Miyamoto : Time to get back to core games

Gamespot article.

"Part of the reason why Miyamoto contends that Nintendo's games no longer need to appeal to casual gamers is because iOS and Android smartphones and tablets have taken root.

"In the days of DS and Wii, Nintendo tried its best to expand the gaming population," he said. "Fortunately, because of the spread of smart devices, people take games for granted now. It's a good thing for us, because we do not have to worry about making games something that are relevant to general people's daily lives."

I assume there's a new attitude at Nintendo seeing how bad the Wii U is doing. So, let's see how true this is. Lets see if Nintendo's next batch of games are, in fact, more core games.

If they think the casual gamer is gone there's no way only children can keep the company afloat

Was literally just about to click the "Create new topic" button. Phew. Glad you did it instead.

Mr. Miyamoto also said this;

"[These are] the sort of people who, for example, might want to watch a movie. They might want to go to Disneyland," he said. "Their attitude is, 'OK, I am the customer. You are supposed to entertain me.' It's kind of a passive attitude they're taking, and to me it's kind of a pathetic thing. They do not know how interesting it is if you move one step further and try to challenge yourself [with more advanced games]."

"Because of the spread of smart devices, people take games for granted now," he said, adding that this shift was a good thing for Nintendo. Moving away from the casual market, Miyamoto says, means they no longer have to worry about making games that are relevant to the daily live's of the general public."

I hope this all leads to Nintendo trying harder to get back 3rd party support, as that is something that the "Core audience" would want.

It may be too late for Wii U, but still get back on 3rd parties good sides so perhaps they'll have good support for their next home console.

That he calls "passive" gaming a pathetic thing is a bit harsh, imo. I'm assuming there's a translation issue there, I would hope Miyamoto wouldn't actually say that.

But the message seems to be what people on these forums have been saying for a long time. Tablets and phones now have that casual Wii audience, which is why they didn't rush to the Wii U (among other reasons), so making games for that market makes no sense. I think Nintendo thought that there weren't enough core gamers to make business sense to cater to. And now that the PS4 has sold 10 million and the X1 half that, Nintendo realizes they made a mistake in targeting "the whole family". Maybe not a mistake, but more of a realization that that market is not there anymore.

Again, I can only hope that at the very least, that means we'll get a "core" Metroid game and maybe even a new IP that's more for adults in themes.

@pikachudude860, that last line you quoted about no longer making games relevant to people's daily lives...does that mean that Quality of Life is going away?

And yea, as I was posting this, I thought "when I refresh, pikachudude will have posted this already", so I almost didn't.

nintendo should have stuck with the wiimote and made the console on par with xbox/sony and launched with wii sports club online packed in.

instead they completetly did a 180 on the casuals....

i have no problem with it as a nintendo gamer. but sales reports are there for everyone to laugh at.

@Grieverr:

It could be a translation error, I don't no. But I thought of what the people on these fourms said too.

But when Miyamoto says "Core" gamer, does he mean "hardcore" gamers? (People who buy and play lots of different games pretty often)

And you know, maybe they are thinking about dropping QOL. I know a lot of people would be happy if they did. Though I was interested to know exactly what they were intending to do with it.

Sorry about that. I mostly make threads of interesting news that I don't see on here, or to share opinions. One of our threads would of gotten locked for sure.

@pikachudude860: No need for sorries, man. I'm glad you're keeping the topics flowing!

@KBFloYd: I think Nintendo thought the casuals would flock to the gamepad, since everyone has a tablet these days. That seems to have worked out very well :)

As far as hard/core, I just want games that aren't purposely limited so that "everyone" can enjoy it. Don't dumb down any Zelda puzzles. Don't limit the action, monsters, and scenarios in Metroid to keep an "E" rating (that may be a bad example, not sure if Metroid Prime was rated T). That's what I'd like to see. I don't necessarily need Nintendo to come out with a dudebro shooter or anything like that.

I don't think it will be their next batch of games..he did mention *future*..which I think might be referring to their next console. It is surprising & interesting to hear someone like him come out & say this though. Hopefully less mini games in one package game. Hopefully their future Mario games will be more challenging rather than giving you 100 lives easily. :P

This makes me more optimistic (I have been since Iwata's talk about what they're going to try and do next generation) about the future of Nintendo, hopefully Nintendo can make games and hardware to the BEST of their ability starting next generation. And Miyamoto's comments did make me laugh and smile a bit. :)

But let's be real, if Nintendo was making money from the people who bought Wii and DS in droves now, they wouldn't change a thing. They know those people left in 2008 for phones and tablets and they're not coming back.

Probably not, though Wii U's surely got a couple handfuls of gems left in the tank. They're going to move on as soon as they can though, that's for sure... Wii U will still last until 2017, at any rate.

