Low-Wage Workers Are Effectively Slaves

You're an anomaly.

And they say I'm delusional...

I never said or implied it was easy. Anything that's worth having is going to be hard to get. Again, what I stated was that a low-wage worker is afforded far more opportunities in life that he/she can take advantage of than a slave.

It's never going to be easy and yeah, it does mean pulling up your boot straps, because that's how life is for everyone, or mostly everyone. You'll have your Paris Hiltons and Kim Kardashians but sometimes life is unfair and shit happens even to the best of us. I never said our system is perfect but people in the United States have more opportunities available to them in forms of college, technical schools, military service, and etc.

I don't feel I'm a slave at all, I think we could do without being taxed though.

I never said that the simple increase of wages is the solution. There are many other ways that can give a hand to the working class, like lowering taxes on the poor and those belonging to the middle class and raising them on the super-rich whom taxes can make a serious difference given the scale of their wealth. Better social security and a national healthcare system can make a huge difference in the lives of the vast majority of the population. Spending more on public services and subsidizing education beyond high school can give many of the underprivileged members of society better prospects in life.

These are just to name a few at the top of my head. Still, simple increase of wages shouldn't be dismissed altogether. In fact all of the aforementioned will contribute to the increase of wages of both minimum-wage laborers and those belonging to the middle class, and increase the gross income of small/medium business owners which will consequently employ more people and raise the standards of living for actual people.

So a viable solution for a low-wage laborer is to join the army and fight pointless, imperialistic and colonialist wars that would mess his life up forever to better his living standards? Why not just try and create a job market that is of better conditions and wages? The army can only accommodate so many people after all. You'd be willing to suggest anything, no matter how enviable or absurd it might be, as long as it doesn't actually help people and create a more egalitarian economic order.

There is no beauty in capitalism, at least in the U.S' implementation of the theory. The reality that in the U.S there are a few who own billions while other millions who own little to nothing speaks heaps on the misery that capitalism is bringing on the people. The accumulation of wealth in the hands of a minority is never a good thing, its beyond delusional for one to think that a few people with this much money will do a country any good. The myth that capitalists with their accumulated wealth stimulate the market and that their interests and the interests of the workers are the same or dependent on each other is laughable and ridiculous at best. It only applies for a brief period of time then after saturation begins to hit all markets and professions, and after competition is reduced to oligopoly in the better scenarios and monopoly in the worst of them, people start to get screwed. Everybody is working their asses off and markets are full of countless commodities of great value and utility, yet it seems all people are window-shoppes.

You may disagree of course that much liberty you do have. But I really don't see why so many Americans defend such a status quo. I really don't give two fucks about your GDP and the U.S' share in the world's wealthiest people. At the end of the day, there are many states whom citizens enjoy superior lives compared to those of Americans despite the size of your economy, the scale of your technological advancement, the resources at your disposal and the fact that the U.S is the superpower of the world.

Thread should end here.

I'm very left wing and have no problem with criticism of capitalism and I can see the ridiculousness of the TC's comparison.

@huggybear1020 said:

Pretty much my opinion on people who whine and bitch about not getting paid enough.

Get that stick out of your ass, not everyone is in the same situation as you, just because you on minimum wage job doesn't mean they don't have education or skills, maybe they have no choice. Not everyone is born into a rich family and get money spoon fed to them, the world is not so black and white like you think it is.

While I think the TC's slave comparison is beyond stupid, personal anecdotes (which might or might not be true) are not proof of anything.

Subsidization of education can also dilute a college degree making it utterly worthless, and then there's waste and mismanagement. The reason why college is expensive is because there's a high demand for it now because of the preconceived notion that degree = job which is complete and utter bullshit if you think that's the only path. Unfortunately it is becoming the only path in life and now you have to have a masters to get anywhere. Not only that, colleges are competing against each other like crazy by spending more on amenities to make their college more attractive. They're relying more on their reputation instead of their value.

If anything, I think we should make high school matter more for jobs and careers that shouldn't really require a college degree like journalism. That or subsidize the student. I saw this from "The center for college affordability and productivity website" and it was an interesting read. I've skimmed through and may have missed some parts though. Of course it may be

@ultimate-k said:

@huggybear1020 said:

Pretty much my opinion on people who whine and bitch about not getting paid enough.

Get that stick out of your ass, not everyone is in the same situation as you, just because you on minimum wage job doesn't mean they don't have education or skills, maybe they have no choice. Not everyone is born into a rich family and get money spoon fed to them, the world is not so black and white like you think it is.

I wouldn't expect huggybear of all people to think outside of bumper sticker-like platitudes.

I agree that huggybear's graphic is very silly tho.

