Clarification: X1 used game sales. How it works. The simple truth.

What you CAN DO:

-You can still go to any retailer that has agreed to MS's Terms of Service to sell your used game. 

-Retailers are free to charge/offer you whatever they want. Just like it is now.

-MS/Developers get a cut of the profit retailers make.

-When you sell a game, it gets wiped from your account. When a new person buys the used game, it gets added to theirs.

-You can still share games by going over to your friends house and using your account.

-You can share games by letting them have your account information.

-No direct fee. For retail.

What is NOT clarified:

-No private sales, person-to-person sale?

-No rentals?

-Will Ebay be included?

-Unconfirmed: used game retailers cut to be only 10%. Less than what they are getting now.

-UPDATE: "Many readers are asking whether the £35 will be additional cost on top of the price of buying the game. No, we believe that the £35 figure which is not our number, incidentally would cover the entire transaction. If correct this would leave retail with a cut per sale of around £3.50."

Publishers to receive cut of Xbox One pre-owned sales at retail

 A gamer walks into a retailer and hands over the game they wish to sell. This will only be possible at retailers who have agreed to Microsofts T&Cs and more importantly integrated Microsofts cloud-based Azure pre-owned system into its own.

The game is then registered as having been trade-in on Microsofts system. The consumer who handed it over will subsequently see the game wiped from their account hence the until now ambiguous claim from Phil Harrison that the Xbox One would have to check in to Microsofts servers every 24 hours.

The retailer can then sell the pre-owned game at whatever price they like, although as part of the system the publisher of the title in question will automatically receive a percentage cut of the sale. As will Microsoft. The retailer will pocket the rest.

"While there have been many potential scenarios discussed, we have only confirmed that we designed Xbox One to enable our customers to trade in and resell games at retail. Beyond that, we have not confirmed any specific scenarios. Another piece of clarification around playing games at a friends house should you choose to play your game at your friends house, there is no fee to play that game while you are signed in to your profile.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/publishers-to-receive-cut-of-xbox-one-pre-owned-sales-at-retail/0116137

Try to keep all the talk on this topic in here guys.

*Mods could you please lock all the other threads on this topic that have a lot of misinformation? I will try to update this with the other issues as it becomes available. Probably could use a sticky.

This mean Gamestop will be getting even more money than ever before.Dreamcast86

Damn, read! Less.

That is about as one sides as it can get. This is a nice way of saying MS will put you out of buisness. 10% goes to retailers, lol, there is not one that will support that. This is another way of saying used games are done.dvader654

Why?

It's actually a nice compromise.

GameStop brick and mortar will suffer. GameStop online will be fine. 

I don't mean to sound like an ass but personally I don't care about GameStop, the middle man.

DVD and CD brick and mortar stores died a long time ago. It was only a matter of time games would follow through as well. 

I'm more interested in finding out if they are extending this ability to us personally and Ebay. Would be great if they would make it easier for us to sell games directly to each other.

Taking out the middle man does not bother me one bit.

Consumers will end up paying more for their games on average if that happens. They're keeping Gamestop in the equation, but cutting their margins. To survive, Gamestop will be more reluctant to make sales and price drops, since they now have to make money on new game sales.

MS needs to set up a decent digital distribution system ASAP. They can't just mess up retailers profit margins and jack up retail prices without giving customers a decent alternative. Well, they can, but it would just make the PS4 and PC even more attractive than they already are.

Consumers will end up paying more for their games on average if that happens. They're keeping Gamestop in the equation, but cutting their margins. To survive, Gamestop will be more reluctant to make sales and price drops, since they now have to make money on new game sales.

MS needs to set up a decent digital distribution system ASAP. They can't just mess up retailers profit margins and jack up retail prices without giving customers a decent alternative. Well, they can, but it would just make the PS4 and PC even more attractive than they already are.

ReddestSkies

That or Ebay. I could care less about GameStop. I just want to be able to sell my game to you, either directly or on Ebay. That's all. Don't force me to go to GameStop, or through a middle man.

PC doesn't have this at all. So why does it make the PC more attractive? It would be freaking fantastic if PC's at least had something like this.

