Do nice guys truly finish last?

If you want a girl, you can't always be too nice to her, otherwise you will be in the dreaded friend-zone for the rest of your life. I'm not saying you should be an Ass to her or a front of her. Girls like guys with CONFIDENCE; showing confidence has always been the key to get to a girls heart. Girls want a guy that can give them a sense of security, not by financial reasons, but someone who can protect them and listen to them as well. Having things in common is a plus, but not a requirement as having to hangout with her will put you to the friend-zone spot.

If you notice the girl having to take liking of you with certain signs, don't be hesitant to hold back and make your move. The longer you wait, the harder it is to win her heart.

Honestly I've found that losers say that to placate themselves.

LOL!

Yes they do. I stayed up 5:30 in the morning fixing a girl's laptop, and when I gave it back to her all I got was a "K, thanks, bye"... She later had the nerve to call me rude. Apparently, doing a $600 repair for free is very rude...

@darkmark91:

I would like to know more details behind this. Such as how you know her, how the problem was brought up, what was wrong with her computer, what exactly was said between the two of you... I'm curious.

I thought you were a virgin?

It is an extremely long story. I'll give the short version of it.

I was walking around my college campus and I saw this Goddess sitting alone on a bench. I couldn't give up the chance thus, I sat right next to her and got to know her. We talked for a good 30-40 min, and we hit it off really good. I got her number, then we headed our separate ways. I texted her a few days later, she never texts me back. I call her a few more days later, and she picks up saying she cant talk because she is busy. I assume she is not interested, thus I forget about her.

A couple days later I get a text from her telling me she the "ICE" virus on her laptop. (As per our first interaction she knew I majoring in IT and am very good with computers.) Thus, I thought this was my time to impress her with my mad l33t skillz...

We arrange to see each other while she promotes some school event at the Student Center. She tells me she is in dire need of getting this computer fixed since she has stuff on it to do a presentation for a conference for another University for the next day. I tell her it should be no problem since I am familiar with those types of viruses. However, her laptop seemed to have bigger problems than viruses. Her OS was corrupted, and would blue screen every 5min.... Of course she did not have a back up. I told her this was no longer a quick fix and could not help her anymore. She tells me (keep in mind I am practically a stranger to her) that I could take it home/work to finish fixing it for her.

I tell her I would need her charger to fix it because it will take a while. She tells me she can't leave her post at work. I tell her I have universal chargers at work and won't need it (but warned her that the universal was not guaranteed, and if I didn't find the time at work to fix I would not be able to take the universal home with me). Unsurprisingly, it was really busy at work so I barely touched her computer.

I call her and explained the bad news, she tells me to come to her dorm. I hornyly drive to her dorm after work (its a 45min commute btw and its 11:30 at night.) I arrive and all she does is throw her charger at me and leaves telling me she has to prepare for her conference... Not even a "thank you", or "how are you doing."

Stupidly I go home and continue working on it. I texted her 5:30am so she knows I was working my a$$ off to get this fixed for her. I still was not done, and had to continue working on it on my internship (luckily I don't do sh!t there, so I was able to finish working on it). I leave early from my internship to finally give everything back to her.

I arrive to lobby of her dorm and she (FINALLY) tells me thank you... And then says she has to go back to her dorm and get ready for her conference (which isn't for a few more hours.) I am very upset at this point, but I am still keeping my cool. I tell her, "you really can't spare me five minutes of your time?"

She responds, "I'm sorry but I am really busy, I have to go."

To which I said, "So you're just going to toss me to curb, after everything I just did for you?"

This is when she entered b!tch mode and started raising her voice at me and started rambling that what I just said was very uncalled for and very rude. Oh, and I should be ashamed of myself too... This is when I walked out (in the middle of her complaining) and went to work.

That's false. Incorrect. Untrue.

If a woman is interested in you and you're always nice to each other, that's the foundation for a great relationship.

If a woman isn't interested in you and you're always nice to them, you're just going to be a friend.

It's as simple as that. The friend-zone doesn't exist. It's a figment of the imaginations of desperate guys who pretend to be nice to women in the hopes that those women will sleep with them.

Take this guy, for example:

It's obvious from the 5th sentence that the woman wasn't romantically interested in him. "Oh noes, friend-zoned!". Well...no, it's just simple rejection. That's it.

