Top ten must have Sega Dreamcast games

Only by kiddos who want more slowdown since it makes the game easier.pills4louis

Being that the Saturn version of DoDonPachi has waay more slowdown, this statement makes little sense.

Sequel does not always mean better

for instance I prefer Marvel vs Street Fighter over Mvs2 , just because I like the controls, which feel more precise to me, also its a bit less frantic, but not sober enough to be called "SF with Marvel characters"

assuming a sequel is better than the original is not smart, you know thatDarkman2007

I assume jack sh#t, I've played all of these games, Darkstalker's Chronicle on DC kicks the living hell out of Vampire Saviour, Marvel Vs Capcom 2 completely destroys Marvel Vs Street Fighter, KOF 95/96/97 are no way better than KOF Dream Match, I definitely prefer Garou: Mark of the wolves, to Real Bout Special, Saturn has a slightly better port of SFAIII, Dreamcast has slightly worse SFAIII, and the excellent Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike to make up for it. Saturn has Samurai Shodown 4, Dreamcast has Last Blade 2.

Saturn has Astra Superstars, Groove on Fight, and Asuka 120% as exclusives over DC, but DC has the equally (if not better) Guilty Gear X, Capcom Vs SNK series, and the fantastic Jojo's Bizarre Adventure.

Essentially, take most of the best of the Saturn's 2D fighting library, improve and polish the gameplay mechanics, then improve the graphics, and you have the Dreamcast 2D fighting library.

Nights, Panzer and GH? thats it? come on, I think you're shortchanging the console just a bit.Darkman2007

So list more influential Saturn originals if you like

Personally I always thought Exhumed deserved more praise, but the game certainly wasn't particularly influential as I can't think of any later FPS games which were derivitive of it.

There was Shining Force III, and I guess a case could be made for Grandia, I was playing Breath of Fire 4 the other day and it certainly had a Grandia vibe to the graphics style so the game was influential to some degree.

There were some (disappointing) sequels to Mega Drive originals (such as Story of Thor 2) which did little to evolve their respective series'

Nothing particularly noteworthy to be honest, generally PS1 and N64 looked to the future, whilst Saturn was generally stuck in the past or reliant on Arcade/PC/PS1 ports.

Croc - it looks saturated but it kinda suits the game, I mean , its a colourful cartoony game, having blander colours wouldn't benefit it (unlike something like RE where the blander colours work well)

and both versions controlled pretty badly.Darkman2007

Pandemonium - moth eaten? what the heck is that? Im sorry , but Ive played both , they are basically the same apart from the Saturn having stronger colours.Darkman2007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMWrCgT6A04

[QUOTE="pills4louis"]Only by kiddos who want more slowdown since it makes the game easier.Domino_slayer

Being that the Saturn version of DoDonPachi has waay more slowdown, this statement makes little sense.

Actually, within the knowledge of those pretentious shmup gurus on the system11 forums (who go apesh** over the tiniest inconsistencies of framerates for ports vs. arcade versions) the PS1 version is only seen as the "superior version" (by some) due to the slowdown making it more arcade-like. The Saturn version actually has noticeably less slowdown than in the arcades, making it a tad more difficult at times but not unmanageably so.

Also, MVC1 > MVC2, IMO. Smaller roster? Yes. Infinitely less broken? Yes. And on a personal note, I guess I prefer 2-character over 3-character tagging.

MvsC2 is certainly not better than MvsSF , at least in my opinion, , the game just has a bit too much going on as far as Im concerned, MvsSF is a bit less frantic, but not slow enough to be called "SF with Marvel characters" (you have games like Children of the Atom for that)

I have Garou and honestly, Im not a big fan , it looks great, but I don't like it that much (well , maybe not quite , its ok , Im just not a big fan)

then again , Im not a huge fan of RBFFS so there you go , maybe its just that series in general (even if Garou and RBFFS are different in a number of ways)

I have to admit I didn't play Last Blade 2 , I did play the first game, and found it to be playing 2nd fiddle to Samurai Shodown.

technically you could argue Tomb Raider was an influential Saturn game since it did come out on the Saturn first (though both versions came out within literally a month of each other)

I also feel Deep Fear should be praised for its sound effects , while it wasn't really an original game (an RE clone) the sound effects that create the atmosphere imo are quite effective, and I feel are an advancement over the sometimes cheesy music of Resident Evil.

