Ghost encounters in real life.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="ShadowJax04"]  said. That's the kind of thing I don't like because that feels cheap and at first I thought that was sort of what you had in mind.

ShadowJax04

Gallileo was a great man. It's hard not to defend theorizing as long as people don't jump to half-assed supernatural conclusions. Take for example the idea of a poltergeist:

If a poltergeist can make light switches go on and off, and start up electrical appliances, and make objects fall from shelves, then why don't they have the power to make a pen write a message on a piece of paper? And if they can why have this never been recorded?

It could be a ghost, it could also be the "energy" of a latent psychic person. No idea there. But I'm a skeptic at heart when it comes to this stuff, at least until tangible evidence arrives.

Why do you think they want to write a message on a piece of paper?

Maybe the "light switches go on and off, and start up electrical appliances, and make objects fall from shelves" is just static or interfernce of the poltergeist when in proximity?  

Humans tend to think that everything that happens must be related to them somehow, yet there are millions of creatures and things in the Universe that go on their everyday job or cycle without even caring about what a Human does.

Maybe a Poltergeist is just another one of those creatures, on a level/realm we cannot see (like the dog whistle which Humans cannot hear), going on their normal cycle and causing interference in our realm?

Why not in some cases?FelipeInside

When you don't have evidence or logic to explain something, what's wrong with thinking outside the box and creating theories or estimated guesses on what it could be. Or every time we can't explain something should we just go "Don't know, won't think about it". Humans will never evolve or improve like that. Lots of scientific theories started with thinking outside the box.FelipeInside

[QUOTE="ShadowJax04"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] Well obviously not EVERYTHING that happens is cause of a Ghost, lol... Like you said, it's best to keep an open mind (within reason). When they discovered the Earth wasn't flat, it probably started with a guess or theory thinking outside the box (by analyzing things around them). Maybe in 1000 years we discover Ghosts are real and they become part of everyday science.FelipeInside

Gallileo was a great man. It's hard not to defend theorizing as long as people don't jump to half-assed supernatural conclusions. Take for example the idea of a poltergeist:

If a poltergeist can make light switches go on and off, and start up electrical appliances, and make objects fall from shelves, then why don't they have the power to make a pen write a message on a piece of paper? And if they can why have this never been recorded?

It could be a ghost, it could also be the "energy" of a latent psychic person. No idea there. But I'm a skeptic at heart when it comes to this stuff, at least until tangible evidence arrives.

Why do you think they want to write a message on a piece of paper?

Maybe the "light switches go on and off, and start up electrical appliances, and make objects fall from shelves" is just static or interfernce of the poltergeist when in proximity?  

Humans tend to think that everything that happens must be related to them somehow, yet there are millions of creatures and things in the Universe that go on their everyday job or cycle without even caring about what a Human does.

Maybe a Poltergeist is just another one of those creatures, on a level/realm we cannot see (like the dog whistle which Humans cannot hear), going on their normal cycle and causing interference in our realm?

It's hard not to make that sound more epic than it is when you have a Vamp: the Masquerade avatar. I'm also open to the idea that there are more levels of existance than we humans can pick up on. In fact it's confirmed as you mention the dog whistle and obviously there's also more examples of this which also makes the idea of other beings of energy on a different plane of existance a bit more plausible.

This was also one of the things I had in mind when I mentioned enviromental factors. But we must not forget the biological and psychological factors such as human imagination. A lot of people are crazy. With that said, I have never personally had a 'ghost encounter' and that is why my stance is such that I'm a skeptic.

[QUOTE="ShadowJax04"][QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

By the natural law WE KNOW OF. 

Humans don't even know the 0.000000000000000000000001% of all the secrets of the Universe yet, so by judging something with the laws we know of, of course they might seem weird or counter productive.

Me, I prefer to think beyond the laws we know and create theories or logical guesses.  It's a lot more fun.  But of course I also am aware that a sound in the wall could just be the pipes, and not a ghost.

FelipeInside

I'm also open to the idea that there are more levels of existance than we humans can pick up on.ShadowJax04

[QUOTE="ShadowJax04"]I'm also open to the idea that there are more levels of existance than we humans can pick up on.foxhound_fox

Well I'm not jumping to conclusions. :PShadowJax04

[QUOTE="ShadowJax04"]Well I'm not jumping to conclusions. :Pfoxhound_fox

Yep, I'm no expert on the 4th dimension.ShadowJax04

[QUOTE="ShadowJax04"]Yep, I'm no expert on the 4th dimension.foxhound_fox

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="ShadowJax04"]Yep, I'm no expert on the 4th dimension.zeroyaoi

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="ShadowJax04"] Though I do hope we will meet aliens in my lifetime, that would be pretty neat. ShadowsDemon

Yes, and there's also a chance they are going to herd us like a lesser cattle.

[QUOTE="ShadowsDemon"][QUOTE="FelipeInside"] As long as they don't want to kill us all....lol. ShadowJax04

Yes, and there's also a chance they are going to herd us like a lesser cattle.

