This whole thing seems to have gotten real crazy... All I know is that I'm pretty sick of playing a white male in pretty much every game. I welcome some new perspectives that this whole situation is bound to bring some to gaming. Even if this could be some kind of campaign to distract from the journalistic integrity stuff going on, I don't care. Diversity in games is a real issue and this has enough steam to make some changes with that, which excites me. I could even care less about journalistic integrity at all when it comes to gaming... I can make up my own mind about games, I don't need a journalists approval of something. All I need from gaming journalists is to tell me what games there are and to show me some game play and tell me some info about the game. You don't need journalistic integrity for any of that...
I have an idea! Lets put all the worlds problems on a big list, we'll put them in descending order from "horrible" to "not so bad". Until the top problem is solved, nobody is allowed to care about any other problems. We will continue down the list until all problems are solved!
It's not like I've been rallying for a change... but I for one welcome some diversity amongst the straight white male desert that is the current state of main stream video game characters. And I don't believe it is the devs choice to make these straight white male characters... the publishers force these characters because they fit the demographic they think they can sell to, or at the very least don't buy ip's that don't fit the bill.
I have an idea! Lets put all the worlds problems on a big list, we'll put them in descending order from "horrible" to "not so bad". Until the top problem is solved, nobody is allowed to care about any other problems. We will continue down the list until all problems are solved!
It's not like I've been rallying for a change... but I for one welcome some diversity amongst the straight white male desert that is the current state of main stream video game characters. And I don't believe it is the devs choice to make these straight white male characters... the publishers force these characters because they fit the demographic they think they can sell to, or at the very least don't buy ip's that don't fit the bill.
political correctnes doesn't have a place in art imho.
I find "political correctness" tends to be code for "don't call me out on my bullshit."
Like when bigots railed against the "ground zero mosque."
Exactly. People who complain about "Political Correctness" are basically saying that they want to be able put down other groups of people while not having to deal with any consequences. Now there are plenty of groups that I like to talk trash about: Social Conservatives, many types of Republicans, religious fundamentalists, anti-feminists/sexists, homophobes, racists and a certain segment of the gaming community but when I make comments about them I don't hide behind some "Anti-PC" shield. I don't say, "Oh we'll you're just being PC if you don't just sit there in silence and let me say whatever I want about your group, even though it would be kinda of funny to flip that logic around on them.. LOL I'm intellectually honest about my dislike of large percentages of these groups ;O)
What about you stop trying to claim things you have absolute no proof of.
First it was that all conservatives were bad parents and it was only there parents disowned their kids and now its that everyone tired of just how far out political correctness has gone, is because they are out to oppress others.
Do you ever stop to look at your own hypocrisy? and perhaps look at all the judgemental nonsense you spew out on this forum?
FINALLY!!! It sinks in... I was wondering how long it was going to take.
Stop claiming things I have no proof of?? Thank you, I have been waiting for this moment. ;O)
Oh you mean like claims that most feminists are anti-male? That we all want more rights than males? That we think all males are pigs? And all the other claims you guys make about us? And yet you anti-feminists have no evidence actually showing that to be a fact?
Congratulations, it took a while but you guys are FINALLY starting to see the light. LOL I honestly didn't think you, of all people, would be the one who finally said those words. And you didn't disappoint by even adding the comment about hypocrisy, which is probably completely lost on you, concerning your own posts.
Game. Set. Match. Thanks for playing. ;O)
Note: You missed two other sweeping generalizations that I made recently as well. LOL
Trolling so hard. Put LOL randomly more, people will actually think you're that stupid.
Accusing people of trolling is always the last resort of people who have no arguments left. ;O) Its the equivalent of the guys who yell "hacks" when I beat them in games.
If you were legit you wouldn't be fighting for shit in video games. People are getting their heads cut off, women are literally property in multiple countries and are sold into sex slavery daily. Instead you prod on about people that basically are whoring themselves to further their standpoint in the industry. I don't take anything you say seriously because you're a dime a dozen and don't really stand for anything real in this world.
Let me agree with you on one thing. In mario bros, we need more transgendered people and women. In a game where people eat mushrooms to get bigger and you can shoot fireballs i need realism and equal rights.
This thread is shit and is nothing but a troll.
Say ad hom, strawmen, LOL and put that smiley face in your reply, it'll make me laugh and provide hours of entertainment for all!
The irony here is that you don't seem to realize you are fighting over the same issue on here. So according to your own logic, you are a troll. *insert facepalm pic here* LOL All of these serious problems going on in the world and here you guys are complaining about things like feminism and corruption in journalism. LOL And you guys are actually making a lot more threads about this issue than I have so you must be super trolls.
I love it when people post this type of self-defeating argument.
This one was so spectacular that I'm going to screenshot it for my blog. LOL
I have an idea! Lets put all the worlds problems on a big list, we'll put them in descending order from "horrible" to "not so bad". Until the top problem is solved, nobody is allowed to care about any other problems. We will continue down the list until all problems are solved!
It's not like I've been rallying for a change... but I for one welcome some diversity amongst the straight white male desert that is the current state of main stream video game characters. And I don't believe it is the devs choice to make these straight white male characters... the publishers force these characters because they fit the demographic they think they can sell to, or at the very least don't buy ip's that don't fit the bill.
TL:DR.
Do you actually plan to contribute anything to the discussion other than destroying your own arguments, calling people trolls for not sharing your view and saying "TLDR" when confronted with arguments that you have no response for? ;O)
I have an idea! Lets put all the worlds problems on a big list, we'll put them in descending order from "horrible" to "not so bad". Until the top problem is solved, nobody is allowed to care about any other problems. We will continue down the list until all problems are solved!
It's not like I've been rallying for a change... but I for one welcome some diversity amongst the straight white male desert that is the current state of main stream video game characters. And I don't believe it is the devs choice to make these straight white male characters... the publishers force these characters because they fit the demographic they think they can sell to, or at the very least don't buy ip's that don't fit the bill.
TL:DR.
Do you actually plan to contribute anything to the discussion other than destroying your own arguments, calling people trolls for not sharing your view and saying "TLDR" when confronted with arguments that you have no response for? ;O)
Try the previous page. You're proving to be a shiny example why we shouldn't let women out of the kitchen.
I have an idea! Lets put all the worlds problems on a big list, we'll put them in descending order from "horrible" to "not so bad". Until the top problem is solved, nobody is allowed to care about any other problems. We will continue down the list until all problems are solved!
It's not like I've been rallying for a change... but I for one welcome some diversity amongst the straight white male desert that is the current state of main stream video game characters. And I don't believe it is the devs choice to make these straight white male characters... the publishers force these characters because they fit the demographic they think they can sell to, or at the very least don't buy ip's that don't fit the bill.
TL:DR.
Do you actually plan to contribute anything to the discussion other than destroying your own arguments, calling people trolls for not sharing your view and saying "TLDR" when confronted with arguments that you have no response for? ;O)
Try the previous page. You're proving to be a shiny example why we shouldn't let women out of the kitchen.
