions because "God has predestined" people to be saved. That's just laziness in the form of theology. We are commanded to reach people with the gospel so I do so.

I'm also neither a "5-point" Calvinist. I simply agree with a little bit more of Calvin's theology than some.

i tend to think that that verse is a bit more metaphorical. i think it refers to Gods all knowing power than he decides whether were going to heaven or hell. i think while God might know, we have complete will to do whatever our hearts please. we choose our destinies

im a christian btw. if you didnt know or couldnt tell

[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]

Christianity.

Specifically I'm a Conservative Southern Baptist Evangelical Christian with a slight leaning towards Calvinism and Emerging philosophy. I'm also a Young-Earth Creationist.

metaldude05

Isn't that where your destination as regards heaven and hell is decided before you're even born? :?

Romans 8:28-30 state, "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."

I basically believe that passage to be true.

When I say I have leanings towards Calvinism I'm basically saying I believe God can do whatever he likes and wants. I'm not a hyper-Calvinist who doesn't do missions because "God has predestined" people to be saved. That's just laziness in the form of theology. We are commanded to reach people with the gospel so I do so.

I'm also neither a "5-point" Calvinist. I simply agree with a little bit more of Calvin's theology than some.

i tend to think that that verse is a bit more metaphorical. i think it refers to Gods all knowing power than he decides whether were going to heaven or hell. i think while God might know, we have complete will to do whatever our hearts please. we choose our destinies

im a christian btw. if you didnt know or couldnt tell

I do not deny our choice in the matter but I do believe their is a destiny God wants us to follow. Whether we follow that destiny or not is our choice.

If you take a look at Paul's life it can easily be said that he believed their was no possibly way he could have sought Christ without the Lord's intervention, without that Damascus road experience. Every person who has come to Christ has had that same Damascus road experience though we may often think our own conversion experience to not be as miraculous. It is, however, just as miraculous as God has sought us directly for us to come to him. We still have a choice to follow him even when that happens.

I typically do not argue this point too much unless the person I'm speaking with believes we are good enough to seek God on our own power (therefore not inherently sinful) or they believe there is no need for missions because God will save whom he wants. I do believe God can save whom he wants but we may be the instrument through by which another is saved. Why pass up that opportunity?

[QUOTE="metaldude05"][QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]

Christianity.

Specifically I'm a Conservative Southern Baptist Evangelical Christian with a slight leaning towards Calvinism and Emerging philosophy. I'm also a Young-Earth Creationist.

mindstorm

Isn't that where your destination as regards heaven and hell is decided before you're even born? :?

Romans 8:28-30 state, "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."

I basically believe that passage to be true.

When I say I have leanings towards Calvinism I'm basically saying I believe God can do whatever he likes and wants. I'm not a hyper-Calvinist who doesn't do missions because "God has predestined" people to be saved. That's just laziness in the form of theology. We are commanded to reach people with the gospel so I do so.

I'm also neither a "5-point" Calvinist. I simply agree with a little bit more of Calvin's theology than some.

i tend to think that that verse is a bit more metaphorical. i think it refers to Gods all knowing power than he decides whether were going to heaven or hell. i think while God might know, we have complete will to do whatever our hearts please. we choose our destinies

im a christian btw. if you didnt know or couldnt tell

I do not deny our choice in the matter but I do believe their is a destiny God wants us to follow. Whether we follow that destiny or not is our choice.

If you take a look at Paul's life it can easily be said that he believed their was no possibly way he could have sought Christ without the Lord's intervention, without that Damascus road experience. Every person who has come to Christ has had that same Damascus road experience though we may often think our own conversion experience to not be as miraculous. It is, however, just as miraculous as God has sought us directly for us to come to him. We still have a choice to follow him even when that happens.

I typically do not argue this point too much unless the person I'm speaking with believes we are good enough to seek God on our own power (therefore not inherently sinful) or they believe there is no need for missions because God will save whom he wants. I do believe God can save whom he wants but we may be the instrument through by which another is saved. Why pass up that opportunity?

i dont believe we can we are saved by our own power. salvation is by grace alone but the way i understan predestination is that God chooses whether we go to heaven or hell. and correct me if im wrong but that seems to take free will out of the equation. im not trying to argue or really debate as from what ive seen you post we see eye to eye mostly, but thats why i want to here your point of view. even if i disagree i like to here different points of view so i have a more informed opinion. and who knows alot of times ive found other people have a certain insight i dont.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]

I do not deny our choice in the matter but I do believe their is a destiny God wants us to follow. Whether we follow that destiny or not is our choice.