How about the countless statistics that show a clear link between years of education and growing income as well as chances that that person will be under employed or unemployed?

Also, personal anecdotes are not completely worthless...especially in a discussion of a person's experience in the workplace and how it relates to being a slave. If the charge is that working bottom level jobs in the US economy is akin to being a slave, personal experience is relevant...since you know...I have worked at that level and I wasn't a slave at any point lol.

And the reality is no one flippin' burgers or working at Walmart are slaves either. Now, there are people, especially in the agricultural industry, that are illegal immigrants and def work in slave like conditions.

If someone wants to talk about slavery in America, that's where they should start.

I'm not even arguing against what leviathan said and I certainly disagree with the notion that lower wage workers are comparable to slaves. I'm just saying that one person's experiences doesn't say much, especially if we don't have a very full picture of said experiences. For all we know, there's a factor in your actual experiences that you're not telling us (not to say that you're lying; just that anecdotal experience as told via the internet is unreliable by its very nature) that would not support the argument you think your personal experience bolsters.

I agree.

I think you are putting too much focus on my comment...more than anything I was agreeing with what leviathan said and adding my own experience in on top of it. His post was more detailed regarding education/programs/etc. If I really wanted to prove the point (in the terms you seems to want to talk about) there's obviously countless studies showing how certain actions exponentially improve one's forward mobility.

The whole "I'm living proof thing" is more just common conversation stuff rather than me trying to actually scientifically prove any of the statements.

Point taken.

To be fair I can see where you are coming from since I said "proofs!" lol...but as I said I wasn't really trying to put that much emphasis on it.

And with that, I think this is the first time a disagreement between us hasn't ended in craziness.

@GreySeal9:

I sort of agree with what you said. Personal stories can be motivating until you know the full story. Personally I was trying to join the Marines with a juvenile record (it was one thing) and despite my hard work and effort, the commanding officer rejected my waiver so it was a major disappointment but it was bound to happen because I was joining at a time when all of the Armed Forces were downsizing in manpower. When I saw a book on Adam Brown, a Navy Seal who had 11 felonies prior to when he joined (the whole story is legitimate, so google it), I was motivated until I realize he knew a commanding officer who vouched for him. That and I believe the standards in the late 90s weren't as high.

But still, I'm sort of motivated enough to know that it's possible despite my disadvantage. This sounds cheesy as hell but we all write our own stories and we can take personal anecdotes to heart to motivate us in times of darkness.

God that sounds cheesy.

lol. I was thinking the same thing.

My mention of education was more of a reference to how education need to improve and be more inclusive.

Don't get me started on universities and how full of BS they've come to be, I just ranted about this a couple of days ago. In fact, here's my rant :P. Its at the end of the post since FuckSpot is glitching on me, making me unable to close the spoiler block and continue my post.

I've skimmed too through your link and the suggestion to reduce 4 years degrees to 3 years is of enormous productive, cost-effective and pragmatic advantages. Its so fucking absurd to waste 4 and in some study programs even 5 years for a BA. By the time you're done with the third year, you kind of stop taking the whole thing seriously as it overstays its welcome and you start to get the impression that your faculty or department is just stalling. In Europe, the Bologna process harmonized higher education across EU member states' academic institutions. As a result, a BA takes only 3 years to finish rather than 4 years.

I didn't have a record, but in my teens i did incredibly stupid things that probably should have resulted in a record. I joined the military and while it kinda sucked, those three years got me back on track. Again, this is personal anecdotes but every single person I knew form high school, every single one that took responsibility for their lives, worked hard, and made smart decisions are now successful adults enjoying great lives.

You know what's common view for my friends who didn't make it? All of them seem to believe that the world is against them, that no matter what they try nothing works, etc etc. Meanwhile none of them actually try, and a lot of them make the same stupid decisions we made when we were teenagers. It may very well be just they have been beat down, I personally believe that's what is holding them back though.

lol

I do know what you're getting at tho. Rags to riches (I use that term loosely) stories are more complicated than people make them out to be, but I do think that there's nothing wrong with taking to heart that sense of possibility that they provide. I only start getting annoyed (and I'm sure you do to) when certain people denigrate the people who are still working low wage jobs based on said stories.

Alright first off, capitalism has been more beneficial than it has been a disadvantage and while it's not perfect, it's the best economic system because when you allow choice and competition, people get creative. There's new technology and innovation, people get wealthier over time, and the list goes on and on. However, if the government stifles competition and allows only a few to succeed then yes you have a major problem and that is the government's fault and perhaps CEOs who were greedy and took advantage of lobbyists and congressmen. Is it fair? No. Is that the status quo I'm defending? No. Is it capitalism's fault? Perhaps. Should we eliminate capitalism and create an egalitarian order? **** NO. Soviet Union, Mao's China are all great examples of what that's dumb.