Nintendo realized the potential of passive gamers back in the early days of the DS. Since then they have completely lost that crowd to companies that have more resources, infrastructure, and vision. Apple and Google are brands much more recognizable and relevant to a potential passive gaming crowd that weighs listening to music through a streaming app as just as important or even more valuable than a deep or just plain fun game.

My advice to Nintendo? Focus on a legitimate crowd and fully feature your platform with software that is meaningful throughout a year. If you are going to go after a passive gaming crowd, a tablet controller with lower resolution, more expensive, weaker battery, less accurate touchscreen tech, and portability of 15 ft is the wrong path. I think they could have done so much more with a multiplatform app that allows you to connect smartphones and tablets. Nintendoland was nowhere near as viral or appealing as Wii Sports. Wii Sports Club has no legitimate coverage. Also a creative drawing app that comes packaged with the console would have done them wonders.

If you are now going to return focus to gamers then keep optimizing your operating system, release more than just different variations of sidescrollers, eShop still needs tons of work, online features still feel like original Xbox standards, and we really need more than SSB/MK in the fun multiplayer category.

There is money to be made in the hardcore and if Nintendo really pushes for more depth and challenge in their franchises they could entice more serious gaymers back.

Exactly how I feel you said it better.

Sounds like Miyamoto is mad that the Wii "passive" gamers didn't end up buying the Wii U. Go ahead and try to appeal to the core gamers then. It does look like you'll need them now more than ever to help the Wii U.

The casual audience evaporated. Now that smart devices and tablets are widespread and cheap, they've moved on. The philosophy behind Wii failed, which was the idea that casual gamers who tried Wii Sports would gradually try new, core games. Core gamers, however, never left. It's a bit like salt water. After the water evaporates, you're left with the salt in the bottom. That salt, the audience that never leaves, should be what Nintendo tries to cater to the most.

I hope this means a turn for the better.

Seems that Miyamoto has learned the lesson that causal gamers do not support the videogame industry. While the Wii sold well, none of those non gamer people, bought a Wii U and stuck by Nintendo.

Miyamoto hopefully will make some core games and having learned a tough lesson will turn things around for the 9th Generation.

This means a more expensive next gen console. I'm fine with that as long as the specs deliver for the price.

I'm really sorry, but I'm having a hard time feeling for Nintendo here.

Let's take Miyamoto's quote and put a spin on it (my changes in bold, underlined and last sentence re-arranged):

"[These are] the sort of people who, for example, might want to buy a movie. They might want to investin Disneyland," he said. "Their attitude is, 'OK, I am the customer. You are supposed to entertain me.' They know how interesting it is if you move one step further and try to challenge yourself [with more advanced games]."It's kind of a active attitude they're taking, and to me it's kind of a pathetic thing".

How would people feel if he said that instead? Because, as far as I'm concerned, Nintendo HAS been saying exactly this for years to core gamers. It is the mentality they have taken to be able to milk that almighty cash-cow know as the casual. The changes in marketing, the changes in the types of games they've chosen to produce, their entire approach. While sure, they made sure to retain some degree of what they once were with a selection of core titles they released, they at the same time largely threw a huge middle finger at the core.

And now they say this? Nintendo's going to have to do some hard work to even begin to get me fully behind them again, because they've shown what they truly care for. They have no vision and no plan. They're not thinking of the long-term, and now they're paying the price for their shortsightedness. No casual, so back to the core, with elements of their infrastructure (online, DD) deteriorating and still years in the past, relations worse than ever (third parties), and an audience that DO care for games as more than a passing interest now barely giving a care for them anymore that hold a large feeling of animosity and resentment.

It makes me livid to hear this come from a Nintendo executive.

@Jaysonguy:

Ha, stupid JasonGuy, wants some facts? Here you go, watch this lovely video and be educated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6nYz1HHPJU

Apparently out of the 7.5 million Wii U owners out there, only 1% of them are between the ages of 0-12, when almost all Wii U owners are between 18-34 even as the guy himself states. But of course you will some how spin this around in some useless way.

@Grieverr: Dev's can say harsh stuff you know. Kamiya for example told Smash fans to F*** off before. Miyamoto can say harsh things. I do as well, alot of devs can be harsh, doesn't mean anything though.

@Master_Of_Fools: I agree, I don't think it means anything. I just think the word "pathetic" is harsh, if that is what he said.

@MirkoS77: Miyamoto's comment shows me that the truth has FINALLY slapped Nintendo in the face. I think the 10 million PS4s sold has shown Nintendo that they don't need the numbers from attracting a casual crowd (who cannot be counted on as a customer). That the money is there with the core gamer who will spend and buy many games. And now they will start scrambling to gain back at least some of their following who they have disappointed and lost.

Like I said, the games we know are coming are already in development and I don't expect much change. But I hope they apply whatever changes they're making to Zelda and Star Fox for that core gamer. And they better get cracking on Metroid.

