Abortion Doctor killed in Church

[QUOTE="Chaos_HL21"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Regardless of what one's views are on abortion, I would at least hope people can recognize that murdering someone who is doing something you don't approve of is not exactly a terribly good way to get them to stop.

sammyjenkis898

Even if you don't see that see that the murder of an abortion doctor is the wrong thing to do. They should at least see that a murder of another human at church is wrong. Killing someone is bad, killing someone on holy ground is alot worst.

I think that this is horrible, but if the person who did this is a christian it would be more horrible, because holy ground is suppose to be sacred.

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

[QUOTE="CleanPlayer"]I read this earlier today, it's messed up he was assassinated in Church. Saxsoon

I kind of find it ironic, funny, and sad all at the same time that a man like Tiller actually went to church. And besides, what's everyone so upset about? All someone did was give him the ultimate late-term abortion, something he was absolutely in favor of and practiced as often as he could. Read up on this guy and you'll find he was an absolute scumbag and a black eye for the pro-choice movement. There's a reason he was nicknamed 'Tiller the Baby-Killer.'

I just don't sympathize with people who knowingly, intentionally, and willfully kill a living child pulled from the womb just days before it would be conceived naturally. Do we not have adoption in this country? Is this China, where the girl babies are drowned in the rivers like rats?

And did I kill the guy? No? Oh yeah, that's how I live with myself. I'm merely pointing out the irony (on both sides) of people being pissed off about a guy who kills kids getting killed (while in church, no less). I had a good belly laugh about it, but at the very least, you can appreciate the irony, no?

I wonder if he still considers himself pro-life...

Guybrush_3

Or, conversely, if Tiller considers himself pro-choice.

[QUOTE="Astrapsody"]

"Thou shalt not kill"

I think they missed a commandment there...:|

GabuEx

I'm sure the person who did this would do something like pointing out a better translation of that commandment is "you shall not murder", and would then attempt to say "well, since he murdered babies, it was therefore justifiable and not murder".

...Ignoring, of course, almost the entire text of Jesus' teachings in the New Testament... :P

An extremist killed another extremist. Neither side should be particularly pleased that tools like these are going to be used to paint each side's argument in a bad light.

An extremist killed another extremist. Neither side should be particularly pleased that tools like these are going to be used to paint each side's argument in a bad light.

Shame-usBlackley

I don't particularly care about my side's argument in light of this - a human being was murdered, and that's never a cause for celebration, no matter who it was.

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

An extremist killed another extremist. Neither side should be particularly pleased that tools like these are going to be used to paint each side's argument in a bad light.

GabuEx

I don't particularly care about my side's argument in light of this - a human being was murdered, and that's never a cause for celebration, no matter who it was.

Several were, actually.

[QUOTE="sammyjenkis898"][QUOTE="Chaos_HL21"]

Even if you don't see that see that the murder of an abortion doctor is the wrong thing to do. They should at least see that a murder of another human at church is wrong. Killing someone is bad, killing someone on holy ground is alot worst.

Chaos_HL21

I think that this is horrible, but if the person who did this is a christian it would be more horrible, because holy ground is suppose to be sacred.

Its a weird situation.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

An extremist killed another extremist. Neither side should be particularly pleased that tools like these are going to be used to paint each side's argument in a bad light.

Shame-usBlackley

I don't particularly care about my side's argument in light of this - a human being was murdered, and that's never a cause for celebration, no matter who it was.

Several were, actually.

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

I don't particularly care about my side's argument in light of this - a human being was murdered, and that's never a cause for celebration, no matter who it was.

sammyjenkis898

Several were, actually.

I imagine he's talking about the aborted fetuses... nonetheless, if one believes that what Tiller was doing was wrong, then there should be not one, but two things that they find sad - first, that he was murdered, but second, that he was murdered while still doing what he was doing. One may appreciate the cessation of bad things that will result from someone's death if one must, but the fact that someone's path in life lead to such a situation is a terrible tragedy, no two ways about it.

[QUOTE="sammyjenkis898"][QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

Several were, actually.

