Straight as an arrow ------->

[QUOTE="Yruinitwithnmes"]

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="comp_atkins"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="comp_atkins"]

ok regardless of the gramitically correctness of the term "mind".. the point i'm making is that its brain making decisions based upon the n number of inputs coming into it at the time a person decides to bust a cap in someones skull.

comp_atkins

But he is not being 'made' to make that decision.;)

sure he is. maybe not in the way you imagine; a guy being forced by his own brain to kill a person while he does his best to resist it. but in the sesne that his brain takes into account the situation at hand, evaluates that the action to take is to shoot the other person, and then gets on with it.. all the while the man feels that he is in control of his actions and had the "free will" to make that decision or not.

Then you are saying that there is no such thing as free will?

if god set all matter and energy in motion, fully knowing all the laws that govern them, and being able to predict all future outcomes of that matter and energy interacting with one another, then no.

think of it as row of dominoes perfectly set up the way you want to knock a glass of water off the table at the end. you set up the dominoes, you set up the glass, you know how the dominoes will act once you start the first one. if the glass gets knocked over at the end, its because you set it up that way. the domino that knocked over the glass cant be blamed. if you didn't want the glass knocked over, you should have set up the dominoes a different way.

So you're saying that if we want to do something at any given time then it doesn't matter what we want because everything is predetermined then? Well how's this, I'll bet that if you had to go to the bathroom for whatever reason, or if you just needed to stretch your legs because you had a cramp, you'd get up and do so. Correct? And if you want to be ignorant and say no, then it's irrelevant because even if you chose to sit there in your own waste, it would still be a conscious decision and thus an exercise of your own freewill.

god can make those bets because he supposedly created everything. you however cannot. to you, your decisions feel like free will. but to a creator they're not.

And the logic behind this is?...

[QUOTE="Yruinitwithnmes"]

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Zagrius"]

That's actually a nice explanation, unlike the former one you brought up. Perhaps if you showed the good answers first people would stop asking the question.

Zagrius

Well, I just have a hard time putting it in my own words.

Well Zagirus, perhaps if you stopped making asinine comments, then such explanations and wastes of time that could be better spent improving your own knowledge before trying to assault someone elses wouldn't even be necessary. Hmmm?...

Maybe if you weren't a jerk, you wouldn't be so annoying. Hmmm?...

And maybe if you hadn't been doing the exact same thing then I wouldn't have ever said anything and you wouldn't look like an idiotic hypocrite right now. Hmmm....

[QUOTE="Zagrius"]

That's actually a nice explanation, unlike the former one you brought up. Perhaps if you showed the good answers first people would stop asking the question.

Silver_Dragon17

Well, I just have a hard time putting it in my own words.

Well Zagirus, perhaps if you stopped making asinine comments, then such explanations and wastes of time that could be better spent improving your own knowledge before trying to assault someone elses wouldn't even be necessary. Hmmm?...

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="comp_atkins"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="comp_atkins"]

ok regardless of the gramitically correctness of the term "mind".. the point i'm making is that its brain making decisions based upon the n number of inputs coming into it at the time a person decides to bust a cap in someones skull.

comp_atkins

But he is not being 'made' to make that decision.;)

sure he is. maybe not in the way you imagine; a guy being forced by his own brain to kill a person while he does his best to resist it. but in the sesne that his brain takes into account the situation at hand, evaluates that the action to take is to shoot the other person, and then gets on with it.. all the while the man feels that he is in control of his actions and had the "free will" to make that decision or not.

Then you are saying that there is no such thing as free will?

if god set all matter and energy in motion, fully knowing all the laws that govern them, and being able to predict all future outcomes of that matter and energy interacting with one another, then no.

think of it as row of dominoes perfectly set up the way you want to knock a glass of water off the table at the end. you set up the dominoes, you set up the glass, you know how the dominoes will act once you start the first one. if the glass gets knocked over at the end, its because you set it up that way. the domino that knocked over the glass cant be blamed. if you didn't want the glass knocked over, you should have set up the dominoes a different way.

So you're saying that if we want to do something at any given time then it doesn't matter what we want because everything is predetermined then? Well how's this, I'll bet that if you had to go to the bathroom for whatever reason, or if you just needed to stretch your legs because you had a cramp, you'd get up and do so. Correct? And if you want to be ignorant and say no, then it's irrelevant because even if you chose to sit there in your own waste, it would still be a conscious decision and thus an exercise of your own freewill.

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="comp_atkins"]

ok regardless of the gramitically correctness of the term "mind".. the point i'm making is that its brain making decisions based upon the n number of inputs coming into it at the time a person decides to bust a cap in someones skull.

comp_atkins

But he is not being 'made' to make that decision.;)

sure he is. maybe not in the way you imagine; a guy being forced by his own brain to kill a person while he does his best to resist it. but in the sesne that his brain takes into account the situation at hand, evaluates that the action to take is to shoot the other person, and then gets on with it.. all the while the man feels that he is in control of his actions and had the "free will" to make that decision or not.

So what you're saying then is that human being have no free will of their own and it is actually your brain that forces you to do thing whether you want to or not. Correct? Well ladies and gentlemen, I believe the stupidity just emmanates from this statement so no further questioning is even necessary.

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"]

ok regardless of the gramitically correctness of the term "mind".. the point i'm making is that its brain making decisions based upon the n number of inputs coming into it at the time a person decides to bust a cap in someones skull.

Silver_Dragon17

But he is not being 'made' to make that decision.;)

Correct. Each and every person makes decisions for themselves. And I'll go ahead and put this out as well for the people that are going to inevitably make the argument that depending on the circumstances, you can be made to do something, even if someone held a gun to your head, you still can't actually be made to do anything. It simply isn't possible.

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="luke1889"]

Well, let me ask you this: since when has using a reversed burden of proof and circular logic been a good idea?

That is not how an objective brain is designed to function.

luke1889

I'm not using a reversed burden of proof (I haven't once asked for proof that God does not exist) nor am I using circular logic.:|

I agree.

I'm sorry, but you are employing both of those logical fallacies in the entirety of your beliefs.

The reversed burden of proof you use is "if you can't disprove it, it must be true." Whenever someone says that God cannot be proved, your immediate fall-back excuse is "yeah, well you can't disprove him either." How on Earthdoes that mindset even begin to make sense to you? It's ridiculous at the very best. All deities abide by this asinine rule, so the fact that you're more than happy to rule out every one other than the one you believe in (and most likely the one predominant in your society :roll: ) just baffles me.

Also, the circular logic you use is "God created the Bible and the Bible says God is real." And I've said it time and time again, being your own source of credibility is no credibility at all. How is that any different from you and I having the following conversation:

Me: I am the most talented football player in the world.
You: Oh yeah, says who?
Me: Me

Not very credible is it? :roll:

You are not being rational or logical by the very definition of the words. Unless you have some alternate definition for those too...

Actually since you asked, one definition for the word "rational" is "endowed with the faculty of reason" (Look it up next time genius) and on these grounds, anyone human being or being capable of higher thought processes is a rational being. Oh, and just so we're perfectly clear, that includes Silver Dragon if you need it broken down to even simpler terms. Furthermore, the whole Bible not being a credible source thing is also complete b$ simply for the fact that since I'm well aware that there isn't a false word printed in there, if you were to look through historical records, you could find that each of the incidents that were written to have occured actually happened. So then, why would it be full of true stories based on the false pretense that the one who did all those things never existed? Is there anything else you'd like me to break down for you that you seem to be having a hard time of understanding?...