Doctor Who series 8 discussion *SPOILERS*

The new Doctor is finally here!

I loved the episode. It's always hard to get used to things after a regeneration, but Capaldi fits right away in the role. The villain wasn't really great or anything, but I think the episode did a fantastic job with setting up the new Doctor. There was also a pretty good amount of humor in there, even Strax was funny. :D And the phone call scene was just perfect IMO.

As for the new intro.. The new theme was great, I really liked it. But the intro itself had too many things going on.

So, what did you guys think?

Wondering what all the obnoxious anti-Moffat people thought.

I really liked it. Capaldi is going to be amazing. Feels much more Baker-esque, which is awesome, and very much needed after Smith and Tennant. He is definitely darker, but still funny, just in a clever way. Only issue I had was some of the slap-stick stuff (i.e. newspaper to the face) - one of the reasons I think Vastra, Jenny and Strax need their own show. Love, love, love their characters, but they're really goofy at times and I don't think they'll fit too well with Capaldi's Doctor.

Very interested in where the series goes from here. Especially interested in who the hell that Missy woman was at the very end.

The thing that kinda annoyed me about Tennant or Matt Smith was they seemed so overconfident and smug that they never really felt in danger.

Was quite surprised by how graphic it was for a children's show. He outright says he might have to kill him. The key word being "kill" as opposed to a softened word like "destroy" or "stop". Likewise it doesn't seem to tell you if robot man jumped or was pushed.

Capaldi was good. I think he will probably be better than the last two. Also I liked he didn't hide his Scottish accent like Tennant.

I'm already starting to see some stupid complaints on twitter, but people seem to generally like it.

Are there no more DW fans left in OT? :/

Here... Didn't like the episode. :( except for the last part. The new opening is awesome though.

It was fantastic I thought. The new Doctor reminds me a lot of the old doctors, particularly the 4th doctor. I'm excited to see a doctor that's a little more mature and a little less human then the previous 2. So far it's off to a great start. Can't wait for the rest of the season. Although sad to see that Jenna might be leaving the show at the end of the seasons. She's only been on the show for a handful of episodes. I guess it's hard to replace beloved companions such as Amy and Rory, happened after Billie Piper left the show as well.

My biggest issue with Clara, although I like the character and the actress, is that she is too independent. That seems like a weird complaint but like with Amy and Rose, I prefer a companion who is sort of "lost" and searching for something more. Clara seems up for weekend adventures and then goes off back to her own life once Monday comes around, so to speak. Clara should have left once her "Impossible Girl" arc ended. I feel like the only reason she is still around is because Capaldi's Doctor is so out of touch/disoriented they needed him to start his run with a companion who already knew the Doctor, and could help him find his footing.

How I wish Capaldi could do a few episodes with Donna in future episodes...she clashed enough with Tennant, lord knows how she'd handle Capaldi.

First half bored me. Not interested in Madame Vashta and the others. Second half was more interesting.

Since we're apparently talking about companions, Donna's still my favorite of the new series stuffs. She was funny. Had a personality. Called the Doctor out on shit.

I quite liked it, I always suffer from the "This guy won't be as good as the last Doctor" syndrome, but so far I warmed up to all of them within the first episode and this was no exception.

Make the doctor American and have him always walk around with stars and stripes flag wrapped around him. Do wonders.

it'll take some getting used to like other regenerations. the dinosaur was terribly out of proportion assuming it actually came from earth... it coughed up the tardis like it was a jolly rancher.

not a fan of the new intro either, the music doesn't seem right anymore.

I completely agree about her being too independent, but there was also her not being Amy. Eleven and Amy were so great together, that having him with anyone that's not Amy was just.. wrong.

This is why I loved that Amy made an appearance right before his regeneration.

The dinosaur wasn't needed IMO, should of started from when they were in the restaurant. Could take that more seriously, I prefer it when it is serious. That is why I also do not like the sontaran and the two lesbians, can't take them seriously at all. I think the lizard woman on her own would suit me because that is a character that i think could work, she has her good moments.

Capaldi was great, the intro music was not. Clockwork people and the general feel of it after half way through was good though. For a first episode it was great.