If you take a look at Paul's life it can easily be said that he believed their was no possibly way he could have sought Christ without the Lord's intervention, without that Damascus road experience. Every person who has come to Christ has had that same Damascus road experience though we may often think our own conversion experience to not be as miraculous. It is, however, just as miraculous as God has sought us directly for us to come to him. We still have a choice to follow him even when that happens.

I typically do not argue this point too much unless the person I'm speaking with believes we are good enough to seek God on our own power (therefore not inherently sinful) or they believe there is no need for missions because God will save whom he wants. I do believe God can save whom he wants but we may be the instrument through by which another is saved. Why pass up that opportunity?

metaldude05

i dont believe we can we are saved by our own power. salvation is by grace alone but the way i understan predestination is that God chooses whether we go to heaven or hell. and correct me if im wrong but that seems to take free will out of the equation. im not trying to argue or really debate as from what ive seen you post we see eye to eye mostly, but thats why i want to here your point of view. even if i disagree i like to here different points of view so i have a more informed opinion. and who knows alot of times ive found other people have a certain insight i dont.

Well if you look at the concept of free will, where did it come from? The term as we understand it today came from a humanist philosopher in the 1700-1800s. He believed man to be inherently good. (I think that's right anyway)

If you look at the posibility of free will within the Bible there is a hint of it in Jesus offering an invitation to follow him. Prophets throughout the Old Testaments also told Israel to repent though rarely caught onto their warnings.

My concept of free will is like that of a game of chess. Imagine yourself to be just now learning to play chess for the first time. We have a choice in how we play. God, however, is our opponent and is an expert chess player. He cannot loose. We can make decisions on how we play the game but in the end, God is going to win (if he so desires).

Here is an interesting sermon I've listened to several times dealing with Predestination. It's done by Mark Driscoll who has an Augustinian view of Predestination which leans towards Calvinism.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]

i dont believe we can we are saved by our own power. salvation is by grace alone but the way i understan predestination is that God chooses whether we go to heaven or hell. and correct me if im wrong but that seems to take free will out of the equation. im not trying to argue or really debate as from what ive seen you post we see eye to eye mostly, but thats why i want to here your point of view. even if i disagree i like to here different points of view so i have a more informed opinion. and who knows alot of times ive found other people have a certain insight i dont.

metaldude05

Well if you look at the concept of free will, where did it come from? The term as we understand it today came from a humanist philosopher in the 1700-1800s. He believed man to be inherently good. (I think that's right anyway)

If you look at the posibility of free will within the Bible there is a hint of it in Jesus offering an invitation to follow him. Prophets throughout the Old Testaments also told Israel to repent though rarely caught onto their warnings.

My concept of free will is like that of a game of chess. Imagine yourself to be just now learning to play chess for the first time. We have a choice in how we play. God, however, is our opponent and is an expert chess player. He cannot loose. We can make decisions on how we play the game but in the end, God is going to win (if he so desires).

Here is an interesting sermon I've listened to several times dealing with Predestination. It's done by Mark Driscoll who has an Augustinian view of Predestination which leans towards Calvinism.

ill watch that later, ive got to get some sleep, i have to be at church at around 9 and am in georgia where it is 2. i just have a hard time believing that God would choose for us to go to hell. anyway if you have anymore verses on this that would be great. ill visit this tommorrow or maybe in a message if you feel like it. Thanks for the info and goodnight bro

[QUOTE="metaldude05"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]

i dont believe we can we are saved by our own power. salvation is by grace alone but the way i understan predestination is that God chooses whether we go to heaven or hell. and correct me if im wrong but that seems to take free will out of the equation. im not trying to argue or really debate as from what ive seen you post we see eye to eye mostly, but thats why i want to here your point of view. even if i disagree i like to here different points of view so i have a more informed opinion. and who knows alot of times ive found other people have a certain insight i dont.

metaldude05

Well if you look at the concept of free will, where did it come from? The term as we understand it today came from a humanist philosopher in the 1700-1800s. He believed man to be inherently good. (I think that's right anyway)

If you look at the posibility of free will within the Bible there is a hint of it in Jesus offering an invitation to follow him. Prophets throughout the Old Testaments also told Israel to repent though rarely caught onto their warnings.