though there is something that confuses me here , why does a game have to be influential to be good? that makes no sense.

also when did I say the Saturn had more influential games on it? I never said that, in fact I said in a previous post the PS1 had more of them.

heck , Ill even admit that indeed the Saturn is more reliant of more traditional genres (though I think the lack of 3D platformers is more because the system was dead by 1998-99 , when these kinds of games started to be more popular outside the N64)

also , why does it matter why a game is first in the arcade? if its on the Saturn as well , and its a good game, who cares?

again , I played both Croc and Pandemonium on both systems.

again , Croc controls badly on both, yes the PS1 version controls a little better , but I found the game to be just as frustrating as far as the controls.

tbh Im not a fan of Croc, I feel its mediocre on both systems, as the controls are iffy (for this type of game) and the camera had various issues.

as for Pandemonium , the only difference I see is that the Saturn is a bit darker while having stronger colours.

now I don't really mind it, but maybe Im just odd :P

deep fear also had fantastic fmv's

also , why does it matter why a game is first in the arcade? if its on the Saturn as well , and its a good game, who cares?

Darkman2007

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]also , why does it matter why a game is first in the arcade? if its on the Saturn as well , and its a good game, who cares?

pills4louis

in some ways the PS1 owes some of its early sucess to arcade games. Im sure alot of people played Ridge Racer and Tekken (which I find boring, but whatever) and went ahead and bought a PS1 because of it. Im sure the fact Killer Instinct was going to be on N64 motivated some people to get an N64. there is no doubt Virtua Fighter 2 or Sega Rally helped sell Saturns.Darkman2007

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] in some ways the PS1 owes some of its early sucess to arcade games. Im sure alot of people played Ridge Racer and Tekken (which I find boring, but whatever) and went ahead and bought a PS1 because of it. Im sure the fact Killer Instinct was going to be on N64 motivated some people to get an N64. there is no doubt Virtua Fighter 2 or Sega Rally helped sell Saturns.pills4louis

Actually, within the knowledge of those pretentious shmup gurus on the system11 forums (who go apesh** over the tiniest inconsistencies of framerates for ports vs. arcade versions) the PS1 version is only seen as the "superior version" (by some) due to the slowdown making it more arcade-like.pills4louis

No, I just checked the shmups.system11 forum and they don't actually say this, they say the PS1 has much less slowdown, and much better graphics, they also say that the PS1 has a feature in the options called "Wait" which optionally emulates the arcade game's slowdown.

The biggest (and only) issue for me in regards to the PS1 version, is that on co-op both players have to choose the same ship, which personally I feel is a fairly big issue. Its a real shame the Saturn port of the game is fairly shoddy, as the hardware in general has proven many times to be able to handle a virtually perfect port of the game, but at least it still plays very well.

technically you could argue Tomb Raider was an influential Saturn game since it did come out on the Saturn first (though both versions came out within literally a month of each other)Darkman2007

In Europe there was a month gap, everywhere else they came out at the same time.

Tomb Raider is one that you could probably bring up, though the more I see about the game the more I think it was probably developed jointly with the PS1 version as a multiplatform game. Either way it came out on Saturn 1st though so yeah.

though there is something that confuses me here , why does a game have to be influential to be good? that makes no sense.

also when did I say the Saturn had more influential games on it? I never said that, in fact I said in a previous post the PS1 had more of them.Darkman2007

We were talking about "birthday" style retrospective articles, and all I'm saying is that from the perspective of someone trying to write such an article on Saturn, they would be thin on the ground on influential titles to talk about.

You can go on about how much you love the system until you're blue in the face, at the end of the day it had very little impact, or influence on the games industry, so I don't see reason for general gaming sites to make a big "hoo ha" about its birthday.

as for Pandemonium , the only difference I see is that the Saturn is a bit darker while having stronger colours.

now I don't really mind it, but maybe Im just odd :PDarkman2007

[QUOTE="pills4louis"]Actually, within the knowledge of those pretentious shmup gurus on the system11 forums (who go apesh** over the tiniest inconsistencies of framerates for ports vs. arcade versions) the PS1 version is only seen as the "superior version" (by some) due to the slowdown making it more arcade-like.Domino_slayer

No, I just checked the shmups.system11 forum and they don't actually say this, they say the PS1 has much less slowdown, and much better graphics, they also say that the PS1 has a feature in the options called "Wait" which optionally emulates the arcade game's slowdown.

