To all who are comparing raw power of the PS3 and the 360, read here; very interesting and UNBIASED (no MS wording at all, rather folks that deal with these numbers and hardware). This link is a long read (about nine web pages, but worth it if you really want to know what the gist was in June of 2005, they basically call it a wash, though commenting a "wait and see" when the devices come out: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2453 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This link is a technical message board, comparing the systems geaphics processors and a bit on the CPUs. The numbers are real, and blow away the PS3. One fact is, the PS3 doesn't use a unified shader architecture and the 360 does (oddly, the PS2 had it). Go to this link if you want to read what the posts were regarding these numbers below, they point out some galring facts regarding the PS3's lack thereof, and there numbers are based on what the PS3's current hardware is now. Article below from: http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=19237 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Let's look at the maximum theoretical numbers for the Xbox 360 and PS3 GPUs. Triangle Setup Xbox 360 - 500 Million Triangles/sec PS3 - 250 Million Triangles/sec Vertex Shader Processing Xbox 360 - 6.0 Billion Vertices/sec (using all 48 Unified Pipelines) Xbox 360 - 2.0 Billion Vertices/sec (using only 16 of the 48 Unified Pipelines) Xbox 360 - 1.5 Billion Vertices/sec (using only 12 of the 48 Unified Pipelines) Xbox 360 - 1.0 Billion Vertices/sec (using only 8 of the 48 Unified Pipelines) PS3 - 1.0 Billion Vertices/sec Filtered Texture Fetch Xbox 360 - 8.0 Billion Texels/sec PS3 - 12.0 Billion Texels/sec Vertex Texture Fetch Xbox 360 - 8.0 Billion Texels/sec PS3 - 4.0 Billion Texels/sec Pixel Shader Processing with 16 Filtered Texels Per Cycle (Pixel ALU x Clock) Xbox 360 - 24.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using all 48 Unified Pipelines) Xbox 360 - 20.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 40 of the 48 Unified Pipelines) Xbox 360 - 18.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 36 of the 48 Unified Pipelines) Xbox 360 - 16.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 32 of the 48 Unified Pipelines) PS3 - 16.0 Billion Pixels/sec Pixel Shader Processing without Textures (Pixel ALU x Clock) Xbox 360 - 24.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using all 48 Unified Pipelines) Xbox 360 - 20.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 40 of the 48 Unified Pipelines) Xbox 360 - 18.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 36 of the 48 Unified Pipelines) Xbox 360 - 16.0 Billion Pixels/sec (using 32 of the 48 Unified Pipelines) PS3 - 24.0 Billion Pixels/sec Multisampled Fill Rate Xbox 360 - 16.0 Billion Samples/sec (8 ROPS x 4 Samples x 500MHz) PS3 - 8.0 Billion Samples/sec (8 ROPS x 2 Samples x 500MHz) Pixel Fill Rate with 4x Multisampled Anti-Aliasing Xbox 360 - 4.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 4 Samples x 500MHz / 4) PS3 - 2.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 2 Samples x 500MHz / 4) Pixel Fill Rate without Anti-Aliasing Xbox 360 - 4.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 500MHz) PS3 - 4.0 Billion Pixels/sec (8 ROPS x 500MHz) Frame Buffer Bandwidth Xbox 360 - 256.0 GB/sec (dedicated for frame buffer rendering) PS3 - 20.8 GB/sec (shared with other graphics data: textures and vertices) PS3 - 10.8 GB/sec (with 10.0 GB/sec subtracted for textures and vertices) PS3 - 8.4 GB/sec (with 12.4 GB/sec subtracted for textures and vertices) Texture/Vertex Memory Bandwidth Xbox 360 - 22.4 GB/sec (shared with CPU) Xbox 360 - 14.4 GB/sec (with 8.0 GB/sec subtracted for CPU) Xbox 360 - 12.4 GB/sec (with 10.0 GB/sec subtracted for CPU) PS3 - 20.8 GB/sec (shared with frame buffer) PS3 - 10.8 GB/sec (with 10.0 GB/sec subtracted for frame buffer) PS3 - 8.4 GB/sec (with 12.4 GB/sec subtracted for frame buffer) Shader Model Xbox 360 - Shader Model 3.0+ / Unified Shader Architecture PS3 - Shader Model 3.0 / Discrete Shader Architecture Xbox 360 has the advantage in most cases. Some PS3 GPU (RSX) specs are still not confirmed. It's assumed to have 24 pixel pipelines, 8 vertex pipelines, 8 ROPS (raster), and 550MHz clock speed. But any of those could change, especially the clock speed. Are there any other GPU spec categories worth adding? UPDATE: RSX figures were updated to represent GeForce 7 based architecture with 24 pixel pipelines, 8 vertex pipelines, 8 ROPS, 500MHz core, and 650MHz memory. In other words, it dropped from 550MHz/700MHz to 500MHz/650MHz. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To grantgamer: Paying to play on xbox Live doesn't simply (and only) comprise of two or three games, but EVERY game that is Xbox Live ready. I have 10 games so far, and they all play on live whether true coop (ala Perrfect Dark Zero) or the various multiplayer venues. Silver at least allows downloading for free as well as chat and messaging, you cant play game without Gold, and that is only $50/year. You still have the same format of game servers being offered from the game makers for the PS3 as its in PS23, and I saw it was rather crappy and unreliable. To twolves1105: It does come with component cable not composite . It has 1 x Stereo AV cable (Stereo AV, Component, D-terminal, multi-terminal) , but the HDMI cable is a separate cost, and they are not cheap. If you have an HDTV with HDMI, count on another $100 for an HDMI connector to what would be $1000 for a premium system, 6-8 game and a few extra components (e.g. controllers, etc). Keep in mind also (all), if you buy the $499 console you don't get the memory slot (Flash memory), no Wi-Fi and only a 20gig HDD. If you want to even simply upgrade the HDD to 60gig, you have to buy the $599 console. At least with the 360, it has a removable HDD, so one could even take it to a friends place and use it. So if MS decides to make a 60 gig drive for the 360, I doubt it would cost $599 for that add-on.

