The green monster who's sinking the industry, and the Heroes who stand up to it.
This topic is locked from further discussion.
It seems nowadays everything is becoming so commercial, and so mainstream. Halloween for example A month and a half before Halloween, stores are chalk full of halloween decorations, and costumes, and bags of halloween candy. Same goes for almost every other holiday. And don't even get me STARTED on Christmas.
Now, I know there isn't much relation between that and gaming, but It seems the common denominator is the money involved. Where as at one time, video games were something for nerds, and a smaller portion of society, a sub culture. But over the past .. 5-10 years, it seems gaming has become much more mainstream. And now with the wii, and more "casual" games becoming more popular, it seems the green monster is taking this once "cultic" type of society, and turning it in on its self, turning it into some gargantuan sales pitch.
Look at all that merch for Halo 3. What better way to symbolise the commercialism infesting the gaming industry than that. Take one of the years most popular titles, and capitolize on it's guaranteed success.
Now about developers. Capcom's MH3 going to the wii for obvious reasons (the wii has more sales), Bungie going away from MS to make more money (inevitably), BioWare going to EA, all these companies going multi plat. It seems some day, there will be no more third party exclusives. Now let me ask you: Where have all the heroes gone?
People willing to spit in the faces of the industry, and take risks, for the integrity of the game, and its developers. What happened to it being "all about the games"? Sure that might not pay the bills as well, but neither does walking that old lady across the street, or helping a child find its mother, or taking in a stray animal. Making games is no longer about the gamers, but the money involved.
People argue about musicians doing the same thing. "Selling out". Well these developers are doing virtually the same thing. Slyly turning their backs on the very consumers that made them popular in the first place, and going "other directions".
And you may argue that "games are getting more expencive to develop". While that is VERY true, I fail to see how that would effect a company's decision to make a title exclusive. Doesn't it cost more money to go multi plat?
It basically seems to boil down to two things, Loyal to the fans, or Loyal to the dollar. There are still pillars of strength in this observation. "Heroes" of the industry, like my hero, Hideo Kojima. Please feel free to add your "Heores of the industry". People that stand up to the odds, look a risk right in the face, and say "this one's for the fans."
We salute you, our Heroes of the gaming industry.
Eventually though, the gamers will suffer for it. No more 3rd party exclusives to talk about, and the quality of games will inevitably go down the tube, due to sequals being mainstream, and new IP being such a "monetary risk" that it just won't be financially sound to make a new, un-tried IP. This is both Nintendo's strength, and weakness. Because for every one good "new IP" game, there are 5 or 6 crap titles. Maybe its Sony/MS's strictness in what titles make it on to our consoles, maybe its the big companies wanting to make more money, and losing sight of their fanbases.
While this isn't the end of the world, it makes for good convorsation. Do we need another atari fiasco to realise that, when overly-commercialised, gaming loses that majestic feel to it. When you need to work two jobs to support a gaming habit for games that are the same as the ones you played last gen, it just isn't as fun any more.
Well I think gaming having gone mainstream has had excellent benefits to it and made the medium a much more stable industry then it was in the past. I've been gaming ever since the Atari 2600 days and honestly it's much better now then it ever has been. That's not to say that I don't enjoy the classic games of the past, mostly from the 16-bit era and on. It's a part of the entertainment industry, making money has to be it's primary focus. Of course they have to stay within the limits of what is an acceptable mass market price range. Aside from MS and Sony raising the bar on how much consumers are willing to pay for a console, which hasn't really worked at all for the most part especially for Sony with the PS3, game prices are actually pretty good. They may have risen a little from last gen but they are not as expensive as they were prior to that plus they tend to drop in price faster and further then they have in the past.
There have always been alot of sequels in the past it's just that nowadays there are many more games then before but I'm willing to bet that percentage wise it's probably pretty close. Same deal with games that aren't of good quality but that really depends on one's concept of what good quality really means as some people think that anything lower then an 8 isn't a good game.
Sure it's not entirely all roses but overall I think the industry is much better off and I'm enjoying it more then I ever have.