I have an idea! Lets put all the worlds problems on a big list, we'll put them in descending order from "horrible" to "not so bad". Until the top problem is solved, nobody is allowed to care about any other problems. We will continue down the list until all problems are solved!
It's not like I've been rallying for a change... but I for one welcome some diversity amongst the straight white male desert that is the current state of main stream video game characters. And I don't believe it is the devs choice to make these straight white male characters... the publishers force these characters because they fit the demographic they think they can sell to, or at the very least don't buy ip's that don't fit the bill.
TL:DR.
Do you actually plan to contribute anything to the discussion other than destroying your own arguments, calling people trolls for not sharing your view and saying "TLDR" when confronted with arguments that you have no response for? ;O)
Try the previous page. You're proving to be a shiny example why we shouldn't let women out of the kitchen.
Careful, those true colors are creeping through.
Are you bringing racism into this because i'm a black man? fighting your own fight?
No the vast majority of gamers provably don't give a shit about equality in video games, or that much about about gaming period, as they tend to be casual. The loud minority happens to be people who continue to misrepresent and misunderstand the basic message of Sarkeesian and other critics - we simply observe an overall trend and bias in games and other media where a very specific demographic (white male) are ridiculously overrepresented, with most other characters written poorly.
Now, in the interests of good writing and fairness it's obvious that we would argue for female/minority characters to have better writing, representation, .etc in video games and media and general. This does not mean that we, who are enthusiastic enough about gaming to detect and criticize its obvious flaws, are intent on destroying the image of gamers in the eyes of the public. We would simply like a shift in gaming culture to make it friendlier and more open to female/minority gamers, much in the same way that civil rights groups in the U.S. fought to change the culture to accommodate women and non-whites, rather than destroying the country outright.
But there's always this reactionary element that reacts to criticism like that in the same way that a six year old would, making shit up about the other side's message and bombarding them with a torrent of completely unwarranted incivility while ironically whining about their own oppression and persecution and the supposed "poor behaviour" of feminists. The hilarious thing is that this immature bitching and tantrum throwing is infinitely more damaging and self-destructive to the "image" of gamers than Sarkeesian's videos could ever be, much like how people today have a very negative opinion of historical Americans due to their racist and sexist attitudes.
Barbariser, where do you get your premise from? Upon which data does it stand on? I point you to my post #106 in this thread, I gathered a ESA study and a few more articles that address those issues and bring data on how demographics are distributed in gaming, which types of games they spend more on, etc., and it shows the opposite of that. That there's no actual overrepresentation in relation to what consumers of said products are actually buying them.
The vast majority of buyers of high profile games, which are the games with leading roles under scrutiny, are men. Also, it's rare to find and keep women working in the industry, and the CEO of Women in Games International, an organization that advocates integration of women in the industry and audience, didn't bring reactionism or sexism as factors (of course it exists, but it doesn't seem to be more relevant then actual interest for the industry). From what the CEOs of companies like Ubisoft and EA said, the market is open for cattering to said demographics, but it's still not at that point yet, though it is improving. Also, there's a cultural (but not necessarily sexist) tendency for women to design women, and men to design men, on the development process. This was mentioned by the CEO of EA. I see that this is the kind of thing that won't change overnight. It's a process, an ongoing process, and women are actually becoming a bigger audience in other genres, and intrating more into companies, and the change follows in the same proportion.
For your last paragraph: I hope you don't take my answer as that kind of behavior, but as an actual attempt into discussing things.
Edit: here we go again. Don't you guys see? This topic was wrought into all this to divert people from discussing the issue of gaming journalism ethics resurfacing with more strenght and repercussion than before...
Except that you're simply shifting the problem. Men being a dominant consumer group doesn't justify the poor characterization and treatment of women in the gaming industry, and it completely ignores the reason why women make up a small portion of the dedicated gamer playerbase in the first place (hint: hostility from the gaming culture in that area + the poor treatment of female characters in those games is probably a pretty fucking big contributor!). It also contradicts your assertion that "most gamers are pro equality". If most male gamers really cared about gender equality in their media, Blizzard Entertainment would have gone bankrupt a decade ago, or at least their games would be very different.
Also, women make up 12-18% of developers according to you and it sure as hell doen't feel like 1/6 of lead characters in big budget video games are female. That ratio probably gets even worse then you consider that a significant number of female protagonists were basically designed as sex objects (nearly all the Tomb Raiders, Bloodrayne for example). Sure it's probable that the situation will be somewhat better and more egalitarian with each passing year but that doesn't make it any less shit now.
You were the one who was harping on about people trying to make gamers look bad by generalizing them. I'm simply pointing out that feminist gamers aren't trying to paint a villainous picture of the industry, we simply want to alter the gaming culture to make it more inclusive and egalitarian. If anyone's making gamers look bad it's the giant horde of sexist assholes raging against things that very few people actually advocate and spamming a few women with death & rape threats and accusations of imaginary crimes for no reason.
@purplelabel said:
If you were legit you wouldn't be fighting for shit in video games. People are getting their heads cut off, women are literally property in multiple countries and are sold into sex slavery daily. Instead you prod on about people that basically are whoring themselves to further their standpoint in the industry. I don't take anything you say seriously because you're a dime a dozen and don't really stand for anything real in this world.
Let me agree with you on one thing. In mario bros, we need more transgendered people and women. In a game where people eat mushrooms to get bigger and you can shoot fireballs i need realism and equal rights.
This thread is shit and is nothing but a troll.
Say ad hom, strawmen, LOL and put that smiley face in your reply, it'll make me laugh and provide hours of entertainment for all!
"Bad things happen elsewhere so you should focus on them instead of pointing out the bad aspects of things I like, because we can only look at one problem at a time. However it's perfectly okay for me to go on gaming forums and attack people for not looking at things I deem more important!"
Read your own post and look at what a fucking idiot you are.
You know, when people complain about sexism in games, they're really pointing out how our media reflects underlying societal mindsets that we're not always aware of. For example, the number of jokes about prison rape in our media reflects that we don't see it (prison rape) as a serious issue.
So things like the whole "but there are bigger problems" spiel don't really hold up under scrutiny as a point in an argument. Especially not when you don't see the irony of saying that while spending a lot of energy arguing about it...
On another note, I think that the gaming press is really shooting themselves in the foot. By making the scandal about Quinn and Sarkeesian, they're ultimately exacerbating the problem they're railing against, when the ones who deserved the scorn in the first place were Kotaku, for their disgusting ethical failure.
I have an idea! Lets put all the worlds problems on a big list, we'll put them in descending order from "horrible" to "not so bad". Until the top problem is solved, nobody is allowed to care about any other problems. We will continue down the list until all problems are solved!
It's not like I've been rallying for a change... but I for one welcome some diversity amongst the straight white male desert that is the current state of main stream video game characters. And I don't believe it is the devs choice to make these straight white male characters... the publishers force these characters because they fit the demographic they think they can sell to, or at the very least don't buy ip's that don't fit the bill.
