Why complain to devs about exploits in single player?

Being OP or breaking the game when you can simply avoid using them and still play the game and get the same challenge originally intended by the dev? Playing a legit playthrough through games that require hours of boring farming once is enough for me.

During new playthroughs, I think it's pretty cool having exploits that cut down on hours of boring farming when I'm mainly interested in trying out new characters, seeing different outcomes etc.

Especially with family, work and other obligations, my gaming time is not what it once was. So spending a 2nd playthrough, doing hours of chorefest farming is not on my agenda.

It's cool if you feel using exploits is cheating and you don't feel right using them. I can also understand devs patching up exploits in MP since that affects everyone else playing. But what is the payoff in requesting devs to patch an exploit in a single player game, when you can simply not use them at all?

I don't think it really matters why. If they want to report exploits they can and then it's left up to the developer whether or not they want to fix them.

Players will generally gravitate towards doing what is efficient rather than what is fun. Any game, whether single or multi, will lead to people using those exploits even if they end up being super boring and repetitive at the cost of doing what was intended and more fun. This will generally lead to a word-of-mouth reputation that your game is boring and unfun because in order to be successful you must X amount of time doing Y exploit. This is not good as the game then gets a negative, undeserved reputation.

You give players too much credit to act as rational agents. EDIT: Or rather, consider gamers as rational agents when it comes to efficiency, even if it comes at the cost of making the game super boring for themselves and others.

For MP games I agree. But not so much in SP. What we now call exploits used to be fun, easter eggs that were sometimes end game unlockables after finishing the campaign in SP or input commands. Up, Down, Left, Right, A, B ring a bell?

It's rare that any SP game I enjoy, I thought to myself 'doing this exploit is more boring than playing the legit way'. If I did find an exploit that was boring, too time consuming, or OP like the fortify restoration glitch in Skyrim, I would simply avoid using it. I didn't feel compelled to demand Bethesda remove the exploit.

Look up any player feedback for any popular game and you see players are the ones on dev gaming boards demanding 'this exploit is OP or breaks the game, please remove it' to compensate for their own lack of self-control or the idea that anyone using the exploit is a noob and everyone needs to be a pro and spend hundreds of hours play legit like them in every single playthrough.

At the least, these exploits should be unlockable bonuses rewarded for completing the campaign.

Also to counter your theory, there are many games like GTA for example that players look forward to having fun with single player cheats and exploits. One of the main questions, fans were asking when GTA V was announced is 'what fun cheats will be included this time around?'

I don't complain to the devs about exploits..... I come here and bitch about it to you guys.....

and what qualifies as an Exploit in Dark Souls ? Drake Sword ?

@XaosII:

You NAILED It ! :)

Edit: Wait wait wait.... hangon...... what if the exploits are not boring vut instead just less fun...... what if people prefer a broken game ? I'm pretty sure thats the larger problem..... people actually enjoying bad design......

You are talking about several different things, so i'll try to address them.

I don't consider easter eggs or cheat codes to be unfun (usually), because they are intended by the developers. Crazy damage, invincibility, and unlimited ammo cheats can be fine for players even if they implicitly understand that it can get boring after a while. But you usually have the ability to turn them off and on, and few players consider these as abilities that they've "earned" in the game.

Now think for a moment about this: In loot heavy games, why has no developer implemented a cheat where you can craft your own item with whatever stats, abilities, and appearance you want? I mean, some of these games already have crafting systems, why not just add in a cheat to allow *anything* you want? Because the amount of work that will likely take the player to make said items, and likely because they will be crazy overpowered, that they will feel that they deserved the item and it gives the impression that the "best way" to play the game is to cheat craft your own items. This also removes the main incentive to play in loot heavy games.

Its funny, its not that much different than the initial cheats as a concept right? But the fact that it takes more time and work for the player makes it psychologically a very different mechanism. And i think you are severely underestimating the psychological effect of gaming and the player.