GabuEx

I imagine he's talking about the aborted fetuses... nonetheless, if one believes that what Tiller was doing was wrong, then there should be not one, but two things that they find sad - first, that he was murdered, but second, that he was murdered while still doing what he was doing. One may appreciate the cessation of bad things that will result from someone's death if one must, but the fact that someone's path in life lead to such a situation is a terrible tragedy, no two ways about it.

It's a nice sentiment, but it doesn't hold water. For example, If Osama bin Laden got killed tomorrow, it wouldn't sadden me in the least. Bin Laden and Tiller weren't on the same level, but I DO believe they are both murderers of the innocent, just doing so under different ideologies. I feel no sadness at all for Tiller.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="sammyjenkis898"] They should be ashamed of themselves. Shame-usBlackley

I imagine he's talking about the aborted fetuses... nonetheless, if one believes that what Tiller was doing was wrong, then there should be not one, but two things that they find sad - first, that he was murdered, but second, that he was murdered while still doing what he was doing. One may appreciate the cessation of bad things that will result from someone's death if one must, but the fact that someone's path in life lead to such a situation is a terrible tragedy, no two ways about it.

It's a nice sentiment, but it doesn't hold water. For example, If Osama bin Laden got killed tomorrow, it wouldn't sadden me in the least. Bin Laden and Tiller weren't on the same level, but I DO believe they are both murderers of the innocent, just doing so under different ideologies. I feel no sadness at all for Tiller.

Dude, stop sympathizing with terrorists. For all the talk of comparing the abortion doctor to bin laden, it's the other way around. The KILLER is more like Bin Laden, murdering to send a message. And yeah, now we see that abortion doctors aren't even safe at church. Terrorism in its truest form.

Hmph, what a stupid killer. He didn;t like a doctor because he killed fetuses and belived that the doctor took lives, so therefore, he took the doctor's life. what a hypocrite. >_>

It sucks that people get killed over having a different belief now. thankfully not many people are like the killer though.

It's a nice sentiment, but it doesn't hold water. For example, If Osama bin Laden got killed tomorrow, it wouldn't sadden me in the least. Bin Laden and Tiller weren't on the same level, but I DO believe they are both murderers of the innocent, just doing so under different ideologies. I feel no sadness at all for Tiller.

Shame-usBlackley

If Osama bin Laden was killed tomorrow, would that bring a positive effect to the world? Of course it would. But that doesn't make the fact that Osama bin Laden became what he is today any less unfortunate. People don't become murderers for no reason - something somewhere caused their lives to take that path, and that is where the real tragedy lies. That's not to say we shouldn't do what we can to stop them, but I for one celebrate no one's death.

Our jobs ought to be to attempt to put those who have gone astray back onto the right path, and failing that, to protect society from those who appear to be irretrievably lost. Actions may be judged, but the judgment of a person as a whole is an action that no human being on Earth has the sufficient capacity to adequately carry out.

Dude, stop sympathizing with terrorists. For all the talk of comparing the abortion doctor to bin laden, it's the other way around. The KILLER is more like Bin Laden, murdering to send a message. And yeah, now we see that abortion doctors aren't even safe at church. Terrorism in its truest form.

MrGeezer

I don't sympathize with the twit who did the shooting, either. His actions set my argument back, and I don't appreciate that. I'm saying that the idea of being saddened by the death of someone merely on the merits of a human being being killed doesn't hold water, because there are a dozens of people who have been (or could be) killed that wouldn't bother me at all due to things they've done to other humans.

We're talking about an extremist doctor -- one of only three in the country (now two) who perform these types of abortions. And please -- stop with the sycophant liberal diarrhea about 'terrorism.' I don't hear you complaining about all the babies this guy 'terrorized.'

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

It's a nice sentiment, but it doesn't hold water. For example, If Osama bin Laden got killed tomorrow, it wouldn't sadden me in the least. Bin Laden and Tiller weren't on the same level, but I DO believe they are both murderers of the innocent, just doing so under different ideologies. I feel no sadness at all for Tiller.

