As a christian I have a question for non believers

Well, some of us do
Drop the Bible
Pick up a physics text book
And learn how our Earth came to be
"Perfection" took 4.5 billion years

Also
My thoughts

Ok cool. But its not really on us non believers to disprove god. Its on the other party's shoulders to affirm the positive.

'Meh...'

If god would condemn me for following my own life philosophies, then he's just a dick.

@chaoscougar1: That's a great quote and I agree with the sentiment =)

Wrong. It's on anyone that makes a statement either/or.

Not really. Its understandable to assume that certain things PROBABLY don't exist given the lack of evidence to support their existence. It would be a waste of time for me to ask you to prove to me that unicorns don't exist. I know you couldn't. The myriad of permutations to this line of thinking is endless.

Ya know, there's the option of not caring and just moving on.

Just wanted to say the low level of all these arguments shows how greatly OT has decayed.

I'd be surprised (? not sure what it would be like to feel surprise outside of my physical form), but no use arguing with God. I'd just go with the flow.

If this being created the entire universe then there probably wouldn't be any use in trying to argue or match intellect.

EDIT: Ironic, with my post count ... I'm in a topic about God/hell!

it's a sign

Be gone demon

Well it can be used as a verb, don't tell me I should get a dictionary, people understand very well what I'm saying, you're focussing on details to avoid the subject. Maybe we can communicate in my mother tongue, see how far you get

I never used the word 'illogical'

It's irrational to dismiss 2000 years of history completely. There's no evidence that god doesn't exist either. If we know about the better part of the universe and manage to control life or death, then we can say such things, not before that. We don't have the power nor the knowledge to make these assumptions.

If the Christian God is what I understand him to be, he will judge me for what I've done in my life, and now whether or not I've been Christian. Being a good person wins out over following flawed religious rites.

@evildead6789 said:

But the common ancestor was still a monkey

We're monkey's , it's as clear as day

No, we are more closely related to apes than monkeys.

We evolved around the constraints of our environment, not vice-versa. Of course life would only evolve where it was possible to do so. That our environment is nurturing to us is expected when it is the very environment that we have evolved to live within.

@br0kenrabbit said:

@evildead6789 said:

But the common ancestor was still a monkey

We're monkey's , it's as clear as day

No, we are more closely related to apes than monkeys.

all the same bs

I live my life as a good person, pulling my weight, doing unto others and all that. I would have no regrets. Should the invisible man in the sky condemn me for missing the role call, I would rather not hang out with such a petty deity anyways.

Would rather spend my life believing people are full of potential and inherently good, and that this is more than a test instead of believing that people are without meaning and inherently bad without some ancient book to give them a moral compass they should (yet frequently don't) have anyways.

If we are talking about the Abrahamic God of the Old Testament, I would actively reject it's authority and accept my place in Hell. That character is despicable.

If you can't prove it....then don't pretend to do so.

A lot of people love to say this, but I don't get it.

What is a good person? Do you get to pick who is a good person? You and me might both look at John Doe and come away with different interpretations. I say John is a scum for not volunteering his time at the local food kitchen. You say John is great because he spends time with his mother in the nursing home. So who gets to pick if John goes to hell or heaven? To avoid it being subjective we must allow God to choose. Well if God says John is a dick for not worshiping and spreading the good news of the Bible, then who are we to say otherwise? If God sets the rules for who is "good" then it really doesn't matter what you like or think is fair.

Well, for one, belief in God as a necessary factor to enter heaven is already a poor reason to begin with, and I don't think agnostics need to explain that.

Why is it a poor reason? Are there people that don't believe in God yet believe in heaven/hell after death? What is in Heaven if not God?

I'm assuming you mean heaven simply as a place to be with God and not as a place that merely rewards people deemed virtuous because they believe in God. If that's the case, then going to hell isn't a big deal unless if your interpretation of hell as a place to punish non-believers with eternal suffering.

Such a loving and caring god that has people worship him/her out of fear.... Get real... Science has proven religion wrong on so many fronts that the ones it hasn't yet doesn't even matter. If there truly IS a god... a heaven and a hell. If you TRULY believe that only Christians and other people that believe EXACTLY what you believe are the ONLY ones going to heaven.... you need to think about that for a second. You are ok with a god that condemns others to hell for having different beliefs regardless of how good of a person they may be?