The biggest (and only) issue for me in regards to the PS1 version, is that on co-op both players have to choose the same ship, which personally I feel is a fairly big issue. Its a real shame the Saturn port of the game is fairly shoddy, as the hardware in general has proven many times to be able to handle a virtually perfect port of the game, but at least it still plays very well.

technically you could argue Tomb Raider was an influential Saturn game since it did come out on the Saturn first (though both versions came out within literally a month of each other)Darkman2007

In Europe there was a month gap, everywhere else they came out at the same time.

Tomb Raider is one that you could probably bring up, though the more I see about the game the more I think it was probably developed jointly with the PS1 version as a multiplatform game. Either way it came out on Saturn 1st though so yeah.

though there is something that confuses me here , why does a game have to be influential to be good? that makes no sense.

also when did I say the Saturn had more influential games on it? I never said that, in fact I said in a previous post the PS1 had more of them.Darkman2007

We were talking about "birthday" style retrospective articles, and all I'm saying is that from the perspective of someone trying to write such an article on Saturn, they would be thin on the ground on influential titles to talk about.

You can go on about how much you love the system until you're blue in the face, at the end of the day it had very little impact, or influence on the games industry, so I don't see reason for general gaming sites to make a big "hoo ha" about its birthday.

as for Pandemonium , the only difference I see is that the Saturn is a bit darker while having stronger colours.

now I don't really mind it, but maybe Im just odd :PDarkman2007

when did I say the Saturn had alot of impact??? I didn't say that, a system doesnt need to have a big impact to be good (the Gamecube didnt exactly set the world on fire , while still being very good) but then , what kind of impact the did the DC have? it had the best visuals on release, (but then so did the 3DO) , and it had built in online, thats really it as far as I see it , unless you can point me to something else. in terms of software the only really influential games I can think of are the Shenmue games, Jet Set Radio (for popularizing cell shading) , Ferrari F355. of course there are plenty of great games on the DC, but I can't think of the system as being a huge industry changer (again, unless you could point me to something) also then another issue comes up , if youre writing about a certain console, are you going to talk about games that are good, or just games that were influential? if youre talking about games that changed the games industry , then yeah , the Saturn would have a short article , but if youre talking about games that were good, then there is more than enough to write.Darkman2007

Not that it counts, but I think the visuals were the first to really "wow" people. And, for better or for worse, the Dreamcast really brought system marketing to a new level. A lot was done in the way the system was presented. I don't know how to describe it exactly, but it was like the system was set up in it's own world. The color scheme, the design, the characters and such--well they were all molded together into a form of family. It is part of the reason the launch went so well. The magazine specifically designed for the system was awesome, and came with a demo disc.

Yes, some of that has been done, but Sega really took it to the next level.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] when did I say the Saturn had alot of impact??? I didn't say that, a system doesnt need to have a big impact to be good (the Gamecube didnt exactly set the world on fire , while still being very good) but then , what kind of impact the did the DC have? it had the best visuals on release, (but then so did the 3DO) , and it had built in online, thats really it as far as I see it , unless you can point me to something else. in terms of software the only really influential games I can think of are the Shenmue games, Jet Set Radio (for popularizing cell shading) , Ferrari F355. of course there are plenty of great games on the DC, but I can't think of the system as being a huge industry changer (again, unless you could point me to something) also then another issue comes up , if youre writing about a certain console, are you going to talk about games that are good, or just games that were influential? if youre talking about games that changed the games industry , then yeah , the Saturn would have a short article , but if youre talking about games that were good, then there is more than enough to write.Heirren

Not that it counts, but I think the visuals were the first to really "wow" people. And, for better or for worse, the Dreamcast really brought system marketing to a new level. A lot was done in the way the system was presented. I don't know how to describe it exactly, but it was like the system was set up in it's own world. The color scheme, the design, the characters and such--well they were all molded together into a form of family. It is part of the reason the launch went so well. The magazine specifically designed for the system was awesome, and came with a demo disc.

Yes, some of that has been done, but Sega really took it to the next level.

