Let's be VERY honest here...Final Fantasy stories really are ridiculous

This isn't a "let's bash Final Fantasy thread," but more of a analytical discussion that sees Final Fantasy stories more critically, kind of like discussing about essays and novels in a college Lit-class...ugh, hated that class!

Anyway, I bring this up because of the latest EGM's article in the back by editor Jeremy Parish called, "WTFiction!?" which is a series of articles that decipher silly stories in games. No. 5 was Xenosaga, No. 4 was Mega Man, and No. 3 was Final Fantasy VII. He makes some very interesting points that makes sense out of, er...stories that makes no sense. No. 2 will be Resident Evil.

Under Final Fantasy VII, he writes, "FFVII may be one of the world's most beloved games, but that doesn't mean it makes a lick of sense...especially after its shoddy spin-offs and its beautifully shallow film, Advent Children. And that's why the world of FFVII is our No. 3 as the wackiest video game stories ever."

Personally, I consider FFVII as a revolutionary game at its time, but it reallyis a wacky story. And come to think of it, all the FF games (and most JRPGs) have wacky and silly stories.

Just thought I bring this up for discussion because I read in a lot of threads of comments like "FF has the best stories," etc. But after reading Jeremy Parish's article, and thinking more about it...FF stories really aren't that great, to be bloody honest.

But what does everyone else think?

They're about as deep as an Anime plot. selbie

That is a bit too general. There are deep anime plots out there. They just aren't in Bleach, Naruto, and most of the other super popular series.

[QUOTE="selbie"]They're about as deep as an Anime plot. _Tobli_

That is a bit too general. There are deep anime plots out there. They just aren't in Bleach, Naruto, and most of the other super popular series.

It would be nice if he elaborated on the things that didn't actually make sense...right now I can't see what he is talking about.

Final Fantasy stories may be silly but what they manage to do so well is engage the players emotions. I don't really think that youy can call a story silly if it manages to make people cry eg *SPOILERS* Aeris' death

This isn't a "let's bash Final Fantasy thread," but more of a analytical discussion that sees Final Fantasy stories more critically, kind of like discussing about essays and novels in a college Lit-class...ugh, hated that class!

Anyway, I bring this up because of the latest EGM's article in the back by editor Jeremy Parish called, "WTFiction!?" which is a series of articles that decipher silly stories in games. No. 5 was Xenosaga, No. 4 was Mega Man, and No. 3 was Final Fantasy VII. He makes some very interesting points that makes sense out of, er...stories that makes no sense. No. 2 will be Resident Evil.

Under Final Fantasy VII, he writes, "FFVII may be one of the world's most beloved games, but that doesn't mean it makes a lick of sense...especially after its shoddy spin-offs and its beautifully shallow film, Advent Children. And that's why the world of FFVII is our No. 3 as the wackiest video game stories ever."

Personally, I consider FFVII as a revolutionary game at its time, but it reallyis a wacky story. And come to think of it, all the FF games (and most JRPGs) have wacky and silly stories.

Just thought I bring this up for discussion because I read in a lot of threads of comments like "FF has the best stories," etc. But after reading Jeremy Parish's article, and thinking more about it...FF stories really aren't that great, to be bloody honest.

But what does everyone else think?

ASK_Story

It's always the "whacky" and epic anime stories you often see in every JRPG that are revered and remembered. An idiot would say that Final Fantasy VII had a bad storyline and/or the game sucked, when in fact it has one of the best storylines in a game to date.

I love the FF games but the story has never been the high points to me. I like the play mechanics and characters but the story i usually give up on.

It always seems very childish (boy saves world) and convoluted to me.

I've been saying this for years and generally think that FF2, 3, 7, and 8 all had the same plot mechanics and general story arc... just with new setting and characters.

idealitc youth starts off in this super powerful group, realizes they are evil, joins rebel faction, build up cast of stereo typical characters, find out what you thought was the main evil guy really isn't, some party members die, team gives up hope for a little bit then they rise together and kick a multitiered baddy's ass.