I would say the bigger issue would be the large imbalance between the number of male devs and the number of female devs.
Here's a little activity you can try. Start creating a story in your head. Just a very basic concept that could make for a movie. Try imagining the protagonist of the story in your head. What's their name? What do they look like?
Now I have a question: was the protagonist the same gender as you? I believe most of the time this answer will be yes. I think people default their protagonists to their own gender. They need to have some real reason to make protagonist have the opposite gender. It is just the way our minds work.
Except that you're simply shifting the problem. Men being a dominant consumer group doesn't justify the poor characterization and treatment of women in the gaming industry, and it completely ignores the reason why women make up a small portion of the dedicated gamer playerbase in the first place (hint: hostility from the gaming culture in that area + the poor treatment of female characters in those games is probably a pretty fucking big contributor!). It also contradicts your assertion that "most gamers are pro equality". If most male gamers really cared about gender equality in their media, Blizzard Entertainment would have gone bankrupt a decade ago, or at least their games would be very different.
Also, women make up 12-18% of developers according to you and it sure as hell doen't feel like 1/6 of lead characters in big budget video games are female. That ratio probably gets even worse then you consider that a significant number of female protagonists were basically designed as sex objects (nearly all the Tomb Raiders, Bloodrayne for example). Sure it's probable that the situation will be somewhat better and more egalitarian with each passing year but that doesn't make it any less shit now.
You were the one who was harping on about people trying to make gamers look bad by generalizing them. I'm simply pointing out that feminist gamers aren't trying to paint a villainous picture of the industry, we simply want to alter the gaming culture to make it more inclusive and egalitarian. If anyone's making gamers look bad it's the giant horde of sexist assholes raging against things that very few people actually advocate and spamming a few women with death & rape threats and accusations of imaginary crimes for no reason.
Shifting the problem? I'm actually trying to look at it from another perspective, a complementary one. Of course there are other barriers, but they don't seem to be the biggest ones, they are not the determining forces here. I base myself on data, you are extrapolating, basing extrapolation on assumptions. Assuming isn't enough and is bound to make injustice to what's the real problem when viewed holistically. You name 1 cause for all of it, this is simplistic.
There are many signs that you are doing that, mainly how you're quick to fill the blanks that way, and how you read into the info given to you. It's not 12-18% of developers. It's 12-18% of presence of women in the industry. This means in all positions, not just those with directive influence to determine leading roles, or power over the creative process. Even if it was that way, how can you say so quickly what's the actual % of female characters in games without looking into it and basing yourself on actual information?
Watch this.
The rethoric behind your view, I say this respectfully, is the same one that's been repeated everywhere creating an hyperbolized perception of bias instead of studying the existing bias. Extrapolating the existing bias and distributing it where it seems to fit, simply because the process of assumption allows it.
As for women designed as sex objects: this is a complex question that can't simply be translated to bigotry. For example: is there a sex drive because there are Playboy-esque publications, or are there Playboy-esque publications because of sex drive? Is the publication sexist for it's sole existance?
Also: are men also not designed in an oversexed and overmuscular way in many games as well? Is that aimed to the female audience or the queer (I hope this is not an offensive word, I don't know if it is, in my native language it isn't) audience? we see that many times, it's not. It's only the artistic vision behind the game. Are all the products of said artistic design made to sell to an especific audience, or are there many times when that's actually an identity behind the game, the devs vision of it's design?
Is objectfying a woman a great selling point to a game, thus a barrier to designing more realistical women? Let's look at numbers one more time. Dead or Alive for example, known for heavily relying on such strategy to sell more: DOA 5 sold 500k units worldwide; while it's main rival game, which has a majority of male characters, Tekken Tag Tournament 2, sold 840k units on Japan and Europe alone. DOA Extreme Beach Volleyball and Extreme 2 only sold 127k and 230k each. These 2 are the best definition of using women as objects in order to sell games... and look at the result. While Dragon's Crown, while also has some absurd character designs, both for males and females, is known also for it's great gameplay and fun, sold 940k worldwide already (after more than a year, though it's not disclosed if PS+ free downloads were took into account there).
So... from these sales data, I'd certainly conclude that women objectifcation is a selling point to a very narrow demographics, or games like DOA Extreme 2 would sell a lot more. Gameplay still seem to be a lot more of a selling point. Also, games that while having women characters looking like that sometimes have oversexed and overmuscular characters as their artistic identity, goes both ways.
Add to that sales of games that are not directed at such audiences, and how they sell way more, like Uncharted, Dark Souls, etc. (this is a list with the majority of games out actually) and it's obvious that gameplay, storyline and presentation are the main selling point. Taking women objectification as a wide market sexist issue is extrapolation, almost conjecture, an attempt to try to explain the market's configuration on a solely ideological level.
That "giant horde of sexist assholes" you talk about are a minority at best. I've already pointed and proved this many times, with different data, different arguments, always factual ones, always logically valid. But this does not pleases the interests of those that wants to see a villainous problem of false black & white dichotomous configuration in the industry, solely out of ideological premises, and taking correlation as causation (jumping to false cause fallacy). Are there obstacles for women in gaming? Of course there are. And as I said, they are many, starting from economical questions, marketshare questions, lack interest in working in the industry when compared to males, etc. This doesn't mean that sexism is not an issue. It's saying that it's a problem that's most probably faced within certain groups, within certain companies, while you will certainly find many others that do not face that. And these obstacles will be demolished progressively like they are being already, at the same pace of the increase in women interest for the industry, like said in my post #106.
What ever happened to gaming just being gaming? Why does a persons sexuality, race or gender have to be wrapped up in it? Why hasn't a tall, blonde, German been the main character of a Grand Theft Auto game? I'm going to stomp my feet and throw a fit now. ......lol
Why cant we all just shut the **** up and play games?
I see the people who complain about women wanting better characters representing us in games, say this same thing.... And yet, they are not following their own advice. They respond by complaining that adding strong female, LGBT or black characters is somehow ruining their games. Why is that? What happened to just enjoying the games? ;O)
I have not read a single comment like that in all my time on the internet.
At least on GameSpot, what I have read was the huge demand for intriguing characters instead of catering to one race, gender, or sexual orientation. If that means expanding the targeted demographics through new types of characters then that is what will be accepted.
However, I would not be surprised if there actually are individuals who would literally take offense at what is being proposed because of the fact that minorities are going to be represented more.
Then you clearly must live in a cave and don't pay attention to what goes on. The examples of males being angry about strong female characters are endless. There have been plenty of those arguments made on here since I started posted here. Look at the Tomb Raider issue. Many males were upset because of the changes and accused the devs of bowing down to the "feminist agenda." And remember the Battlefield 3 incident when people were upset about one of the characters being changed from white to black? The devs were accused of bowing down to the "PC Police." Remember the gay controversy from mass effect 3? The devs were accused of once again bowing to the pc police. LOL
I do not believe that. Also, I dislike how you focused on one part of my comment when it is all relevant to this conversation.
