Yeah, in response to your third paragraph, that's why I put in the last two paragraphs. I know it's not just radical feminism that is the problem, it just feels that it is the one that has been destroying so many of the communities I visit recently.
I think one of the problems is that it hides behind mainstream feminism, and doesn't get called out for what it is as a result. After all, who wants to be seen as coming out against equal rights for women?!
I'm not saying that, I was speaking in general. (I'm not a fan of GTA, so I didn't read it.) There's been a lot of crap over the last weeks and months as a result of radical feminism.
If you take, for example, Feminist Frequency (or whatever she calls herself?), and see the way she has influenced the community and discussion, that's more what I mean, although I was more talking about comments in the comments sections than anything else. She's all the worse, actually, because she's quite good at framing her arguments so people don't actually notice what she's saying, and how she is manipulating the facts (and sometimes outright lying).
Downvoting doesn't stop people reading comments, but it does give an accurate flavour of how the community is receiving what is being said, which really helps to assuage the defensive instinct to respond to being called names and worse.
@Ayato_Kamina_1 @Afterthought_bt I've never actually been a GTA fan, but it strikes me that men are portrayed in a pretty negative light as well as women in it, from what I've seen. I think that's kind of inevitable when you are basing a game on... well... criminality!
Like you say, if you're going to point one thing out, you have to point them all out.
It's interesting, but I've seen this happen in lots of communities I lurk in over the last few years, and the causal factor always seems to be the same in every damn one of them:
Radical feminism.
That's radical feminism, by the way, not feminism. You know, the type of feminism that claims that (say) the reason that men commit suicide far more often than women is because society enslaves and hates women(!). The type that claims that only women have problems, and no-one else. The type that makes up issues which don't actually exist.
When words like 'misogyny' and 'sexism' get thrown around every other word, like in that particular community, then people tend to get pissed off. The thing is, most people think of themselves as decent people, so when they get called 'someone who hates or fears women' (or a misogynist) they get a bit miffed, and get drawn into the flame war. Because it's all about self respect, really. If you don't fight back, then maybe other people will believe it. That's the fear, at least.
I experienced it first hand in another community - one which I joined precisely because of their maturity. I got called a misogynist because I had the temerity to point out to someone that a celeb they were (also) calling a misogynist lived in a different culture, where the words he used meant different things. Riled up, and afraid that I would be tarnished by such slurs in that community, I wasted hours of my life, and most of my (intended) sleep time. I found out the next day, that the vast majority, if not everyone else in that community actually felt really sorry for the position I was put in, but bar one or two people, no-one had said anything (probably for fear of getting into it themselves).
The best way to deal with this kind of thing is to self moderate by the users, I think. A really good way to do this would be to bring back the ability to negative vote, and for the comment to disappear when it has enough negative votes. That way the flamebait quickly gets hidden, and people don't end up rising to it.
And no, it obviously isn't just rad feminism that's the problem, any similarly hateful ideology will do - white/black supremacists, homophobic/transphobic people, religious bigots, and yes misogynists and misandrists all do this - it's just curious that I've found so many communities destroyed by rad feminism recently.
Of course, if everyone could just start with the assumption that everyone they talk to isn't a despicable person, that'd work too, but sadly I suspect that will never happen.
How can anyone judge anything about a game before it is effin released?!
For crying out loud...
Also, can we stop this crap about 'objectification' until the people who use it actually understand what it means. Being attracted to, drawing, or otherwise creating the character of, an attractive woman does not mean a woman is being objectified.
Leaving aside the fact that as I am a liberal, I despise the idea of 'suppressing' any idea, and find anyone who wants to do so beneath contempt...
That only makes sense if it's impossible to refer to said idea without use of those words. So, just so long as they can't find other ways of saying the same idea, or make up new words to hold the same meaning, yeah, that makes sense.
Or, in other words, it makes utterly no sense whatsoever.
Also, no sacrifice is forced by forcing people to use other words. Name me one prejudice that has been stopped by limiting the use of certain words that people can use.
All you do by trying to censor words is make those words taboo, and thus give even more power to the people who do use those words.
But, hey, continue referring to Voldemort as You-Know-Who all you want - you're free to do that. Just like I'm free to think that people who do such, don't have the faintest idea as to what language, words, and ideas actually are.
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