JonTron rants about gamers

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/off-topic-5/jontron-on-male-vs-female-gamers-1600940/#7

JonTron tweeted this about the gaming community, specifically the whole feminism debate. He was...blunt to say the least:

Seriously? We were going to let this guy make decisions in the gaming industry? Thank God for Egoraptor. -_-

k

....So?

@truechartreuse: so what's wrong with his statement with gaming?

It's kind of true though. It works the same way with racism too. There's a group of people who have been mistreated in the past and there is a tendency to shift the scales slightly to the opposite side of things instead of actual equality.

We should all be aware of these kinds of issues in gaming...and in fact, anywhere (in school, work, countries, etc.). Being naive that this doesn't exist or it won't ever appear, is the worst anybody can do.

In what way does a youtube comedian "make decisions in the gaming industry"?

Who?

.

exactly, and that's the whole problem of Gamergate

OH CURSE YOU! you made me search for namio harukawa!

He took issue with an issue across an industry/hobby, not with a select group/sub-group. *Shrugs* What are we supposed to be angry about again?

Also... who is this guy?

Some idiot YouTube personality. He's got a track record of awful behavior and a general dismissiveness toward any and all criticism. He's the last person I'd listen to for insightful commentary on the state of equality and gender politics in the industry.

@c_rakestraw: don't really care about that as long as he sheds light on gamergate

I really don't think gamergate is worth acknowledging. It's nothing more than a bunch of idiots from 4Chan using it as an excuse to harass and drive women out of the industry. The only coverage it deserves is to expose it for the sham it is.

I'm embarrassed to say that I actually have no idea what his statement means.

He's a famous youtuber. I assume he makes gaming videos of some sort. That's all I can say though, I don't know much about him.

Hmm, now here i see myself as someone who follows gaming and its community pretty well but i have never heard of this guy, so clearly he isn't famous, he is perhaps well known in certain circles

Anyways this thread? are we still having people try to make this gamersgate a big thing? i think the joke is known now so please move on.

@truechartreuse said:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/off-topic-5/jontron-on-male-vs-female-gamers-1600940/#7

JonTron tweeted this about the gaming community, specifically the whole feminism debate. He was...blunt to say the least:

Seriously? We were going to let this guy make decisions in the gaming industry? Thank God for Egoraptor. -_-

I urge some of you to google that fucking name, Lol.

Jon is such class.

By oppressing consoles with ableist slurs.

Where does my anger go again? Just point out the direction.

Towards the former Game Grump who says men should be oppressed by women.

He's clearly being sarcastic.

No it's not, it's people like Anita Sarkesian and Zoe Quinn using it to further their movement. I don't condone what anyone has done concerning threats and harassment. But they are not out to make the industry better

Do you have any proof of that? Because I haveplenty that it's nothing morethan a harassment campaign.

Besides, how are they possibly not out to make the industry better? Zoe's constantly been speaking out against the innate toxicity of our community for years, while Anita is simply looking to educate people on the subtle (and not-so-subtle) tropes of sexism that pervade the medium. Unless you're some nut-job who thinks inclusivity and equality is some kind of death wish (it's not), I fail to see how either one of them is somehow a threat to videogames.

Got plenty of examples, actually too many to list

also feminists like this woman don't help the cause either

Got loads more

YouTube videos? Ha! Legitimate sources, please, not these conspiracy theorists.

Funny tweet.

It's not. It's about the gaming press wanting to be unaccountable for their malpractice. Trading dishonest reviews for sex (or anything else) is wrong, even considering the mockery that gaming journalism is these days. Hence the shitstorm.

The "hate against women" angle is a red herring if ever I've seen one, a smoke bomb to divert the attention from the real issue of corruption in gaming journalism.

I've posted links to their chat logs a thousand times by now (are you people blind or something?), but I guess I'll do it again:

https://storify.com/strictmachine/gameovergate

http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/09/08/zoe-quinns-screenshots-of-4chans-dirty-tricks-were-just-the-appetizer-heres-the-first-course-of-the-dinner-directly-from-the-irc-log/

Read through them all -- don't glance; read -- and tell me this is solely about game journalism. Because based on that evidence, it sure isn't.

By the way, a single sarcastic tweet isn't a rant.

One problem with this whole thing is that it seem that any statement against feminist is consider wrong and with no merit. Pointing to a people talking bad about a person does not mean that person is just showing tropes.

Second, is that some use a heavy bias slant when showing it. I seen a person show how to argument two different sides using the same data correctly. With that you can take the same character and argue that character is a sexist or nor.

@c_rakestraw: This simply isn't true. GamerGate came about as a reaction to the term "Gamer" being used in a way that many people found distasteful. Something that the media did in response to the harrassment issues (which readers subsequently took issue with) rather than being readers direct response to the harassment stories.

The clue is in the name "Gamer"gate = a furore over the term "gamer".