However, I do see the benefit of developers getting a cut even though I don't think they necessarily deserve it. I'd still rather them get it than GameStop though.

There are some positives. Smaller developers, whose games are usually not bought new except for a few, and then bought used, will get a small cut. Could help developers take more risks. Niche games will have longer legs. They may also allow developers to lower prices, in which case, being able to profit second hand, could drop game prices similar to the PC.

So you can buy the used game at gamestop for, what 50 bucks? And then you have to spend 60 bucks to activate it? Wow, how are you defending this?Black_Knight_00

No, that's impossible. There would be no reason not to buy the game new. The cost of the entire transaction is basically the price of a new game which is still insanely stupid. Retailers will lower the price if they want to sell used games at all and they will keep lowering it as the price of the new game falls. It doesn't seem like things will change that much, it's just that Microsoft and the publishers will cut into the used games market.

The real problem is that it seems you won't be able to sell your game directly to another person, so you'll probably be losing money on each sale as retailers will have a complete monopoly and dictate the trade-in price which will most likely be extremely low.

[QUOTE="Dreamcast86"]This mean Gamestop will be getting even more money than ever before.alexwatchtower

Damn, read! Less.

They will get less money per sale, but on the other hand, ALL used game sales will go through select retailers. So it's still a good trade-off for them.

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]So you can buy the used game at gamestop for, what 50 bucks? And then you have to spend 60 bucks to activate it? Wow, how are you defending this?UpInFlames

No, that's impossible. There would be no reason not to buy the game new. The cost of the entire transaction is basically the price of a new game which is still insanely stupid. Retailers will lower the price if they want to sell used games at all and they will keep lowering it as the price of the new game falls. It doesn't seem like things will change that much, it's just that Microsoft and the publishers will cut into the used games market.

The real problem is that it seems you won't be able to sell your game directly to another person, so you'll probably be losing money on each sale as retailers will have a complete monopoly and dictate the trade-in price which will most likely be extremely low.

Exactly. As far as selling your game to a retail store, nothing really changes for you. LOL. I wrote it as simple as I could if people would just read.

And the other part, as it says, is uncomfirmed. But if Ebay signs up for their ToS, that solves at least part of that problem.

F*cking hell this is so fascist it's unbelievable.Black_Knight_00

How is that fascist?

I think its only fair that both the publisher and MS get a cut of the sale.

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]F*cking hell this is so fascist it's unbelievable.S0lidSnake

How is that fascist?

I think its only fair that both the publisher and MS get a cut of the sale.

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]F*cking hell this is so fascist it's unbelievable.S0lidSnake

How is that fascist?

I think its only fair that both the publisher and MS get a cut of the sale.

I still don't think it's fair they do on used games, but as long as we can still get something for our game.

Basically what it amounts to is this. People who buy games used, will be paying a small margin to the developer and microsoft, rather than just to places like GameStop. They will share that profit now. Now that part would be fair but only as long as it's them, Microsoft and developers, that provide that used game market services too.

It would be fair, if they also provide the digital distribution service.

But yeah, it's a lot better than the initial information that came out.

So NO MATTER WHAT - If we purchase it from craiglist or ebay - you STILL have to take it to a retailers (GameSpot, Best Buy, Fry's, etc) to have them place the "KEY"?? or is that even an option!?

I feel like the only way to sale a game now is strickly through a retailer who will give you pennies for the game you paid $60 for. Wonder how this will effect a games longitivity or rare value for collector's in the future when this gen well over... you wont be able to ACTIVATE IT!

Here's another thought: ok, gamestop only gets 10% of the used game sale. Does that mean the price will never drop? Because if I only got 10% of the sale I'd sure as hell would make sure to make that 10% as big as I can. Also it's not true that "nothing changes for you" because the soul of commerce is competition: it's thanks to competition that retailers are forced to lower prices on products, but as UpInFlames said, only selected retailers will be allowed into this loop, meaning we'll have a lobby holding a monopoly on used games and cutting private parties (you and I) out of the loop. Less competition=less pressure on retailers=higher final prices.Black_Knight_00

Its a shitty deal. It's anti-consumer and morally and ethically wrong. But at least i will still be able to trade in my games.