[QUOTE="ShadowJax04"]

[QUOTE="ShadowsDemon"] After seeing our discussions in OT they probably would think they're doing us a favour :PShadowsDemon

Yes, and there's also a chance they are going to herd us like a lesser cattle. 

As long as they don't Zerg Rush us we have a fighting chance !!!

[QUOTE="ShadowsDemon"][QUOTE="ShadowJax04"]

Yes, and there's also a chance they are going to herd us like a lesser cattle. 

FelipeInside

As long as they don't Zerg Rush us we have a fighting chance !!!

As long as they don't Zerg Rush us we have a fighting chance !!!FelipeInside

[QUOTE="ShadowJax04"][QUOTE="FelipeInside"] Why not in some cases? When you don't have evidence or logic to explain something, what's wrong with thinking outside the box and creating theories or estimated guesses on what it could be. Or every time we can't explain something should we just go "Don't know, won't think about it". Humans will never evolve or improve like that. Lots of scientific theories started with thinking outside the box.FelipeInside

Again, what's wrong in creating theories outside of what we know?

When something can't be proven or explained with the knowledge we have now, should we just sit on our bottoms and say "Oh well, we don't know" and twiddle our fingers? Or maybe start creating theories beyond what we know to try to explain them or prove them?

Humans evolve by trial and error, not by sitting down and saying "we don't know".

Because I can sit here and say the fairies in my underware created the universe five minutes ago and gave us all memories and created the light from stars en route and that's just as valid as anything you'll come up with.  It's a waste of time to dwell on what's possible, instead you focus on what's probable. Massive difference.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

[QUOTE="ShadowJax04"] Ghosts is just an umbrella term for several things we don't understand including biological (seeing shadows out the corner of your eyes having to do with the prevalence of rod photoreceptors in your peripheral vision) psychological and environmental factors. Again why jump to the supernatural? Cavemen believed fire was a god, that doesn't mean we have to.wis3boi

Again, what's wrong in creating theories outside of what we know?

When something can't be proven or explained with the knowledge we have now, should we just sit on our bottoms and say "Oh well, we don't know" and twiddle our fingers? Or maybe start creating theories beyond what we know to try to explain them or prove them?

Humans evolve by trial and error, not by sitting down and saying "we don't know".

Because I can sit here and say the fairies in my underware created the universe five minutes ago and gave us all memories and created the light from stars en route and that's just as valid as anything you'll come up with.  It's a waste of time to dwell on what's possible, instead you focus on what's probable. Massive difference.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

Again, what's wrong in creating theories outside of what we know?

When something can't be proven or explained with the knowledge we have now, should we just sit on our bottoms and say "Oh well, we don't know" and twiddle our fingers? Or maybe start creating theories beyond what we know to try to explain them or prove them?

Humans evolve by trial and error, not by sitting down and saying "we don't know".

FelipeInside

Because I can sit here and say the fairies in my underware created the universe five minutes ago and gave us all memories and created the light from stars en route and that's just as valid as anything you'll come up with.  It's a waste of time to dwell on what's possible, instead you focus on what's probable. Massive difference.

Scientists are not just sitting in their bedroom dreaming about things and writing them down.  They are actively testing things using tools and labs based on repeat observations.  We are not.  The time to believe is when there is a reason to, so yes, it is good to wait.  Plus, you're using theory wrong again, as a scientific theory is the pinnacle of an idea...it's like it got it's college diploma.  I don't care if you sit there and think about god knows what, but to act like science does that the same way you do is ludicrous.  

We both know the example u gave is ridiculous, so it's NOT as valid as other theories people have.FelipeInside

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

Because I can sit here and say the fairies in my underware created the universe five minutes ago and gave us all memories and created the light from stars en route and that's just as valid as anything you'll come up with.  It's a waste of time to dwell on what's possible, instead you focus on what's probable. Massive difference.

wis3boi

Scientists are not just sitting in their bedroom dreaming about things and writing them down.  They are actively testing things using tools and labs based on repeat observations.  We are not.  The time to believe is when there is a reason to, so yes, it is good to wait.  Plus, you're using theory wrong again, as a scientific theory is the pinnacle of an idea...it's like it got it's college diploma.  I don't care if you sit there and think about god knows what, but to act like science does that the same way you do is ludicrous.  

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]We both know the example u gave is ridiculous, so it's NOT as valid as other theories people have.foxhound_fox

Galileo NEVER looked up at the stars and then thought "Wait a sec, it could be that the Earth isn't flat"?FelipeInside

Uuuuhhh...it was as common knowledge in Galileo's time that the Earth was round as it is now. In fact, Eratosthenes (~200BC) pretty accurately measured the Earth as a sphere.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]Galileo NEVER looked up at the stars and then thought "Wait a sec, it could be that the Earth isn't flat"?br0kenrabbit

Uuuuhhh...it was as common knowledge in Galileo's time that the Earth was round as it is now. In fact, Eratosthenes (~200BC) pretty accurately measured the Earth as a sphere.

You miss the point.FelipeInside

You've never had a point. Not one worth replying to, anyway.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] You miss the point.br0kenrabbit

You've never had a point. Not one worth replying to, anyway.