Second, I said that there are many paths in life a person can take so it can be technical school, college, and/or military service so it doesn't have to be one thing and like I said before shit does happen so your plans could change for the best or worst. Also there are four branches in the Armed Forces (Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force) and all offer a diverse range of jobs, from technical support and admin to truck driver and infantry, and yes you can pick your field provided you don't do open contract.

Third, there are many paths a low-wage worker can pursue provided they are motivated enough and yes there are certain things that can hamper a person's ability such as a criminal record, medical issues, family, whatever. The argument was that low-wage workers are equal to slaves but that's bullshit.

I think underappreciated would be a better term, not "slaves"

More about slave to the system and less about slave to an employer.

Unless if you can find an unclaimed island and manage to start a society there.

@ultimate-k said:

@huggybear1020 said:

Pretty much my opinion on people who whine and bitch about not getting paid enough.

Get that stick out of your ass, not everyone is in the same situation as you, just because you on minimum wage job doesn't mean they don't have education or skills, maybe they have no choice. Not everyone is born into a rich family and get money spoon fed to them, the world is not so black and white like you think it is.

I am the illegitimate offspring of an underage prostitute, spent my childhood in a trailer park and nearly died of malnutrition on more than one occasion. I worked my ass off to get to where,I am today and didn't whine about how unfair life was. So you'll have to excuse me if your childish rant is meaningless to me.

@ultimate-k said:

@huggybear1020 said:

Pretty much my opinion on people who whine and bitch about not getting paid enough.

Get that stick out of your ass, not everyone is in the same situation as you, just because you on minimum wage job doesn't mean they don't have education or skills, maybe they have no choice. Not everyone is born into a rich family and get money spoon fed to them, the world is not so black and white like you think it is.

Herp Derp

If you have employable skills, and an education that's worth something; Then they DO have a choice.
One doesn't have to be born into a rich family and have "monkey spoon fed to them", to find a job that utilizes their skills for more $$$.
It also doesn't cost very much to get into a trade, and you can work while you learn.

If you dont want to put the effort into finding a job that you'll enjoy, or at least be content with; I can only imagine how little effort you must put into a job you hate.

@Nibroc420: No jobs deep.

No jobs, not every country is under populated and filled with jobs. When your lying on your deathbed you realise that all that work you did means nothing.

No Jobs?

I'm constantly reading about how skilled employees in practically every field, are getting harder and harder to find. Baby boomers (the majority of the current work force) are retiring, meaning more openings for those who put the effort into getting a good education, and skills people will actually pay for.

Again, if someone doesn't want to put the effort into their own life, how much effort are they going to put in while working a job they hate?

@huggybear1020: Good for you, you worked hard for your job, but some people can work as hard as they want and still work in a supermarket because they didn't have the same opportunities or similar situation you been. The world is not black and white. Most of us are slaves to a piece of fucking paper, that's the system for us.

@huggybear1020 said:

@ultimate-k said:

@huggybear1020 said:

Pretty much my opinion on people who whine and bitch about not getting paid enough.

Get that stick out of your ass, not everyone is in the same situation as you, just because you on minimum wage job doesn't mean they don't have education or skills, maybe they have no choice. Not everyone is born into a rich family and get money spoon fed to them, the world is not so black and white like you think it is.

I am the illegitimate offspring of an underage prostitute, spent my childhood in a trailer park and nearly died of malnutrition on more than one occasion. I worked my ass off to get to where,I am today and didn't whine about how unfair life was. So you'll have to excuse me if your childish rant is meaningless to me.

If that's true, it makes your simplistic, ignorant, and childish view even more vexing, not more credible.

people work low-wage jobs voluntarily.

I think the only good reason a person has to work a low-wage job is if they're in school to get a better job.

of course there are exceptions, like if the person has a family to take care of and doesn't have time for school.

But increasing the minimum wage wouldn't help anyone; prices would inflate, companies would go out of business, and people would be fired.

As you said, there are some exceptions. For many, they either work or they end up on the streets with no roof on their heads. I imagine for those people, the choice is about as diverse as choosing between sharing a cage with a tiger and sharing an aquarium with a shark.

They always have a choice to invest time and money to get educated or to start a business, and it's sometimes a risk they have to take because there's not always a guarantee that this investment will pay off.

You're right that increasing minimum wage can be disastrous, but there has only been a marginal increase in minimum wage during these last few years while inflation has been soaring. And people have been fired due to downsizing, but not because low-wage workers were becoming more expensive. I think there's a legitimate concern in how inflation is going to affect the livable wage.