Consider, Destiny, while i know its a multiplayer game, i can assure you that the majority of players right now are doing extremely specific repetitive runs of a single specific mission because it happens to yield a measurable 2% increase in loot because its faster to do that mission compared to any other. Despite the fact that they'd likely have more fun doing a larger variety of missions, they stick to the same exact ones over and over because its more efficient. And how did so many players know that? because word got around and it ended up being "this is how to best play the game."

The same pretty much holds true for even single player games. RPG where grinding in a very specific segment or a very specific circuit yields monsters/loot at a very fast rate? Players will spend hours doing that over and over because its efficient (even if its boring.) Open world game? Players will repeat a task or mission because it provides the most amount of money per minute, over and over (even if its boring). Even if in some of these very games they could simply cheat and instantly get a bazillion in-game dollars, many would still rather play the game to earn it.... but they'd like to earn it in a fashion they've worked for it, but they are also interested in doing it efficiently.

Think back to what i said about loot heavy games and a craft anything cheat. Toggle invincibility and infinite damage? "Thats fun and nifty, but it doesnt feel like a reward." Spent 40 minutes crafting my dream armor set and weapons that effectively do the same as invincibility? "Well, i earned that, so thats how i should play the game."

I know it sounds weird, and rarely will a player admit to such a thought process. But, well, they naturally gravitate to things like that.

In short, the most efficient way to play ends up becoming the so-called "best way" to play by its community. Many people will do so, even at the expense of fun.

@XaosII:

"because they are intended by the developers. "

If theres one argument that pisses me off to no end.... its that one and every variation of it.....

I hope I didn't go too far in saying that..... I don't like sounding like an asshole.

I get what you're saying but most times, devs themselves will implement time saving 'shortcut' exploits as a way to bypass farming portions of a game for QA and glitch spotting purposes to smooth as many bugs possible before launch. Especially in RPG's and open world games, no way are in house beta testers have time to repeat the same 40 hour farming grind, over and over to get to the portions in the game where players may run into quest breaking bugs or conflicting choice archs preventing one quest from being given because you already completed a 'later stage' quest before you were supposed to.

I believe sometimes devs forget to remove these 'shortcuts' before game launch and it's only a matter of time before speedrunners or PC players will discover these shortcuts. My thing is, in the event that this is the case, why complain to a dev about a discovered shortcut exploit ruining your game when you can simply not do it?

I must also reiterate my previous point about not everyone having time to spend an additional hours in a 2nd or 3rd playthrough of a massive RPG / open world game, farming the same areas or repeating the same boring side quests over and over for gear, loot, just to experience new choices and different outcomes.

I'm not saying every RPG / open world game should come with demi-god cheats. What I am saying is if 'shortcut exploits' were mistakenly left in these games from devs, it hurts no one to leave them in and everyone wins. Purist gamers who don't mind 40 minute grinds every new playthrough can feel satisfaction farming and earning spoils, and gamers with limited game time can bypass or cut down on farming and spend more time enjoying the story.

Farming and grinding is cool to a certain extent in all RPG / open world games when it's rewarding and doesn't feel like a chore. On the other hand, when you factor in crap like RNG's determining lottery loot drops, being level 20 and still farming level 10 gear, that's when it gets ridiculous imo. To each his own but RNG heavy games like Destiny grew boring for me very quickly after trying out the beta for a few hours and thankfully I was able to save $60.

PC players can simply enter console commands or install mods to bypass RNG crap, even if shortcut exploits are patched by the dev. Console players are pretty much screwed since these shortcuts are the closest thing they have to mods.

@HipHopBeats: You can point out examples, even ones that make sense from a perfectly rational point of view, but i can promise you, if you talk to a developer, my response is *exactly* what a developer will tell you.

Lets put it in another context. Lets pretend you have your own company, and you want to make "HipHopRacing." Its a singleplayer only racing game where you start out with a crappy "Busted Bettle 300" and slowly work your way up to progressively better cars, until you get to some sleek, badass super cars. Lets say theres 25 different tracks and the game's story/campaign mode has you go through all 25.