[QUOTE="Heirren"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] when did I say the Saturn had alot of impact??? I didn't say that, a system doesnt need to have a big impact to be good (the Gamecube didnt exactly set the world on fire , while still being very good) but then , what kind of impact the did the DC have? it had the best visuals on release, (but then so did the 3DO) , and it had built in online, thats really it as far as I see it , unless you can point me to something else. in terms of software the only really influential games I can think of are the Shenmue games, Jet Set Radio (for popularizing cell shading) , Ferrari F355. of course there are plenty of great games on the DC, but I can't think of the system as being a huge industry changer (again, unless you could point me to something) also then another issue comes up , if youre writing about a certain console, are you going to talk about games that are good, or just games that were influential? if youre talking about games that changed the games industry , then yeah , the Saturn would have a short article , but if youre talking about games that were good, then there is more than enough to write.Darkman2007

Not that it counts, but I think the visuals were the first to really "wow" people. And, for better or for worse, the Dreamcast really brought system marketing to a new level. A lot was done in the way the system was presented. I don't know how to describe it exactly, but it was like the system was set up in it's own world. The color scheme, the design, the characters and such--well they were all molded together into a form of family. It is part of the reason the launch went so well. The magazine specifically designed for the system was awesome, and came with a demo disc.

Yes, some of that has been done, but Sega really took it to the next level.

Your post confused me, sorry:). I'm unsure why you brought up 3D0. One, it WAS expensive, like you said, but when I say "wow" it is more of a luck-of-the-draw thing. The DC just happened to be the system that first launched when 3D graphics were really maturing.

MG2:SS? I'm assuming that you are referring to the older metal gear games. Metal Gear Solid gained a lot of credit for its outstanding presentation and cinematics. The story was good, but the plot was not a big reason. It was the way it was told which drew players into this plot that was new and inventive.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Heirren"]

Not that it counts, but I think the visuals were the first to really "wow" people. And, for better or for worse, the Dreamcast really brought system marketing to a new level. A lot was done in the way the system was presented. I don't know how to describe it exactly, but it was like the system was set up in it's own world. The color scheme, the design, the characters and such--well they were all molded together into a form of family. It is part of the reason the launch went so well. The magazine specifically designed for the system was awesome, and came with a demo disc.

Yes, some of that has been done, but Sega really took it to the next level.

Heirren

Your post confused me, sorry:). I'm unsure why you brought up 3D0. One, it WAS expensive, like you said, but when I say "wow" it is more of a luck-of-the-draw thing. The DC just happened to be the system that first launched when 3D graphics were really maturing.

MG2:SS? I'm assuming that you are referring to the older metal gear games. Metal Gear Solid gained a lot of credit for its outstanding presentation and cinematics. The story was good, but the plot was not a big reason. It was the way it was told which drew players into this plot that was new and inventive.

and I brought up the 3DO because the DC wasnt the first system with visuals that crush anything on the market.

in fact, one could go even earlier and put the T16 as a candidate for that, since when it came out, it was a big step up from the NES and SMS.

[QUOTE="Heirren"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] again , if youre going to list better visuals than current systems on the market, than the 3DO gets that innovation . the only difference is that the DC was affordable to most people at launch , the 3DO was not. from my point of view, if one is going to talk about the system , he should talk about games that are good, regardless of they changed the world and made it turn upside down or not. think of it this way, FF7 is considerd very influential , and in that light, FF8 follows it in many ways, does that mean one should not count FF8 because it wasn't as influential or innovative? that makes no sense if the game is good. MGS is basically an evolution of MG2:SS , they even share alot of plot points, yet MG2 doesnt get credit . do games which innovate or break new ground get extra points? absolutly , but its not as simple as that. I will give the Dreamcast credit, it was a very well designed system from a hardware standpoint, and it had great games, Darkman2007

Your post confused me, sorry:). I'm unsure why you brought up 3D0. One, it WAS expensive, like you said, but when I say "wow" it is more of a luck-of-the-draw thing. The DC just happened to be the system that first launched when 3D graphics were really maturing.

MG2:SS? I'm assuming that you are referring to the older metal gear games. Metal Gear Solid gained a lot of credit for its outstanding presentation and cinematics. The story was good, but the plot was not a big reason. It was the way it was told which drew players into this plot that was new and inventive.

