Hatred Is Coming… What Can We Expect?

Steams first AO Rated game Hatred is murdering across our PC screens June 1^st, so it looks like this game might see the light of day. And that day is pretty damn close. So what kind of game play do we all think Hatred will entail? Here’s my money in the hat:

This game has been described as a mass murder simulation with the sole purpose to cause complete anarchy by killing anything that moves – civilians and law enforcement alike. Therefore, one thing that could potentially be ruled out is a narrative right? Or will there be other elements to the game play other than shooting everything?

I can hardly see the civilians being constant target practice as you will probably spend half the game defending yourself from the law. But, what if there are rival killers? Inspired by the playable antagonists actions, these other murders could serve as bosses; perhaps akin to the psychopaths that occupy the world of Dead Rising.

If the game play’s goal is to survive as long as possible, it would be interesting to see if you could hide from the law; whether it be in a bush or the once occupied house of the now slaughtered family, until the heat dies down and you can resume your “genocide crusade”. The trailer does show you can enter the sewers. Your actions could be documented by radio news flashes (like the GTA series does when you receive a wanted levels or complete certain bits of the story) adding more depth to your grim mission.

Will there be levels?

How do you think collecting ammo works? Maybe you just shoot everything until your down to your last bullet which you save for yourself.

I’ve rambled for long enough and now I want to see what you lot think? This game is going to create quite a stir (for about a day or two) so I just want to see if people have any theories about the game play other than, “the purpose is you kill innocent people”. Because if that’s ALL you do, then the experience between sessions better be short.

Who knows, the big twist that could justify everything is the good ol’ fashioned IT WAS ALL A DREAM…

Thanks for reading :)

I still think it's super hypocritical to have an AO rated game like Hated on steam, but it's not okay to have games that depict graphic sex on the service. I know they're two different things, but the line has fully been crossed. If Steam is going to allow AO games, then everything should be free game at this point.

Anyway, if Hatred actually serves as some interesting political commentary or has a decent narrative, then maybe it'll be okay. If it's just mindless stupidity, then that would be really dumb in a bad way.

I highly doubt the devs are capable of that. Nor are they even aiming for it. This game is obviously just aiming to be a fun time. Trying to turn it into political commentary would be moronic.

It's the only way I could justify playing it. The actual game itself looks terrible.

Link to release?

I'm expecting a poorly executed Hotline Miami clone, except without the style or fragmented psychotic narrative. Blandness in other words.

@MirkoS77: If you mean link to the article detailing the release date, use this link:

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/steam-to-get-its-first-adults-only-rated-game/1100-6426962/

Hope that helps.

I'm expecting a garbage game that just uses shock value and controversy to sell.

op - yeah i'm curious how they'll handle the being hunted part of the game too. could make it interesting because the rest - killing with no motive, backstory or whatever in old school isometric 3d - has no appeal to me tbh. also i believe there will be seven free roam levels

That is just silly. Horrific acts of violence streamed together will get some outrage vendors all ticked off, but that is it. Boobs cause organized backlash. Actual penetration? People would lose their minds.

I is a really simple test: Can you sit down and watch Dread with your 12 year old son or daughter and tweet about it without being arrested? Of course. Some people might be upset and you might become internet infamous for a couple days at worst. Even that is unlikely. Sitting down and watching a pornographic move that pushes the porn envelope as hard as Dread pushes the violence envelope on the other hand?

Jail.

Our society takes graphic violence way less seriously then graphic sex. The distinction is even more ingrained when minors are anywhere in the vicinity. Recognizing this fact isn't hypocrisy, it is refusing to slit the wrist of your business. An individual can disagree with this standard if they choose to, but that won't stop the consequences that can be unleashed if they fail to respect that standard.

I've said it before, I think this is in a sense a sort of spiritual sucessor to the original Postal game. Will it be good?, Unsure. I'm not expecting a great story, if hardly any but that it's more or less start with " Have at it but once the cops come around, you're not the hunter anymore" kind of gameplay.
Will it be fun?, Some will like it, others won't. Much like videogames in general.
I'll give it a try though.

Actually i dont think it will create that much of a stir, yes there will be a few stories about its release when its june but other than that i think we will see that most have moved on.

That works, thanks.

You can expect me to hate it, I will be filled with so much anger and hate that they released this game that I will go outside and start beating up people.

Dredd is rated R. It obviously doesn't push the envelope THAT much or else it would have been an NC-17 movie.

So the proper analogy isn't watching a hardcore porno with your son or daughter, but watching a movie that's rated R for sexual content.