After the dust had settled, she later asks him for practical help - presumably because he's the best IT guy she knows.

He jumps at the chance, thinking that being "nice" will get him into her pants. He goes way out of his way to help her, and she thanks him for it

Then he gets disappointed that he isn't getting sex, and pressures her about it.

She, understandably, is pissed off at him. Why wouldn't she be? She's super-busy and needs to get back to her work, while he's bitching about not getting more attention for the favour he did her, and his unwanted advances towards her are pretty clear.

...and at the end of all that, he concludes that he was only being nice and sheis the one with a problem? Seriously? After it was made totally clear that she wasn't interested in him...what could he expect? Also, why does he think he was being nice, when he couldn't even respect the fact that she actually might be really busy?

This isn't a "friend-zone" scenario, nor is it a scenario of a nice guy finishing last. From the sound of things, this guy was only being "nice" to win her over, despite the fact that she had already made it clear she wasn't interested in him. I mean, no offence, but he seems like more of an opportunist than a nice guy.

Sadly, it's stories like this that perpetuate the myths that "nice guys finish last".

The guys who finish last are the ones who completely lack a spine and who are dumb enough to keep trying to change their personality just to get a girl.

Be who you are, be confident, be kind but NOT a pushover (no woman worth a damn is going to walk away simply because you disagree on a topic) and be patient. It can be hard to find a person who gets you sometimes.

@darkmark91:

Wow, i'm sorry to hear that. The best advice i can give to you is stay away from attractive women. The position their appearance gives them in society creates a complex and general narcissistic attitude. So i'm sorry to be the one to have to break this down to you but its going to happen again, over and over if you keep chasing attractive women like that. They WILL use you for whatever they can. The general attitude in our entire society is that if a woman wants something from you, that is totally fine, but the moment you expect something, you're garbage.

See, this individual didn't even bother considering the point that perhaps a number of other things might have been acceptable besides sex. Perhaps buying you dinner, money, help with classes, real respect and gratitude instead of the obvious fake respect you were given.... It doesn't matter if you wanted sex or not, that isn't the point. She had plenty of opportunity to politely and respectfully say "Sorry, but i'm not interested in that. I can pay you for your time and work." She knew damn well what she was doing, and figured she could manipulate you into getting what she wants. A respectful person would have declined your assistance and asked for her computer back the moment you told her it was going to be a daunting task. She did NOT otherwise make it clear that she wasn't interested, that was the point. Doing so would jeopardize the possibility of her getting free service.

Well then, tell me your success stories then? You know women more than anyone here so how many girls you have dated and wanted to be with you?

it was a joke.

I'll ignore the sarcasm for a bit, so let's see...

***warning: Wall of text approaching...which may be completely pointless!***

I started off fresh out of an all-boys high school with zero social skills or knowledge of how to talk to girls (whom I'd never met). I knew I wanted a girlfriend (not so much for sex - I was a hopeless/naive romantic who had a lot of learning to do), but I had no idea how to get one.

So early on, I definitely leaned towards the desperate "no no, it's no trouble me driving you around or correcting your work or whatever you desire" mindset. Not towards everyone, obviously, but mainly towards the girl I had a crush on - because that's just the way that goes. Surprisingly enough, I was frequently confused about why I was still single. Although even then, I assumed that there was something wrong with me, rather than assuming that the girl I liked had "friendzoned" me and was simply stringing me along so that I would help her with stuff.

Six years on, she recently told me that she liked me at the time, but frequently found me annoying. It's not hard to imagine why.

Anyway, that obviously never eventuated into anything. We maintained our friendship but went our separate ways, and I was eventually foolish enough (and lonely enough) to mistake another girl's casual pick-up attempt for genuine interest. Cue my first (really bad) relationship.

As soon as that ended, I was done with relationships. I stopped imagining that people were interested in me, I stopped caring how others felt about me, I had a lot of time for self-reflection, and I just became my honest, confident self. I was completely in my element during my studies, I had a lot of friends, I wasn't worried about how I looked, and my confidence had peaked. Pretty quickly, I was getting a fair bit of interest from assorted women too - them approaching me to give me their phone numbers, inviting me to drinks/events/movies, complimenting me on random things, etc.This was even happening to people I'd met three years earlier who'd previously shown little interest in me.