I've been saying this for years and generally think that FF2, 3, 7, and 8 all had the same plot mechanics and general story arc... just with new setting and characters.

idealitc youth starts off in this super powerful group, realizes they are evil, joins rebel faction, build up cast of stereo typical characters, find out what you thought was the main evil guy really isn't, some party members die, team gives up hope for a little bit then they rise together and kick a multitiered baddy's ass.

smerlus

Well no body dies in ff8. Nobody joins a rebelious group, nobody gets powerful alone, nobody saves the world alone from a baddie who wants to destroy the world and the story isn't about stopping an enemy who seeks world destruction or revenge. The reason ff8 main baddie was doing what she was doing was kept a mystery.

True the stories are slightly far fetched but you can't deny they are good and you don't get lost in them.

[QUOTE="smerlus"]

I've been saying this for years and generally think that FF2, 3, 7, and 8 all had the same plot mechanics and general story arc... just with new setting and characters.

idealitc youth starts off in this super powerful group, realizes they are evil, joins rebel faction, build up cast of stereo typical characters, find out what you thought was the main evil guy really isn't, some party members die, team gives up hope for a little bit then they rise together and kick a multitiered baddy's ass.

gamingqueen

Well no body dies in ff8. Nobody joins a rebelious group, nobody gets powerful alone, nobody saves the world alone from a baddie who wants to destroy the world and the story isn't about stopping an enemy who seeks world destruction or revenge. The reason ff8 main baddie was doing what she was doing was kept a mystery.

yeah... 8 switched it up a bit... you belong to this super group, this guy that duals with you joins thisrebel group. never said anything about anyone being alone or doing anything alone...and whileRinoa doesn't die, she's incapacitated for a while just like characters inFF2 and 3 (onlyAeris, General Leoand possibly Shadow are the only playercharacters to actually "die"). Ultimecia planned on having all of time compressed into one or some crap that sounds like it would make life miserable because evil people usually don't do things for good reasons.

so again... the same plot hooks, different characters and setting.

The stories aren't ridiculous, they're just ***anese. And that's what makes them so special!sirelfblood

So nationality totally changes the quality of a story? Ocarina of Time had a good story, that's Japanese. And why'd you put AN in red?

It must be a difference in cultures, but I can't make sense of stories from any Japanese developed games. Final Fantasy makes no sense, but either does Metal Gear Solid or just about anything else made in Japan. Sometimes this has no effect - I loved ICO and Shadow of Colossus. Sometimes it makes the game unbearable, like MGS or just about any JRPG, for me.

I dont really understand how stories such as in FFVII or FFX dont make sense? To me the stories of those games are unbelievably deep and rich and definately among the best game stories ever. Maybe they seem "wacky" to some people because they are a megazillion times more complex, bigger and deeper than those in movies.

But yes I would say that they are definately the "jrpg" type of stories. Its not just FF its all the wapanese rpg's like suikoden, star ocean what ever. Who ever says those stories sucks deserves a kick in the face.

I relly enjoyed the story in FFVII and the characters but fell out of love with the series after FF8 and havent cared for it since.GodModeEnabled

What I really didn't like from 8 was that the main antagonist had very little presence throughout the game. I would really like to play the PS2 ones, mainly X, X-2 and XII.

When you think about it...it is.

Think about it you have a futuristic city that is built on industry with giant dumps as towns. When outside of it there's nothing but desert. Further out you have medievilish houses even then when you go a little further you have a modern setting city with tech. You have 3 different time periods going on at once. Not only that but you have talking wolves, giant cats, meca-men, etc. It's just really messed up.

[QUOTE="_Tobli_"]

[QUOTE="selbie"]They're about as deep as an Anime plot. selbie

That is a bit too general. There are deep anime plots out there. They just aren't in Bleach, Naruto, and most of the other super popular series.

Mainstream anything always has shallow stories and plots. I can only think of very few exceptions.

[QUOTE="sirelfblood"]The stories aren't ridiculous, they're just ***anese. And that's what makes them so special!Video_Game_King

So nationality totally changes the quality of a story? Ocarina of Time had a good story, that's Japanese. And why'd you put AN in red?