Don't believe what? If you don't believe any of those things happened, feel free to research them. Google is your friend.
For example, if you want to know about the black/white BF3 controversy then feel free to go to the Battlefield forum and type "black medic" in the search. Enjoy the endless complaints about it.
Here is a funny Battlefield Friends video they did involving the black/white controversy on BF3.
I do not believe that the examples are endless and I think this situation is being exacerbated by exaggeration. Yes, there are misogynists, racists, and many other individuals who say and do evil things who happen to play video games. In my experience, they have been a vocal minority.
This is an important issue and equally crucial to addressing it at all is giving it proper representation. Unless you clarify, it seems like you and others are saying the majority of video game players are these people. Again, I am asserting that is not true and we need clarity in this type of situation because it is easy to stereotype.
I have an idea! Lets put all the worlds problems on a big list, we'll put them in descending order from "horrible" to "not so bad". Until the top problem is solved, nobody is allowed to care about any other problems. We will continue down the list until all problems are solved!
It's not like I've been rallying for a change... but I for one welcome some diversity amongst the straight white male desert that is the current state of main stream video game characters. And I don't believe it is the devs choice to make these straight white male characters... the publishers force these characters because they fit the demographic they think they can sell to, or at the very least don't buy ip's that don't fit the bill.
I would say the bigger issue would be the large imbalance between the number of male devs and the number of female devs.
Here's a little activity you can try. Start creating a story in your head. Just a very basic concept that could make for a movie. Try imagining the protagonist of the story in your head. What's their name? What do they look like?
Now I have a question: was the protagonist the same gender as you? I believe most of the time this answer will be yes. I think people default their protagonists to their own gender. They need to have some real reason to make protagonist have the opposite gender. It is just the way our minds work.
That's an ancient issue of imagination, already discussed in philosophy as early as 570-475 BC, by Xenophanes of Colophon:
"But if cattle and horses and lions had hands
or could paint with their hands and create works such as men do,
horses like horses and cattle like cattle
also would depict the gods' shapes and make their bodies
of such a sort as the form they themselves have.
...
Ethiopians say that their gods are snub–nosed [σιμούς] and black
I have an idea! Lets put all the worlds problems on a big list, we'll put them in descending order from "horrible" to "not so bad". Until the top problem is solved, nobody is allowed to care about any other problems. We will continue down the list until all problems are solved!
It's not like I've been rallying for a change... but I for one welcome some diversity amongst the straight white male desert that is the current state of main stream video game characters. And I don't believe it is the devs choice to make these straight white male characters... the publishers force these characters because they fit the demographic they think they can sell to, or at the very least don't buy ip's that don't fit the bill.
I would say the bigger issue would be the large imbalance between the number of male devs and the number of female devs.
Here's a little activity you can try. Start creating a story in your head. Just a very basic concept that could make for a movie. Try imagining the protagonist of the story in your head. What's their name? What do they look like?
Now I have a question: was the protagonist the same gender as you? I believe most of the time this answer will be yes. I think people default their protagonists to their own gender. They need to have some real reason to make protagonist have the opposite gender. It is just the way our minds work.
I think the problem is definitely more on the industry's side than on the audience's side. Audiences don't have problem with characters like Alyx Vance, Samus Aran, Jade, April, Elizabeth, Elise, or Lara Croft being female.
The problem is we have numerous examples where developers have had a hard time getting their vision out because of the publishers, because they perceive gamers as not wanting to play games with female characters. Kinda like how that Legend of Korra show is popular. The dudes making it said that the kids watching didn't care the main character was a girl. They just cared that she was awesome.
LGBT characters are a bit of a different story, though.
You know, when people complain about sexism in games, they're really pointing out how our media reflects underlying societal mindsets that we're not always aware of. For example, the number of jokes about prison rape in our media reflects that we don't see it (prison rape) as a serious issue.
So things like the whole "but there are bigger problems" spiel don't really hold up under scrutiny as a point in an argument. Especially not when you don't see the irony of saying that while spending a lot of energy arguing about it...
On another note, I think that the gaming press is really shooting themselves in the foot. By making the scandal about Quinn and Sarkeesian, they're ultimately exacerbating the problem they're railing against, when the ones who deserved the scorn in the first place were Kotaku, for their disgusting ethical failure.
I don't think so.. Sarkeesian, regardless of what you think of her, got fvcking death threats and vile crap to the point she felt unsafe in her own home.. What kind of fvcking man-child sends death threats to some one because they are critical of something they like? This needed to happen, to shame these pricks that you can't fvcking do that sh!t anymore.. They are a embarrassment to the gaming community and it reflects negatively on everyone in the community.
You know, when people complain about sexism in games, they're really pointing out how our media reflects underlying societal mindsets that we're not always aware of. For example, the number of jokes about prison rape in our media reflects that we don't see it (prison rape) as a serious issue.
So things like the whole "but there are bigger problems" spiel don't really hold up under scrutiny as a point in an argument. Especially not when you don't see the irony of saying that while spending a lot of energy arguing about it...
On another note, I think that the gaming press is really shooting themselves in the foot. By making the scandal about Quinn and Sarkeesian, they're ultimately exacerbating the problem they're railing against, when the ones who deserved the scorn in the first place were Kotaku, for their disgusting ethical failure.
I don't think so.. Sarkeesian, regardless of what you think of her, got fvcking death threats and vile crap to the point she felt unsafe in her own home.. What kind of fvcking man-child sends death threats to some one because they are critical of something they like? This needed to happen, to shame these pricks that you can't fvcking do that sh!t anymore.. They are a embarrassment to the gaming community and it reflects negatively on everyone in the community.
Oh, not making excuses for that. I just think the "gaming press" is responsible in part for directing said manchildren at a convenient scapegoat, rather than owning up to their own failings.
Because that managed to allow them to turn it into a bitchfest about feminism and whatever, rather than what this was really about in the first place: ethics in journalism.
Of course, the other side did no favors by taking the first opportunity to go after Quinn.
I agree that it's a shame that it all started with a sex scandal, and some people still don't want to touch it because of it.
But the more info they dug up on Zoe the less pity I had her. This women used RW death to promote herself and her depression related game, after setting gaming media and her large twitter following to abuse people on a forum for suicidal depressed male virgins.
Everyone has a place in gaming, but only certain groups seem to be shouting really loudly about the fact that they have a place in gaming. Over and over again.
You know, when people complain about sexism in games, they're really pointing out how our media reflects underlying societal mindsets that we're not always aware of. For example, the number of jokes about prison rape in our media reflects that we don't see it (prison rape) as a serious issue.
So things like the whole "but there are bigger problems" spiel don't really hold up under scrutiny as a point in an argument. Especially not when you don't see the irony of saying that while spending a lot of energy arguing about it...