It seems pretty clear in hindsight that confidence was the key. Rather than focusing my 'niceness' down laser sights towards my intended so-called "love-of-my-life" (which is creepy and off-putting), I was just confident and nice to everyone, without caring about having intentions towards them, and people were clearly drawn to that. It wasn't even deliberate, I had no control over it. I was just who I was.

Still, I was sick of relationships, so it took a couple of years before I even considered dating again. By that point, the first girl I'd ever asked out^^ (who was my best friend at the time, and who I had long since made peace with) had realised her strong feelings for me. She asked me out. We hung out a few times, it was awkward (since we were such good friends), and I was feeling guilty about hurting another girl I had been sort-of-kind-of dating. It collapsed, and my friend and I stopped talking to each other.

A year later, my going out with the other girl hadn't sparked at all. She was a great person and seemed to clearly be into me, but we just didn't click as a couple. We drifted, I began hanging out with the original girl^ again purely as a friend (she was going through a rough patch), and our relationship developed naturally from there - as if we'd hit the reset button as older, wiser people.

Two years on, and we couldn't be more in love with each other. We're pretty much certain on buying houses, marriage, kids - we can talk about anything and everything. That's not bad for something that was supposedly a "friendzone" relationship. And come to think of it, other people keep telling me what a nice boyfriend I am (even for doing things that just seem obvious to me)...so it seems to me as if nice guys *are* in high demand. Not that I'd ever really think of myself as a "nice guy" - I just think of myself as not being a complete dickhead.

Is there a message in there? I'm not sure. I do think many guys should self-assess more, and try to find confidence in who they are...rather than trying to adopt a persona that they think will impress others.

i would disagree with that. Nice guys don't lack spine mate. Females are naturally levated to "Bad boys". Just because you're nice doesn't mean you lack confidence either

@Planeforger: Well my post was about being confident. It's always a learning experience, but I have always learned to be patient to find the right one. I'm just saying the mind of girl can be hard to fight out, bit being too nice and sticking to the same girl isn't going to work in the long run. If I were the poster that gotten taken advantage, I would have never offer to fix her laptop for free and instead try to ask for a date instead. And get to know her more as a person. If she's the wrong person, I'll. Just move on until I find the right one.

Nice guys DO lack spine. Time and time again these "nice guys" who go on complaining about woman essentially NEVER make a move for the girl, and then they get pissed with some other guy with actual balls goes and gets the girl. They do all these "favors" because in their mind it will make the girl owe them and the girl will in turn enter a relationship with them. This never works and it is also horribly deceptive and not in fact a very nice thing at all.

Only girls levitate towards bad boys. Actual WOMEN might have a fling with a bad boy, but they are smart enough to not get involved in a relationship with a bad boy. No smart women wants to deal with the drama a troublemaker brings, even if it might sound exciting because of how wild it may be.

The friend zone exists but its a lot more prevalent among attractive women. Oh, and here is something else too, be careful if you are actively trying to get into the friend zone and not a relationship or sex with a woman. I'm going to talk about some of my personal experiences here so it'll probably be long. Fair warning.

I work at a company where i have very little contact with any other employees except for whoever the admin clerk is. Pretty much going to be exclusively a young female fresh out of college. That is just because my daily job requires her involvement. I'm married for over 11 years now with a four-year-old son so i'm not looking for anything from any woman, except friendship. My wife is japanese and i work for a japanese company ( a mutual friend of her's got me in this job), thus most of the employees here are also japanese including the admin because she would have to be bilingual to read corporate emails and so forth from oversees and what not. So anyway, this new girl gets the admin position and right away we start talking and having fun conversations. I think to myself "Wow this is cool, she is super nice. I'm looking forward to having someone i can talk to at work." She is very attractive and also very smart and well educated with a masters in business if 'im not mistaken. So basically, she's what you would call a hell of a catch that probably only the most top alpha male would be able to woe her. Not that it should really matter, because i wasn't looking for any sort of relationship from her anyway but i'm well aware that she would obviously be well beyond my league. She just moved to the area from out of town so she doesn't know anyone or anything about the area. At one point she came back to my area of work like she always has to (its isolated from everyone else), and tells me she is kind of depressed because she doesn't have any friends around. I decided to talk to my wife and see if we could invite her to one of her gatherings of japanese girls to our house. Its something my wife doesn't do often so i figured the timing was perfect for my co-worker to meet other japanese women in the area and maybe make friends. If she didn't like any of them, oh well no problem but i figured it would be a nice gesture. Now i don't actually speak japanese. The best i can do is pick out words here and there. Maybe understand a sentence by making clever guesses around the words i do understand but that is about it. So when my co-worker showed up to our house, i did make sure to stay at the dinning table with her for a while but after a bit, i left and walked down to the basement where my videogames and music are at. This is understood by my wife to be a courtesy. If i'm there, someone feels obligations to translate things for me and that is annoying for whoever does that. Plus it was a waste of my time. The night went on without any issues as well as the next following few weeks or so. Although my co-worker did ask me why i left the room after a while. I don't think she was particularly uncomfortable. I know she isn't the type that is shy or can't function in a social setting and i know my wife didn't do or say anything to upset her.