I feel as though you did not read my post. The plot wasn't really what got MGS noticed/made it influential. And like I said, the Dreamcast--visually--was more of a time and place thing. It just happened to be the first system to launch with more matured 3D graphics.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Heirren"]

Your post confused me, sorry:). I'm unsure why you brought up 3D0. One, it WAS expensive, like you said, but when I say "wow" it is more of a luck-of-the-draw thing. The DC just happened to be the system that first launched when 3D graphics were really maturing.

MG2:SS? I'm assuming that you are referring to the older metal gear games. Metal Gear Solid gained a lot of credit for its outstanding presentation and cinematics. The story was good, but the plot was not a big reason. It was the way it was told which drew players into this plot that was new and inventive.

Heirren

I feel as though you did not read my post. The plot wasn't really what got MGS noticed/made it influential. And like I said, the Dreamcast--visually--was more of a time and place thing. It just happened to be the first system to launch with more matured 3D graphics.

[QUOTE="Heirren"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] Im not saying MGS wasn't influential , but have you played MG2:SS ? it has alot of the same plot points as MGS MG2 has Roy Campbell , Master Miller as characters MG2 has a mystery person calling you (like the Ninja in MGS) MG2 has a ninja character as one of the bosses MG2 has a female character which you meet in a toilet MG2 has a part of the game where you run up a tower. MG2 has a fist fight with the mysterious caller (a la MGS) now Im not criticising MGS , its one of my favourite games, but you see what I meant? but do you see my point about influential vs good? I mean , when you look at your game collection , is every one of them super innovative and industry changing? highly doubtful, most likely its only a small part of it. yet you still like those games alot, because they are good games.Darkman2007

I feel as though you did not read my post. The plot wasn't really what got MGS noticed/made it influential. And like I said, the Dreamcast--visually--was more of a time and place thing. It just happened to be the first system to launch with more matured 3D graphics.

I do, but in this case I still think what I said stands. If you take films, for example, just about every story has been told, but it is the way they are presented which gets them recognized. This is the case with Metal Gear Solid, and it seems quite obvious to me as well.

The Dreamcast did just about everything right that it could. If it wasn't for the hype coming off the psx, the system would have likely succeeded.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Heirren"]

I feel as though you did not read my post. The plot wasn't really what got MGS noticed/made it influential. And like I said, the Dreamcast--visually--was more of a time and place thing. It just happened to be the first system to launch with more matured 3D graphics.

Heirren

I do, but in this case I still think what I said stands. If you take films, for example, just about every story has been told, but it is the way they are presented which gets them recognized. This is the case with Metal Gear Solid, and it seems quite obvious to me as well.

The Dreamcast did just about everything right that it could. If it wasn't for the hype coming off the psx, the system would have likely succeeded.

Not that it counts, but I think the visuals were the first to really "wow" people.

Heirren

[QUOTE="Heirren"]Not that it counts, but I think the visuals were the first to really "wow" people.

pills4louis

Allow me to rephrase, as I agree with you. The DC was the "next step" in wowing, of sorts. It really showed that next level of fidelity earlier than anything else, just like the games you mentioned.

[QUOTE="pills4louis"]

[QUOTE="Heirren"]Not that it counts, but I think the visuals were the first to really "wow" people.

Heirren

Allow me to rephrase, as I agree with you. The DC was the "next step" in wowing, of sorts. It really showed that next level of fidelity earlier than anything else, just like the games you mentioned.

[QUOTE="pills4louis"]

[QUOTE="Heirren"]Not that it counts, but I think the visuals were the first to really "wow" people.

Heirren

Allow me to rephrase, as I agree with you. The DC was the "next step" in wowing, of sorts. It really showed that next level of fidelity earlier than anything else, just like the games you mentioned.

Allow me to rephrase, as I agree with you. The DC was the "next step" in wowing, of sorts. It really showed that next level of fidelity earlier than anything else, just like the games you mentioned.

Heirren

Well, it was the first 6th generation console, i bet every freakin' gamer on the planet was wowed by it's visuals.

[QUOTE="Heirren"]

Allow me to rephrase, as I agree with you. The DC was the "next step" in wowing, of sorts. It really showed that next level of fidelity earlier than anything else, just like the games you mentioned.