And I'm pretty sure you won't go to jail for that, seeing as how cinemas allow underage admission to R-rated movies with a parent's supervision.

Regardless, allowing sexually explicit AO games on Steam doesn't doesn't seem like anything other than a legal avenue for buying what's POSSIBLY porn. I mean, Netflix has movies that are rated NC-17 for sexual content, but that doesn't mean that they're PORNOS. And it's not as if people lost their damn minds once Netflix started carrying NC-17 movies. And furthermore, there are legal avenues for purchasing actual hardcore porn, and it doesn't look like people have lost their minds over that. Just what exactly do you think would happen if Steam started carrying games that are rated AO for sexual content?

@creepychainsaw: it's going to be awesome

Your position would have merit if graphic violence was behind an adult only age gate. It isn't, quite specifically, because our society is a lot more open to showing images of a sword hacking through someone, or a bullet ripping through someone, then they are showing images of extremely tame sexual content. My entire point is that we classify violent content and sexual content extremely differently.

I mean seriously, which would shock a sane person more in real life? A) walking in on two people engaging in oral sex B) walking in on someone carving up another person. In video form, the first is adults only and the second is just the horror genre's irreverence on gore. Extreme violence content is just fine, something you can take your twelve year old out to see in public. Trying that with Deepthroat will land you in jail.

Again, not saying that should change. It is just reality.

As for what would happen if Steam started putting up porn games? I have a funny feeling that if (insert incredibly kinky Japanese sex simulator involving young girls here) was on the front page Steam, lots of people would make tons of money painting steam as the most evil thing gaming has ever seen. Putting Hatred on the front page of Steam will only make little groups make a little money painting games/gamers/gamer creators as icky.

I don't see anything wrong with having an adults only section for Steam. Many digital sites have a normal store page for regular stuff, but they also have an adults only section for stuff involving hardcore violence and sex. It's really not that obscure of an idea. Obviously, that sort of stuff wouldn't be on the normal front page of the Steam store.

I don't know why you're bringing children into this discussion. We're talking about adult games here. Many video stores have a closed off adult section to prevent children from looking at the more crazy stuff. However, the rest of the video stores had the normal offerings of movies. It's not illegal to offer both Normal and Hardcore content in a store.

It doesn't matter if you a problem with it. Like paid mods, it is the reaction of the internet that matters. Look at what happened over Hatred. Imagine what gaming sites would say about the stuff that would come out of A/O Greenlight.

As for the talk about children, it is used to distinguish between how acceptable violent content is when compared to sexual content. The answer is: Very! If you have a problem with this, don't look at Steam or Xbox or Sony. Any of them would be pleased as punch to sell you any digital content you want to buy. They don't care about what data is downloaded from there servers anymore then ISPs, they care about the revenue stream

There is however a reason Redtube doesn't have a console app, even if it is extremely likely it would get more use then any pizza delivery app. It isn't that they hate money, or are attempting to push a particular standard on anyone. You can't get mad at companies pandering to western sensibilities in the west. If you want Sony to send you a bunch of games that would be AO in the west they would be happy to do so. You need only import them. No way in the world they will be releasing them officially over here for some time, but you can go onto a Japanese site anytime you want and buy them.

I realize that society is more open to showing violent images than sexual images, but that doesn't really dispute my point. Using movies as an analogy (don't blame me, you started it), there's still sexual content up to and including actual hardcore pornography, and it's not like we're rioting in the streets over it.

And again, we aren't even talking about pornographic games, just games that are rated AO for sexual content. That's more equivalent to the NC-17 rating for movies. And guess what? The majority of NC-17 movies that I'm aware of these days aren't even hardcore pornos. The people who make actual hardcore pornos typically don't bother getting them rated at all.

But my point is that you're kind of supporting my argument. DESPITE the fact that we're so uptight when it comes to sexually explicit imagery in entertainment, we're STILL pretty much okay with everything up to and including hardcore pornography so long as it's boxed off to the side so that we can easily avoid it if we don't want to see it. Movies being the closest analogy, we're apparently okay with NC-17 content being offered on Netflix and we're okay with there being fully legal avenues for buying hardcore pornos. I don't see why the situation would be any different with AO games, particularly with Steam. Sure, if you were talking about Gamestop carrying AO games on their shelves, that ain't gonna happen (the same way that Wal-Mart won't carry NC-17 movies on their shelves). But with internet platforms the solution is easy. Make a separate section for adults only, and then require age verification before allowing the purchase to go through.

