[QUOTE="eo12601"][QUOTE="Talk-Hard"][QUOTE="eo12601"][QUOTE="Talk-Hard"]

[QUOTE="eo12601"]Yes they were gay A lot of the anciets (Greeks, Romans) were gay BTW, gay is defined as having sexual intercourse/being attracted to one of the same sex. There you go.Talk-Hard

Which part? That they were gay That is not an opinion, it is fact. It was their way of life. They saw nothing wrong with it. If you don't believe me, then go take a history class.

I didnt came here to fight with children about my countrys history. first of all let me define you what is a FACT and what is not. Fact is a book that compared with the original manuscript is 100% accurate, and the manuscript is actually a confession of an ancien historian of philosopher who actually lived at that time. I can post opinions who are based on FACTS. I can even post you the part of the manuscript in ancient greek (if you are able to read it) or if you are lucky you could find at your language ok? non fact things are everything else (for me)

If you say that greeks were gay you must give me your FACTS or whatever you say, stays an opinion (it works bothways). You offend me by telling me that if i dont pelieve you, i should take a history class. Do you think it whould be wise of me to take your opinion into serious consideration without anything solid?

Still, you didn't answered my question.You say that greeks are gay Ok. From where?

... It is the general consensus among all experts on the ancient world that the greek and roman civilizations were in fact, openly gay It is for these professionals in the field to examine the historical evidence and to come to conclusions based on it. I am merely reiterating what they have, without any real exceptions, found.

So, in short, your ancestors were gay/bi sexual. Nothing to be ashamed about. You might not like it but hey, that's how it was. My ancestors tended to marry their cousins. Boo hoo. Cry me a river. History is history. You may not like the truth, but that isn't going to change it.

Dont misunderstand me. Its not a matter of what i like and what i dont. I know facts far more disturbing about Athenians (especially Spartans) that i whould gladly trade about the homosexual fact. The point is that i have red many manuscripts, and i never found anything about homosexuality. If that is true pelieve me, i will gladly accept it. It will never change the fact that the Greeks have invented Dimocracy witch is (IMO) the best regime that ever existed, the first who gave partial freedom and rights to slaves and even the oportunity for a slave to become citizen and more. But then again i have told you that te only thing i want is the truth. modern foreign philosophers do not concern me. they have the bad habit to misread things. (IMO) only people who speak (and read) Greek as mother language and leaned to speak (and read) ancient greek can fully understand the meaning of the words. The truth has been spoken into the manuscripts of the people who wrote history those days. I have looked forward to find an answer to homosexuality between Greeks but havent found it yet. If i will i will accept it. Reading manuscripts is never an easy job. They are sooooo many, and the translations are few and some are not very accurate. You need a good knowledge of ancient greek witch i admit i dont have (the proffesionals you say, are friends of mine). Some proffesionals say its true, others deny it for reason. Can you spot the truth?. .... (but i can assure you this.Even if the greeks were homosexuals, homosexuality wasnt institutional, at least not in athens) For example i could tell you about Plato who always condamned homosexuality but Plato is a philosopher, and just one man. there are many more manuscripts to read before taking a desicion.

As for the "boylovers" athenians, it happens that i know some of the laws of Ancient athens. There are laws against pederasty in ancient Athens. Laws of death penalty. Many laws about pederasty i could add. That gives us the advantage of knowing that there were trully pederasts in Athens and lots of them (and thats why the laws were created) but like today, they were against the law. I couldnt possibly know about the statistics then and now of course and i only talk about athens. Sparta or Pella (capital of Macedonia) is a much diffrent story.

the whole point (that we have lost during this friendly argument) a movie will never going to be a fact factor. I see many people here who take stupid elements from movies into consideration, and later they call them facts. I find that horrible. this is how the past die.

(i am aware of my bad english)

[QUOTE="Talk-Hard"][QUOTE="eo12601"][QUOTE="Talk-Hard"]

[QUOTE="eo12601"]Yes they were gay A lot of the anciets (Greeks, Romans) were gay BTW, gay is defined as having sexual intercourse/being attracted to one of the same sex. There you go.eo12601

Which part? That they were gay That is not an opinion, it is fact. It was their way of life. They saw nothing wrong with it. If you don't believe me, then go take a history class.

I didnt came here to fight with children about my countrys history. first of all let me define you what is a FACT and what is not. Fact is a book that compared with the original manuscript is 100% accurate, and the manuscript is actually a confession of an ancien historian of philosopher who actually lived at that time. I can post opinions who are based on FACTS. I can even post you the part of the manuscript in ancient greek (if you are able to read it) or if you are lucky you could find at your language ok? non fact things are everything else (for me)

If you say that greeks were gay you must give me your FACTS or whatever you say, stays an opinion (it works bothways). You offend me by telling me that if i dont pelieve you, i should take a history class. Do you think it whould be wise of me to take your opinion into serious consideration without anything solid?