GabuEx

If Osama bin Laden was killed tomorrow, would that bring a positive effect to the world? Of course it would. But that doesn't make the fact that Osama bin Laden became what he is today any less unfortunate. People don't become murderers for no reason - something somewhere caused their lives to take that path, and that is where the real tragedy lies. That's not to say we shouldn't do what we can to stop them, but I for one celebrate no one's death.

Our jobs ought to be to attempt to put those who have gone astray back onto the right path, and failing that, to protect society from those who appear to be irretrievably lost. Actions may be judged, but the judgment of a person as a whole is an action that no human being on Earth has the sufficient capacity to adequately carry out.

Celebrating and not feeling any sadness over one's death are two completely different things.

I do reserve the right to judge, but that doesn't mean I'm going to kill someone. I think Tiller was a piece of **** scumbag, but I didn't blow him away either. And some people DO become murderers for no reason. Read up on Dahmer and Bundy -- some people just dig on killing things. First little animals and then bigger things. And hey, I'm not in a position to say for sure, but maybe Tiller was one of those guys who dug killing and was smart enough to get paid to do it by stupid ignorants who waited until they were ready to squeeze the kid out before wondering what their options were. Or maybe he just genuinely believed that life doesn't start until you're a couple hours outside the womb or some such nonsense. Either way, I don't feel a bit bad about him being gone. If that makes me a bad person, then so be it.

Celebrating and not feeling any sadness over one's death are two completely different things.

I do reserve the right to judge, but that doesn't mean I'm going to kill someone. I think Tiller was a piece of **** scumbag, but I didn't blow him away either. And some people DO become murderers for no reason. Read up on Dahmer and Bundy -- some people just dig on killing things. First little animals and then bigger things. And hey, I'm not in a position to say for sure, but maybe Tiller was one of those guys who dug killing and was smart enough to get paid to do it by stupid ignorants who waited until they were ready to squeeze the kid out before wondering what their options were. Or maybe he just genuinely believed that life doesn't start until you're a couple hours outside the womb or some such nonsense. Either way, I don't feel a bit bad about him being gone. If that makes me a bad person, then so be it.

Shame-usBlackley

You can judge people, but then that will implicitly invite the judgment of oneself as well. To say that some people become murderers for no reason is a fundamentally nonsensical statement - it is equivalent to the denial of the fundamental guiding principle of the entire universe, that being cause and effect: the idea that everything happens does so because it was caused by something else. One can never know every single detail and every second that passed in a person's life, and even if one could, one could still never know the structure of the person's brain, what made the person tick, whether or not the person had any mental disorders, and any number of other such intangibles. Only once one knows every single such thing can one justifiably make any declaration about a person as a whole.

And I never said that anything here makes you a bad person. That would kind of be the height of hypocrisy.

[QUOTE="Chaos_HL21"]

[QUOTE="sammyjenkis898"] The destination of the murder doesn't change how wrong it is. sammyjenkis898

I think that this is horrible, but if the person who did this is a christian it would be more horrible, because holy ground is suppose to be sacred.

You can judge people, but then that will implicitly invite the judgment of oneself as well. To say that some people become murderers for no reason is a fundamentally nonsensical statement - it is equivalent to the denial of the fundamental guiding principle of the entire universe, that being cause and effect: the idea that everything happens does so because it was caused by something else. One can never know every single detail and every second that passed in a person's life, and even if one could, one could still never know the structure of the person's brain, what made the person tick, whether or not the person had any mental disorders, and any number of other such intangibles. Only once one knows every single such thing can one justifiably make any declaration about a person as a whole.

And I never said that anything here makes you a bad person. That would kind of be the height of hypocrisy.

GabuEx

People are judging (and making judgments about you all the time) you as you walk down the street, as you talk, as you sit in a restaurant, as you buy something. A jury judges whether someone is being honest and truthful, and will punish that person depending on what their conclusion is. People are judged (and are judging) all the time.

Obviously killing innocent people is a mental disorder; but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be judged for their actions. Or that there was anything beyond being born that caused them to kill. Some people are born with all their switches wired to hot, their safeties bypassed. Sometimes those people kill people, and sometimes those people get paid by other people to do their killing for them.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

It's a nice sentiment, but it doesn't hold water. For example, If Osama bin Laden got killed tomorrow, it wouldn't sadden me in the least. Bin Laden and Tiller weren't on the same level, but I DO believe they are both murderers of the innocent, just doing so under different ideologies. I feel no sadness at all for Tiller.