So you miss my point and then resort to insult me. Why bother even responding?FelipeInside

To correct your fallacy.

That should have been clearly obvious.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]So you miss my point and then resort to insult me. Why bother even responding?br0kenrabbit

To correct your fallacy.

That should have been clearly obvious.

What fallacy? I quoted Galileo just to express the initial point. Maybe the "Earth Flat" example wasn't directly related to him and if so I apologize.FelipeInside

The Fallacy that Galileo might have believed the Earth to be flat. He knew it wasn't so. Most people did back then.

To quote someone means you state exactly what they did (if you're close to saying what they did but even a word or two off, that's not a quote, it's a paraphrase). But in this case, Galileo would believe no such thing.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]What fallacy? I quoted Galileo just to express the initial point. Maybe the "Earth Flat" example wasn't directly related to him and if so I apologize.br0kenrabbit

The Fallacy that Galileo might have believed the Earth to be flat. He knew it wasn't so. Most people did back then.

To quote someone means you state exactly what they did (if you're close to saying what they did but even a word or two off, that's not a quote, it's a paraphrase). But in this case, Galileo would believe no such thing.

No, I meant that Galileo believed the Earth WASN'T Flat.

I maybe expressed myself not entirely clear on my statement before.

There is no evidence to suggest the existence of ghosts. If you think you have seen a ghost then you are delusional.Laihendi

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]There is no evidence to suggest the existence of ghosts. If you think you have seen a ghost then you are delusional.FelipeInside

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="Laihendi"]There is no evidence to suggest the existence of ghosts. If you think you have seen a ghost then you are delusional.Laihendi

Not really. You discard ANYTHING which doesn't have current evidence. Things exist which science hasn't been able to prove yet. Basically you must also believe we are alone in the Universe because there is no evidence of other life? If so, who's ignorant there?FelipeInside

Neither biology nor physics precludes life on other worlds, because all that's required for life is a habitable environment, and we know of at least one planet with such. Therefore, we have one verifiable positive sample to extrapolate from.

Not so with the supernatural. Nothing, nada, zilch. No empirical evidence whatsoever.

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]There is no evidence to suggest the existence of ghosts. If you think you have seen a ghost then you are delusional.FelipeInside

That doesn't work there.  There's zero reason to think ghosts exist, claiming you saw one is unfounded and indistinguishable from a delusion or halucination.  The default position is disbelief until proven otherwise.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="Laihendi"]There is no evidence to suggest the existence of ghosts. If you think you have seen a ghost then you are delusional.wis3boi

That doesn't work there.  There's zero reason to think ghosts exist, claiming you saw one is unfounded and indistinguishable from a delusion or halucination.  The default position is disbelief until proven otherwise.

By you and others that choose that path.  It wouldn't be belief if we had evidence now would it?

Other people choose to have faith, belief, theories on things that don't have evidence yet.  Why is that so hard to understand with you guys?

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]Not really. You discard ANYTHING which doesn't have current evidence. Things exist which science hasn't been able to prove yet. Basically you must also believe we are alone in the Universe because there is no evidence of other life? If so, who's ignorant there?br0kenrabbit

Neither biology nor physics precludes life on other worlds, because all that's required for life is a habitable environment, and we know of at least one planet with such. Therefore, we have one verifiable positive sample to extrapolate from.

Not so with the supernatural. Nothing, nada, zilch. No empirical evidence whatsoever.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] Uhhh goody, I get to use Shadow's phrase which I like: "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"FelipeInside

That doesn't work there.  There's zero reason to think ghosts exist, claiming you saw one is unfounded and indistinguishable from a delusion or halucination.  The default position is disbelief until proven otherwise.

By you and others that choose that path.  It wouldn't be belief if we had evidence now would it?

Other people choose to have faith, belief, theories on things that don't have evidence yet.  Why is that so hard to understand with you guys?

because that's asinine to do

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

Again, what's wrong in creating theories outside of what we know?

When something can't be proven or explained with the knowledge we have now, should we just sit on our bottoms and say "Oh well, we don't know" and twiddle our fingers? Or maybe start creating theories beyond what we know to try to explain them or prove them?

Humans evolve by trial and error, not by sitting down and saying "we don't know".

FelipeInside

Because I can sit here and say the fairies in my underware created the universe five minutes ago and gave us all memories and created the light from stars en route and that's just as valid as anything you'll come up with.  It's a waste of time to dwell on what's possible, instead you focus on what's probable. Massive difference.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

That doesn't work there.  There's zero reason to think ghosts exist, claiming you saw one is unfounded and indistinguishable from a delusion or halucination.  The default position is disbelief until proven otherwise.

wis3boi

By you and others that choose that path.  It wouldn't be belief if we had evidence now would it?

Other people choose to have faith, belief, theories on things that don't have evidence yet.  Why is that so hard to understand with you guys?

because that's asinine to do

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="Laihendi"]There is no evidence to suggest the existence of ghosts. If you think you have seen a ghost then you are delusional.Laihendi