My concept of free will is like that of a game of chess. Imagine yourself to be just now learning to play chess for the first time. We have a choice in how we play. God, however, is our opponent and is an expert chess player. He cannot loose. We can make decisions on how we play the game but in the end, God is going to win (if he so desires).

Here is an interesting sermon I've listened to several times dealing with Predestination. It's done by Mark Driscoll who has an Augustinian view of Predestination which leans towards Calvinism.

ill watch that later, ive got to get some sleep, i have to be at church at around 9 and am in georgia where it is 2. i just have a hard time believing that God would choose for us to go to hell. anyway if you have anymore verses on this that would be great. ill visit this tommorrow or maybe in a message if you feel like it. Thanks for the info and goodnight bro

I don't believe God chooses anyone to go to hell whatsoever. We choose that ourselves by default. That's what we rightfully deserve.

Exodus 33:19 states, "And the LORD said, "I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."

btw, I understand quite well why anyone would believe otherwise what I say. I'm just arguing my point. :P

The beginning of Ephesians 1 talk a little bit of predestination as well. The majority of the "Calvinist verses" are in Paul's writings.

I've got to go to bed as well... gotta leave for church at 9am and I live just above you in SC.

God Bless! :D

[QUOTE="metaldude05"][QUOTE="metaldude05"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]

i dont believe we can we are saved by our own power. salvation is by grace alone but the way i understan predestination is that God chooses whether we go to heaven or hell. and correct me if im wrong but that seems to take free will out of the equation. im not trying to argue or really debate as from what ive seen you post we see eye to eye mostly, but thats why i want to here your point of view. even if i disagree i like to here different points of view so i have a more informed opinion. and who knows alot of times ive found other people have a certain insight i dont.

mindstorm

Well if you look at the concept of free will, where did it come from? The term as we understand it today came from a humanist philosopher in the 1700-1800s. He believed man to be inherently good. (I think that's right anyway)

If you look at the posibility of free will within the Bible there is a hint of it in Jesus offering an invitation to follow him. Prophets throughout the Old Testaments also told Israel to repent though rarely caught onto their warnings.

My concept of free will is like that of a game of chess. Imagine yourself to be just now learning to play chess for the first time. We have a choice in how we play. God, however, is our opponent and is an expert chess player. He cannot loose. We can make decisions on how we play the game but in the end, God is going to win (if he so desires).

Here is an interesting sermon I've listened to several times dealing with Predestination. It's done by Mark Driscoll who has an Augustinian view of Predestination which leans towards Calvinism.

ill watch that later, ive got to get some sleep, i have to be at church at around 9 and am in georgia where it is 2. i just have a hard time believing that God would choose for us to go to hell. anyway if you have anymore verses on this that would be great. ill visit this tommorrow or maybe in a message if you feel like it. Thanks for the info and goodnight bro

I don't believe God chooses anyone to go to hell whatsoever. We choose that ourselves by default. That's what we rightfully deserve.

Exodus 33:19 states, "And the LORD said, "I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."

btw, I understand quite well why anyone would believe otherwise what I say. I'm just arguing my point. :P

The beginning of Ephesians 1 talk a little bit of predestination as well. The majority of the "Calvinist verses" are in Paul's writings.

I've got to go to bed as well... gotta leave for church at 9am and I live just above you in SC.

God Bless! :D

I don't think God is blind to what you define as "free will". Just because he doesn't affect what choices you make doesn't mean he doesn't already know what choices you are going to make and as well as all the choices you make in the future. A part of being all-knowing means having knowledge of the past, present, as well as future. You don't think God can see everyone's future? You don't think God knows what choices people will make in the future? You don't think he already knows who goes to heaven or hell or not?

[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="metaldude05"][QUOTE="metaldude05"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]

i dont believe we can we are saved by our own power. salvation is by grace alone but the way i understan predestination is that God chooses whether we go to heaven or hell. and correct me if im wrong but that seems to take free will out of the equation. im not trying to argue or really debate as from what ive seen you post we see eye to eye mostly, but thats why i want to here your point of view. even if i disagree i like to here different points of view so i have a more informed opinion. and who knows alot of times ive found other people have a certain insight i dont.

Shad0ki11

Well if you look at the concept of free will, where did it come from? The term as we understand it today came from a humanist philosopher in the 1700-1800s. He believed man to be inherently good. (I think that's right anyway)

If you look at the posibility of free will within the Bible there is a hint of it in Jesus offering an invitation to follow him. Prophets throughout the Old Testaments also told Israel to repent though rarely caught onto their warnings.