On another note, I think that the gaming press is really shooting themselves in the foot. By making the scandal about Quinn and Sarkeesian, they're ultimately exacerbating the problem they're railing against, when the ones who deserved the scorn in the first place were Kotaku, for their disgusting ethical failure.
I don't think so.. Sarkeesian, regardless of what you think of her, got fvcking death threats and vile crap to the point she felt unsafe in her own home.. What kind of fvcking man-child sends death threats to some one because they are critical of something they like? This needed to happen, to shame these pricks that you can't fvcking do that sh!t anymore.. They are a embarrassment to the gaming community and it reflects negatively on everyone in the community.
Oh, not making excuses for that. I just think the "gaming press" is responsible in part for directing said manchildren at a convenient scapegoat, rather than owning up to their own failings.
Because that managed to allow them to turn it into a bitchfest about feminism and whatever, rather than what this was really about in the first place: ethics in journalism.
Of course, the other side did no favors by taking the first opportunity to go after Quinn.
.... Seriously, if people didn't realize that gaming journalism was shady as hell for years now, then you have no one but your selves to blame.. Stop going to those sites, and stop buying into the hype of video games and pre-ordering the sh!t before it's even released. The only way this stuff is going to end is if people stop looking at it and listening.
.... Seriously, if people didn't realize that gaming journalism was shady as hell for years now, then you have no one but your selves to blame.. Stop going to those sites, and stop buying into the hype of video games and pre-ordering the sh!t before it's even released. The only way this stuff is going to end is if people stop looking at it and listening.
What's wrong with people learning through this about gaming journalism corruption? Why blame people for not knowing about it before? You speak like they had the obligation to know. It would be a safe guess that you know of corruption schemes going on elsewhere that I don't know about, I know of some you don't. I see no reason to blame each other for that.
@sSubZerOo said:
I don't think so.. Sarkeesian, regardless of what you think of her, got fvcking death threats and vile crap to the point she felt unsafe in her own home.. What kind of fvcking man-child sends death threats to some one because they are critical of something they like? This needed to happen, to shame these pricks that you can't fvcking do that sh!t anymore.. They are a embarrassment to the gaming community and it reflects negatively on everyone in the community.
This needed to happen? You mean, attacking a stereotype, affecting the whole audience, in order to shame "these pricks"? Would you shame all Ferguson protesters and demonstrators because of some that robbed some stores? This makes no sense. Sounds like opportunism for hate-speech for me. Attacks made in a generalized, stereotyped way that's bound to make injustice to the ones it's directed at ends up being hate-speech.
Edit: thought I'd link this for everyone interested in an article that tries to explain the gamers side of the story. Seemed fairly unbiased, especially comparing with the tone of the other articles out there.
It's disgusting how people treated Zoe, Anita and even Phil no matter what they may or may not have done... but this backlash on the word "gamer" is a bit much. Get mad at the ass hats who are being ass hats... don't drag everyone else who enjoys games into it too.
It's disgusting how people treated Zoe, Anita and even Phil no matter what they may or may not have done... but this backlash on the word "gamer" is a bit much. Get mad at the ass hats who are being ass hats... don't drag everyone else who enjoys games into it too.
It's disgusting how people treated Zoe, Anita and even Phil no matter what they may or may not have done... but this backlash on the word "gamer" is a bit much. Get mad at the ass hats who are being ass hats... don't drag everyone else who enjoys games into it too.
Man I don't know. There is danger to be labelled sexist every time you question a woman (Not a problem in my country, but a lot of it on the internet), but after reading this entire article I'm not sure about the legitimacy of Anita's threats. I don't deny them but I'm not accepting them either.
It's disgusting how people treated Zoe, Anita and even Phil no matter what they may or may not have done... but this backlash on the word "gamer" is a bit much. Get mad at the ass hats who are being ass hats... don't drag everyone else who enjoys games into it too.
Man I don't know. There is danger to be labelled sexist every time you question a woman (Not a problem in my country, but a lot of it on the internet), but after reading this entire article I'm not sure about the legitimacy of Anita's threats. I don't deny them but I'm not accepting them either.
It's disgusting how people treated Zoe, Anita and even Phil no matter what they may or may not have done... but this backlash on the word "gamer" is a bit much. Get mad at the ass hats who are being ass hats... don't drag everyone else who enjoys games into it too.
Man I don't know. There is danger to be labelled sexist every time you question a woman (Not a problem in my country, but a lot of it on the internet), but after reading this entire article I'm not sure about the legitimacy of Anita's threats. I don't deny them but I'm not accepting them either.
They're all attention whores manipulating people to get money and fame.
Who women? That's a terrible thing to say.
I've never heard of women having trouble in the gaming industry. I'm not saying they didn't, it's just that I never heard about it. Like a developers having troubles advancing or getting a job or harassement because the're women .They've been there since gaming conception, shaping it even though in few numbers. No sure why they're trying to spin it as the gaming industry or gamers hating female developers.
About Zoe yeah, she's trying desperately to stay relevant and play a victim. She tweeted an anonymous 4chan post saying how they should harass and doxx her. Hundreds of retweets
While in fact, there were five responses to that post all telling her to **** off, and then the post was deleted by a mod.
It's disgusting how people treated Zoe, Anita and even Phil no matter what they may or may not have done... but this backlash on the word "gamer" is a bit much. Get mad at the ass hats who are being ass hats... don't drag everyone else who enjoys games into it too.
Man I don't know. There is danger to be labelled sexist every time you question a woman (Not a problem in my country, but a lot of it on the internet), but after reading this entire article I'm not sure about the legitimacy of Anita's threats. I don't deny them but I'm not accepting them either.
They're all attention whores manipulating people to get money and fame.
Who women? That's a terrible thing to say. But I know Zoe tried to do it today.
I've never heard of women having trouble in the gaming industry. I'm not saying they didn't, it's just that I never heard about it. They've been there since gaming conception, shaping it even though in few numbers. No sure why they're trying to spin it as the gaming industry or gamers hating female developers.
About Zoe yeah, she's trying desperately to stay relevant and play a victim. She tweeted an anonymous 4chan post saying how they should harass and doxx her. Hundreds of retweets
While in fact, there were five responses to that post all telling her to **** off, and then the post was deleted by a mod.
Wow, it's still hard to believe it's even an issue anymore. Women have been established gamers and no longer a myth for years now, and it's just sad that this kind of thing can still be an issue. Threatening criminal activity over such things just shows the kind of person they are, if you are willing to commit a crime over a video game and actually harm them then you need a serious wake up call to the real words and learn how to seperate gaming, which is a form of entertainment, over real life. Thankfully most of these disturbed people are eventually locked up and removed from society, although sadly it's not before innocent are hurt most of the time. Regardless of sex, race, or orientation we all have the right to be entertained, and if you don't like a game because it has elements that make you feel uncomfortable or otherwise able to be entertained then move on, and find something that fits your needs, desires and wants to fulfill your entertainment. It's just a shame the number of people that still lack that level of basic common sense, intelligence and decency.