Anyway, my birthday was coming up and another mutual friend at work invited her out to drinks over the weekend for my birthday. All three of us went to lunch together on a regular basis. Now, this guy... was engaged to another woman but he was absolutely trying to get into this girl's pants but that is another story all together. She agreed to go out for drinks with us at first but on a later day told him privately that my birthday conflicted with her other friend's birthday and thus wasn't going, so it was just going to be him and myself going. Admittedly, i was a bit disappointed to hear this from him, but oh well nothing to get upset over yet. He asked me if i wanted to change the date and try to probe her availability to see if she would go another time. I told him no to forget about it because i was still expecting to hear from her directly.... My typical day involves interaction with her 3-5 times. She basically has to approach and speak to me each time. Would you believe she never said a single word about any of it? The basic "Hello and Thank you" type of things that are required in a working environment and that was about it. This went on for the next few days leading up to the weekend for the date of the drinks. I didn't get any sort of acknowledgment whatsoever. I was shocked and pretty well hurt to actually see this done to me by a co-worker. I mean how hard is it to simply say "I will not be able to show up for that night of drinks we talked about." ?

I had heard about guys acting like douches because they want sex or a relationship from a woman and get used but this was on a whole different level. I was just trying to be friends and even if she wasn't interested in that, couldn't she at least be civil and respectful to someone she has to work with everyday? What i later put together myself was that she was looking for men to string along which was boosting her ego. So essentially what happens is if for example i'm actually trying to get into the friend zone without actually trying to get in her pants, i'm not properly boosting her ego. From her perspective, it was almost like i was friend zoning her which was probably insulting because i'm out of her league or whatever, so she had to come up with a new, downgraded friend zone and put me there. That is why she disrespected me and didn't care to inform me about canceling any plans. As far as she was concerned, sending her pathetic little worker Bee to relay the message so she wouldn't have to speak to me directly was perfectly fine. Kind of stupid to play that game with someone you have multiple, daily interactions with. You can't properly ignore them anyway. I guess me walking downstairs to the basement after inviting her into my home was the point that it was clear to her that i was not interested in getting into her pants. She probably envisioned scenarios in her brain leading up to the party of me doing stupid things in front of my wife or whatever that proved i was hopelessly attracted to her. It didn't work out like that, so it pissed her off and i was essentially useless.

i would say i am a nice guy, i've got no confidence issue. Nor have i any issue talking to any ladies. But that doesn't mean they jump all over me mate. Not all so called nice guys are slaves for the girls

Dude seriously. You caused the problem. She thanked you. She only wanted her computer fixed. She wasn't interested in you....didn't lead you on. Don't be so needy.

@darkmark91:

Never become a plumber, electrician or anything that requires house calls...

I dont know i had issues with this girl, she would walk away sometimes when i would say something or not say what she wanted me to say(i tried to change my personality for her to because to be quite honest when im myself im quite boring) but the next day she would always be in face again smiling at me, i didnt understand her at all. she really was a good person though, i think she might have just hung around the wrong people.

this is how women are man, they are selfish as hell, they only think about themselves.

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

It was all in your head. This woman clearly just wanted her damn laptop fixed. Christ some of you guys lol

@Aljosa23: It makes for a good story and a laugh though, so it's all good right?

Did you expect her to become sexually attracted to you because you fixed her laptop?

"Did you expect her to become sexually attracted to you because you fixed her laptop?"