Shame-usBlackley

If Osama bin Laden was killed tomorrow, would that bring a positive effect to the world? Of course it would. But that doesn't make the fact that Osama bin Laden became what he is today any less unfortunate. People don't become murderers for no reason - something somewhere caused their lives to take that path, and that is where the real tragedy lies. That's not to say we shouldn't do what we can to stop them, but I for one celebrate no one's death.

Our jobs ought to be to attempt to put those who have gone astray back onto the right path, and failing that, to protect society from those who appear to be irretrievably lost. Actions may be judged, but the judgment of a person as a whole is an action that no human being on Earth has the sufficient capacity to adequately carry out.

Celebrating and not feeling any sadness over one's death are two completely different things.

I do reserve the right to judge, but that doesn't mean I'm going to kill someone. I think Tiller was a piece of **** scumbag, but I didn't blow him away either. And some people DO become murderers for no reason. Read up on Dahmer and Bundy -- some people just dig on killing things. First little animals and then bigger things. And hey, I'm not in a position to say for sure, but maybe Tiller was one of those guys who dug killing and was smart enough to get paid to do it by stupid ignorants who waited until they were ready to squeeze the kid out before wondering what their options were. Or maybe he just genuinely believed that life doesn't start until you're a couple hours outside the womb or some such nonsense. Either way, I don't feel a bit bad about him being gone. If that makes me a bad person, then so be it.

I totally agree with what Gabu's saying, and to add, how much would it take for you to blow someone you view like that away? You're already dehumanizing them by referring to them the way that you do, and once that happens it becomes easier for one to justify acts of violence in their heads. This murderer probably would've said the exact same thing at one point in time, the only difference is that something happened with him that drove him to the act. I'm not saying that means you're a murderer, simply that dehmunaizing other people is often a first step in many murderer's progressions.

I totally agree with what Gabu's saying, and to add, how much would it take for you to blow someone you view like that away? You're already dehumanizing them by referring to them the way that you do, and once that happens it becomes easier for one to justify acts of violence in their heads. This murderer probably would've said the exact same thing at one point in time, the only difference is that something happened with him that drove him to the act. I'm not saying that means you're a murderer, simply that dehmunaizing other people is often a first step in many murderer's progressions.

theone86

What a completely disingenuous question. I could say the same thing about abortion doctors and supporters dehumanizing babies making it easier for them to move on to bigger and better things. Sorry, but: LOL.

The argument (disingenuous as it is) goes both ways. I'm not dehumanizing Tiller -- Tiller did that all on his own.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

You can judge people, but then that will implicitly invite the judgment of oneself as well. To say that some people become murderers for no reason is a fundamentally nonsensical statement - it is equivalent to the denial of the fundamental guiding principle of the entire universe, that being cause and effect: the idea that everything happens does so because it was caused by something else. One can never know every single detail and every second that passed in a person's life, and even if one could, one could still never know the structure of the person's brain, what made the person tick, whether or not the person had any mental disorders, and any number of other such intangibles. Only once one knows every single such thing can one justifiably make any declaration about a person as a whole.

And I never said that anything here makes you a bad person. That would kind of be the height of hypocrisy.

Shame-usBlackley

People are judging (and making judgments about you all the time) you as you walk down the street, as you talk, as you sit in a restaurant, as you buy something. A jury judges whether someone is being honest and truthful, and will punish that person depending on what their conclusion is. People are judged (and are judging) all the time.

Obviously killing innocent people is a mental disorder; but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be judged for their actions. Or that there was anything beyond being born that caused them to kill. Some people are born with all their switches wired to hot, their safeties bypassed. Sometimes those people kill people, and sometimes those people get paid by other people to do their killing for them.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

I totally agree with what Gabu's saying, and to add, how much would it take for you to blow someone you view like that away? You're already dehumanizing them by referring to them the way that you do, and once that happens it becomes easier for one to justify acts of violence in their heads. This murderer probably would've said the exact same thing at one point in time, the only difference is that something happened with him that drove him to the act. I'm not saying that means you're a murderer, simply that dehmunaizing other people is often a first step in many murderer's progressions.