The reason you don't see that anymore is because it costs $10 million to make a game now.
So all those people that would do that either
A. Went Bankrupted (Trokia)
B. Making Pick up and Play Games on PSN, XBLA, and PC sites.
C. Making games for the Wii or Handhelds (Renegade Kid/Vanillaware)
As for "selling out" as long as they don't sell out so much that they dumb down the gameplay (ala Rainbow Six, Deus Ex 2, King of Fighter XII, and from the looks of it Fallout 3) I don't care as long as it's still a good game.
EDIT - Then again I would get mad if they changed the "theme" of my games.
Like how Prince of Persia became some mindless gorefest or how a certain JRPG (that I am not going to name) became "Westernized".
Well, you have a point. Bioshock wouldnt have been if Take Two hadnt accepted them. Remember how all of the other publishers had turned them down, just because System Shock 2 didnt sell well? I doubt theres any way to stop this sort of thing. The publishers just looked at sales, and not the genius that System Shock two was, or Irrational Games, and Ken Levine's potential.Myrkan
Exactly. and I fear the day nears that the Take Two's of the world will cease to be so open minded. The risk will far outweigh the reward when every other company isn't competing for "new IP". When the development cost raises, it deters smart investors.
Another thing I think we'll be seeing a LOT more of is small, more "mainstream", relatively unexpencive titles, like LBP, flOw, Viva Pinata, and the like. Sony is, so far, leading the way in this market, but some time, I have a feeling it will be THE place where companies put their exclusives. I think eventually the multi-million dollar exclusive games are going to be things of the past. And all we will have to "justify our purchase" will be small, mini games, and, of course, first party exclusives. But then again, of course, there could some day be a buying war, and the console companies could eventually buy out the third party devs. So either third party exclusives will be gone, or third party devs will. Or I'm just wrong. heh.
The reason you don't see that anymore is because it costs $10 million to make a game now.
So all those people that would do that either
A. Went Bankrupted (Trokia)
B. Making Pick up and Play Games on PSN, XBLA, and PC sites.
C. Making games for the Wii or Handhelds (Renegade Kid/Vanillaware)
As for "selling out" as long as they don't sell out so much that they dumb down the gameplay (ala Rainbow Six, Deus Ex 2, King of Fighter XII, and from the looks of it Fallout 3) I don't care as long as it's still a good game.
Gunraidan
Your sig is ENTIRELY relative to this post. However, I don't think Sony is soely to blame, its the principal of it all. Natural evolution of an industry is it starts out small, and the consumers love it. The more the consumer loves it, the more popular it gets over time. The more popular it becomes, the more advanced the technology behind the industry gets, the higher the standards become, and the higher the standards, the more money that is needed, the more money needed, the more expencive the product becomes, the more expencive the product becomes, the more money the industry makes, the more money the industry makes, the happier the industry. But the consumer that made the industry popular in the first place suffers in the end. no happy ending here folks. Unless there is a revolution.
Kojima and Namoura. I divorced Mikami after he made RE4.
Kojima is trying everything he can to make mgs4 a ground-shaking game I mean everytime we see a new trailer it looks totally different than the one we saw before. This man puts his heart into his games. As for Namoura, it's true that they're making nothing but spin-pffs but that's fan-service for you. they're making games which still appeal to the audience and I don't blame him for ff12. Ohh I forgot to mention Fumito Ueda, I like his games and I hope he stays on the same pace and never change.
While I see where some of your points are coming from, gaming shouldn't be tied down to a 'sub-culture' as you call it. You make gaming sound almost elitist, whereby there are people who are in, and people who aren't (ie. get N or get out). As gaming is becoming more popular and relevant today, companies will naturally start appealing to the newer and burgeoning demographic of 'casual gamer'.
Unfortunately, it has almost always been about the money. But in today's time, companies and publishers have an easier time advertising their product now, whereas before, gaming was seen as more for the younger crowd.
And games are expensive to develop, especially nowadays, where artists are in large demand -- graphics and artwork don't appear out of thin air. This, to the point that middleware and companies exist that simply create foliage and trees for use in videogames (devs would rather devote the time elsewhere). Also multiplatform just makes sense.