And I understand your point about people freaking out and screaming "we have to protect the children from seeing sex." The thought of sexually explicit content being in ANY games in say, the 1980's or 90's might seem ridiculous for that reason because video games are inherently for kids. But it's 2015 and I think that attitude has changed A LOT. I'm not saying that people think that games have become as mature as movies, but I think there's been a hell of a lot of progress towards showing that video games aren't just for kids. I think that society has largely woken up to the fact that a shitload of adults are gamers, and that it's okay to make games that cater to an adult audience. Hell, look at the consoles. Compare the major consoles today to the major consoles from like, the 90's. Despite the fact that you're still not gonna see an AO game on the PS4 or X1, compare the content that we have on consoles now to what was on consoles back in the day. There's stuff being released now that never would have had a chance of being released on major consoles 20 years ago. I think people get that games are not just for kids, and that they don't have to go into "protect the children" mode as soon as we start making and selling major games with content that is clearly for adults only and that would totally be deemed acceptable if it was in a movie instead of a video game.

You couldn't possibly have picked a worse example. What happened with Hatred is that people complained and then the game got delisted and put back. This all being BEFORE it was rated. AFTER being rated and expectedly hit with with the AO rating, Steam is distributing the game anyway.

Bottom line is that people DID complain about the game, the game did get hit with the AO rating, and it's still gonna be sold on Steam. And if I may speculate, my projection is that it will get a little bit more publicity upon release and then no one's gonna give a shit about it 6 months later.

It's one of those European games (a bit like the Witcher in a way) that offsets it's tiny marketing budget by inserting extreme themes. This is how Grindhouse films used to work - they couldn't afford great actors, great effects (or even great scripts), so they made up for it with extreme themes and ideas. They called a lot of these films 'exploitation', and I think there ought to be a subset of games called 'exploitation' too. Hatred can be the first inductee...

The Witcher had extreme themes?

this will just be another Postal. a curiosity for the sake of controvercy, but most likely a bad game.

@MrGeezer: You are focused too much on specific ratings things get while I am talking about why they get them. We are talking past each other on that point. As for the rest:

There is currently a company under investigation in the UK for it's advertizements. This happened after a campaign of vandalism and bomb threats was hurled their way. The reason for all this heat, property damage, threats of violence, and now an investigation by the government?

Advertizement had a woman in a Bikini

I am sorry, but companies who do business in the west, particularly if a lot of the business comes from the USA and the UK, have to deal with rather puritan attitudes when it comes to sex. They don't have to deal with this when it comes to violence. That is the reason hyper violence is allowed on Steam, or Xbox Live or PSN but sex isn't. (Except of course PS in Japan)

Violence.

I meant the Witcher 2 (never played the first one).

Gamespot said that TW2: "juxtapos[ed] sex and brutailty", IGN said it had a "a grimy, unfiltered, brutal world".

The thing is, you never participate in any of the adult themes in person - they're always in cut scenes or dialogue. So I think the game doesn't benefit directly from these inclusions, and they're just there to help it get noticed.

I admit that I was approaching this from the angle of the USA.

However, I understand what you're saying and how this applies to game DEVELOPMENT. As in most companies won't develop certain kinds of games because even though they may be legal and accepted in one market, they may be banned in a different market. And developing for one market wouldn't justify the costs. Don't get me wrong, I understand that and that's totally a thing that happens.

However, isn't the situation different for Steam, since Valve isn't gonna be developing the game? We're talking about a game that has presumably already been made, and now it's being made available on Steam. It very well may not be cost effective for the developer to make the game if it's gonna be banned in certain markets, but I'd imagine that the costs of putting the game on Steam are DRASTICALLY lower than the costs of actually making the game. Once a game has ALREADY been made, and has received an AO rating for sexual content (or whatever the equivalent rating is in a different country), what's preventing Valve from simply releasing that game on Steam in the countries in which it is allowed?

Do you actually know what the Japanese version of Steam releases? I don't. I however wouldn't be shocked if some of it would be AO in the US. Either way, interested in the facts if you have them. Understand if you don't.

As for what is stopping them from doing it here: The same reason Sony doesn't release it here. Sony is like the picture perfect example. They release content in Japan that would be considered AO here. If they release here, they alter it to fit an MA rating or below, but mostly they just don't bother. Sony doesn't withhold this content, or worse spend money to alter it, because they are enforcing some hypocritical standard. They just don't want to deal with the backlash. They don't want their name coming up on a bunch of blogs and tweets decrying them for exploiting women or perverting the youth or whatever.