Also, the Wii was a one time deal for Nintendo. I never got the hype. Even my parents got one for christmas since everybody said how cool it was. We played Wii bowling maybe 6 times and since then it stuck in the living room. I know a lot of people who made the same 'mistake'. Many people realized they don't use it so there is no reason for another console.

The real issue is why did they pull the carpet out from under their core fanbase in the first place. Miyamoto blatantly admitting that they are going to refocus attention, indicates they actively and intentionally ignored software/features that would have kept them from all the problems that are now compounded into a huge monster.

It is clear that passive gamers only need one big significant viral game like Wii Sports a year whereas core games need so much more. There needs to be a wide variety in genres and scope for dedicated habitual gamers. This is still not reflected in their lineups yet.

Heck Wii Sports was enough for some passive gamers for an entire generation. I have a neighbor that is a mother of 2 that only played Wii Sports and was not even aware of Wii Sports Resort was released, but was completely content with that one game.

What I don't get is how he could come out and say this now as if it's some sudden revelation. It feels to me more like a statement made out of spite than actual belief. If the casuals were still pouring in the $$$, he'd not be singing this tune.

But still, what he said is an obvious observation in any industry.....you are going to have those who hold a deeper focus, i.e. the "core", and then you are going to have those that have nothing more than passing interests. How could Nintendo honestly believe those people would become core gamers, much less now hold animosity towards them simply for holding to their nature?

@MirkoS77: 3rd party does sell no more than 2m on Wii and at this rate same for Wii U.

That is why no support + they need to lose there ridiculously stupid 8yr old kid image. The average gamer is in their fucking 30s.

They go where the money is, when they should be building their brand and their platform. They lack a solid platform. Its inconsistent and back pedaling. Nintendo always seems to be the first out the gate on many aspects of consumer electronics. They have incredible vision, they lack the money, infrastructure and technology to sustain it once it has been trail blazed. Look at this article, many of the innovations have been taken by bigger companies to the next level: "11 Gaming Innovations". Selfies, portable applications; these things we made standard by Nintendo but captured by the likes of Sony, MS and Apple. Sony took a huge portion of their market share following the SNES with the Playstation. Apple holds the attention of those that were buying Wii Sports and Wii Fit.

What Nintendo can always make money on is their fanbase, but they neglect their attention so often. They assume that 4 Mario games, 2 niche underdeveloped new IPs, and 4 more sidescrollers is enough for a core audience.

I have a hard time believing that this is what Miyamoto actually meant, I feel like this is a mistranslation.

He's not the type of person to call an audience pathetic.

The only they can do that is to axe Mario/Zelda/Pokemon, but doing that in turn would alienate their remaining fans to the point of NO return. They tried to publish games for a more Mature audience in the N64 and GC eras and are trying again this gen, but it only ever worked in the N64 era (when they still had RARE), with it biting them in the ass in the GC era and looking for failure in the Wii U as evidenced by a certain game's announcement with an outcry to follow.

Probably right, it's called sensationalized journalism.

I agree that it was harsh. Furthermore, it is unexpected. I do not know Miyamoto-san personally, but I consider his games a reflection of his mentality. Mario, Fox McCloud, and Donkey Kong; and Zelda; and the others are all assertive characters, but not in such a manner. That is why the report of him saying such a thing is is strange.

In any case, I am excited about what Nintendo is planning for individuals who play challenging video games regularly.

I don't know man, a few years ago I'd have agreed Nintendo was a company with vision, but today their idea of vision seem to be nothing more than a "let's throw this at the wall and see if it sticks" mentality. They feel like a company in chaos. Confused, not knowing what they want nor how to get it, with an audience that largely feels confused and fragmented/frustrated themselves. I really don't understand what Nintendo desires. They wanted the casual, now they don't. So they want the core, but they're also family focused? They want their games all accessible, yet now claim towards the core again?

I'd say Sony holds the best focus and vision I've yet seen so far.....they're going after the core with a laser.

@MirkoS77

not all Those things are mutually exclusive...

I hope this means that Nintendo have basically realized that they've been targeting the wrong audience all this time. They target children (and a family-orientated audience), but it seems to me that kids these days are playing MA, "cool" games like Call of Duty and other shooter clones whereas games like Pokemon and Zelda appeal to a more adult audience. (This is likely due to nostalgia though). In other words, they are trying to cater to an audience that completely ignores them and then completely ignore their real audience.

I also think they've dug themselves a huge hole and they are now trapped. They rely too much on Mario, Zelda, and other big franchises to the point where it will be very difficult to turn back. Eventually Mario will stop making them dough, as the nature of all things is to deteriorate, and they will have no either franchise to turn to.

Edit: Why is my text bolded?! o_O