See, dude this is the only kind of shit you are going to see. Men are trained to be perfect little drones to the woman. You are never allowed to question or criticize a woman under any circumstance. Everyone only cares to criticize what YOU do and expect.

She clearly expected to get her laptop fixed.... for free..... from a guy she barely knows.... of course no one cares.

You admitted you wanted sex or perhaps a relationship but didnt necessarilly expect it. All we know is you were pissed because she didnt offer ANYTHING. Want and expect are two different things. While it may have been questionable for you to expect sex, the takeaway point here is in society, as a man, its understood that it is basically your job to give women what they want for free. Make sure you let this sink in and remember it as you go through life and interact with women.

Nah man, the point here is that he offered something for free, free is what he got and he got pissed...you can't say it's not a bit ridiculous.

Nice guys don't finish last. However, I don't define nice like most people do where their "nice guy" thing is to trick a girl into thinking you just want to be her friend and then acting flabbergasted that she only thinks of you as a friend.

idk having a 30+ min conversation with a girl and then asking for her number... if she didnt see that as in invitation then i don't know what to say. the only time i talked that long with girls are ones that were interested in me.

what about people who fall for girls they originally only wanted to be friends with?

And how exactly is it her fault that you don't talk to women without ulterior motive? I've talked to old ladies in the bus for longer than half an hour and I certainly didn't want to bang them...

So you're seriously going to compare that with two, young college students. Ok man, whatever.

She gave him her number after talking to him for that amount of time too. So no, there is no clear indication that she wasnt interested. Particularly if she feels comfortable enough to call him up for favors. It was never agreed upon that he was to do this for free. She didnt even properly friend zone him. Did she introduce him to any of her other friends? No.

Did she offer to buy him lunch or coffee? No.

Did she offer to pay anything at even a discounted fraction? No.

Did she offer to cook something he likes? No.

Did she ever even call him one time or stop by to shoot the shit and see how things are going with his life? No.

She could have clearly told him that she would not be able to pay him for the fix. If she said that, he would at least probably get the hint that no sort of sex or relationship was possible in return for this either. But of course she isnt going to say anything. Just keep ordering him around and just take his computer home and fix it as if she was his boss. Hell, his boss probably cant even tell him to work on something at home.

Im pretty sure its common knowledge that you dont expect free services even from good friends. If a guy friend of mine asked me to do something as a favorand it turned out to be a huge ordeal that took up a lot of time, i would expect him to offer at least a small amount of money or something else in return. Probably wouldnt accept it but the point is he damn well better recognize the work i did and show some gratittude. This is about respect and courtesy. Has nothing to do with sex.

Ok I was not expecting to have sex with her at all or to instantly become her boyfriend. But she didn't even treat me as a friend. I fix all my family and friends computers for free, and they all showed me some sort of REAL appreciation. Whether it be buying me a single drink, a cheap meal, helping me with something, hanging out, or at the very least talking about the weather for 5 minutes. For this girl, the moment the computer was in her hands she was so quick to turn around and be done with me... A "K, thanks, bye" attitude does not show appreciation to anyone.

I wasn't even put in the friend zone by this girl (which I would have been fine with)... I was put into the IT Guy Zone...

@amillionhp: Wait, let me see if I understood you. You are under no obligation to mention that you expect to be rewarded for the service you are offering, but she's under the obligation to mention that she won't reward you? Plus, I'm not saying that the girl did right, only that TC's assumption was a bit ridiculous. I've helped plenty of people during college and mostly I got a fist bump and a "thanks", and isn't that enough?

Also, it not being about the sex but about respect I'm sure the TC "drove hornily to her dorm" because computers turn him on...it had nothing to do with expectation of sex.

And wtf does "she didn't properly friendzoned him" even means? Does that even exist in the mind of anyone older than 15? What kind of world do you guys live in that women need to show you that they're not interested otherwise it must mean that they are? Shouldn't you assume they're not interested until they show you otherwise? Why would an exchanged phone number mean she's interested? I'm married, am I not allowed to ask a girl who works with me for her contact? Because I do it all the time in case we need to work together or I need to reach work colleagues for something. Same if they ask me for a work related favour...I ask them out because that's the right thing to do and hope that maybe if I ever need a favour I can count on them too.

Next time a girl hits on me I'll introduce her to all my friends so that she feels properly friendzoned and saves me from letting her know how I feel...