You decide to make the "PhantomCruze XSi." It is ,without a doubt, the best car in the game. You figure, you'll make it as an unlockable/achievement for "Win 50 races." You figure, playing the campaign, redoing a few tracks, and maybe playing a few other modes will be enough to get the best car in the game. Alright, everything is fine, and once the game is out, you think you might get some player reviews saying, "HipHopRacing is good, but its a little easy." Not the worst feedback, but you can live with it.

Now, you know this to be the case, so you decide to increase it to "Win 1000 races." You figure the best car in the game should be something meant to feel special, rare, and well earned. It should be a reward for your biggest fans and for the hardcore player who really loves "HipHopRacing."

If you do that, you'll have again, a very sizeable portion of your player base playing the shortest track, on the easiest difficulty over and over and over again, just to get the car. Lets say it takes 1 minute and 30 seconds to complete that track. Doesn't mater that its boring, but they want the car, and this is the least effort way to get it. At this point, you can probably expect to get some undeserved community feedback like so: "HipHopRacing is alright, but its kinda boring since you're just gonna end up doing the same tracks over and over again." <<< This statement lacks context; after all, you'll only be repeating the same track, *if* you intend to get the best car in the most efficient but boring way possible. Unfortunately, you've now associated your game with the word "boring."

Heres the kicker: Thats not even a glitch or exploit. Its just logical deduction of "how do i get the car the fastest."

Now, in the quest to get that sweet "PhantomCruzer XSi" even faster, someone manages to take a 5 minute track and find an obscure glitch where if you ram part of the geometry at a specific angle and speed, the car fall off the game's world and respawns much, much closer to the finish line. You can now complete this track in about 1 minute every time with this glitch and exploiting it.

You wanna take a guess at the feedback your game will earn in parts of your community? "HipHopRacing is alright, but its kinda boring since you're just gonna end up doing the same tracks over and over. Its also buggy, lol." Great, you've associated your game now with boring *and* buggy.

Players felt the need to not just bore themselves in the process of getting the best car, but also to attempt to exploit weird glitches just to improve that efficiency slightly.

In a bubble, of one player just exploiting something for his own enjoyment, you are absolutely 100% right and you make perfect logical sense. But the internet makes nothing into a bubble. The fact that a surprisingly large amount of players will bore themselves and then start telling the community, be it implicitly or explicitly, that this is how the game "should" be played, can create some serious image problems for your game. This is made only worse in multiplayer due to the competitive nature; not only does the most boring, but efficient playstyle become the way the community thinks it "should" be played, but it quickly becomes the only way to stay competitive, because someone else is gonna exploit their way to the top.

You make perfectly logical arguments: I don't exploit till im bored. Some players just don't have the time to play. Not everyone's gonna grind forever. Purists can be pure; cheaters can cheat. Yup, you are totally right.

People aren't as logical as you.

Heres an example of a developer talking, pretty much exactly what i've been saying. (you only need to watch a few minutes of it, but if you are interested in game design, i'd encourage you to watch the whole thing) While Diablo 3 is a multiplayer, consider its problems in the context if you imagine that it was singleplayer only: It doesn't really matter if it was singleplayer or multiplayer only; the issue of the boring efficiency would still exist.

Exploits in SP are usually pretty easily justifiable. The game is cheating, so I will cheat back.

@XaosII: Dude you have no idea how right you are. I go on youtube to find how to beat this dragon on da inquisition and the first thing I see is, all skill points glitch, gold exploit, max influence exploit. I'm just like... really?!! That would just ruin the game. That's how GTA Online was ruined. GTAO is actually really fun and has some nice and challenging missions here and there (not to mention heists are coming in a few days!!!). But people don't care about that at all.

Game ended up having hackers and expoiters everywhere and all people want to do is earn money. I just don't understand why they would grind the same missions again and again. They don't play a game to have fun it seems.

When heists were announced all I heard was people being concerned about the payout. Like srsly why is that the first thing that comes on your mind?!

that is the main reason dark souls is so popular