I love a good fairy tale as much as the next person, but believing that you (in a religion smaller than others worldwide) are right and others are wrong is ignorant.

If there is a god, I believe morals and clean living will get you in the doors if heaven does exist.... after all, religion is nothing more than a set of moral standards.

Throughout what I say there are many "if's" however, I can start going through facts if you would like... actually, no, I'm not going there. Religion is a good thing most of the time... it served a purpose before formal laws and these days it is good for social acceptance in some social circles.

Bottom line? Let me ask YOU a question... God knows all right? So, that means he/she/it knows whether or not you are going to hell before you are even born ;) Free will doesn't matter if we all have a fate. Which if you believe in formal religion you DO believe in Fate, because you believe god knows everything.... right? Or is this god not perfect? In which case... IF GOD is not perfect then what makes you think that teachings and writing passed through thousands of years have not been so misconstrued by this point that they may not even RESEMBLE the original stories if they ever happened at all....

How were the mental states of those writing? How about status? I'll stop here... and I wont reply back... super religious types could have the proof that disproves religion fall from the sky and knock them out and they wouldn't quit believing... Religion... while causing many wars, stops even more ;)

I don't feel like commenting on the rest of it, but Christianity is the largest religion in the world. Islam is second. Hinduism is third. Buddhism is fourth.

All others pale in comparison.

We didn't evolved from monkeys, we share a common ancestor.

Christianity is broken into over 20 different sections and people these days seem to think they can bend the rules of traditional Christianity on a whim... Islam has 2... and most others are traditionally just one. Go ahead and delve into the rest of it.. since you seem to know so much about the unknown.

Those that are non religious (atheists make up 16%) making them the largest SINGLE sector.... sorry... but you are wrong.

You want to look at the "overall picture" then go right ahead. That doesn't change facts...

but please as I said before.... do comment on the rest.

@evildead6789 said:

@br0kenrabbit said:

@evildead6789 said:

But the common ancestor was still a monkey

We're monkey's , it's as clear as day

No, we are more closely related to apes than monkeys.

all the same bs

No it isn't, which is why that picture is from a movie called Planet of the Apes

@chaoscougar1 said:

Also

My thoughts

Well put by my man Marcus.

The purpose of religion is to control yourself,

and not to criticise others.

Atheist too should not criticise or judge others,

just like what Communism did.

I myself believe there is only one God and I also believe in his son Jesus, but I don't quite understand your question you have for non-believers;

are you saying that people who didn't believe in God or Jesus when they died are all going to Hell? because if so that's not the case with every non-believer.

Lets say you were someone who as a child was sexually abused by a person who claimed to be Godly and a follower of Christ.

Now lets say that, because you grew up being told that God hated you and that the reason why you were sexually abused as a child is because God was punishing you, now an adult don't only NOT believe in God or his son but also hate them.

Do you think in this scenario that God would let this person go to Hell all because they were led away from him and because they're image of God, since they were born, has been mutilated? I for one don't think so.

It is CLEARLY stated in the bible in Gods very own words "The sins of the child who is led away from me are not held on that child, they (the sins they commit that is) are held on the person who led them away from me... I (God) do not forget what has been done to my children".

So yes, what God said there, which is right in the Bible, clearly states that just because you don't live for God or believe in him doesn't mean that you will go to Hell because you didn't believe in him before you died.

And besides the point, When Jesus returns to earth to bring his people to Heaven (anyone who lives for God and Jesus is one of his people) he will raise those who did not believe or live for him from their graves and will give them all a second chance.

God and his son are very merciful, and they would not let someone who didn't know them or who was living a sinful life because of pain they went through go to Hell.

When it comes to child abuse, you would be very surprised to see what God and Jesus have to say about pedophiles;

one of those things being this and I quiet God here when I say this "It would be better to tie a millstone around your neck and hoist yourself to the bottom of the see than to hurt one of my children".

God also mentioned in the Bible how pedophiles disgust him so much that he cant even stand to look at them.

And Jesus said in the Book of Revelations "For those who commit deviltry their names are not written in the book of life" pedophiles commit deviltry, so therefor they can not go to Heaven.

Since you say you are Godly you SHOULD be able to understand the things I said.

And hopefully you truly studied your Bible before you wrote this forum.

you just restated exactly what I just said

Faith is Poison to Logic

and Logic is Poison to Faith.