Sure, looks can be deceiving, but it seems like she was the type of person that gets what she wants and manipulates guys to do so. She just happened to take advantage of your generosity. I would just forget about her and move on, best not to keep a grudge and find someone else that can appreciate your help. If she ends up calling you or find you when she has computer trouble again, just ignore her or charge her next time for a service fee.

@korvus: Wait, let me see if I understood you. You are under no obligation to mention that you expect to be rewarded for the service you are offering, but she's under the obligation to mention that she won't reward you?

If she's calling up someone she barely knows for a favor like that and it continuously elevates into a bigger project as he described, yes she should say something or ask for her computer back. Not just assume he'll be happy to do it for free. Is a store clerk under obligation to remind you to pay for something?

I've helped plenty of people during college and mostly I got a fist bump and a "thanks", and isn't that enough?

Kind of depends on what it entailed and how long it took but that is up to you i guess..

Also, it not being about the sex but about respect I'm sure the TC "drove hornily to her dorm" because computers turn him on...it had nothing to do with expectation of sex.

See guys, let this be a lesson about gynocentrism in our society. This is i think a major reason why men feel less inclined to approach women these days or in other words, why we "lack self confidence". The instant you admit being attracted to a woman, you pretty much forfeit all degree of respect and fair treatment because its assumed from that point that any and all possible issues you have with said woman only stem from the fact that you expected to get laid and were turned down. You can't win. It doesn't matter what she did or said, it only matters that you liked her and are an entitled asshole until proven otherwise.

And wtf does "she didn't properly friendzoned him" even means? Does that even exist in the mind of anyone older than 15? What kind of world do you guys live in that women need to show you that they're not interested otherwise it must mean that they are? Shouldn't you assume they're not interested until they show you otherwise? Why would an exchanged phone number mean she's interested?

Interested in what specifically? If she gave him her number, it does imply that she was interested in SOMETHING. It doesn't imply that she was interested in sex or a relationship but it does imply that she was at the very least going to be friendly with him. This is of course assuming she has a shred of morals, which is what normal people in society are supposed to assume. If she doesn't have a shred of morals, then there is the possibility that she is asking for his number in the off chance that she may want to use him strictly as a utility in the future....

I'm married, am I not allowed to ask a girl who works with me for her contact? Because I do it all the time in case we need to work together or I need to reach work colleagues for something. Same if they ask me for a work related favour...I ask them out because that's the right thing to do and hope that maybe if I ever need a favour I can count on them too.

That is quite a difference in context there. Comparing your professional relationship with female coworkers to this guy approaching a random girl with purely casual conversation, then exchanging numbers... I don't know what else to say about. You should just be capable of making a clear distinction.

Next time a girl hits on me I'll introduce her to all my friends so that she feels properly friendzoned and saves me from letting her know how I feel...

Ok, you do that. She might appreciate it if she's desperate and looking for men. I just met a woman not long ago in her 30s that was asking me if i knew any single guys for her. What exactly is the problem with that?

No, but the store is under obligation to put prices on stuff, or is it up to me to go around asking what everything costs? Again, I'm not saying the girl was in the right, just that you shouldn't be surprised to get nothing when nothing is what you asked for. I wouldn't have expected anyone to repair my computer for free (although I've done it for others) so I would have offered something (although I'm calling BS on the "work worth $600" unless he bought her a new pc) but you can't expect everyone to do the same...you can hope for it, but not expect.

You act like the guy said he liked her and was hoping that maybe by doing her a favour she would give him the time of day. He said he hornily drove to her because she told him to drop by and pick up the charger. This has nothing to do with approaching women or being interested in one. This is about darkmark thinking that real life is a porn movie...forgive me if I don't take this as a serious problem...

You're absolutely right. Again, my problem is with darkmark's assumption and not stating that the girl was in the right.

I don't think it's all that different. It's me approaching a person in my work place and him doing the same in his (college is kind of his "work place" for now, isn't it?)

Not a problem per se, but I wouldn't send a stranger towards my friends; I trust that if they want me to set them up they'll ask me themselves.

Thank you for keeping the conversation civilised. You're earning brownie points XD

to each their own, i cant hold a conversation with a woman im not interested in that long.