Willing to commit a crime is different than tweeting about it. How many women have been killed over gaming again? How many developers in general have been killed over gaming? Any journalists?
Jack Thompson got death threats. He's suing Kotaku over ones right now. He had studies about video games and critique about video games. Where were you outraged people then.
@Revan_911: Just the threat is a crime... thankfully most of the time that is all they are
Anita said she contacted the police before she tweeted about it while fleeing her house. These police calls should be public domain yet no one was able to track down that call.
After people called her out she tweeted that Police don't know how to handle tweeter threats. And they didn't take her seriosly.
While the fact that Anita is getting threats is in no way acceptable, maybe if she stops the bullshit and focus on an actual issue she would attract less trolls. I'm all for better representation of women in games, but holy crap have you seen her videos? Absolutely ridiculous stuff..
@Revan_911 said:
@double_decker:
>>Willing to commit a crime
Willing to commit a crime is different than tweeting about it. How many women have been killed over gaming again? How many developers in general have been killed over gaming? Any journalists?
Jack Thompson got death threats. He's suing Kotaku over ones right now. He had studies about video games and critique about video games. Where were you outraged people then.
Yeah exactly! He was using the same kind of nonsense and people laughed at him.. He got death threats and no one cared. But if you call out a woman for doing the same thing, you're sexist.. >_>
While the fact that Anita is getting threats is in no way acceptable, maybe if she stops the bullshit and focus on an actual issue she would attract less trolls. I'm all for better representation of women in games, but holy crap have you seen her videos? Absolutely ridiculous stuff..
@Revan_911 said:
@double_decker:
>>Willing to commit a crime
Willing to commit a crime is different than tweeting about it. How many women have been killed over gaming again? How many developers in general have been killed over gaming? Any journalists?
Jack Thompson got death threats. He's suing Kotaku over ones right now. He had studies about video games and critique about video games. Where were you outraged people then.
Yeah exactly! He was using the same kind of nonsense and people laughed at him.. He got death threats and no one cared. But if you call out a woman for doing the same thing, you're sexist.. >_>
Call me sexist but this is it. This is what it's about. Two women who have been proven dishonest and manipulative are making a circus out of the video game industry. Backed up by video game journalists. And they are afraid to call them out on their bullshit because they're women. Because they are afraid to be labeled as sexist.
.... Seriously, if people didn't realize that gaming journalism was shady as hell for years now, then you have no one but your selves to blame.. Stop going to those sites, and stop buying into the hype of video games and pre-ordering the sh!t before it's even released. The only way this stuff is going to end is if people stop looking at it and listening.
What's wrong with people learning through this about gaming journalism corruption? Why blame people for not knowing about it before? You speak like they had the obligation to know. It would be a safe guess that you know of corruption schemes going on elsewhere that I don't know about, I know of some you don't. I see no reason to blame each other for that.
@sSubZerOo said:
I don't think so.. Sarkeesian, regardless of what you think of her, got fvcking death threats and vile crap to the point she felt unsafe in her own home.. What kind of fvcking man-child sends death threats to some one because they are critical of something they like? This needed to happen, to shame these pricks that you can't fvcking do that sh!t anymore.. They are a embarrassment to the gaming community and it reflects negatively on everyone in the community.
This needed to happen? You mean, attacking a stereotype, affecting the whole audience, in order to shame "these pricks"? Would you shame all Ferguson protesters and demonstrators because of some that robbed some stores? This makes no sense. Sounds like opportunism for hate-speech for me. Attacks made in a generalized, stereotyped way that's bound to make injustice to the ones it's directed at ends up being hate-speech.
Edit: thought I'd link this for everyone interested in an article that tries to explain the gamers side of the story. Seemed fairly unbiased, especially comparing with the tone of the other articles out there.
Because you have either been under a rock or have a low IQ to not put together "gaming journalism" is corrupt.. The main purpose of gaming journalism is buyer guide and hype meter to ultimately generate sales for the products they are reviewing.. You can't come to me and act this ignorant that this is some how HUGE AND new from the sh!t that has been going on for years.. If you think that way, then it is you who is apart of the problem.. One of the many dopes who gush over previews and hyping of video games that generate revenue by devs so they can give you their shitty games.. Honestly I couldn't give a **** about what ones I "don't" know because it's irrelevant.. You want to do something about it? Stop going to their damned sites, stop prepurchasing games, STOP listening and looking at the shit..
And what happened to the entire Ferguson protests due to them? Nada, things like the looting and rioters poisoned the well of any support any one had outside of the community, and the protesters only defense was saying "it's not us!".. This isn't going to work, crying out foul about stereotypes (lol using hate speech for video games, hilarious) isn't gonna have the affect you want when one only need to look online at the numerous rampant awful things that are said.. No one is going to take your side when one side writes a mildly amusing article using stereotypes while the other is getting threats of rape, violence and death.. As I said before, you want to do something about it? STOP consuming the shit they feed you.. They are only in business because dopes like you are looking at it..
Because you have either been under a rock or have a low IQ to not put together "gaming journalism" is corrupt.. The main purpose of gaming journalism is buyer guide and hype meter to ultimately generate sales for the products they are reviewing.. You can't come to me and act this ignorant that this is some how HUGE AND new from the sh!t that has been going on for years.. If you think that way, then it is you who is apart of the problem.. One of the many dopes who gush over previews and hyping of video games that generate revenue by devs so they can give you their shitty games.. Honestly I couldn't give a **** about what ones I "don't" know because it's irrelevant.. You want to do something about it? Stop going to their damned sites, stop prepurchasing games, STOP listening and looking at the shit..
And what happened to the entire Ferguson protests due to them? Nada, things like the looting and rioters poisoned the well of any support any one had outside of the community, and the protesters only defense was saying "it's not us!".. This isn't going to work, crying out foul about stereotypes (lol using hate speech for video games, hilarious) isn't gonna have the affect you want when one only need to look online at the numerous rampant awful things that are said.. No one is going to take your side when one side writes a mildly amusing article using stereotypes while the other is getting threats of rape, violence and death.. As I said before, you want to do something about it? STOP consuming the shit they feed you.. They are only in business because dopes like you are looking at it..
You're saying that people that didn't think that way before this are simply dumb? That's how you dismiss discussion about it? No one has the obligation to be aware of the issues that surfaced here. I was already discussing corruption in this media way before the K&L Jeff Gerstmann episode, and before the famous Dan "Shoe" Hsu article about corruption in games 'journalism' but I wouldn't insult people for wanting to talk about it. And certainly wouldn't block the discussion with prevaricating arguments like most are doing.