Its a paradox because this statement is both Faith and Logic.

What about this? It's amazing that around 4000 years ago that Bible is written and keeping it itself accurate. Don't forget, modern science and bible's definition is not exactly same, Bible is designed for many centuries to understand.

Check it out: 101 Scientific Facts & Foreknowledge

Prepared to be amazed.

So are you saying we came from nothingness? xD

@Blizz87: Besides all that Christian-Jesus babble, what you're really asking is if people feel sorry for the times they act like douchebags, and if in the presence of a being that could grant them eternal happiness, would they apologize for the times they acted like douchebags? In this context, I don't think anybody would disagree with your message.

Religions are essentially all the same thing. They have their own special words and names for everything, but the message is universally the same -- Don't be an asshole. If you're an asshole, you're going to spend the afterlife with the rest of the assholes. If you're not an asshole, or if you tried your hardest to not be an asshole, then you'll spend the afterlife with the the decent folk.

This God you believe in -- based on the teachings of the Bible -- isn't concerned about people attending church every Sunday and making grand sacrifices for the sake of making sacrifices. The God you pledge allegiance to -- like all gods people identify with -- is only concerned with people doing their best to not make other people miserable. If there is a grand kingdom in the clouds, I plan on living my life in a way that makes me confident to stand at the gates of any god and say I've done my best. And that if that god truly has some kind of eternal, unconditional love, that should be enough.

Discussion over.

@Blizz87: I look at it like this. People believe that life exists elsewhere. So it would be safe to assume that considering how old the universe is other civilizations would be progressing as is ours but not safe to assume the same time frame so they would be more evolved somewhere so why is it we haven't seen any space trash from other civilizations. As I say does the earth spin or does the universe spin around the earth considering that the earth is considered to be the center of the universe. And this concept of time. Time does not exist. Time remains the same. God is not going to visit as he wants you to have faith. There is a difference in saying you have faith and believing. If you have faith you do not worry or stress out. As soon as you worry you have proven you have no faith. And I mean all the time not just when it's convenient. God said he wouldn't flood the earth again but it's going to happen another way. Actually it's already happening. I wont say what it is but I'm sure your smart enough to figure it out. There is a transition happening and it's all part of the self destruction of man kind.

Yep
Where do you believe Gods intervention took place?
Big Bang? Creation of stars? Galaxies? ...more stars? Planets? Life?

"You know what I'm gonna tell God when I see him? I'm gonna tell him I was framed."

Anyhow, TC, what's to say the same thing won't happen to you?

God* He is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient. He didn't come from anywhere. He has always existed. Yeah, He made everything.

*God's
Once again, he made everything in the sense that he plunked a bunch of galaxies down full of stars and planets
Orrrrr
He just provided guidance a la Patrick Swayze in Ghost
And so the trillions of other stars and galaxies are for our viewing pleasure as the chosen peoples?

Also, with that line of thinking
The always existing thing brings about quite the paradox as technically he waited an infinite amount of time before creating our universe
Plus the whole time and space were only created with the Big Bang
Its quite the conundrum

Christianity has over 2 billion followers. Just because they have over 22,000 denominations doesn't make them any less "Christian". Hindus have a different interpretation of what "God/Atman/Brahman" is for each of their 1.1 billion individual followers. Doesn't make them any less "Hindu".

The majority of people in the world are religious.

Well, if I died and was faced with a reality, hey.....that's reality and I'd have to accept it. But I would hope that any God would not be so vengeful and petty as the one you allude to, and would treasure highest of all people that didn't adhere to strict dogma and base their actions in life contingent upon fear, guilt, shame, and the prospect of eternal reward, but instead those that had the moral and intellectual fortitude and courage to question everything that came their way and come to their own conclusions about life's journey instead of having it dictated to them out of an ancient book.

Life is far, far too beautiful and magnificent a thing to be the product of such a pathetic being. I look around at the world, and in my mind there's simply no possible way something so breathtakingly amazing could arise from something so draconian and petty. Does not compute. And if it is, then existence is a sick, cruel joke.