Low wage workers in third world countries are effectively slaves

Because being the offspring of an underage prostitute opens up so many opportunities and is such an advantageous position to be in.

Chances are, it was him working hard at his job, and getting an education that gave him opportunities;something everyone can do.

Living from pay-cheque to pay-cheque is not slavery.

I think a bigger issue at hand than low-pay is the prevalence of poorly-motivated people being protected by unions, and them forcing employers to keep weak employees at the cost of productivity.

While this is a dumb comparison some of the things said in opposition to the statement here are equally as asinine. OT sitting on par.

low skilled jobs get low pay...shocking!!!

A man chooses, a slave obeys.

Seriously though, this thread is ridiculous.

I don't think you understand how slavery works

@Nibroc420: I said it was him who worked hard. Everyone situation is different what is hard to understand about that?

@GreySeal9 said:

@huggybear1020 said:

@ultimate-k said:

@huggybear1020 said:

Pretty much my opinion on people who whine and bitch about not getting paid enough.

Get that stick out of your ass, not everyone is in the same situation as you, just because you on minimum wage job doesn't mean they don't have education or skills, maybe they have no choice. Not everyone is born into a rich family and get money spoon fed to them, the world is not so black and white like you think it is.

I am the illegitimate offspring of an underage prostitute, spent my childhood in a trailer park and nearly died of malnutrition on more than one occasion. I worked my ass off to get to where,I am today and didn't whine about how unfair life was. So you'll have to excuse me if your childish rant is meaningless to me.

If that's true, it makes your simplistic, ignorant, and childish view even more vexing, not more credible.

My point is that opportunity is there for people who take it. I never allowed my background to determine who I was going to be. Most people I grew up are either in prison or living paycheck to paycheck because they're too busy drinking and partying to get any sort of education or self-improvement. I vowed never to fall into the trap of doing something just because everyone around me was doing it, and am all the better for it today. I know it's hard to understand for someone who didn't come from my situation, but it is what it is.

@huggybear1020 said:

@GreySeal9 said:

@huggybear1020 said:

@ultimate-k said:

@huggybear1020 said:

Pretty much my opinion on people who whine and bitch about not getting paid enough.

Get that stick out of your ass, not everyone is in the same situation as you, just because you on minimum wage job doesn't mean they don't have education or skills, maybe they have no choice. Not everyone is born into a rich family and get money spoon fed to them, the world is not so black and white like you think it is.

I am the illegitimate offspring of an underage prostitute, spent my childhood in a trailer park and nearly died of malnutrition on more than one occasion. I worked my ass off to get to where,I am today and didn't whine about how unfair life was. So you'll have to excuse me if your childish rant is meaningless to me.

If that's true, it makes your simplistic, ignorant, and childish view even more vexing, not more credible.

My point is that opportunity is there for people who take it. I never allowed my background to determine who I was going to be. Most people I grew up are either in prison or living paycheck to paycheck because they're too busy drinking and partying to get any sort of education or self-improvement. I vowed never to fall into the trap of doing something just because everyone around me was doing it, and am all the better for it today. I know it's hard to understand for someone who didn't come from my situation, but it is what it is.

Nice bro my family is from greenwich connecticut, one of the richest areas in the country.

Guess what, rich people like drugs and not working just as much as poor people, the only difference is one group is sailing on yachts and the other is begging for food stamps.

Frankly, opportunity is way more available to people that arent poor.

Grow up around old money and see if your utopia of hard work = rewards stands true.

You suggested that him being the offspring of an underage prostitute, put him in some advantageous situation where he had more opportunities than others.

I was hoping you'd explain what sort of advantage you're assuming that gave him.

Assuming your special snowflake anecdote is actually true, that still doesn't change the fact that your country (I'm assuming you're American) should at least have done its best to provide you with enough food to prevent you from actually starving to death. Even if you turned out like the vast majority of Americans born to the lowest income group (hint: they generally stay there) instead of being a wonderful rags to riches success story. Maybe you thrived in spite of your disadvantageous background, but chances are you and the country would have been better off if your family hadn't been in that situation.

Of course the entire country would benefit from eliminating poverty. Hell, the world would benefit from that.

However the only reason the poor stay poor, is a lack of effort and forethought.

Is that why poor people stay poor?

gotta admit i was always real curious. But it turns out the root cause is that they just want to be poor.

glad someone can simplify it, for everyone. Turns out if you ask poor people if they want to be rich, they say no. Because apparently poor people love starvation.

If poor people are starving they are not using their food stamps wisely. Get food stamps and buy junk food with soda and complain lol.

And if so many are starving why is the US the so called fattest on earth? It's all BS!! You don't see sickly people down to nothing but bones. The poor eat more than the the rich..truth/fact

Nice strawman.