I think it would probably work with just Clara and Doctor like previous series. allows for better story building between the two and less distractions, those were the best parts of the first episode IMO or the doctor on his own.

i liked the t-rex....good way to kick off the series. not many characters get to make their enterance by having their ship get hocked up by a super sized t-rex :P.

hard to say how capaldi will fare after just one episode. matt smiths first episode was also a bit hard to call on the new doctory front. it can take time for an actor to grow into the role (as smith did..he was excellent by the end). hes a good actor though (a legend in the thick of it) so im sure he will grow into it.

dont like the new intro music though. nice visuals but it sounds like a cat in a lot of distress.

overall a good start to the season imho.

It was a better send-off for the character than "thbbbbt! Now they're dead!"

I was so happy they did that!

Any theories about who the woman at the end is? I heard some people saying it could be the master, which is really interesting..

Be a bit weird having the master proclaiming he's his girlfriend and that he loves him. Don't think that's the case.

The lady playing her though is pretty much always cast as off the wall unhinged characters. Shes fairly good at it.

I'm gonna say it's probably a new character we haven't seen yet. Who through use of time travel somehow becomes associated with the doctor and becomes the main overarching series antagonist.

I have heard it is the Rani, who was a Time Lord cast out of Gallifrey because of crazy research she did. Could be that the place in the end was her TARDIS, and she is using foes of the Doctor for some crazy experiment. One clue it could be her - one plot device in her appearances in the earlier series was Tyrannosaurus embryos.

Some think it is another version of River, which wouldn't make sense. We basically saw her from birth to death.

One logical theory is that it may be another echo of Clara from the Doctor's time stream. She is older, and possibly went a bit mad. A lot of 'Deep Breath' focuses on people thinking Clara views the Doctor as her boyfriend, which she refutes. Maybe this version of her actually does.

My own crazy theory, that I wish - but doubt - were true is that it is another female incarnation of the TARDIS, like in the episode 'The Doctor's Wife'. She was a bit quirky; maybe what we saw was some internal storage system in the TARDIS.

Oooh, those are great! I really like the Clara theory. :D

Yeah but.. that would be boring. :P

Should just make this the official 'Doctor Who' Series 8 discussion post.

'Into the Dalek' was pretty damn amazing if you ask me. The tone was EXACTLY what I wanted and hoped 'Doctor Who' would be with Capaldi as the Doctor. Mature, dark, surreal - still fun and adventurous, but no more quirk or whimsy. I love, love, love the way the last two episodes have explored the true nature of the new Doctor. 'Deep Breathe' had the moment at the end in which it seems like this Doctor finally "admitted" to the fact that he is willing to flat out kill if necessary; and this episode went deeper into the fact that this Doctor is much darker than the three that came before him - that as much as he may love and praise the universe and its inhabitants, there is darkness in him - something that Eleven seemed to try to be running from. Really sheds light on a theme that has been under the surface, but not explored too thoroughly in the series, that the Doctor is (hypocritically) exactly the sort of person he so often hates.

Also, the Doctor kicking open the TARDIS door is one of my favorite moments of his in recent memory.

@SaintLeonidas said:

Should just make this the official 'Doctor Who' Series 8 discussion post.

'Into the Dalek' was pretty damn amazing if you ask me. The tone was EXACTLY what I wanted and hoped 'Doctor Who' would be with Capaldi as the Doctor. Mature, dark, surreal - still fun and adventurous, but no more quirk or whimsy. I love, love, love the way the last two episodes have explored the true nature of the new Doctor. 'Deep Breathe' had the moment at the end in which it seems like this Doctor finally "admitted" to the fact that he is willing to flat out kill if necessary; and this episode went deeper into the fact that this Doctor is much darker than the three that came before him - that as much as he may love and praise the universe and its inhabitants, there is darkness in him - something that Eleven seemed to try to be running from. Really sheds light on a theme that has been under the surface, but not explored too thoroughly in the series, that the Doctor is (hypocritically) exactly the sort of person he so often hates.

Also, the Doctor kicking open the TARDIS door is one of my favorite moments of his in recent memory.