Picture it in their shoes. A developer puts a huge team together, and creates a functioning game out of their work. The game is already made, the cost of 'porting' it over to another console is relatively smaller by comparison as it's not like they have to re-make the game again. It allows them to enter a different audience and cater to potentially thousands more people. Now does that not make fiscal sense?
Because of this kind of expense, developers are, many times, at the mercy of the publishers and financiers -- manytimes, the devs themselves are creative, passionate people, but ultimately control rests with those that can fund and distribute the game, because without them, everyone loses.
It's all down to us in the end. Big business is a natural evolution for gaming as part of the entertainment industry. However, we have a say. By all means, buy big, quality blocbusters, but keep an open mind and give more off-the-wall games a chance. After all, Bioshock was a success, and so was Shadow of the Colossus, thus opening the way for sequels.
Are game developers beginning to sell out?
Bungie going away from MS to make more money (inevitably)0rin
Game developers have been bought and sold by for years. It's the nature of the business. For example, a few years ago everyone cried Bungie sold out to MS. Now, that they're leaving MS you're saying they're selling out again?
This holiday season is shaping up to be one of the best holiday seasons gaming has had in years. I don't see we're suffering, even if developers and/or publishers are focussing on the generating more money, when we have plenty of new IP and sequels coming out that either are or look to be amazing.
I find the whole mainstream gaming being bad statement to be a bunch of elitist BS. Many mainstream titles appeal to both causal and "hardcore" gamers. And, if you're wanting a break from them, there are plenty of niche titles and mods out there to meet about anyones gaming needs.
And, if you're wanting a break from them, there are plenty of niche titles and mods out there to meet about anyones gaming needs.
Skie7
Not even somewhat kinda close as their used to be, actually most of the genres I used to love are actually dead. And most of the niche games that are left in those genres either suck (shoot-em-ups, beat-em-ups), filled with countless sequel after sequel with almost zero new IP's (fighting games), too similar (JRPG's), or just plain dead (almost anything 2D). That wasn't how it was at all 12 years ago. And from what I've talked to most PC gamers agree the same along the lines of true WRPG's, Adventure Games, and Tactical Shooters.
Your sig is relative to my post0rin
My sig. was to remind people of the past.
If you remember their are alot of people freaking out that Nintendo is bringing more of a "casual" audience into the market. People are freaking out (well not as much as a few months ago) thinking that it will effect core gaming. However, the average poster in these forums by "age polls" is around 22 years old. The Playstation came out 12 years ago in 1995 making the posters around the age of 10 and probably early teens when they brought the console.
To those complaining about the Wii that it might do something to the industry. Remember it was you that brought the Playstation. It was you that gave into this whole gaming way focus on "appeal" or at least the console. It was you who scared the hell out of the Nintendo, SEGA, and Arcade fans. So you have no right to complain about the Wii at all since you were the one that brought the last casual expanding system. Ironically when the PSX came out that's when core gaming was stronger then ever before. In Japan gaming sales were at a record high with all core and stream games taking the top of the charts and in the West PC gaming was NEVER bigger. So overall the Playstation did NOTHING to harm core gaming at all just like the Wii won't.
When was gaming ever "sacred" and "not about capitalism". I've been gaming for over 25 years I don't remember any good games ever being created and given away for free.
The closest was the id demos of Doom and Wolfenstein 3D, but that was only the first level and an enticement to buy the full game.
When was gaming ever "sacred" and "not about capitalism". I've been gaming for over 25 years I don't remember any good games ever being created and given away for free.
The closest was the id demos of Doom and Wolfenstein 3D, but that was only the first level and an enticement to buy the full game.
aspro73
Yeah, I'm been gaming for 29 years and never remember a time when the motives of videogame makers were pure and to tell the truth, I don't care about motives and I don't care if someone is working for themselves or EA or publishing a game on 99 systems or just 1. All I care about is the quality of the final product(s) and right now there are more quality games being released than I have time to play.
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment