Have to say, there's been some interesting responses since the last time I checked in.
[QUOTE="XDeSuEhTX"]
Actually, I mixed up your message with capaho's. Earlier he said:
[QUOTE=" "] To many of us who are concerned about these problems the proliferation of sexist images and the real-world victimization of women are not unrelated. Lucky_Krystal
My apologies, honest mistake.
But that wasn't really an attempt at derailment. There are many different aspects of sexism that will come up during a discussion; it is not as black and white a subject as you make it out to be.
Also, many of the people who campaign against images that objectify women tend to think that it has a detrimental effect on not just women, but men as well. They seem to think that these images would cause men to see all women as objects and treat them as such. And I'm saying that using media as a scapegoat for the harmful actions of people sounds suspiciously like the argument that "violent video games breed murderers" or "porn breeds rapists and pedophiles." They also think that getting rid of these images will magically make everything better. Tell me, if games like Cyberpunk 2077 were to be changed to never objectify women, do you think that would solve all the problems of the game industry?
Other media like movies, books, television, music, and anime all objectify women as well. But the difference is that they have far more diversity behind the scenes than gaming does (overall anyway). Therefore, they have a slew of genres and media that appeal to a wider variety of people. What gaming could really use is diversity behind the scenes. Not just more women either. More people of both genders and all races who are willing to do something more than military shooter #158. Better writers to create better characters. And perhaps people who know how to spend money wisely, so companies can take risks and not spend millions on some generic game that needs to sell 5 million copies to break even.
And I'm going to say this again: the way you approach the subject does not help. Immediately twisting things out of context and throwing around hyperbolic and vicious words to describe the game and its creators as "sexist," "porn," and say "every female protagonist is objectified" is not a good way to approach the subject. When you come out swinging and name calling, people will see through your flimsy argument right away. They won't take you or the issue seriously.
Well I really didn't come to debate philosophy over what media does or doesn't do, but I can tell it's an avenue you keep driving up and down waiting for some sort of collision. Honestly, it's hard to say what effect media has on the way people think, but to suggest it's none at all is foolish. There's a line somewhere between using media a scapegoat and dismissing it from all responsibility. If it's not "black and white" as you say, then for example black would be saying this inspires men to see all women as objects, treat them poorly, etc, and white would be saying it never plays are role in that. Would it make things better you ask? It's possible, maybe even probable. We've not made it there. One thing that seems even more likely is that less "good ole boys club" mentality in the game industy would equal more women interested to both game design and playing games.
Getting rid of hypersexualized protagonists in question would not change the fact that there are still a disproportionate number of men and women in the gaming industry. It won't change the fact that some women in the industry are made to feel they don't belong there, therefore discouraging them from gaining higher positions or even new blood from entering the industry. It won't change the fact that right now, some publishers are unwilling to allow developers to even have a female protagonist because they think the game won't sell. It won't change the fact that the "girls have cooties" mentality is somehow held by someone who has power over developers (read). Or how some shithole magazine can make a "40 hottest women in tech list" with the tagline, "It's no wonder the boys welcomed them with open arms" HEAVILY implying that they are only where they are for their looks. As I keep telling you, games are a reflection of what's happening behind the scenes.
Seriously? I hate to be rude, but that is some serious ass-backward mentality. I genuinely believe in just the opposite. The making of games that are more female friendly and sensitivie to sexist and patriachal tendency, could indeed inspire significant change within the entire field. You have a serious defeatist attitude about the whole thing, seem to think staying quiet and nice as possible is your only prayer that the wind may blow west one day and all things will conspire for the better out of the clear blue without a single finger lifted or a feeling hurt.
It's funny how you contine to shoot down so many people, myself included telling us that we're out of line to say what we say, yet again it flys in the face of what your supposed idols of sexism citique (the ones you referenced pages back) had to say about accepting other's presentation on the matter. The constant need to keep chanting "you're not helping, you're not helping!", is in fact not helping. It's just oppressive, and discouraging all around. You've acted as though you've had some better examples to follow though they are not fundamentally any different aside from being less impactful and/or presented where there is less/no diversity of opinion in the first place. Those women faced backlash too.
You say people will not "take me seriously", yet there've been plenty of people to do so, plenty of disagreeing going on, but really very few who have not taken this seriously.
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