Christian bakers who refused cake order for gay wedding forced to close shop

[QUOTE="EagleEyedOne"][QUOTE="Person0"]If you own a business don't be terrible people and discriminate. Also lol at blaze/washingtontimes sourcesShmiity

This situation really is a dilemma. On one hand, you should be able to refuse service to whoever you want. But it's 2013. If you have any anti-gay sentiments, I just don't feel bad for you. I think you're a backwards ass hat. Should people be sending death threats? Of course not. But if you make a public anti-gay statement, forget about your business. Your business is now associated with discrimination. You're absolutely f*cked.

[QUOTE="EagleEyedOne"][QUOTE="Person0"] no they can't discriminate against anyone.Person0

Jesus Christ. Denying the gay couple was the wrong thing to do in the first place by the bakers, but then for the bakery couple to get harassed like that was a complete overreaction by the other side. Seems like neither side proved they're better than the other with this incident. 

Can you link such said laws?EagleEyedOne

[QUOTE="EagleEyedOne"][QUOTE="Person0"] no they can't discriminate against anyone.Person0

Yeah, it seems that those signs about the right to refuse service to anyone are really just for show

[QUOTE="Person0"]

[QUOTE="EagleEyedOne"] Honestly, I haven't looked up the federal law or Oregon state law on this. Which law says that you cannot?EagleEyedOne

[QUOTE="Person0"]

[QUOTE="EagleEyedOne"] Honestly, I haven't looked up the federal law or Oregon state law on this. Which law says that you cannot?lostrib

Yeah, it seems that those signs about the right to refuse service to anyone are really just for show

[QUOTE="EagleEyedOne"]Can you link such said laws?Aljosa23

[QUOTE="EagleEyedOne"][QUOTE="Person0"]Federal law forbids discrimination about some things like race but not sexual orientation. Oregon state discrimination forbids sexual discrimination.

Person0

no they can't discriminate against anyone.Person0

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="Person0"]Federal law forbids discrimination about some things like race but not sexual orientation. Oregon state discrimination forbids sexual discrimination.

Person0

Yeah, it seems that those signs about the right to refuse service to anyone are really just for show

I don't think they even have to be a protected class.  You can't arbitrarily descriminate against people

[QUOTE="Person0"]

[QUOTE="EagleEyedOne"] Can you link such said laws?EagleEyedOne

Read the whole page.

[QUOTE="Person0"]no they can't discriminate against anyone.MrGeezer

There would need to be a legitimate business reason for it

[QUOTE="Person0"]no they can't discriminate against anyone.MrGeezer

[QUOTE="EagleEyedOne"][QUOTE="Person0"] Oregon DiscriminationPerson0

[QUOTE="Person0"][QUOTE="EagleEyedOne"] They only have to have hired a female in order to fulfill that law.EagleEyedOne

Right, but they can't discriminate against people because they're gay

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"] Yep. I mean, I'm obviously not going to defend anyone who took this to criminal levels, such as making actual threats of violence. That shouldn't be tolerated or condoned, ever. But aside from that, free speech is a b****. Just as I support this couple's right to not bake the cake, I also have to let out a little smile when I see that the backlash forced them to close shop. For the most part we're all free to make whatever statements we want to make, but that doesn't mean that society has to coddle our asses and make that easy for us. EagleEyedOne

Absolutely THIS!

If anything, the idea that they would refuse business for such a petty thing makes me think they weren't the greatest business people around...

The gay community asks for acceptance. This particular place of business refused them acceptance, and in turn the gay supporters used their powers as consumers to speak out against the business and they were VERY sucessful.

The people doing the threats were being ridiculous and wrong obviously, but putting the company out of business was just an awesome example of consumers beating the businesses. I actually think this sets a nice example in the business world that you need to be accepting of different groups or it can really bite you in the ass.

Really the couple were just incredibly stupid doing what they did especially in this day and age. Gay  rights have been slowly growing stronger throughout the country and there is more and more people being accepting of the gay community. You don't go and alienate a huge potential customer base like that. It was just REALLY bad business and this is a lovely example of how free speech can have consequences.

[QUOTE="EagleEyedOne"][QUOTE="Person0"] Discrimination in Public Accommodation A place of public accommodation is defined in state law as any place that offers the public accommodations, advantages, facilities or privileges, whether in the nature of goods, services, lodging, amusements or otherwise. It is illegal to discriminate in places of public accommodation on the basis of race, sex (including pregnancy), sexual orientation, national origin, religion, marital status, physical or mental disability, or age (18 years of age and older). lostrib

Right, but they can't discriminate against people because they're gay

[QUOTE="EagleEyedOne"][QUOTE="Person0"] Discrimination in Public Accommodation A place of public accommodation is defined in state law as any place that offers the public accommodations, advantages, facilities or privileges, whether in the nature of goods, services, lodging, amusements or otherwise. It is illegal to discriminate in places of public accommodation on the basis of race, sex (including pregnancy), sexual orientation, national origin, religion, marital status, physical or mental disability, or age (18 years of age and older). Person0

I mean, how dumb were they to admit that?

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="EagleEyedOne"] It also says Not all discrimination is illegal. For example, an employer can choose to hire one person instead of another or a restaurant can turn people away for reasons that may not be unlawful. EagleEyedOne

Right, but they can't discriminate against people because they're gay

that generally happens when people break the law

[QUOTE="Person0"][QUOTE="EagleEyedOne"] It also says Not all discrimination is illegal. For example, an employer can choose to hire one person instead of another or a restaurant can turn people away for reasons that may not be unlawful. lostrib

I mean, how dumb were they to admit that?