Shame-usBlackley

What a completely disingenuous question. I could say the same thing about abortion doctors and supporters dehumanizing babies making it easier for them to move on to bigger and better things. Sorry, but: LOL.

The argument (disingenuous as it is) goes both ways. I'm not dehumanizing Tiller -- Tiller did that all on his own.

A. You are dehumanizing Tiller. Anytime you refer to someone as something other than human, such as a piece of ****, for whatever reason, you are dehumanizing them.

B. To make that argument, you'd have to prove that unborn fetuses are human life in the first place. Granted, your argument gets stronger with late-term abortions. Most pro-abortionist wouldn't support what he was doing, but regardless of public opinion he wasn't breaking the law. It's not deviant behavior when it's supported by the norms and mores of society.

Hi Shamus, I'm the scientific, psychological, and sociological community and I'd like to have a long conversation with you. One, you're going to have a very hard time finding proof that certain people are just born with switches on. There are people who spend their entire lives studying murderers, psychopaths, serial killers, and any number of people that exhibit deviant behavior and they can pretty much always find some combination of social and psychiological factors that contributes to their condition. That's not to refute chemical imbalances and the like, but not every schizophrenic is going to go off on a killing spree, there's almost always something else that contributes or sends the person over the edge. Two, killing people is not necessarily a mental disorder. It's deviant behavior to be sure, but it is not a mental disorder. Perfectly sane people are sometimes able to justify killings in their minds, or sometimes don't even justify them but just carry them out because they feel they have to. Psychic and social factors often play significant roles, but that does not mean every murderer has a mental disorder.theone86

I'm not saying every killer suffers from a mental disorder, but lacking the ability to feel remorse for killing certainly helps. I was primarily disagreeing with the notion that every killer has a reason for killing.

People are judging (and making judgments about you all the time) you as you walk down the street, as you talk, as you sit in a restaurant, as you buy something. A jury judges whether someone is being honest and truthful, and will punish that person depending on what their conclusion is. People are judged (and are judging) all the time.

Obviously killing innocent people is a mental disorder; but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be judged for their actions. Or that there was anything beyond being born that caused them to kill. Some people are born with all their switches wired to hot, their safeties bypassed. Sometimes those people kill people, and sometimes those people get paid by other people to do their killing for them.

Shame-usBlackley

The fact that people are judging all the time does not make it a good thing. There are a lot of things that people do all the time that they would be better off not doing.

And everything that you have described in the legal system is judging the person's actions, not judging the person themselves. People are sentenced in court based on what they did; no one has ever been sentenced on the charge of "first degree being a bad person". Like I said, there is nothing wrong with judging actions; the point at which I feel people overextend their capabilities is when they begin to judge people as a whole, by saying that someone is bad, or evil, or whatever other negative adjective one wishes to use.

Really, I found that recognizing what I'm saying is as much for your own benefit as it is for anyone else's. As long as you are still judging people freely, you will always be shackled down by hatred or distaste against those whom you judge negatively. The moment you understand what I'm saying is the moment that you can understand that there is no need, and indeed, no justification for hating another person - there is justification for hating what a person does, certainly, but the moment the person no longer does whatever it is, then the hatred, too, can stop. And the moment that that happens is, at least in my experience, the moment that real happiness can be possible.

I'm not saying every killer suffers from a mental disorder, but lacking the ability to feel remorse for killing certainly helps. I was primarily disagreeing with the notion that every killer has a reason for killing.

Shame-usBlackley

Whether or not someone has a mental disorder does not affect whether or not the person has a reason for what he or she does. If someone has a mental disorder, they still act in a logical manner to themselves. It's just that the fundamental premise for their actions - their perception of reality - is not in accordance with everyone else's.

Like I said, to dispute the idea that people do what they do for a reason is akin to disputing the fundamental principle of cause and effect. Everyone does what they do because they feel that it is the best way to achieve their desires in life - and one certainly is not capable of changing one's desires in life on a whim.