Lucianu

Well, it was the first 6th generation console, i bet every freakin' gamer on the planet was wowed by it's visuals.

I'm unsure what you mean by that, but if you read prior posts I stated that it surely was a time/place thing.

[QUOTE="Lucianu"]

[QUOTE="Heirren"]

Allow me to rephrase, as I agree with you. The DC was the "next step" in wowing, of sorts. It really showed that next level of fidelity earlier than anything else, just like the games you mentioned.

Heirren

Well, it was the first 6th generation console, i bet every freakin' gamer on the planet was wowed by it's visuals.

I'm unsure what you mean by that, but if you read prior posts I stated that it surely was a time/place thing.

like I said, one could consider it special because when it came out, it was better than what was in the arcades (in fact the DC based Naomi board became the de facto new high end for arcades) , and could pretty much do visuals on par with or better than the Voodoo 2 card.

prior to that, all consoles were either worse compared to the arcades, or worse than what was on the home computers of the time, and usually both. that was indeed impressive

I'm unsure what you mean by that, but if you read prior posts I stated that it surely was a time/place thing.

Heirren

It was the first 6th generation system, a gigantic leap from the N64/PS1/Saturn graphical capabilities. It's no wonder people 'wow'ed' at it, because the visual leap was incredible.

I'm thinking about Soul Calibur which was released in 1999, i bet people's jaw just dropped. Still is a beautiful game to this day.

[QUOTE="Heirren"]

I'm unsure what you mean by that, but if you read prior posts I stated that it surely was a time/place thing.

Lucianu

It was the first 6th generation system, a gigantic leap from the N64/PS1/Saturn graphical capabilities. It's no wonder people 'wow'ed' at it, because the visual leap was incredible.

I'm thinking about Soul Calibur which was released in 1999, i bet people's jaw just dropped. Still is a beautiful game to this day.

When did I say the Saturn had alot of impact??? I didn't say that, a system doesnt need to have a big impact to be goodDarkman2007

You've been bemoaning the fact that the Saturn "doesn't get enough credit" and that it doesn't receive birthday articles, sorry, but Saturn didn't do enough to earn any of those things because it had little impact on the industry, its not important enough.

Saturn was a nice system, with a lot of playable games, but being that its not particularly popular with mainstream gamers, contemporary writers need a little more incentive to bring it up than "it was entertaining, and had a lot of good ports"

If it was still popular with mainstream gamers then writers would need little reason to justify writing an article about fun games in the system's library, but it doesn't really succeed in either fashion, its not popular, and its not historically important either.

what kind of impact the did the DC have? it had the best visuals on release, and it had built in online, thats really it as far as I see itDarkman2007

Those two are already pretty notable alone.

Dreamcast heralded the start of the "6th gen", which was, to me the first time 3D graphics actually started to look really good with no huge graphical issues (clean texture, no warping, few jaggies etc).

Dreamcast was the main instigator of the move towards online console gaming, it was the 1st system which really pushed towards it, staked its success on it even. Earlier consoles (Famicom, SNES, Saturn) just had half assed online components, whilst Dreamcast was bundled with a modem, its online gaming feature was heavily advertised, games (such as Phantasy Star Online) were specifically developed to push the feature, and had a lot of work put into them to simplify and increase ease of interaction with people (Phantasy Star had the button assigned, draw-your-own emoticons for instance)

Dreamcast also pushed the whole "connectivity" idea, by giving you a screen built into the controller to give you access to extra info not available to other players. Aside from some sports games and a few things here and there the idea didn't go anywhere with Dreamcast, but Nintendo were clearly taken with it as you can see with Gamecube's GBA connectivity, as well as the upcoming Wii U

Dreamcast also solved the problem of game developers treating Europe as a 3rd world country with their crappy, slow, un-optimised games by adding a hardware PAL60 feature which allowed all developers to easily get their games running at the proper speed. This feature was also taken by Nintendo and added to their Gamecube console.

unless you can point me to something else. in terms of software the only really influential games I can think of are the Shenmue games, Jet Set Radio (for popularizing cell shading), Ferrari F355.Darkman2007

F355 Challenge is an arcade game.