One side uses mildly amusing articles? I guess you missed the hate campaign they employed on twitter, before, concomitant to and still after those articles (not to mention how offensive the articles themselves are). Journalists, bloggers and even some small time developers themselves freely offending anyone that deemed him/herself a gamer. Look (though this guy later apologized, after taking the basic effort of looking into what the discussion actually was about):
There are many other examples. And then there was the #describeagamerin4words, so that their readers could vent the discourse they were selling. A few examples of what came out of it:
Feel free to see what more was said under that hashtag. Recently it's being hijacked by positive comments from those supporting #notyourshield.
Feel free to search for more about the public harassment that went on (and is still going it seems) coming from the side you're sanctifying.
Also, for the last point in your post: that's the purpose of all this. You think people are spreading what they know about this for what?
Because you have either been under a rock or have a low IQ to not put together "gaming journalism" is corrupt.. The main purpose of gaming journalism is buyer guide and hype meter to ultimately generate sales for the products they are reviewing.. You can't come to me and act this ignorant that this is some how HUGE AND new from the sh!t that has been going on for years.. If you think that way, then it is you who is apart of the problem.. One of the many dopes who gush over previews and hyping of video games that generate revenue by devs so they can give you their shitty games.. Honestly I couldn't give a **** about what ones I "don't" know because it's irrelevant.. You want to do something about it? Stop going to their damned sites, stop prepurchasing games, STOP listening and looking at the shit..
And what happened to the entire Ferguson protests due to them? Nada, things like the looting and rioters poisoned the well of any support any one had outside of the community, and the protesters only defense was saying "it's not us!".. This isn't going to work, crying out foul about stereotypes (lol using hate speech for video games, hilarious) isn't gonna have the affect you want when one only need to look online at the numerous rampant awful things that are said.. No one is going to take your side when one side writes a mildly amusing article using stereotypes while the other is getting threats of rape, violence and death.. As I said before, you want to do something about it? STOP consuming the shit they feed you.. They are only in business because dopes like you are looking at it..
You're saying that people that didn't think that way before this are simply dumb? That's how you dismiss discussion about it? No one has the obligation to be aware of the issues that surfaced here. I was already discussing corruption in this media way before the K&L Jeff Gerstmann episode, and before the famous Dan "Shoe" Hsu article about corruption in games 'journalism' but I wouldn't insult people for wanting to talk about it. And certainly wouldn't block the discussion with prevaricating arguments like most are doing.
One side uses mildly amusing articles? I guess you missed the hate campaign they employed on twitter, before, concomitant to and still after those articles (not to mention how offensive the articles themselves are). Journalists, bloggers and even some small time developers themselves freely offending anyone that deemed him/herself a gamer. Look (though this guy later apologized, after taking the basic effort of looking into what the discussion actually was about):
There are many other examples. And then there was the #describeagamerin4words, so that their readers could vent the discourse they were selling. A few examples of what came out of it:
Feel free to see what more was said under that hashtag. Recently it's being hijacked by positive comments from those supporting #notyourshield.
Feel free to search for more about the public harassment that went on (and is still going it seems) coming from the side you're sanctifying.
Also, for the last point in your post: that's the purpose of all this. You think people are spreading what they know about this for what?
This is what I don't get they spew toxic hateful comments like the idiots who attack anita and yet somehow its justifiable. And why is the entirety of the gaming community being judged because of a few toxic idiots? If I judged all muslims, all 1 billion of them based off ISIS or all feminist based off the crazy man hating ones I am sure those groups would be up in arms as that a pretty sh*tty thing to do.
What ever happened to gaming just being gaming? Why does a persons sexuality, race or gender have to be wrapped up in it? Why hasn't a tall, blonde, German been the main character of a Grand Theft Auto game? I'm going to stomp my feet and throw a fit now. ......lol
Why cant we all just shut the **** up and play games?
I see the people who complain about women wanting better characters representing us in games, say this same thing.... And yet, they are not following their own advice. They respond by complaining that adding strong female, LGBT or black characters is somehow ruining their games. Why is that? What happened to just enjoying the games? ;O)
I have not read a single comment like that in all my time on the internet.
At least on GameSpot, what I have read was the huge demand for intriguing characters instead of catering to one race, gender, or sexual orientation. If that means expanding the targeted demographics through new types of characters then that is what will be accepted.
However, I would not be surprised if there actually are individuals who would literally take offense at what is being proposed because of the fact that minorities are going to be represented more.
Then you clearly must live in a cave and don't pay attention to what goes on. The examples of males being angry about strong female characters are endless. There have been plenty of those arguments made on here since I started posted here. Look at the Tomb Raider issue. Many males were upset because of the changes and accused the devs of bowing down to the "feminist agenda." And remember the Battlefield 3 incident when people were upset about one of the characters being changed from white to black? The devs were accused of bowing down to the "PC Police." Remember the gay controversy from mass effect 3? The devs were accused of once again bowing to the pc police. LOL
I do not believe that. Also, I dislike how you focused on one part of my comment when it is all relevant to this conversation.
Don't believe what? If you don't believe any of those things happened, feel free to research them. Google is your friend.
For example, if you want to know about the black/white BF3 controversy then feel free to go to the Battlefield forum and type "black medic" in the search. Enjoy the endless complaints about it.
Here is a funny Battlefield Friends video they did involving the black/white controversy on BF3.
I do not believe that the examples are endless and I think this situation is being exacerbated by exaggeration. Yes, there are misogynists, racists, and many other individuals who say and do evil things who happen to play video games. In my experience, they have been a vocal minority.
This is an important issue and equally crucial to addressing it at all is giving it proper representation. Unless you clarify, it seems like you and others are saying the majority of video game players are these people. Again, I am asserting that is not true and we need clarity in this type of situation because it is easy to stereotype.
No, they are not even close to being a small minority but I also never said that most gamers are like that. I said a large percentage. Neither of us obviously knows exactly how many there are but based on my own experience, I would guess probably about 35% of the gaming community right now. No offense but some of you seem to live in a bubble and just aren't seeing what many of us see every day.
@MuD3 said:
Ahh... one of the aforementioned ass hats.
Don't even waste time on him. I stopped responding to his stupidity already. I'm sure it won't be long before he manages to get himself banned and then he will cry about censorship. LOL
You know, when people complain about sexism in games, they're really pointing out how our media reflects underlying societal mindsets that we're not always aware of. For example, the number of jokes about prison rape in our media reflects that we don't see it (prison rape) as a serious issue.
So things like the whole "but there are bigger problems" spiel don't really hold up under scrutiny as a point in an argument. Especially not when you don't see the irony of saying that while spending a lot of energy arguing about it...
On another note, I think that the gaming press is really shooting themselves in the foot. By making the scandal about Quinn and Sarkeesian, they're ultimately exacerbating the problem they're railing against, when the ones who deserved the scorn in the first place were Kotaku, for their disgusting ethical failure.
I don't think so.. Sarkeesian, regardless of what you think of her, got fvcking death threats and vile crap to the point she felt unsafe in her own home.. What kind of fvcking man-child sends death threats to some one because they are critical of something they like? This needed to happen, to shame these pricks that you can't fvcking do that sh!t anymore.. They are a embarrassment to the gaming community and it reflects negatively on everyone in the community.