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

I totally agree with what Gabu's saying, and to add, how much would it take for you to blow someone you view like that away? You're already dehumanizing them by referring to them the way that you do, and once that happens it becomes easier for one to justify acts of violence in their heads. This murderer probably would've said the exact same thing at one point in time, the only difference is that something happened with him that drove him to the act. I'm not saying that means you're a murderer, simply that dehmunaizing other people is often a first step in many murderer's progressions.

theone86

What a completely disingenuous question. I could say the same thing about abortion doctors and supporters dehumanizing babies making it easier for them to move on to bigger and better things. Sorry, but: LOL.

The argument (disingenuous as it is) goes both ways. I'm not dehumanizing Tiller -- Tiller did that all on his own.

A. You are dehumanizing Tiller. Anytime you refer to someone as something other than human, such as a piece of ****, for whatever reason, you are dehumanizing them.

B. To make that argument, you'd have to prove that unborn fetuses are human life in the first place. Granted, your argument gets stronger with late-term abortions. Most pro-abortionist wouldn't support what he was doing, but regardless of public opinion he wasn't breaking the law. It's not deviant behavior when it's supported by the norms and mores of society.

I call a lot of people a piece of ****. It's not dehumanizing them, it's calling them as I see them. I think Obama's a turd, too -- but does that stem from me wanting to take his humanity away, or simply that I feel his reckless actions jeopardize the future of the country? I think Bush is a piece of **** for starting the socialist nonsense last year, but is that me dehumanizing him? Or is it just that I hate seeing a Republican go Socialist? I think anyone who pulls a breathing baby from a womb days before it would be born is a piece of **** too, and I would level that at ANY doctor doing it, not just Tiller. I'm not dehumanizing him -- the act dehumanizes the one doing it.

Late term abortions have resulted in breathing fetuses being discarded in plastic bags and thrown in dumpsters to suffocate. Do you consider something that breathes to be alive? And late-term and partial birth (while not illegal) are far, far, far from the 'norms' and 'social mores' of society. How did you feel about slave ownership being left to the norms and mores?

And everything that you have described in the legal system is judging the person's actions, not judging the person themselves. People are sentenced in court based on what they did; no one has ever been sentenced on the charge of "first degree being a bad person". Like I said, there is nothing wrong with judging actions; the point at which I feel people overextend their capabilities is when they begin to judge people as a whole, by saying that someone is bad, or evil, or whatever other negative adjective one wishes to use.

Really, I found that recognizing what I'm saying is as much for your own benefit as it is for anyone else's. As long as you are still judging people freely, you will always be shackled down by hatred or distaste against those whom you judge negatively. The moment you understand what I'm saying is the moment that you can understand that there is no need, and indeed, no justification for hating another person - there is justification for hating what a person does, certainly, but the moment the person no longer does whatever it is, then the hatred, too, can stop. And the moment that that happens is, at least in my experience, the moment that real happiness can be possible.

GabuEx

You say "don't judge people" and the proceed to make judgments about how forming opinions based on the actions of others has a negative affect, which is judging. I rest my case -- like I said, everyone judges everyone.

Actions and the Individual are inexorably linked -- intertwined to the point of being indistinguishable in many cases.

You say "don't judge people" and the proceed to make judgments about how forming opinions based on the actions of others has a negative affect, which is judging. I rest my case -- like I said, everyone judges everyone.

Shame-usBlackley

I say "don't judge people", and then I proceed to make judgments about actions... which is exactly what I've been saying all along is the right thing to judge. I have never judged any person here; I am judging the act of judging a person without passing any judgment at all over those who do so - they have their reasons, just like anyone else. That I believe that they would be benefited by not doing so does not in any way mean that I think that they are a bad person for doing so; it means that I have recognized that something in their life has led them to the belief that doing so is a good idea, and I am simply trying to convince them otherwise.

Actions and the Individual are inexorably linked -- intertwined to the point of being indistinguishable in many cases.

Shame-usBlackley

Actions and the individual are not inexorably linked. That's exactly what I'm saying. People can change; actions cannot. If they were so linked, then what do you call a person who does something evil today and then does something good tomorrow? If a person were defined by what he or she does, then you would have to call that person an evil person today and a good person tomorrow - effectively admitting what I've said all along: that all attempts to judge people as a whole, especially based on their actions in life, are futile at best.