It would be nice if he elaborated on the things that didn't actually make sense...right now I can't see what he is talking about.

Articuno76

I was going to write the whole article but then I would be in danger of giving away the entire story and spoil it for everyone who hasn't played it yet.

I suggest to just read it. It's the latest EGM.

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"]

[QUOTE="sirelfblood"]The stories aren't ridiculous, they're just ***anese. And that's what makes them so special!OneWingedAngeI

So nationality totally changes the quality of a story? Ocarina of Time had a good story, that's Japanese. And why'd you put AN in red?

Ocarina of Time was an epic, which is why it was such a good story. Felt like King Arthur, Beowulf or the Odyssey.

OOT barely had a story at all.
i really dont get the point of this topic though. most games have outlandish mechanics, stories, and characters. as long as they are engaging in some way, who cares? you know that whole lord of the rings thing is slightly ridiculous... seemed to work well.OneWingedAngeI

I know what you mean, their are plenty of stories similar to Final Fantasy and The Lord of the Rings that don't make sense, I guess they call it the "Fantasy" genre for a reason.

Guess this is why I'll never like FF games. I don't like their stories. As someone has said, one metrosexual dude rises from some faction, turns traitor, joins a group and barely defeats super bad guy, who had no good reason to destroy the world in the first place.

And while some have said they like the gameplay... I don't. I never liked random encounters either. You're trying to go to some far place, then some stupid enemy pops out. You slash at him, watch, repeat until you're done. Perhaps the boss battles are more interesting, but you'll have to be at a certain level to have a chance at him (omega weapon). So yea, enemies are hard not because they are smarter, but because they are tougher. It's been this way since Diablo 2, Phantasy Star, Pokemon, X-men Legends, so on and so on.

Of course AI is terrible in a lot of games like Metroid, FPS games and so on. But at least battles are over quickly, a shot to the head perhaps. Slow gameplay and a typical plot... I'll pass.

If I can stand singleplayer games, it's because they are immersive or produce an intriguing plot. Say Bioshock. Right away, the narrative leads you off, then a plane crashes, your boat explodes and you swim to a lighthouse. You see the outside moonlight, you seem flames on the water. You hear yourself breathe and cough and you see a nearby lighthouse. Right away, I feel like I'm in the situation. It's a much more realistic experience than running around with a sky camera in some town.

Guess this is why I'll never like FF games. I don't like their stories. As someone has said, one metrosexual dude rises from some faction, turns traitor, joins a group and barely defeats super bad guy, who had no good reason to destroy the world in the first place.

Revelade

And when they can't defeat the super bad guy, the metrosexual dude's dead girlfriend "occasionaly returns from beyond the grave and gives a handy deus ex machina to save the day." :P

The reason why I put that statement in italics and quotes is because that is in the EGM article, so I'm not just kidding around. ;)

It's referring too...well, those who played FFVII would know who it's referring to. Let's just say she's the famous dead girl.

[QUOTE="Articuno76"]

It would be nice if he elaborated on the things that didn't actually make sense...right now I can't see what he is talking about.

ASK_Story

I was going to write the whole article but then I would be in danger of giving away the entire story and spoil it for everyone who hasn't played it yet.

I suggest to just read it. It's the latest EGM.

And Darth Vader is really Luke Skywalker's father...

[QUOTE="ASK_Story"][QUOTE="Articuno76"]

It would be nice if he elaborated on the things that didn't actually make sense...right now I can't see what he is talking about.

Articuno76

I was going to write the whole article but then I would be in danger of giving away the entire story and spoil it for everyone who hasn't played it yet.

I suggest to just read it. It's the latest EGM.

And Darth Vader is really Luke Skywalker's father...

Or I'm just lazy. It's a long article. :P

But seriously, I remember someone writing about Aerith in a thread and some were ticked off there was no spoiler warning. So not everyone knows that Darth Vader is really a pod-racer.

But to answer your question, it's really not about making sense or whatnot, but it's really just pointing out that the story/plot is insanely wacky and far-fetched. Basically, it's really silly when you think about it. That's all.