To soniqstylz: I don't know what screens you saw of oblivion for the PS3, but here (at Gamespot) they look the same as what I played on the 360. If it is really more polished and noticably better to you, than maybe because is is a differently written, and the content is changed. Also, The Elder Scrolls IV: Knights of the Nine (as it is called in this latest version), is also being released for the 360 on Nov 17, the same as the PS3 version. Funny though, you can see a few screens for the PS3 version, but not for the 360 version here at Gamespot.

To BIGBOPPER789: The demos ARE NOT FREE, wait and see, and the online service will (still) be nothing comparable to Xbox live, the reason why I have Xbox, get it right and read facts. The screen shots are not actual gameplay, but I will give you the benefit of not knowing how to tell. Look at the shots, and if you don't see graphs on the image; e.g. life meters, ammo meters, etc as if your seeing actual gameplay, then you're seeing pre-rendeeder shots pawned off as how the game may seem to be. Look at Devil May Cry 4 shots with and without the meters, and you'll see a noticable difference (as just one example). To kiaano: The load times for oblivion (in my experience take some time, but only seconds less than that of my PC version. I have had no framerate problems, but have heard others have it lock up. You'll have to see how it plays on the PS3 when you get it (if you get it). Keep in mind, though the PS3's proccessor is only a bit more powerful than the 360's, the video memory in the 360 is way better than the PS3's (look up the stats). Heck, the PS3 video RAM cannot even do shading as it was purposefully omitted, though it did in the PS2 (go figure this!), not so in the 360. Want to see how much more powerful in video memory the 360 is compared to the PS3, read here: http://tech2.blogsome.com/2006/09/24/microsofts-xbox-360-vs-sonys-playstation-3/

To "dolljack" (or anyone else under this impression): the PS3 is giving free online gaming as it did with the PS2, but Sony won't be offering their servers to host all of those games as Microsoft does for a yearly subscription. It will be up to the game makers to provide the servers, so it is riding the same boat. From what I saw, most of those servers provided by the game makers left anything to desire from what I saw on the PS2. Also, keep in mind Xbox Live "silver" is free to all who have a 360, one simply cannot play games online with others, but everything else is available. So in this sense it is very comparable to what Sony is offering from what I have read about it. Also, downloadable content will not be free as in Xbox Live (even "Silver"), on the PS3, demos will cost $1 (USD) to experience upcoming games; how lame. If the online system is only doubly better than was on the PS2, it still couldn't handle how good Xbox Live is. $50 a year for Xbox Live is well worth it when "ANY" game can be played in any mode online with others on Live and downloabable content is included. I am not in any sense of the term a "fanboy", I think it is what one prefers, and Xbox sold me because of when I first experienced Live at a friend's place. Though the (original) Xbox and the PS2 were fairly similar in quality game play, I was leaning towards a PS2 because of the incredible amount of games available; I was sold on the former because of Live. That is why I got the 360 and it rocks with better Xbox live than was on the original Xbox. I will say that I am anxious to see how well the graphics and the gameplay will be on the PS3. So far it looks pretty good, but most of the images online (especially here) are not actual gameplay images, so it remains to be seen. A friend is getting a PS3 so I will have ample opportunity to experience it, and I am sure the system will rock (the PS2 was impressive). Again, Xbox Live sold me to Xbox, and if PS3's online service is from what I read, it cannot hold a candle to it , IMHO, would not be worth spending nearly (to just get started) $1000 for a premium console and a decent start of a gaming library (like 8 games). This doesn't include buying additional peripherals for the PS3 (controllers, etc). The games available at launch is not all impressive and but looks better than what the 360 had at its launch.