So NO MATTER WHAT - If we purchase it from craiglist or ebay - you STILL have to take it to a retailers (GameSpot, Best Buy, Fry's, etc) to have them place the "KEY"?? or is that even an option!?

I feel like the only way to sale a game now is strickly through a retailer who will give you pennies for the game you paid $60 for. Wonder how this will effect a games longitivity or rare value for collector's in the future when this gen well over... you wont be able to ACTIVATE IT!

NexApex

First of all peronal, and craiglist and ebay sales have not been confirmed. Doesn't mean you can't they just said that's what they have figured out so far.

But no, assuming that is possible, you would likely be able to activate it yourself. I have no clue for what price though. Perhaps there will be a fee when they allow direct person to person sales? Might be a flat fee, so that's something gamers might get adjusted to quickly. In other words if you know there's going to be a 10% fee to active the account, say $5,  that would just roll back to how much you would be able to pay me for the used game.

If I wanna sell a game, and I'm selling it for $30, you know it will cost you $35. They probably -hopefully - will do something like this.

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]Here's another thought: ok, gamestop only gets 10% of the used game sale. Does that mean the price will never drop? Because if I only got 10% of the sale I'd sure as hell would make sure to make that 10% as big as I can. Also it's not true that "nothing changes for you" because the soul of commerce is competition: it's thanks to competition that retailers are forced to lower prices on products, but as UpInFlames said, only selected retailers will be allowed into this loop, meaning we'll have a lobby holding a monopoly on used games and cutting private parties (you and I) out of the loop. Less competition=less pressure on retailers=higher final prices.S0lidSnake

Its a shitty deal. It's anti-consumer and morally and ethically wrong. But at least i will still be able to trade in my games.

Couldn't have said it better myself. And thats how they will get us to swallow it. "At least I will still be able to trade in my games."

Here's another thought: ok, gamestop only gets 10% of the used game sale. Does that mean the price will never drop? Because if I only got 10% of the sale I'd sure as hell would make sure to make that 10% as big as I can. Also it's not true that "nothing changes for you" because the soul of commerce is competition: it's thanks to competition that retailers are forced to lower prices on products, but as UpInFlames said, only selected retailers will be allowed into this loop, meaning we'll have a lobby holding a monopoly on used games and cutting private parties (you and I) out of the loop. Less competition=less pressure on retailers=higher final prices.Black_Knight_00

By completely controlling the entire used market, it's possible that prices for new games won't fall as fast as they do now, therefore used game prices won't fall either. But as always, prices will be determined by supply and demand so we'll just have to wait and see how will things change in reality. One thing's for sure, used game prices will fall in accordance to new game prices.

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]F*cking hell this is so fascist it's unbelievable.S0lidSnake

How is that fascist?

I think its only fair that both the publisher and MS get a cut of the sale.

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]F*cking hell this is so fascist it's unbelievable.RandoIphF

How is that fascist?

I think its only fair that both the publisher and MS get a cut of the sale.

They're not taking it from you. They are taking it from the guy buying it. Kind of like if I buy your Cobalt I have to pay the state, registration and title fees.

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]Here's another thought: ok, gamestop only gets 10% of the used game sale. Does that mean the price will never drop? Because if I only got 10% of the sale I'd sure as hell would make sure to make that 10% as big as I can. Also it's not true that "nothing changes for you" because the soul of commerce is competition: it's thanks to competition that retailers are forced to lower prices on products, but as UpInFlames said, only selected retailers will be allowed into this loop, meaning we'll have a lobby holding a monopoly on used games and cutting private parties (you and I) out of the loop. Less competition=less pressure on retailers=higher final prices.alexwatchtower

Its a shitty deal. It's anti-consumer and morally and ethically wrong. But at least i will still be able to trade in my games.

Couldn't have said it better myself. And thats how they will get us to swallow it. "At least I will still be able to trade in my games."

It's a monopoly and monoplies hurt commerce on both sides.

The only reason gamestop doesn't give you 25 cent for your games today is because they know you can sell it for more on ebay, but with ebay out of the loop they have you by the balls

And thats how they will get us to swallow it. "At least I will still be able to trade in my games."alexwatchtower

Actually what I will say to Microsoft, to quote the Hitch is "No, F*CK YOU". This is the point where I'm just done. If Sony is doing this too, I'll just have to keep playing what I already have and get by with a Wii U for now, and start back to retro gaming like I did in 2011. If others want to open wide and just "swallow it" by all means they can do so.  This isn't a lifestyle for me, it's a hobby.  I can cash in my chips and leave the table, and unlike some other hobbies, I have dozens of previous consoles worth of games to maintain an interest in it for (quite literally) decades to come.

I have this odd sense PC gaming is going to overtake consoles big time this generation.dkdk999

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

Its a shitty deal. It's anti-consumer and morally and ethically wrong. But at least i will still be able to trade in my games.

Black_Knight_00

Couldn't have said it better myself. And thats how they will get us to swallow it. "At least I will still be able to trade in my games."

It's a monopoly and monoplies hurt commerce on both sides.

The only reason gamestop doesn't give you 25 cent for your games today is because they know you can sell it for more on ebay, but with ebay out of the loop they have you by the balls

Uhm, ok in this thread I posted a link to a source. So far there has been no comment on that. If you have a link which says that you can't, please show it. Otherwise stop assuming! There's been enough confusion about this already.

And it's not a monopoly. There will be more than one retailer competing for your used games. 

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

Its a shitty deal. It's anti-consumer and morally and ethically wrong. But at least i will still be able to trade in my games.

Black_Knight_00

Couldn't have said it better myself. And thats how they will get us to swallow it. "At least I will still be able to trade in my games."

It's a monopoly and monoplies hurt commerce on both sides.

The only reason gamestop doesn't give you 25 cent for your games today is because they know you can sell it for more on ebay, but with ebay out of the loop they have you by the balls

Good point. Its a shitty situation all around.

F*ck Microsoft. This is only going to hurt the industry.

 

Good point. Its a shitty situation all around.

F*ck Microsoft. This is only going to hurt the industry.

S0lidSnake

No this is definitely going to help the industry. It will hurt videogame retailers though for sure.

Bullshit or not, I'm just trying to get the facts straight so we can actually compare it to our other options.

[QUOTE="RandoIphF"]

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

How is that fascist?

I think its only fair that both the publisher and MS get a cut of the sale.

alexwatchtower

They're not taking it from you. They are taking it from the guy buying it. Kind of like if I buy your Cobalt I have to pay the state, registration and title fees.

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]

[QUOTE="RandoIphF"] So if I sell my Cobalt to fund a new car, should Chevrolet get a cut of the profit?

dotWithShoes

They're not taking it from you. They are taking it from the guy buying it. Kind of like if I buy your Cobalt I have to pay the state, registration and title fees.

And I already said I don't think they should. Totally against it. It was a retail briefing between Microsoft and retailers. Read the link;)

And I already said I don't think they should. Totally against it. It was a retail briefing between Microsoft and retailers. Read the link;)

alexwatchtower

Uhm, ok in this thread I posted a link to a source. So far there has been no comment on that. If you have a link which says that you can't, please show it. Otherwise stop assuming! There's been enough confusion about this already.

And it's not a monopoly. There will be more than one retailer competing for your used games. 

alexwatchtower

F*ck Microsoft.

S0lidSnake

Not one thing MS announced has been good imo.

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

 

Good point. Its a shitty situation all around.

F*ck Microsoft. This is only going to hurt the industry.

alexwatchtower

No this is definitely going to help the industry.

Nope. It's not. Like Blackknight stated, this is going to drive up the prices of used games. That also means it's going to drive up the prices of non-used games. If retailers dont have to worry about cheaper used games, they have very little incentive to mark down the prices. Limiting trade-ins to select retailers IS a monopoly, maybe not in the strictest sense, but it's definitely anti-consumer and will limit our options. I maybe able to trade in games but will definitely not get the value I am used to getting now. The cost is always passed down to the the consumer. Ebay, half.com, mom & pop shops they are all going to be losing business. Which means people who relied on those avenues wont have the cash to fund new game purchases.