There will never be such a thing as actual equality. There are inherent differences between men and women and those differences will always influence relations between the two. The simple fact that the average man is physically significantly stronger than the average woman is a pretty much unsolvable inequality that affects the way men and women view each other and themselves (not just in the physical sense).

There's a whole new side now because the industry has exploded. There's the youtubers, the sellers, the collectors, the retro scene, etc etc. Just calm down. All these ranters seem to want is actually quite in line with what any advertiser wants--money in some form. I like a few youtube game channels but it is getting kind of ridiculous imo. Whine and complain but the reality is that it comes down to money. Companies will do things to get headlines, people will talk about it, game will get hype, and then you realize you just bought a 60 dollar COD skin.

@c_rakestraw: How do you dismiss the whole incident based on what a few guys said?

"Look, these guys from one of the most retarded boards on the internet made some misogynist comments: that must mean EVERYONE is doing this because of misogyny"

That's jumping to a conclusion, feminism's favorite olympic discipline. The simple truth is that some dirt was dug up, it serves as further (redundant) evidence that modern gaming journalism has no ethics or respectability and should probably downgrade to "gaming blogging" (proper journalism has rules). Bringing gender wars into it because of what a few idiots said is just desperately trying to cover up the dirt by causing a shitstorm.

If a person who happens to be a woman gets called out on her unethical bullshit, it does not qualify as misogyny.

@Black_Knight_00: You are talking about the logical fallacies overgeneralization.

@Black_Knight_00: @Articuno76: The chat logs speak for themselves. Believe what you want.

I don't understand JonTron's tweet at all, mainly because I have no clue who the person he mention or what their vision of the world is. Damn it all.

I think those are pretty strong pieces of evidence that there are sizeable elements who are just making this a harassment campaign against Zoe, but I don't think they're representative of everyone participating in this. I've been paying attention to this all unfolding and I have no clue what gamergate is supposed to be about, and it seems nor does anyone else. Even looking at those chatlogs it seems those few people in the irc (the screenshots that do show the userlists show about 20-30 people at most which is a pretty insignificant number) are disagreed on what they're meant to be doing. Specifically one guy saying "don't tell me you still think this is about corruption in the industry", so presumably some other people participating in the chat actually believed that.

This whole thing is a mess, so it's all the more surprising that it's still going on. Personally I'd like it if this did end up with some of the more dishonest people in the industry getting found out and some cleaning up being done, but I think people like those in the irc chats there have sabotaged chances of that.

@EJ902: I don't think screenshots are evidence of anything. Anyone with an opposable thumb can easily manipulate screenshots of an unlogged irc after the fact. Now, if we were dealing with a link to a logged medium, like a forum, a Twitter post, or even a comment thread on a video (not screens of it, the actual page), that would be different, but jpgs of a chat that's gone and unverifiable? Get them outta here, they prove nothing. I can post a comment with racist slurs in it, screenshot it, delete it and use MS Paint to put another user's name and avatar next to it.

Hilarious.

"screenshots are just valid when they support my view."

@c_rakestraw: you are belittling yourself greatly with every successive reply to this thread, and frankly, you look incredibly ignorant, arrogant, and dismissive. I'd come to expect better from you the last few years.

Broad generalizations like you have made about members of this movement ignores simple reality. On that topic, #not your shield would like to have a word with you about those assumptions.

The second link c_rake posted purports to contain the entire uncut IRC chat log that zoe recorded over a period of time, I haven't read it because it's absolutely massive. There's no skill in faking something like that but it would take a hell of a lot of time and effort. Though I think after zoe posted those screenshots some people argued that they had been slightly modified to include false incriminating messages. That would be very easy to do and very easy to get away with. Whether that actually happened, I don't know. Maybe I'll look through it when I get the chance as I'd like to know more about what's been going on behind the scenes and just how many people were involved.

A very radical Japanese feminist who believed basically that men should have no rights. How JonTron could seemingly side with such a whack job is baffling.

@EJ902: considering her history, (falsely accusing and harassing TFYC and Wizard chan) that certainly isn't outside the realm of possibility. But that just plain does not matter at this point. Zoe desperately wants this to still be about her so she can make more money off it, but it's not.

At this point she is just one small piece on a much larger puzzle. She is now what she has, in truth, always been... irrelevant. Her 15 minutes are over.

I don't think JonTron was using him as an example of someone whose views he supports, sounds like the opposite to me.

On the subject of the irc logs, here is a long retort to them, the author argues that a number of Zoe's claims about the irc chats are false but I haven't checked his times myself.

https://medium.com/@cainejw/a-narrative-of-gamergate-and-examination-of-claims-of-collusion-with-4chan-5cf6c1a52a60

This has another to do with Gamergate though, this is, and has always been about, JonTron.

Well JonTron's tweet is about gamergate which is why people in this topic started talking about it

I think he was saying that there will always be a female that scream about the way females are being treated unless females completely dominate males.