I couldn't agree more. But i'm not sure you can shame the kind of sociopath who does things like that.
What ever happened to gaming just being gaming? Why does a persons sexuality, race or gender have to be wrapped up in it? Why hasn't a tall, blonde, German been the main character of a Grand Theft Auto game? I'm going to stomp my feet and throw a fit now. ......lol
Why cant we all just shut the **** up and play games?
I see the people who complain about women wanting better characters representing us in games, say this same thing.... And yet, they are not following their own advice. They respond by complaining that adding strong female, LGBT or black characters is somehow ruining their games. Why is that? What happened to just enjoying the games? ;O)
I have not read a single comment like that in all my time on the internet.
At least on GameSpot, what I have read was the huge demand for intriguing characters instead of catering to one race, gender, or sexual orientation. If that means expanding the targeted demographics through new types of characters then that is what will be accepted.
However, I would not be surprised if there actually are individuals who would literally take offense at what is being proposed because of the fact that minorities are going to be represented more.
Then you clearly must live in a cave and don't pay attention to what goes on. The examples of males being angry about strong female characters are endless. There have been plenty of those arguments made on here since I started posted here. Look at the Tomb Raider issue. Many males were upset because of the changes and accused the devs of bowing down to the "feminist agenda." And remember the Battlefield 3 incident when people were upset about one of the characters being changed from white to black? The devs were accused of bowing down to the "PC Police." Remember the gay controversy from mass effect 3? The devs were accused of once again bowing to the pc police. LOL
I do not believe that. Also, I dislike how you focused on one part of my comment when it is all relevant to this conversation.
Don't believe what? If you don't believe any of those things happened, feel free to research them. Google is your friend.
For example, if you want to know about the black/white BF3 controversy then feel free to go to the Battlefield forum and type "black medic" in the search. Enjoy the endless complaints about it.
Here is a funny Battlefield Friends video they did involving the black/white controversy on BF3.
I do not believe that the examples are endless and I think this situation is being exacerbated by exaggeration. Yes, there are misogynists, racists, and many other individuals who say and do evil things who happen to play video games. In my experience, they have been a vocal minority.
This is an important issue and equally crucial to addressing it at all is giving it proper representation. Unless you clarify, it seems like you and others are saying the majority of video game players are these people. Again, I am asserting that is not true and we need clarity in this type of situation because it is easy to stereotype.
No, they are not even close to being a small minority but I also never said that most gamers are like that. I said a large percentage. Neither of us obviously knows exactly how many there are but based on my own experience, I would guess probably about 35% of the gaming community right now. No offense but some of you seem to live in a bubble and just aren't seeing what many of us see every day.
@MuD3 said:
Ahh... one of the aforementioned ass hats.
Don't even waste time on him. I stopped responding to his stupidity already. I'm sure it won't be long before he manages to get himself banned and then he will cry about censorship. LOL
She responds to me all the time. LOL. :O), putting this in my blog #troll
What ever happened to gaming just being gaming? Why does a persons sexuality, race or gender have to be wrapped up in it? Why hasn't a tall, blonde, German been the main character of a Grand Theft Auto game? I'm going to stomp my feet and throw a fit now. ......lol
Why cant we all just shut the **** up and play games?
I see the people who complain about women wanting better characters representing us in games, say this same thing.... And yet, they are not following their own advice. They respond by complaining that adding strong female, LGBT or black characters is somehow ruining their games. Why is that? What happened to just enjoying the games? ;O)
I have not read a single comment like that in all my time on the internet.
At least on GameSpot, what I have read was the huge demand for intriguing characters instead of catering to one race, gender, or sexual orientation. If that means expanding the targeted demographics through new types of characters then that is what will be accepted.
However, I would not be surprised if there actually are individuals who would literally take offense at what is being proposed because of the fact that minorities are going to be represented more.
Then you clearly must live in a cave and don't pay attention to what goes on. The examples of males being angry about strong female characters are endless. There have been plenty of those arguments made on here since I started posted here. Look at the Tomb Raider issue. Many males were upset because of the changes and accused the devs of bowing down to the "feminist agenda." And remember the Battlefield 3 incident when people were upset about one of the characters being changed from white to black? The devs were accused of bowing down to the "PC Police." Remember the gay controversy from mass effect 3? The devs were accused of once again bowing to the pc police. LOL
I do not believe that. Also, I dislike how you focused on one part of my comment when it is all relevant to this conversation.
Don't believe what? If you don't believe any of those things happened, feel free to research them. Google is your friend.
For example, if you want to know about the black/white BF3 controversy then feel free to go to the Battlefield forum and type "black medic" in the search. Enjoy the endless complaints about it.
Here is a funny Battlefield Friends video they did involving the black/white controversy on BF3.
I do not believe that the examples are endless and I think this situation is being exacerbated by exaggeration. Yes, there are misogynists, racists, and many other individuals who say and do evil things who happen to play video games. In my experience, they have been a vocal minority.
This is an important issue and equally crucial to addressing it at all is giving it proper representation. Unless you clarify, it seems like you and others are saying the majority of video game players are these people. Again, I am asserting that is not true and we need clarity in this type of situation because it is easy to stereotype.
No, they are not even close to being a small minority but I also never said that most gamers are like that. I said a large percentage. Neither of us obviously knows exactly how many there are but based on my own experience, I would guess probably about 35% of the gaming community right now. No offense but some of you seem to live in a bubble and just aren't seeing what many of us see every day.
@MuD3 said:
Ahh... one of the aforementioned ass hats.
Don't even waste time on him. I stopped responding to his stupidity already. I'm sure it won't be long before he manages to get himself banned and then he will cry about censorship. LOL
If you are referring to the United States demographics, let's do some math.
According to census.gov, as of 12:09:00 AM Central Time 9/5/2014, there were approximately 318,812,714 people living in the United States.
According to the Electronic Software Association 2014 Essential Facts, we have the following information to base some of our information from:
Fifty-nine percent of Americans play video games which means approximately 188,099,501.3 people. Next, fifty-two percent of video game players are male, so that means approximately 97,811,740.66 is the current number we are looking at. After that, we will enter your approximation based on whatever it is you utilized: thirty-five percent. Also, thirty-five percent of fifty-two percent is eighteen percent than twenty percent of all gamers in America.
Thirty-five percent of 97,811,740.66 is 34,234,109.23 which is the number of individuals who supposedly this topic is about and because of them the term "gamer" is being demonized. If your guess is correct, that sixty million plus males are being grouped together like this unfairly and those doing so should be ashamed of themselves. What you seem to be saying at this point is the unscrupulous group is not a small amount and you are right in the sense that thirty-four million people is a big number, but when the total of all doing the same activity is nearly six times that number it can be said that your accusations are focused on a vocal minority.
We have not even talked about the total number of internet users accessing the American internet infrastructure and who comments at all for public viewing.
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