Still, you didn't answered my question.You say that greeks are gay Ok. From where?

... It is the general consensus among all experts on the ancient world that the greek and roman civilizations were in fact, openly gay It is for these professionals in the field to examine the historical evidence and to come to conclusions based on it. I am merely reiterating what they have, without any real exceptions, found.

So, in short, your ancestors were gay/bi sexual. Nothing to be ashamed about. You might not like it but hey, that's how it was. My ancestors tended to marry their cousins. Boo hoo. Cry me a river. History is history. You may not like the truth, but that isn't going to change it.

Dont misunderstand me. Its not a matter of what i like and what i dont. I know facts far more disturbing about Athenians (especially Spartans) that i whould gladly trade about the homosexual fact. The point is that i have red many manuscripts, and i never found anything about homosexuality. If that is true pelieve me, i will gladly accept it. It will never change the fact that the Greeks have invented Dimocracy witch is (IMO) the best regime that ever existed, the first who gave partial freedom and rights to slaves and even the oportunity for a slave to become citizen and more. But then again i have told you that te only thing i want is the truth. modern philosophers do not concern me. The truth has been spoken into the manuscripts of the people who wrote history those days. I have looked forward to find an answer to homosexuality between Greeks but havent found it yet. If i will i will accept it. Reading manuscripts is never an easy job. They are sooooo many, and the translations are few and some are not very accurate. You need a good knowledge of ancient greek witch i admit i dont have (the proffesionals you say, are friends of mine). Some proffesionals say its true, others deny it for reason. Can you spot the truth?. .... (but i can assure you this.Even if the greeks were homosexuals, homosexuality wasnt institutional, at least not in athens) For example i could tell you about Plato who always condamned homosexuality but Plato is a philosopher, and just one man. there are many more manuscripts to read before taking a desicion.

As for the "boylovers" athenians, it happens that i know some of the laws of Ancient athens. There are laws against pederasty in ancient Athens. Laws of death penalty. Many laws about pederasty i could add. That gives us the advantage of knowing that there were trully pederasts in Athens and lots of them (and thats why the laws were created) but like today, they were against the law. I couldnt possibly know about the statistics then and now of course and i only talk about athens. Sparta or Pella (capital of Macedonia) is a much diffrent story.

the whole point (that we have lost during this friendly argument) a movie will never going to be a fact factor. I see many people here who take stupid elements from movies into consideration, and later they call them facts. I find that horrible. this is how the past die.

(i am aware of my bad english)

[QUOTE="Talk-Hard"]

[QUOTE="eo12601"]Yes they were gay A lot of the anciets (Greeks, Romans) were gay BTW, gay is defined as having sexual intercourse/being attracted to one of the same sex. There you go.eo12601

Which part? That they were gay That is not an opinion, it is fact. It was their way of life. They saw nothing wrong with it. If you don't believe me, then go take a history class.

I didnt came here to fight with children about my countrys history. first of all let me define you what is a FACT and what is not. Fact is a book that compared with the original manuscript is 100% accurate, and the manuscript is actually a confession of an ancien historian of philosopher who actually lived at that time. I can post opinions who are based on FACTS. I can even post you the part of the manuscript in ancient greek (if you are able to read it) or if you are lucky you could find at your language ok? non fact things are everything else (for me)

If you say that greeks were gay you must give me your FACTS or whatever you say, stays an opinion (it works bothways). You offend me by telling me that if i dont pelieve you, i should take a history class. Do you think it whould be wise of me to take your opinion into serious consideration without anything solid?

Still, you didn't answered my question.You say that greeks are gay Ok. From where?

Yes they were gay A lot of the anciets (Greeks, Romans) were gay BTW, gay is defined as having sexual intercourse/being attracted to one of the same sex. There you go.eo12601

do you have any proof to support your opinion or its just your opinion?

Oblivion, definately. Better fighting style

hobojoe82

But the moves of the character of witcher are based on true medieval sword techniques while the character of oblivion is using the "cutting wood from the forest" moves.

Anyway, i havent played the witcher game yet. When i'll play it i will say my opinion.

What can i say. I am against piracy too. Even though this thread is against PC piracy i must say that this matter concerns the PC gaming industry as much as the console. When i was younger, i had a play and all of my games (exept the first) were all copies. When i bought my play 2 i have all of my games original. I also buy original pc games and i must confess there is nothing like a collectors edition game. When you buy it it feels like you've got into the game or something. It makes you stuck into it. I can read the manuals for hours. I really cannot explain. I am forward to buy the witcher game (COLLECTORS EDITION YES)

But tell me this. I also like retro and abandoned games like "the last call" game, and since i dont have a credit card and the game is lost in space how the hell am i gonna buy it? Am i unforgiven if i'll find it and download it for free?