I didn't really like the plot. I mean, the Dalek was being nice because it was broken, what did they expect fixing him to do exactly? >_>
However, I agree with all the points you said, so the plot didn't really matter. :P I love all the new themes they're exploring, if they keep it up this season is gonna be incredible. Also that Pink guy is awesome, I can't wait until he meets the Doctor. :D

I didn't mind the actual plot. The way I viewed it was the Doctor was sort of hoping that this Dalek was actually good, and that after the crack was sealed he hoped the damage was already done and that 'Rusty' wouldn't change back. He of course was wrong, mostly. I did like how it managed to actually tell a unique Dalek story. They have sort of lost a lot of their original mystique - I know Moffat even avoided them in series 6. Used to be that only a few of them was a worthy/scary foe; but it got to the point in which the Doctor had no problem taking down freaking armies of them. It was nice to have them actually feel like a threat.

Very excited to see how Mr. Pink's story plays out. His introduction was great. You initially think he is going to be some tough soldier, but he ends up being totally awkward. Will be interesting to see what the Doctor thinks of him, especially after his remark to the female solider that wanted to go with him. Also glad that he definitely has some sort of back story (when he teared up about being asked if he killed anyone who wasn't an enemy soldier) that they can explore to flesh him out.

Interesting to see 'Missy' show up again. She clearly isn't just interacting with villains of the Doctor.

Oh yeah. He didn't get a lot of screen time, yet they managed to tell us so much about him. I already like him.

Yeah so she's not collecting villains to release them all at once or whatever.

Last night's episode "Listen" might just be one of the best Doctor Who episodes in a very long time. Created such a chilling atmosphere; and ended on a wonderfully emotional note that managed to explore the Doctor's past and motivations in a way no other episode in recent seasons has been able to do.

Yes, it was a fantastic episode! I loved how we never found out what the thing on the bed was.. Because not knowing made it really creepy, and most importantly, it was not the point the episode was trying to make.
And then there's also how Clara describes the plastic soldier to Dan as "A soldier so brave he doesn't need a gun, he can keep the whole world safe", and then gives it to the young Doctor. Great stuff there. :D

Instead of making a new thread I thought I'd just bring this one back.
Today's episode finally showed us who Missy is, and what that whole plot that's been going through the season is really about. Did you like the reveal? Were you disappointed?

It was a great episode and looking back now they totally gave the reveal away... *spoiler* -- Back in the episode where Missy is watching Clara and she says she picked well and then proceeds to throw her head back and do a sort of laugh. This laugh was incredibly similar to the laugh the master did in the Dr. Who special. So similar in fact, that looking back on it, the similarities are incredibly clear. So awesome to see a time lord who has regenerated, somehow, into a woman. Does this mean someday Dr. Who could be played by a woman as well?

Seeing peoples reaction to a female Time Lord was a bit disheartening. This is not the first female Time Lord, they have made appearances in previous series - hell, a lot of people thought Missy was The Rani, and she was a female Time Lord from the Sixth and Seventh Doctor. Also, there is no rule within the Doctor Who universe that says a Time Lord can not regenerate into a female. We've never seen it happen, and it has never happened to the Doctor, but it has been referenced to in previous episodes - and there is really no reason why a regeneration couldn't lead to a gender change.

So there were a lot of people bitching about Moffat - as per usual - saying this was some non-sense he has made up - or that it didn't fit the show - and that sort of thing.

Anyway, I thought the episode was great. Michelle Gomez's performance is so wicked and devilish...which fits the character so well. Also, it started out with an emotional bang, did not expect that and I really want to know what will become of Danny. Clara again was so great. Jenna Coleman, acting wise, just might be the most talented companion of the newer series and I REALLY hope rumors of her leaving during the Christmas special aren't true. I'd love at least one more series with her now that she has been more fully developed.

Didn't like the episode much. Not terribly interesting considering the idea's being used. Never been too big a fan of the cyber-men. Looking forward to seeing Michelle Gomez ham it up though. She generally always synonymous with playing someone unhinged.

Say, and I'm sorry if this is slightly off-topic, how would one go about getting into this franchise? I checked it a few days ago on imdb and it seems to go way back in time (the 60s I believe). Has it been at some point remade? And if so how recent?

No need going back to the first Doctor. The show had about a 10 year break from the mid-90's to 2005, and then returned starring Christopher Eccleston as the 9th Doctor. It wasn't a reboot or remake, but some view it as a relaunch. Most younger fans of the show started here, as I did. You can definitely always go back and watch earlier episodes but there is no real need - because when the Doctor "regenerates" (a new actor comes on as the next Doctor), the show usually takes some sort of shift in tone and central plot line/series arc so you could start with any new Doctor and be able to get into it rather quickly. This was perhaps never more true than with the relaunch, so start there. I believe it is still on Netflix. But...give the first few episodes a chance. It starts out slow, but once you realize that cheesy effects and ridiculous sci-fi story lines are a staple of the show - and what gives it a unique charm - then it is hard not to fall in love.