@-Blasphemy-: I understand, and that's fine if you're ok with it, but it seems kind of unfair to expect other people to guess that particular personality trait of yours.

You act like the guy said he liked her and was hoping that maybe by doing her a favour she would give him the time of day. He said he hornily drove to her because she told him to drop by and pick up the charger. This has nothing to do with approaching women or being interested in one. This is about darkmark thinking that real life is a porn movie...forgive me if I don't take this as a serious problem...

She tells him flatly to make a 45 minute commute late at night just to pick up her charger? At 11:30pm? Seriously?

If that was me in his place, i would think one of two things. Either she is quite the self-entitled bitch to just straight up tell me to do that or.... there is an implication from her that i should want to do it.

Like i said before, when we deal with people in life, we can either assume they will use deception or not. Its not really a good ethical stance for him to assume she was a manipulative bitch so yeah, he thought he might get laid. Otherwise how else could she be so comfortable telling him to come to her dorm room that late at night like that?

He didn't exactly lose his shit that night anyway. So if he really thought it was a real life porn movie, that would have been the moment for him to get pissed. He didn't get really upset with her until the job was done later and she only cared to give him a verbal "thank you" over the whole thing.

@-Blasphemy-: You never made a move on her. Someone else did. That's life. Don't ask, don't get. Nobody should expect anything to just magically fall in their lap with no effort.

it wasnt that someone else made a move on her, she decided to join the army, but you are right by me not making a move, that is what happened. if we were together i dont think she would have done that. i made alot of regrets in my life but this is probably the biggest one that will stick with me forever.

@amillionhp: So if I ask you to come by and pick the charger for my pc that you currently hold I can either mean "let's have sex" or "come by and pick the charger for my pc that you currently hold"....somehow I don't think it's a 50/50 chance. It's not an ethical stance to think she's a manipulative bitch so you just assume that she doesn't mean what she says?

@korvus: So if I ask you to come by and pick the charger for my pc that you currently hold I can either mean "let's have sex" or "come by and pick the charger for my pc that you currently hold"....somehow I don't think it's a 50/50 chance

Given the time of night, distance of travel, why exactly would an ethical person be comfortable just plainly telling someone to drive there and pick it up, all so that he can do a free job? You know what? What about fucking gas money for the trip there and back?

It's not an ethical stance to think she's a manipulative bitch so you just assume that she doesn't mean what she says?

Well, there is such a thing as people who like to have sex, but in your experience are people ever verbally direct and straight forward about it? Particularly women?

Its astonishing to me that he makes one comment about "hornily driving to her dorm", which actually doesn't really mean anything besides admitting he's attracted to her. Anything beyond that is assumptions and speculations. He said outright that he didn't necessarily expect sex from her. We can call bullshit if we want, but there isn't proof. Everyone jumps down the guys shit.

Yet we can all clearly tell she purposely and deliberately used him without a care in the world and no one gives a shit about that. The most he'll get is "Well i'm not saying she was right but..."

Actually its not really shocking at all when i consider how society treats women like pathetic little babies that aren't accountable for their own actions but then demonizes men for everything under the sun.

@amillionhp: You're the one making this a men vs women thing. If it was the other way around it wouldn't change a thing (for me at least). Yes, she took advantage of him and he now needs to keep in mind that people will do that so next time he should make it perfectly clear what he expects in return for his help.

And yes, women are normally direct about what they want from me and I extend them the same courtesy. The least direct sex proposal I ever had was "Want to stop by my house, cuddle on the couch with a movie and see where it leads?"...which is a lot more indicative of wanting sex than "come pick up my PC charger"....also I always had at least a close friendship with the girls in question before they proposed anything sex related. I never said yes to any of them but at least the proposal didn't drop out of nowhere and we were always good enough friends not to lose our friendship with a proposal rejection of that sort.

Have to say Korvus has it right.

I am impatiently wait for this movie "The Nice Guys". Ryan Gosling and Russell Crowe both looks awesome in this movie trailer. Specially Russell Crowe in his Blue Leather Jacket. I really want this one, Sky-Seller have this jacket I hope this will perfectly match.

Don't be what you think someone else wants you to be. Be yourself or you'll never be happy. When you find someone who likes you for what you are not the image you put on then you won't have to worry about who finishes first or last.

You'll be finishing all over her face.

Or I will. Cuz I'm a scoundrel :)