I consider myself a Christian but I haven't reached the level of intimacy with Jesus that others have, although I hope I will one day. I have heard of many stories though, where people have miraculous things have happened and there is no other explanation other than it came from the Hand of God. For example, one of my good friends who is much more advanced in the ways of the Lord than me, was on a missions trip in Europe once when he ran out of money to buy his next plane ticket. That night he prayed very hard and the next morning he went to the airport and there was already a ticket purchased and waiting for him. It was just him and his friend on the missions trip, and he had told no one else about his monetary problems. Although anyone would obviously be very skeptical of this story, I fully trust this person and believe that he would have no reason to lie to me like that.

I also think that this debate is never going to end, because those who refute Christianity do so because they have never experienced God, and don't put forth the effort to do so and just believe in their own insights and scientific intelligence. If you don't seek Him, you will never know what it is like. I'm on that road myself right now, but I have seen others that are very intelligent and scientifically minded that have been dramatically changed by a relationship with God.

[QUOTE="Gryphon700"][QUOTE="Shad0ki11"][QUOTE="abdelmessih101"][QUOTE="King_Stones"][QUOTE="abdelmessih101"]

I believe in God because I have experienced Him in my life personally and so have my family and religious friends. Shad0ki11

Again, personal accounts count for nothing without valid evidence behind them. Otherwise, just like mindstorm, you're asking people to just accept that that's just the way it is, and to not question it. Again, no thanks.

I question my beliefs every week at church in my Youth Group meeting and at my Servant's Prep cIass I wouldn't believe in something that doesn't make sense and I question every single one of my church's beliefs until I get an answer. So far, none of my questions have been left unanswered and I doubt there ever will be.

For example, a Pope's prayer cured my dad of paralysis, not a doctor's visit. If you don't believe me, that's perfectly fine because you have no reason to, but then again, I have no reason to lie. abdelmessih101

I don't think you have a reason to lie either, and I don't want you to. But you can not prove that the prayer cured your father. He could have just gone through a spell that wore off on it's own; something unexplainable that was never meant to keep your father permanently paralyzed. Sometimes a disc in the spine can get stuck and cause temporary paralysis in certain parts of the body. It could have become jarred loose by a simple movement, thus restoring mobility. Just a possibility.

I don't know the specifics, but I can tell you that one whole side of his body was paralyzed (I forget whether it was left or right) and he regained full manueverability and range of motion without the help of science or medicine. Where we differ is that I attribute that to God and you attribute it to a random phenomena.

Also, it's completely impossible for me to prove the existence of God to you since that's something you need to do on your own through faith and prayer. On the same token, it's impossible for you to disprove God's existence to me because of my day-to-day experiences and relationship with Him. abdelmessih101

Through faith? Faith in what? Didn't I just explain to you that there is no proof of God? Should I make one up, and then place faith in that? :?

Also, can you explain what your personal relationship with God is like? I'd like to hear it.

This a moot point because regardless of how I describe my relationship or what I feel or what happens when I do pray and read the bible vs when I don't, you'll always attribute it to something other than God. God works in mysterious ways, and if you're looking for me to prove God's existence to you, that's not going to happen - you have to search for Him yourself. Seek and you shall receive, ask and He will answer.

If you still want to argue logic, here's my logical approach: scientific theories about how everything came from nothing, and about how life started arbitrarily with no creator make much less sense to me than God. It's as simple as that. Regardless of what science is able to prove, it all eventually goes back to a point where there was no earth and no life, and out of that nothing appeared this complex and beautiful world and the precious thing called life. abdelmessih101

If you still want to argue logic, I ask you where God came from, and why you think he would even choose to make us people, this planet, this galaxy, this universe.

You're asking me this as if I knew the purpose of the universe and I don't.

God always existed, and I don't know why He made us, but that too is a moot point since we're here regardless of the reason. Maybe He wanted someone to love. But anyway, He gave us life and when we willingly diobeyed Him, instead of punishing us with death (in a biblical sense death = hell), He came down as Jesus to take our punishment for us. The Holy Spirit descended on the authors of the Bible and God wrote a guide book for us to tell us what to do in order to gain eternal life in heaven.

Am I supposed to believe that started with a blob of matter which, in the right conditions, reacted and exploded to form the universe and eventually some of these big blocks of matter started rotating around this huge ball of gas called the sun, and once conditions were perfect, one of these blocks of matter was transformed into the earth we have today. Even if that was true, how did these perfect conditions for the formation of the earth come about - what caused them to become that way? abdelmessih101

I have no idea. Maybe we'll know one day. But it doesn't, and shouldn't mean that one would automatically jump to conclusions, and decide that a creator is behind everything, especially when this creator has never been proven.

I ask you this: Why is it that you involved logic in deciding against the big bang theory, but when the idea of an unproven being was introduced, you threw logic away and decided to subscribe to that idea without any good reason (proof) for it? What happened between the first idea and the second? You only had enough logic for one go-around? :?

This argument is useless because you will continue to argue under the assumption that God doesn't exist while I will continue to argue under the assumption that He does exist.

I'll answer your question with another question. Which honestly makes more sense to you: a greater being who always existed created the universe or the universe created itself from nothingness?

Neither one is fully understandable because of the limitations of the human brain, but one definitely makes more sense than the other in my opinion.

The point I'm trying to make is that even if you were to take a logical and empirical approach to the world around you, there will always be some question or phenomena that science can not and will never be able to answer or explain logically or empirically. abdelmessih101

True, but that doesn't mean it's a God, as I just stated. But then you said this:

As a result of this, the only possible deduction left is the presence of a greater being, a God, that ties everything together, that explains the scientifically inexplicable and answers the scientifically unanswerable. abdelmessih101

That's the problem. You clearly state, "the only possible deduction left", when it is not the only possible deduction left. There could be numerous explanations remaining that you're not aware of. You took to the one that fits your personality best.

What other possible explanations are you aware of? Or do you believe in the Big Bang theory and that life came from nothing?

And on a final note, I don't believe in God only because the lack of one is an absurd idea as I've explained above, but because He does truly exist, and I know this for a fact based on my own experiences with Him as well as what I've learned about the experiences of other with Him.

abdelmessih101

If you knew it for a fact, you would have facts to prove it. Do you? Otherwise it's just another case of wishful thinking taken too far.

The only thing I have left to say is that you will wish that you had listened to me and you will wish that you had opened the door when God knocked, so to speak, when your life on earth ends and you and I and everyone else stand face to face with God and He asks us to give an account of our lives.

That's not to say that I'm trying to scare you into believing in God nor that I myself am scared into believing in God, that just the truth of what's going to happen. I sincerely would love to help others on the road to salvation, but we all need to put in our own effort. Good night and God bless.

So you're in Sunday school, eh?

You're being taught what to believe.

I actually read what he said above, and he doesn't seem to be the type of person that just blindly accepts whatever the church feeds to him. Any person who is questioning his faith everyday at their youth group has obviously gone through much self debate and questioning and is definetely not being taught what to believe.

I just think the fact everything he said is killed by the fact that he still needs to attend a sunday school and recieve a religious education of some kind.

He never said he attended sunday school. That was just the other poster being derogatory. What he attends is called Youth Group and people don't go there to recieve a religious education, they go there to socialize and just generally have a good time with others who are part of the church.