On top of Shenmue, and Jet Set Radio I would add at least -

Phantasy Star Online - this was amazing to play at the time, and was the first console game to really push online interaction.

Sonic Adventure 2 - The spherical worlds from "Mad Space" were re-used heavily by Nintendo in Mario Galaxy.

Rez - I'd say the style has been at least marginally influential on other games, it was shown at the Smithsonian American Art Museum's 2012 exhibition "The Art of Video Games", and it still gets a lot of accolade's even now.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]When did I say the Saturn had alot of impact??? I didn't say that, a system doesnt need to have a big impact to be goodDomino_slayer

You've been bemoaning the fact that the Saturn "doesn't get enough credit" and that it doesn't receive birthday articles, sorry, but Saturn didn't do enough to earn any of those things because it had little impact on the industry, its not important enough.

Saturn was a nice system, with a lot of playable games, but being that its not particularly popular with mainstream gamers, contemporary writers need a little more incentive to bring it up than "it was entertaining, and had a lot of good ports"

If it was still popular with mainstream gamers then writers would need little reason to justify writing an article about fun games in the system's library, but it doesn't really succeed in either fashion, its not popular, and its not historically important either.

what kind of impact the did the DC have? it had the best visuals on release, and it had built in online, thats really it as far as I see itDarkman2007

Those two are already pretty notable alone.

Dreamcast heralded the start of the "6th gen", which was, to me the first time 3D graphics actually started to look really good with no huge graphical issues (clean texture, no warping, few jaggies etc).

Dreamcast was the main instigator of the move towards online console gaming, it was the 1st system which really pushed towards it, staked its success on it even. Earlier consoles (Famicom, SNES, Saturn) just had half assed online components, whilst Dreamcast was bundled with a modem, its online gaming feature was heavily advertised, games (such as Phantasy Star Online) were specifically developed to push the feature, and had a lot of work put into them to simplify and increase ease of interaction with people (Phantasy Star had the button assigned, draw-your-own emoticons for instance)

Dreamcast also pushed the whole "connectivity" idea, by giving you a screen built into the controller to give you access to extra info not available to other players. Aside from some sports games and a few things here and there the idea didn't go anywhere with Dreamcast, but Nintendo were clearly taken with it as you can see with Gamecube's GBA connectivity, as well as the upcoming Wii U

Dreamcast also solved the problem of game developers treating Europe as a 3rd world country with their crappy, slow, un-optimised games by adding a hardware PAL60 feature which allowed all developers to easily get their games running at the proper speed. This feature was also taken by Nintendo and added to their Gamecube console.

unless you can point me to something else. in terms of software the only really influential games I can think of are the Shenmue games, Jet Set Radio (for popularizing cell shading), Ferrari F355.Darkman2007

F355 Challenge is an arcade game.

On top of Shenmue, and Jet Set Radio I would add at least -

Phantasy Star Online - this was amazing to play at the time, and was the first console game to really push online interaction.

Sonic Adventure 2 - The spherical worlds from "Mad Space" were re-used heavily by Nintendo in Mario Galaxy.

Rez - I'd say the style has been at least marginally influential on other games, it was shown at the Smithsonian American Art Museum's 2012 exhibition "The Art of Video Games", and it still gets a lot of accolade's even now.

but again , we are going back to the idea of influential vs good. if one is only looking to write about the influential games on the Saturn , the article would be of a modest length at best, if it was about good games , it would be different.

again , one could argue the reason why the Saturn is not popular with mainstream gamers is a lack of knowledge of the Saturn's library (ask most people what are good games on the Saturn , and the list usually consists of just Virtua Fighter 2 and Sega Rally, and I think you can agree, the list is alot longer than that)

again , does a game get credit for being influential? absolutly , but then I never asked for the Saturn to be put on a pedestal and declared as the best thing since sliced bread.

recognition does not mean declaring it the best.

again , does a game get credit for being influential? absolutly , but then I never asked for the Saturn to be put on a pedestal and declared as the best thing since sliced bread.

recognition does not mean declaring it the best.

Darkman2007

I don't know where this "influential vs good" thing came up. Nobody is doubting the saturns library, but it just didn't have the same impact of the dreamcast. In fact, if the saturn didn't create so much negativity around sega, it is likely the dreamcast would have succeeded on a much higher level. Yes, the segacd and 32x were also factors in sega dimishing its brand, but at the same time this is also a testament to how well the DC was treated as a branded product.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

again , does a game get credit for being influential? absolutly , but then I never asked for the Saturn to be put on a pedestal and declared as the best thing since sliced bread.

recognition does not mean declaring it the best.