An action is easily judged. It has effects, and the positive or negative nature of those effects can be observed. You know, in most cases, all of the relevant facts that are required to fairly judge that action. People, however, not so much. As I've already said, you do not know the person's history; you do not know the person's mind; you do not know the person's motivation; you do not know the person's perception of reality. You do not really know anything that would enable you to truly fairly judge a person.

You're welcome to disregard what I'm saying, but I'm not saying it for my benefit; I'm saying it for yours. Perhaps Nietzsche said it best: "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster." When someone judges another person in a negative manner, and thereby grows to hate that person, he will only become closer and closer to what he hates in that person for as long as that hatred is present. Hatred is perhaps the most dangerous poison of all: it is extremely slow-acting, such that by the time someone recognizes the damage it has done - or even that it is present - it will have done a great deal of it; and far from simply poisoning someone's body and degrading their health, it poisons their soul and degrades their entire life. The only positive part is that, as soon as one can recognize its negative effects, the antidote is simple, and the damage can be contained immediately.

Right to life means right to kill?

I don't support resorting to violence, but Tiller died involuntarily by someone else's hand, just as he had killed fully viable pre born humans with his own hands. Color me unsaddened.

Wow, I'm disgusted by the comments by some of the anti-abortionists in this thread, they actually say somebody deserved to die and then claim to want to protect the living. It's just the sort of hipocricy I expect from people who oppose abortions.

Wow, I'm disgusted by the comments by some of the anti-abortionists in this thread, they actually say somebody deserved to die and then claim to want to protect the living. It's just the sort of hipocricy I expect from people who oppose abortions.

yoshi-lnex

Wow, I'm disgusted by the comments by some of the anti-abortionists in this thread, they actually say somebody deserved to die and then claim to want to protect the living. It's just the sort of hipocricy I expect from people who oppose abortions.

yoshi-lnex

My thoughts exactly.

Pot. Kettle. Black

Gotta love those radical anti-abortionists...

"GRR! I HATE ABORTION DOCTORS! THEY'RE MURDERERS, ALL OF 'EM!"

"So, what're you gonna do about it?"

"IMMA GONNA GO KILL ME AN ABORTION DOCTOR!"

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Dude, stop sympathizing with terrorists. For all the talk of comparing the abortion doctor to bin laden, it's the other way around. The KILLER is more like Bin Laden, murdering to send a message. And yeah, now we see that abortion doctors aren't even safe at church. Terrorism in its truest form.

Shame-usBlackley

I don't sympathize with the twit who did the shooting, either. His actions set my argument back, and I don't appreciate that. I'm saying that the idea of being saddened by the death of someone merely on the merits of a human being being killed doesn't hold water, because there are a dozens of people who have been (or could be) killed that wouldn't bother me at all due to things they've done to other humans.

We're talking about an extremist doctor -- one of only three in the country (now two) who perform these types of abortions. And please -- stop with the sycophant liberal diarrhea about 'terrorism.' I don't hear you complaining about all the babies this guy 'terrorized.'

Yeah, because abortion isn't terrorism. Dude, YOU were the one who brought up an Osama Bin Laden comparison, not me.

I think both abortion and Tiller specifically are wrong. I'm not, however, going to sympathize with the monster that killed him. [QUOTE="yoshi-lnex"]

Wow, I'm disgusted by the comments by some of the anti-abortionists in this thread, they actually say somebody deserved to die and then claim to want to protect the living. It's just the sort of hipocricy I expect from people who oppose abortions.

Genetic_Code

Nope, last time I checked, abortion was legal ;). So, Tiller didn't give up any rights.

Besides, assassination =/= death penalty. Even someone who was caught in the act of murdering another deserves the right to a fair trial.

These people aren't pro-life, they're killing doctors! What kind of pro-life is that? What, they'll do anything they can to save a fetus but if it grows up to be a doctor they just might have to kill it?They're not pro-life. You know what they are? They're anti-woman. Simple as it gets, anti-woman. They don't like them. They don't like women.They believe a woman's primary role is to function as a brood mare for the state.