Aside, I've never understood Christians. They say I have "free will" to accept or reject salvation. This is false. I can't "choose" to believe in anything in life, I just do. My beliefs are the product of many factors: my genetics, my living situation, parents and upbringing, the people I've met, my education, geography.....all of the experiences I've gone through. They all mix together and bring me to where I am today. It's not that I don't wish to believe in a God, it's that from what I've lived I can't. Knowing what I do, I couldn't force myself to believe in Santa Claus if my life depended on it, and I'm unable to bring myself to believe in a personal God in such a way either. Don't know if you realize this but there are many people out there who desire to believe in God but can't. Not choose not to, but literally cannot. There was a period in my life in my early twenties where I mourned pretty heavily because I wished for their to be a loving God but everything I saw and experienced smashed that idea into dust.

Why do the religious think I have this choice? People speak of free will as if it's some tool that exists in a vacuum with nothing else considered when it's put into practice. It ain't that simple. Really, if I came face to face with God and He was about to cast me down, I could say nothing, because there was no option in me. I suppose I would not say a word and have to accept my fate. And would I repent for my sins? Well, I don't believe in the concept of sin, in fact I find that people think the Almighty could hold such stupid and pathetically meager behaviors as justification for an eternity of torture (hell, just being BORN is enough) utterly ludicrous and contemptible, not to mention extremely humorous. There is no greater degree of egocentrism and arrogance than for one to believe that they hold the ability to offend such a supreme being. It is easily the highest degree of narcissism. Original sin, IMO, is a hugely detrimental reflective statement of the creator that does nothing but go to show further how man-made religion truly is.

I'm sorry to break it to you.....you are not that important in the scheme of creation, and neither am I. If there is a God, trust me....I think it's safe to assume He does not care that you stole a cookie from the cookie jar when you were six.

I hope one day TC you'll find better reason to "believe" than a poor man's wager. And I'll flip that question to you and would like to hear your thoughts: what would be your reaction if you woke up tomorrow and were forced to realize that you have been living and basing your life on false premise? A highly romanticized fiction? Have you even humored that possibility?

@kuu2: I think that's one of the saddest statements I've read in a while.

Honestly science just doesn't make sense in regards to creation. A random big explosion created the earth and made it perfect for humans and animals to live on?? We all evolved from apes??? If that was the case, apes would have evolved into humans by now. And people who believe that laugh at people who believe in God? Give me a break, that's more far fetched than anything I seen or read.

The reason I KNOW God is real is because of some experiences I seen in my life as well as friends and family.

For example, a family friend who had a rare cancer was told by doctors she had maybe 2 weeks to live. She is a Christian, and still faithfully went to church, and helped others in her everyday life. Many people prayed for her. 2 weeks later she goes back to he doctor, and the cancer is completely gone. The doctors were dumbfounded and couldn't explain it at all. Science didn't her save or life nor was it luck. That was God PERIOD.

Another instance, is a story that's well known in my area. One family's child drowned in a pool and was declared DEAD by doctors for at least 25-30 mins. Then a pastor got there and everyone prayed. After that prayer that child started breathing again. Again, science nor luck had anything to do with that. That's just miracles and signs from the man upstairs.

So yea, I dig science and all but God is clearly real and I chose to serve him. And what people fail to realize is that the Christian life isn't boring. You can have fun, just not like wild sex, drugs, and what not.

God only requires that you acknowledge that his son Jesus died for all out sins, so that we all can live external life.

I don't get it. Why do you think that you're able to ascertain that the Abrahamic God does not exist while at the same time you lose that certainty with the general issue of the existence of God?

It's harder to believe in something than not to believe in something. It requires effort and faith. It seems like for any evidence you find supporting something, there is always two claims of evidence denying it.

I prefer to have a little faith since it's harder of the two. This is of course logically incorrect but I live all facets of my life by logic, it would seem like. So when it comes to beliefs I prefer to believe in something bigger than myself and everything else on the world, not just some cosmic coincidence.

I've heard the scare tactic argument used to discredit the religious or to devalue and belittle faith rather frequently. I personally don't get it. Much of what we do has fear as at least one of its impetuses and driving forces. Whether in childhood, academia, the professional world or in social/personal life, fear of experiencing certain losses and sufferings and the fear of being deprived of certain achievements and pleasures are an inherent component of people's lives and greatly influence their conduct. People that think otherwise are fooling themselves really; they're attempting to transcend to a mode of existence that is beyond the human being. If it wasn't for some combination of different fears the individual would most likely end up in a state of decay and utter failure.

you were an A student you say?