"We wondered what other requests these cakemakers would decline to honor. So last week five WW reporters called these two bakeries anonymously to get price quotes for other occasions frowned upon by some Christians. Surprisingly, the people who answered the phone at each bakery were quite willing to provide baked goods for celebrations of divorces, unmarried parents, stem-cell research, non-kosher barbecues and pagan solstice parties."

There would need to be a legitimate business reason for itlostrib

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="Person0"] Yeah... the whole point is the bakery discriminated due to them being gay which is a protected class.Person0

I mean, how dumb were they to admit that?

"We wondered what other requests these cakemakers would decline to honor. So last week five WW reporters called these two bakeries anonymously to get price quotes for other occasions frowned upon by some Christians. Surprisingly, the people who answered the phone at each bakery were quite willing to provide baked goods for celebrations of divorces, unmarried parents, stem-cell research, non-kosher barbecues and pagan solstice parties."

lol, well I mean most people that want to descriminate you make up or find another reason: busy schedule, no openings, wedding is too big, too small, etc.

But the religious aspect actually is the serious concern in this case.  I think most people can admit that they discriminated against gay people/gay marriage.  And they claim it's for religious reasons.  So the issue is why do they have to give up their freedom of religion?  of course, most reasonable people would say that you give up your private rights when you choose to open a business that deals with the general public.

[QUOTE="lostrib"]There would need to be a legitimate business reason for itMrGeezer

Okay

[QUOTE="Person0"]

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

I mean, how dumb were they to admit that?

lostrib

"We wondered what other requests these cakemakers would decline to honor. So last week five WW reporters called these two bakeries anonymously to get price quotes for other occasions frowned upon by some Christians. Surprisingly, the people who answered the phone at each bakery were quite willing to provide baked goods for celebrations of divorces, unmarried parents, stem-cell research, non-kosher barbecues and pagan solstice parties."

lol, well I mean most people that want to descriminate you make up or find another reason: busy schedule, no openings, wedding is too big, too small, etc.

But the religious aspect actually is the serious concern in this case.  I think most people can admit that they discriminated against gay people/gay marriage.  And they claim it's for religious reasons.  So the issue is why do they have to give up their freedom of religion?  of course, most reasonable people would say that you give up that right when you choose to open a business that deals with the general public.

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="Person0"] nah see its not because they're gay its "religious reasons" Even though its not really.

"We wondered what other requests these cakemakers would decline to honor. So last week five WW reporters called these two bakeries anonymously to get price quotes for other occasions frowned upon by some Christians. Surprisingly, the people who answered the phone at each bakery were quite willing to provide baked goods for celebrations of divorces, unmarried parents, stem-cell research, non-kosher barbecues and pagan solstice parties."

Person0

lol, well I mean most people that want to descriminate you make up or find another reason: busy schedule, no openings, wedding is too big, too small, etc.

But the religious aspect actually is the serious concern in this case.  I think most people can admit that they discriminated against gay people/gay marriage.  And they claim it's for religious reasons.  So the issue is why do they have to give up their freedom of religion?  of course, most reasonable people would say that you give up that right when you choose to open a business that deals with the general public.

Yeah, some people don't seem to get the limits on personal rights/freedoms.  You can go ahead and discriminate against gay people at your house all you want, you can't at your place of business that you open to the public.

Found this on the interwebs about discrimination: "For the most part, courts have decided that the constitutional interest in providing equal access to public accommodations outweighs the individual liberties involved."

I actually think this sets a nice example in the business world that you need to be accepting of different groups or it can really bite you in the ass.LostProphetFLCL

I'm all for gay rights and stuff... so I am conflicted. Denying a Lesbian wedding cake is mean. Also stupid because you're denying $. But on the other hand, you totally can refuse any business from anyone who walks in the store. It's your store. I feel badly for them because this got so out of hand... but I also am kind of happy? 

Shmiity

That bakers couple used their freedom of speech to deny service to the lesbian couple. That was a dumb decision though...
The public used their freedom of speech in return to tear down that company. 

The threats are uncalled for though, those people need to be persecuted.

Those bakers are lovely people indeed.... :roll:

Karma bites.Allicrombie

Sending death threats and wishing illness on their children is really fvcked up.chessmaster1989

I'm glad their business is now failing, but sending death threats is going way to far.

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]Sending death threats and wishing illness on their children is really fvcked up.MAZ85

[QUOTE="MAZ85"][QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]Sending death threats and wishing illness on their children is really fvcked up.chessmaster1989

 

Those bakers are lovely people indeed.... :roll:

TheFlush

Yup, absolutely no sympathy for these pieces of ****...

The best part is I bet they think of themselves as this really great, wonderful Christian couple. Too bad the jackasses completely miss some major points in the bible, such as "love thy neighbor" and "God loves all his children"....

But regardless, the main point MAZ is why the fvck would you say it's too easy to wish for children to fall ill? wtf is wrong with youchessmaster1989

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"][QUOTE="MAZ85"] I mean even if they adopt children they still aren't really THEIR children , like they didn't "make" them my english is poor broMAZ85

[QUOTE="MAZ85"][QUOTE="chessmaster1989"] The Kleins are husband and wife, so presumably they had their children in the standard way... Although your views about adoption are kind of sad.toast_burner

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="MAZ85"] by "they" as in "well I think they take it too easy" I meant homosexual activists that sent threats and an adopted child is still not your child even if you give him your last name , these are my viewsMAZ85

An adopted child isn't biologically your child, but it is still your child. Only a very stupid person would deny that.

[QUOTE="MAZ85"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]And your views are pretty damn stupid.

toast_burner

An adopted child isn't biologically your child, but it is still your child. Only a very stupid person would deny that.