Businesses by in large care about money more then politics or decency standards or whatever. I mean heck, compare Fox News with the primetime line up on Fox's entertainment channel. If a company is withholding content because of a standard of decency, it is usually about money, and nothing else. After all, the media is always getting more and more graphic in general. That isn't coincidence, that is the exploitation of the opportunity provided by relaxing standards. They will put real people fighting to the death on the air if you give them exclusive rights.

TL:DR With a business, everything but money is a secondary priority.

See, that's the thing...you're saying that the companies won't release the content because the public would go nuts over it. But based on what I've seen pretty much every time this kind of shit has happened, what ACTUALLY happens is that some people get mad for a little while and then quickly move onto the next "moral outrage of the month." In RARE cases there's serious consideration of legislating content. But the majority of attempts to legislate content fall flat on their faces, and the VAST majority of outrages never even make it close to an ATTEMPT at legislating content.

So it's just funny to me that you're talking about companies being SO desperate to avoid this kind of shit because of the backlash, when the backlash tends to be pretty fucking fickle. Hatred being a classic example. The only reason anyone cares about this game at all is because of the backlash. Valve put the game on Steam anyway, and now hardly anyonew is really talking about it (at least not like they were before) because they've all stopped giving a shit and have move on to the next moral outrage.

It looks to me like companies won't release these kinds of games in the USA because they think it won't fly with the public here. But from my standpoint, the public mostly doesn't give a shit (even if it LOOKS like they give a shit for a little while). It's like the companies are saying "we can't release that in the USA, because Americans would lose their shit", while Americans are mostly just shrugging their shoulders saying, "meh, whatever, I don't care."

Okay, Gabe has a figure for you. Ticking off the internet cost a million dollars a day.

You might look at internet outrage and think "Meh" but that doesn't mean billion dollar companies have the same opinion. If 1% of people get their undies in a wad you hardly notice. For Gabe that is in the neighborhood of a million people, and that is assuming only his customers react.

I wouldn't consider those to be extreme. It's pretty much standard fantasy. It's a bit more toned down than Game of Thrones.

1) Source required.

2) What the hell do you even mean by "ticking off the internet?" Did revenue fall by a million dollars per day? Is that for a specific instance of the internet getting pissed off? Is that an average figure? Your post is basically meaningless. It's not sourced, and you're also not even clear on what you're trying to say.

3) Also let's not forget that the internet got "ticked off" about Hatred, and it's apparently still worth putting that game on Steam. So it's pretty clear that we need a little bit more clarification on what you're talking about.

I think in a real life situation, seeing someone being carved up would be FAR WORSE than seeing two people go it at bedroom gymnastics. For one, upon seeing someone getting murdered, your instinct would kick in and have you running away in terror, and then once you'd calm down, you'd call the police because in illegal act is being committed... If you walked in on someone having sex, you'd be like, "OMG IM SO SORRY" and walk back out again snickering to yourself. It should be exactly like that in the virtual sense, but for some reason this society has a very backwards approach on violence and sex. It is... simply hypocritical.

But here you apply the wrong kind of logic, real life violence is real life violence and virtual violence is virtual and most people knows the difference where sex is pretty much sex no matter if you see it real life or in a virtual form. And a platform like steam has to consider that , since it would tarnish it if they allowed porn on a place that is mostly for kids.

Certainly also not forgetting that Hatred is no more violent than hundreds of games already on steam.

If we can assume that people can tell the difference between real violence and fake violence why can't we also assume that people can tell the difference between porn and real sex? There will always be people with issues that can't tell the difference between fiction and reality, that is not exclusive to porn or violence.

Is steam mostly for kids, it sells a lot of games that are rated M/18? Amazon sell porn and sex toys, where's the backlash against that?

Hatred is the only game on steam to get an AO rating for it's violence, so don't try claim it's no different to any other violent game on steam.

Given that you have provided no such thing for any of your assertions, I doubt there is much of a point.

You can't assume that people can apply the same distinction between real sex and virtual sex because there is such a thing as self-gratification, which is the reason why the porn industry is a multi-billion $$ industry and why girls can earn a ton of cash simply by posing nude on a webcam. And porn has no place on a platform for kids. Which is what steam is despite what some might think. Even if you can find a lot of games rated M/18. Its still for kids.

You could argue the same with violence but violence in games have always been there and again there is a huge difference between virtual violence and real life violence. And there is not the same kind of self-gratification in the majority of players, not saying there isn't the sick people, but its a minority and they will get the same thing from movies, books, etc.....