I'm ashamed to admit that I don't have much appreciation for older shows and movies, with the X-files and Seinfeld being notable exceptions. Therefore, I'll most probably start from the 2005 relaunch. If I do that I won't be interjecting myself randomly into the show right? And I'll also be able to follow the plot and make sense of it hopefully.

There were some pretty big changes to the history of the character between the 8th (from the mid-90's) and 9th (2005) Doctor that are alluded to early on in the 2005 series, but get explained in more detail as the show went on; but what it did was make it so the character was pretty much starting anew when the series relaunched. So, when you watch the 2005 relaunch it is essentially like starting a whole new show. Things will pop up - villains, characters, plot devices - from the earlier series but they are all explained.

Really didn't like Clara in this episode or what they have been doing with her character the last 3 or 4 episodes...she's just turning into a whiny brat who wants something and she wants it now and she's entitled to it "because"...I was hoping he'd kick her into the volcano (even though I knew he wouldn't) and when he told her to "Go to hell" I almost high-fived the screen...premature celebration...

Huh? No idea where you are getting this. What did she whine about or want in any of the past 3-4 episodes? Also, she had a pretty damn important and understandable reason to act that way in 'Dark Water', and I prefer when the companions stand up to the Doctor instead on being so dependent on him as they usually are.

@SaintLeonidas: Pink got hit by a car...acting like the Doctor got him killed and therefore it's his mess to clean is stupid. She didn't even try to talk to him, she went straight to "Do it or you're fucked" attitude.

She never said it was the Doctor's fault. She knew she had to be forceful with him considering what she was asking was not something he would do - especially when he has been so emotionally distant this series; and she was also trying to take control...as the Doctor told her to do in the previous episode. It is refreshing to see a companion not just go with the flow when something like this happens, or to not just hope or expect the Doctor to help. Clara is arguably the most independent of the Doctor's most recent companions and has been standing up to him this whole series - so it only makes sense that she would do it again in this episode, and do it so forcefully given the reason. Plus she knew what she was doing was wrong, it just didn't matter because she was so emotional. Even the Doctor realized this, and is why he forgave her.

@SaintLeonidas: So threatening a friend to fix your problems is being non dependent? To me it's being as dependent as it gets and being the worst sort of ass about it in the process. This series Clara has been acting as if the Doctor is some sort of plaything that she can just take a ride with when she's bored and then leave behind every time she feels like it. You know, the exact same attitude she's been having towards her boyfriend. Yeah, the Doctor is not all that much better but he's always been that way (even if he's getting slightly worse).

...again, the man she loved just died...you'd have to have a complete lack of empathy to not realize how that would make someone like Clara, after all that has happened with the development of her character this series, to try to take control of the relationship she has with the Doctor and make him change things - something she did not think he would ever do (considering his past, his attitude this series, and his apparent dislike of Danny). I would have agreed with you on her "using" the Doctor at the end of last series...but that has not been the case this series, which is why I've grown to like her so much. They've been pretty much equals all series, with her even assuming the role of the Doctor in 'Flatline'.

@SaintLeonidas: It's the whole "different strokes..." thing, I guess. I've lost people I loved and my first instinct was to make damn sure I wouldn't lose the rest of the people who cared for me and tried to bring them closer to me. Grief does not justify betrayal...in my opinion this is not an empathy issue.

No one said it was justified, both Clara and the Doctor made that clear. But it happened, there was a clear and obvious reason for it. Empathy does factor in, because you could reasonably understand why someone so emotional might lose control in the way she did. Just because YOU wouldn't doesn't mean a thing...hence why it requires empathy to see her point of view.

The fact isn't that it was a good thing - or even the right thing to do - but that it is something no other companion really has done - and it makes Clara a complex, flawed and ultimately FAR more interesting character. How boring it would be if she was just another companion who feel in line like some two dimensional side kick. Clara has been so great, and I've grown to like her so much this series, because she has been the exact opposite of that.

@SaintLeonidas: I'm glad you're enjoying it then =)

@SaintLeonidas: err...ok.