My concept of free will is like that of a game of chess. Imagine yourself to be just now learning to play chess for the first time. We have a choice in how we play. God, however, is our opponent and is an expert chess player. He cannot loose. We can make decisions on how we play the game but in the end, God is going to win (if he so desires).

Here is an interesting sermon I've listened to several times dealing with Predestination. It's done by Mark Driscoll who has an Augustinian view of Predestination which leans towards Calvinism.

ill watch that later, ive got to get some sleep, i have to be at church at around 9 and am in georgia where it is 2. i just have a hard time believing that God would choose for us to go to hell. anyway if you have anymore verses on this that would be great. ill visit this tommorrow or maybe in a message if you feel like it. Thanks for the info and goodnight bro

I don't believe God chooses anyone to go to hell whatsoever. We choose that ourselves by default. That's what we rightfully deserve.

Exodus 33:19 states, "And the LORD said, "I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."

btw, I understand quite well why anyone would believe otherwise what I say. I'm just arguing my point. :P

The beginning of Ephesians 1 talk a little bit of predestination as well. The majority of the "Calvinist verses" are in Paul's writings.

I've got to go to bed as well... gotta leave for church at 9am and I live just above you in SC.

God Bless! :D

I don't think God is blind to what you define as "free will". Just because he doesn't affect what choices you make doesn't mean he doesn't already know what choices you are going to make and as well as all the choices you make in the future. A part of being all-knowing means having knowledge of the past, present, as well as future. You don't think God can see everyone's future? You don't think God knows what choices people will make in the future? You don't think he already knows who goes to heaven or hell or not?

Of course I do. I believe God is omniscient and completely sovereign. I was basically arguing that same case if you read all I had written.

[QUOTE="Shad0ki11"][QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="metaldude05"][QUOTE="metaldude05"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]

i dont believe we can we are saved by our own power. salvation is by grace alone but the way i understan predestination is that God chooses whether we go to heaven or hell. and correct me if im wrong but that seems to take free will out of the equation. im not trying to argue or really debate as from what ive seen you post we see eye to eye mostly, but thats why i want to here your point of view. even if i disagree i like to here different points of view so i have a more informed opinion. and who knows alot of times ive found other people have a certain insight i dont.

mindstorm

Well if you look at the concept of free will, where did it come from? The term as we understand it today came from a humanist philosopher in the 1700-1800s. He believed man to be inherently good. (I think that's right anyway)

If you look at the posibility of free will within the Bible there is a hint of it in Jesus offering an invitation to follow him. Prophets throughout the Old Testaments also told Israel to repent though rarely caught onto their warnings.

My concept of free will is like that of a game of chess. Imagine yourself to be just now learning to play chess for the first time. We have a choice in how we play. God, however, is our opponent and is an expert chess player. He cannot loose. We can make decisions on how we play the game but in the end, God is going to win (if he so desires).

Here is an interesting sermon I've listened to several times dealing with Predestination. It's done by Mark Driscoll who has an Augustinian view of Predestination which leans towards Calvinism.

ill watch that later, ive got to get some sleep, i have to be at church at around 9 and am in georgia where it is 2. i just have a hard time believing that God would choose for us to go to hell. anyway if you have anymore verses on this that would be great. ill visit this tommorrow or maybe in a message if you feel like it. Thanks for the info and goodnight bro

I don't believe God chooses anyone to go to hell whatsoever. We choose that ourselves by default. That's what we rightfully deserve.

Exodus 33:19 states, "And the LORD said, "I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."

btw, I understand quite well why anyone would believe otherwise what I say. I'm just arguing my point. :P

The beginning of Ephesians 1 talk a little bit of predestination as well. The majority of the "Calvinist verses" are in Paul's writings.

I've got to go to bed as well... gotta leave for church at 9am and I live just above you in SC.

God Bless! :D

I don't think God is blind to what you define as "free will". Just because he doesn't affect what choices you make doesn't mean he doesn't already know what choices you are going to make and as well as all the choices you make in the future. A part of being all-knowing means having knowledge of the past, present, as well as future. You don't think God can see everyone's future? You don't think God knows what choices people will make in the future? You don't think he already knows who goes to heaven or hell or not?

Of course I do. I believe God is omniscient and completely sovereign. I was basically arguing that same case if you read all I had written.

So it does seem like he is picking and choosing people before they are born. The unborn have no knowledge of anything, just the capacity to learn and gain knowledge after they are born.