BAD for the industry.

I dont even know why the f*ck I am wasting my time with you. You have your head so far up MS's ass, you are basically their mouthpiece. I just hate seeing someone spread ignorance and false info on this board I love so much, but b/w your constant defense and PR for MS and the ridiculous justification of their cloud claims, you have turned this forum into a f*cking cesspool of false information.

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]Uhm, ok in this thread I posted a link to a source. So far there has been no comment on that. If you have a link which says that you can't, please show it. Otherwise stop assuming! There's been enough confusion about this already.

And it's not a monopoly. There will be more than one retailer competing for your used games. 

Black_Knight_00

Exactly. That is stupid. Especially if you can get it at a cheaper price, just like you normally do at GameStop. Fact is, they have not clarified that yet. So either post a LINK or stop muddying the water! I'm not going to assume anything. It's been muddied enough.

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

 

Good point. Its a shitty situation all around.

F*ck Microsoft. This is only going to hurt the industry.

S0lidSnake

No this is definitely going to help the industry.

Nope. It's not. Like Blackknight stated, this is going to drive up the prices of used games. That also means it's going to drive up the prices of non-used games. If retailers dont have to worry about cheaper used games, they have very little incentive to mark down the prices. Limiting trade-ins to select retailers IS a monopoly, maybe not in the strictest sense, but it's definitely anti-consumer and will limit our options. I maybe able to trade in games but will definitely not get the value I am used to getting now. The cost is always passed down to the the consumer. Ebay, half.com, mom & pop shops they are all going to be losing business. Which means people who relied on those avenues wont have the cash to fund new game purchases.

BAD for the industry.

I dont even know why the f*ck I am wasting my time with you. You have your head so far up MS's ass, you are basically their mouthpiece. I just hate seeing someone spread ignorance and false info on this board I love so much, but b/w your constant defense and PR for MS and the ridiculous justification of their cloud claims, you have turned this forum into a f*cking cesspool of false information.

I'm not defending shit. For the last time. I am against it. 

But don't tell me the industry getting the money rather than GameStop won't help the games industry. Yes it will! Just not the retail side.

And you are the one to talk about spreading ignorance and false shit. You created half this **** confusion when you rushed and posted crap, that's unconfirmed from horrible sources to try to get a kick out of it! All I'm doing is trying to clarify things.

I'm just trying to clean up part of their and your damn mess.

Exactly. That is stupid. Especially if you can get it at a cheaper price, just like you normally do at GameStop. Fact is, they have not clarified that yet. So either post a LINK or stop muddying the water! I'm not going to assume anything. It's been muddied enough.alexwatchtower

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]Exactly. That is stupid. Especially if you can get it at a cheaper price, just like you normally do at GameStop. Fact is, they have not clarified that yet. So either post a LINK or stop muddying the water! I'm not going to assume anything. It's been muddied enough.Black_Knight_00

Because there is another way for it to go?

But don't tell me the industry getting the money rather than GameStop won't help the games industry. Yes it will! Just not the retail side.alexwatchtower

Because there is another way for it to go?

alexwatchtower

Be more specific, you can't hide behind simple denial.

[QUOTE="NexApex"]

So NO MATTER WHAT - If we purchase it from craiglist or ebay - you STILL have to take it to a retailers (GameStop, Best Buy, Fry's, etc) to have them place the "KEY"?? or is that even an option!?

I feel like the only way to sale a game now is strickly through a retailer who will give you pennies for the game you paid $60 for. Wonder how this will effect a games longitivity or rare value for collector's in the future when this gen well over... you wont be able to ACTIVATE IT!

alexwatchtower

First of all peronal, and craiglist and ebay sales have not been confirmed. Doesn't mean you can't they just said that's what they have figured out so far.

But no, assuming that is possible, you would likely be able to activate it yourself. I have no clue for what price though. Perhaps there will be a fee when they allow direct person to person sales? Might be a flat fee, so that's something gamers might get adjusted to quickly. In other words if you know there's going to be a 10% fee to active the account, say $5, that would just roll back to how much you would be able to pay me for the used game.