Hatred got the AO rating in NA , it does not have the rating in europe or anywhere else. But the main point here is that it got the rating because of politics and not because its so much worse than GTA, Postal, Manhunt and many other games on steam.

I just seriously do not understand what you're saying here with Steam being for kids. You just contradicted yourself. If it was "for kids", you wouldn't be able to find those M/18 games. At all. People of all ages purchase games off Steam. It's for ALL AGES. You might as well say Xbox One and PlayStation 4 are for kids since you find Lego games on them. Hell, you can't even say any Nintendo system is just for kids, because you can also find M/18 games there also. What's for kids? Marvel Avenger lunch boxes. Those are for kids.

Most of what I've typed is merely speculation and questioning, rather than claims of fact. Sure, there are a few claims of fact in there, such as "Dredd is rated R." And if you'd like a source on something, I'd be happy to provide one as longas you point out the specific claim that you're talking about.

but yes, "Gabe said" requires a source. ESPECIALLY if the way that you've paraphrased him is so vague that I can't even tell from your post what Gabe actually was trying to say.

Keep in mind: I'm not asking for a source because I think you're making shit up. I'm asking for a source because you did a poor job of explaining your point. Rather than asking you to explain it more properly, it'd be easier for me to just read "what Gabe said" and have it explained in his words. I didn't ask for a source because I think you're lying, I asked for a source because your wording makes your statement so confusing that it's meaningless. And yes...if you find something about my posts confusing or incoherent, to the point that you can't understand what I'm trying to say, then by all means point out to me that I'm not making sense.

Not sure what you mean is a contradiction but just because Steam has M18 rated games doesn't take away that the platform´s user base is mostly kids under 18.

But anyways Hatred is there and luckily Steam is not going to allow porn games on it, which i see nothing wrong with at all, in fact i support that decision 100%.

Since steam is supposedly aimed at children shouldn't they only sell children's games?

Tons of stores sell both children's games and pornography, so why do you assume that there will be an backlash against this? Steam already sells AO rated games now, so you're argument that steam is for children is insanely stupid. Legally selling Hated is not different to selling porn.

You took the position that you knew how customers, on the nationwide level, will react to certain kinds of content. That is a pretty outlandish claim, considering you likely lack things like a department dedicated to market research. You know, like Sony has. You then used your extremely limited anecdotal evidence as the only support for the claim. It contained the word meh.

Now suddenly sources are important, even though the source of your argument is you.

Yeah, no thanks.

No, I speculated how customers would react on a nationwide level. And that's not the kind of thing for which a source even exists, because the thing that we're talking about (Steam carrying games that are rated AO for sexual content) hasn't happened yet and there's therefore no data on it.

And yes, sources are important when you start attributing statements to a particular person. Surely you see the difference between speculating what the reaction would be if X were to happen, vs stating that a particular person said a particular thing.

And like I said before, the only reason I asked for a source in the first place was because I had no idea what you were actually trying to say. Learn to get your point across better. If you had better explained your position so that it was more clear, there's a good chance that I would have taken it for granted that "Gabe said it" and wouldn't have asked for a source at all.

Anyway, thanks for admitting that you're full of crap and that "Gabe" never said it.

Haha such irony. Source? =P

Have fun Geez.

I'm curious. Do you have a link to Steam's demographics? I ask, because the average age of PC gamers is usually thought to be in their 30s, which would make them the majority market. I'm just really wanting to see how many kids stack up against adults.

Even then, your wording that Steam is "for kids" implies that it's solely for kids You did amend your wording to say that it's "mostly kids", yet they still enough M/18 games strictly for adults to render a statement of "mostly for kids" null and void. Again, Steam is for all ages.

There is no link as such to a steam user database age avg. But a bit of google research showed that if you take the biggest games on Steam, DOTA, Payday 2, CS Go the avg. age of their demographics is around 17-18. Infact in Dota almost 90% is under 25. Similar stats is current in the other games.

But ok, we can say that steam is mostly for kids. Because sure steam is for all ages but considering who actually uses steam (based on the above) its safe to say that porn games have nothing to do on steam. Also there is the whole image thing, Valve probably don't want the consequences that goes with going down that dark road into the red light district.

Hatred might be a game with a violent touch, but if you look at it , it has no more violent gameplay than GTA particular not with the First person view.

No one has played Hatred, so it's impossible to make that call. I think Max Payne 3 is the most violent shooter in video games. However, I never in a hundred years would have came to that conclusion from just watching the trailers.

True no one has played hatred but i don't know about you but its not that hard to form an opinion based on what is being shown in gameplay trailers so far.