Heirren

I don't know where this "influential vs good" thing came up. Nobody is doubting the saturns library, but it just didn't have the same impact of the dreamcast. In fact, if the saturn didn't create so much negativity around sega, it is likely the dreamcast would have succeeded on a much higher level. Yes, the segacd and 32x were also factors in sega dimishing its brand, but at the same time this is also a testament to how well the DC was treated as a branded product.

[QUOTE="Heirren"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

again , does a game get credit for being influential? absolutly , but then I never asked for the Saturn to be put on a pedestal and declared as the best thing since sliced bread.

recognition does not mean declaring it the best.

Darkman2007

I don't know where this "influential vs good" thing came up. Nobody is doubting the saturns library, but it just didn't have the same impact of the dreamcast. In fact, if the saturn didn't create so much negativity around sega, it is likely the dreamcast would have succeeded on a much higher level. Yes, the segacd and 32x were also factors in sega dimishing its brand, but at the same time this is also a testament to how well the DC was treated as a branded product.

Today, I couldn't. However, today as well, I couldn't name as many psx games either. Games are no longer a priority or prime focus for me anymore, but back in the years of the psx/n64/saturn they were one of my main hobbies. I did play a lot of Saturn games though, but I thinke the original point is somewhat proved by what you just said--that gamers like myself, ones that were BIG into gaming during that period--cannot name that many saturn games. Right there tells me the system had little impact on the industry. I was one of the kids that subscribed to EGM/DC Magazine/etc/ and read about ALL the systems.

I feel like the conversation has flown off topic. I don't even remember what the original point was!:)

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Heirren"]

I don't know where this "influential vs good" thing came up. Nobody is doubting the saturns library, but it just didn't have the same impact of the dreamcast. In fact, if the saturn didn't create so much negativity around sega, it is likely the dreamcast would have succeeded on a much higher level. Yes, the segacd and 32x were also factors in sega dimishing its brand, but at the same time this is also a testament to how well the DC was treated as a branded product.

Heirren

Today, I couldn't. However, today as well, I couldn't name as many psx games either. Games are no longer a priority or prime focus for me anymore, but back in the years of the psx/n64/saturn they were one of my main hobbies. I did play a lot of Saturn games though, but I thinke the original point is somewhat proved by what you just said--that gamers like myself, ones that were BIG into gaming during that period--cannot name that many saturn games. Right there tells me the system had little impact on the industry. I was one of the kids that subscribed to EGM/DC Magazine/etc/ and read about ALL the systems.

I feel like the conversation has flown off topic. I don't even remember what the original point was!:)

oh well , we will agree to disagree :P I have noticed though even on this site, that alot of times, the PS1 version of a game would get reviewed while the Saturn version would not (Pocket Fighter , Street Fighter Alpha 3 , Duke3D , Croc and quite a few others). why is this I don't know.Darkman2007

Dreamcast was more influential/important system.

The review thing I do not understand either. I own a psp and was surprised at the lack of reviews. Perhaps the psp is comparable to the Saturn in this regard in how it is treated by the overall media.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] oh well , we will agree to disagree :P I have noticed though even on this site, that alot of times, the PS1 version of a game would get reviewed while the Saturn version would not (Pocket Fighter , Street Fighter Alpha 3 , Duke3D , Croc and quite a few others). why is this I don't know.Heirren

Dreamcast was more influential/important system.

The review thing I do not understand either. I own a psp and was surprised at the lack of reviews. Perhaps the psp is comparable to the Saturn in this regard in how it is treated by the overall media.

and I brought up the 3DO because the DC wasnt the first system with visuals that crush anything on the market.

in fact, one could go even earlier and put the T16 as a candidate for that, since when it came out, it was a big step up from the NES and SMS.

Darkman2007

horrible comparison as the 3do was 700$, besides it wasn't that wowy, the neo geo was far more impressive in 1990 but was also 700$ and nobody could buy it, while the dreamcast was 199 and brought games that looked better than in the arcdes for the first time.