If I wanna sell a game, and I'm selling it for $30, you know it will cost you $35. They probably -hopefully - will do something like this.

Aww, forgot about that. There will probably be a flat fee online. Wonder how GameStop will feel about that though... the reactivation fee would have to be high if Microsoft plans on having retailers; such as, GameStop to invest in a "key replacer" for gamers to make some money off trade-ins or else nobody (intelligent enough) won't sell to them.

Interesting stuff.

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]But don't tell me the industry getting the money rather than GameStop won't help the games industry. Yes it will! Just not the retail side.Black_Knight_00

Because there is another way for it to go?

alexwatchtower

Be more specific, you can't hide behind simple denial.

I've already explained it. Other people like the post above read it or thought about it themselves. You seem to be so sure, that's why I ask, post a damn link.

I've already explained it. Other people like the post above read it or thought about it themselves. You seem to be so sure, that's why I ask, post a damn link.alexwatchtower

you would likely be able to activate it yourself. I have no clue for what price though. Perhaps there willbe a fee when they allow direct person to person sales? Might be a flat fee, so that's something gamers might get adjusted to quickly. In other words if you know there's going to be a 10% fee to active the account, say $5, that would just roll back to how much you would be able to pay me for the used game.

If I wanna sell a game, and I'm selling it for $30, you know it will cost you $35. They probably -hopefully - will do something like this.alexwatchtower

...except your solution makes no sense for 2 reasons:

1) What's the point of microsoft blocking used games sales only to earn $5 on every peer-to-peer sale, which is a fraction of what they'd earn if the buyer was forced to buy new? Moreover:

2) Why would microsoft declare they will enable selected retailers to reset licenses if the same can be done by any user at any time?

Do you see the fallacy in your reasoning?

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]I've already explained it. Other people like the post above read it or thought about it themselves. You seem to be so sure, that's why I ask, post a damn link.Black_Knight_00

you would likely be able to activate it yourself. I have no clue for what price though. Perhaps there willbe a fee when they allow direct person to person sales? Might be a flat fee, so that's something gamers might get adjusted to quickly. In other words if you know there's going to be a 10% fee to active the account, say $5, that would just roll back to how much you would be able to pay me for the used game.

If I wanna sell a game, and I'm selling it for $30, you know it will cost you $35. They probably -hopefully - will do something like this.alexwatchtower

...except your solution makes no sense for 2 reasons:

1) What's the point of microsoft blocking used games sales only to earn $5 on every peer-to-peer sale, which is a fraction of what they'd earn if the buyer was forced to buy new? Moreover:

2) Why would microsoft declare they will enable selected retailers to reset licenses if the same can be done by any user at any time?

Do you see the fallacy in your reasoning?

1. They're not blocking used game sales. They're taking a cut.

2. Because when you trade a game in, it needs to be wiped from your account. You got paid for it.  When you personally sell a game to someone else, they are the ones that need to pay to activate it. It will be at that time, that it will be wiped from your account and transfered to them. But gain, you are asking me to talk about hypothetical situations. I have no freaking idea. The fact is, neither do you. Can it be done though? YES! Will they? I don't know.

1. They're not blocking used game sales. They're taking a cut.

2. Because when you trade a game in, it needs to be wiped from your account. You got paid for it.  When you personally sell a game to someone else, they are the ones that need to pay to activate it. It will be at that time, that it will be wiped from your account and transfered to them. But gain, you are asking me to talk about hypothetical situations. I have no freaking idea. The fact is, neither do you. Can it be done though? YES! Will they? I don't know.

alexwatchtower

1. They're not blocking used game sales. They're taking a cut. 2. Because when you trade a game in, it needs to be wiped from your account. You got paid for it. When you personally sell a game to someone else, they are the ones that need to pay to activate it. It will be at that time, that it will be wiped from your account and transfered to them.alexwatchtower

That's called blocking used games. The fact that they'll allow a few retailers to circumvent it doesn't mean used games aren't blocked.