The complaints seem to be more about how the stories aren't realistic. Complaining about how the stories involve giant dragons fighting airships and such, it seems a bit obvious that the stories aren't trying to be realistic. Regardless of the quality of the stories themselves, whether or not something is realistic hardly seems like a basis for calling it ridiculous.

However, if we're talking about the quality of FFVII itself, I wouldn't hold it to too high a standard.

They're about as deep as an Anime plot. The gameplay is what makes them good.selbie

...That is quite wrong on both accounts. FF normally have bearable gameplay. To be frank 12 was the first one they had a good gameplay system in...ever.(Except X2 if you count it)

And Define Anime plot? You mean something like Bleach, Naruto, etc...Easily. Most of the time FF are just a shounen type style anyways. At the sametime you wanna compare it to something like Satoshi Kon's work...Well. Thats kind of like someparing Micheal Bay to Stanley Kubrick.

people who hate FFVII (the game not the spin-offs) are just the same as people who hate the starwars triology, people who hate things that are popular just cause there popular.markebici

Even fantasy can make sense, in case of Star Wars (the original trilogy) where it still had a sensible storyline within it's own myth.

When fantasy goes too wacky and stops making sense anymore, than it becomes ridiculous, like Midi-chlorians for example. :roll:

That's where, in my personal opinion, the line gets drawn between Final Fantasy VII and the original Star Wars trilogy. Final Fantasy VII has too many "midi-chlorian" stuff in its story thatstart to becomeridiculous, for example. Star Wars is done in a way that makes sense within its own fantasy setting, whereas, Final Fantasy VII in contrast, doesn't.

Yeah, I guess they do have some insane stories. But you know what? That's what I like about them!

They're crazy, but they're told in a very interesting way and manage to keep you hooked until the end. They always have a great pace, and great interesting characters. Much moreso than most. I guess Square just know how to deliver a story, no matter what it is, better than most other developers.

people who hate FFVII (the game not the spin-offs) are just the same as people who hate the starwars triology, people who hate things that are popular just cause there popular.markebici

How can one call themselves American and hate Star Wars?

I think some of the plots in the various final fantasy games could do with a good remodelling to reinvigorate the series. I feel like I'm reliving the same scenario, just modified in a different way.

people who hate FFVII (the game not the spin-offs) are just the same as people who hate the starwars triology, people who hate things that are popular just cause there popular.markebici

or they realize that they are the people who've played plenty ofRPG's before FFVII came out and the only thing that game did different was be made in 3d and have a bunch of FMV.

I don't know whether to be happy FFVII brought so many people into RPG's or to be mad at it for making the genre stagnate for a while.

[QUOTE="OneWingedAngeI"][QUOTE="Video_Game_King"]

[QUOTE="sirelfblood"]The stories aren't ridiculous, they're just ***anese. And that's what makes them so special!Video_Game_King

So nationality totally changes the quality of a story? Ocarina of Time had a good story, that's Japanese. And why'd you put AN in red?

Ocarina of Time was an epic, which is why it was such a good story. Felt like King Arthur, Beowulf or the Odyssey.

it was not an epic story at all. the focus of the game was on the action and the exploration. look at final fantasy 3 if you want an epic story. i mean OOT had some interesting stuff there but it just wasnt a focal point of the game and had really no depth to it

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"]

[QUOTE="sirelfblood"]The stories aren't ridiculous, they're just ***anese. And that's what makes them so special!OneWingedAngeI

So nationality totally changes the quality of a story? Ocarina of Time had a good story, that's Japanese. And why'd you put AN in red?

I agree. and many misses the point of ff8 not having a strong baddie because it's more about demonstrating Squall and Rinoaas relationship than this whole stop the bad guy plot. Smerlus missed it :P :PP:P:P:P!

You have to keep in mind that like an Anime, somthing is lost in translation, I speak of the Advent Children Movie, of course it doesn't make alot of sense, it's been dubbed over, so unless you understand japenease you won't understand it. Also no game has a story that is not silly...