-Geoge Carlin

yeah it was posted. yeah lets kill those who dont agree with us12Bullets

These people aren't pro-life, they're killing doctors! What kind of pro-life is that? What, they'll do anything they can to save a fetus but if it grows up to be a doctor they just might have to kill it?They're not pro-life. You know what they are? They're anti-woman. Simple as it gets, anti-woman. They don't like them. They don't like women.They believe a woman's primary role is to function as a brood mare for the state.

-Geoge Carlin

jazznate

Hardcore "Pro-life" activists need to change their perspective for the better. Dr. Tiller did what he had to because he understood the implications of foetuses with genetic defects like trisomy 18, diseases associated with nueral tube malformations, hydroencephaly etc There is absolutely no hope for foetuses with such genetic defects as modern medicine has no definite cure or procedures to correct these abnormalities, no doubt alot of research is going on with this regard but the prospects of the foetus surviving after delivery are nil without the use of extensive life support systems. There is no question of a "normal" life. Expecting mothers who recieve the cruel news are burdened with the choice of going ahead with the pregnancy only to see their child die, either that or to abort. Many couples choose to abort the pregnancy as they feel that its a battle lost. They have no choice!! Unfortunately, there are again couples with healthy foetuses who choose to abort maybe due to financial difficulties, or emotional unstability, whatever the reason, these are the people that "pro-life" activists need to convince not to abort their child. And the doctors who choose to go ahead with such abortions are either financially desperate or have no sense of human life. There is a difference between aborting a absolutely healthy foetus and a genetically malformed one.

I deeply sympathise with Dr. Tiller's family.

Hardcore "Pro-life" activists need to change their perspective for the better. Dr. Tiller did what he had to because he understood the implications of foetuses with genetic defects like trisomy 18, diseases associated with nueral tube malformations, hydroencephaly etc There is absolutely no hope for foetuses with such genetic defects as modern medicine has no definite cure or procedures to correct these abnormalities, no doubt alot of research is going on with this regard but the prospects of the foetus surviving after delivery are nil without the use of extensive life support systems. There is no question of a "normal" life. Expecting mothers who recieve the cruel news are burdened with the choice of going ahead with the pregnancy only to see their child die, either that or to abort. Many couples choose to abort the pregnancy as they feel that its a battle lost. They have no choice!! Unfortunately, there are again couples with healthy foetuses who choose to abort maybe due to financial difficulties, or emotional unstability, whatever the reason, these are the people that "pro-life" activists need to convince not to abort their child. And the doctors who choose to go ahead with such abortions are either financially desperate or have no sense of human life. There is a difference between aborting a absolutely healthy foetus and a genetically malformed one.

I deeply sympathise with Dr. Tiller's family.

On another day, I would've pushed calling the killer a terrorist as well as a murderer.

You really can't justify a murder of Dr Tiller, I'm sure the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" makes no expections, and I doubt the law will too. In all, a good doctor carryng out a service that these women wanted him to carry out died because some barbaric human got a little too serious over the abortion issue, which is all but over, abortion is legal, please get over it.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more the killer seems like a terrorist to the "pro-choice" people after all. I hope justice is given for poor Dr. Tiller and his family, who I fully sympathise with.

Smile at these ridiculous anti-abortion comments.. The more extreme they get the more embarrassment they will gain and the more popularity they will lose.. The United States is a nation of compromising, the so called "pro-life" movement (which they are not in the least, look at the numerous legislations they support as well as well as supporting the Iraq War.. Something that has claimed numerous lives..) has been becoming extremely unbendable, and its risking its support.. sSubZerOo

There is a difference between killing terrorists and unborn fetuses.

:lol: @ the Righties justifying murder in a church. And I repeat: MURDER IN A CHURCH .

I may not agree with all the doctor did, but everything he did was legal. If you anti-abortion / murder-in-a-church-sympathizers want abortion to be illegal, then get your politicians elected. Maybe if the Righties stopped listening to nutjobs like Limbaugh, Beck & Hannity, you guys would be in power.