Left 4 Dead 2 should have been DLC

Not saying it will suck, but this game should have easily been included as DLC in the original, the game has not even been out for a year, and still has so many untapped potential with DLC, and they go and reveal a sequal to it and force you to pay $60 for it, I am hyped but come on valve get off your money making bandwagon, "it's to soon for a sequel"?

Who here agrees?

agrees.

I will get this game but used and around $30(Online retailer after a few months or whatever sales pop up). No way will Valve get a cent from me unless it is for dlc.

i dont think so i mean i would rather have a whole new sequal game with new characters and new weapons than just have to download the DLC...thats just my opinion though.

I will get this game but used and around $30(Online retailer after a few months or whatever asles pop up). No way will Valve get a cent from me unless it is for dlc.

craigalan23

its only gonna cost me 60 pence mwahahhah you do the math

its only gonna cost me 60 pence mwahahhah you do the math

dawso0n

i dont think so i mean i would rather have a whole new sequal game with new characters and new weapons than just have to download the DLC...thats just my opinion though.

STARXWOLF

I'll give Valve the benefit of the doubt, they aren't the kind of the company that "milks" its franchises. Also, I think I remember reading somewhere today that said the game's AI director is getting a pretty good upgrade (which is hard to believe considering how good the AI was in the first L4D) and if that is true then its probably far to much of an upgrade to apply through DLC.nrt25

I think it will be good and probably worth every penny but really what Valve did was messed up. They made the game seem like it would get dlc out the ***. Yeah PC gamers probably did but what did we get? One free update which was great but no new campaigns? Now that is what i call ****ed up. After that they wont get a penny from me every again hello used copy!

I think it will be good and probably worth every penny but really what Valve did was messed up. They made the game seem like it would get dlc out the ***. Yeah PC gamers probably did but what did we get? One free update which was great but no new campaigns? Now that is what i call ****ed up. After that they wont get a penny from me every again hello used copy!

craigalan23

Hell, if Call Of Duty can come out with a rehash every year then why cant valve to it once with an amazing game like left4dead?

Cant wait for Left4Dead2 personally.

They come out with Madden and MLB baseball games each year, why not for a great series like L4D?

Its great for those who enjoyed the first one imo, and worth every penny if you like the gameplay.

Hell, if Call Of Duty can come out with a rehash every year then why cant valve to it once with an amazing game like left4dead?

Cant wait for Left4Dead2 personally.

kozzy1234

Even if u spent alot for it, you can easly sell it, if u dont really want it!

Even if u spent alot for it, you can easly sell it, if u dont really want it!

Jaidyn1

If there is enough content to warrant a new game then I really have no problem buying it only a year later. Honestly though I can really understand peoples concerns and personally I would have rather seen a Half Life 2: Episode 3 trailer at MS's conference instead of L4D 2. Its time for more Half Life 2 dang it!nrt25

My only hope is Valve decided the last part of the series deserves it's own game with a new engine and a LONG story, instead of just another add-on for HL2. Come on HL3!!

[QUOTE="STARXWOLF"]

i dont think so i mean i would rather have a whole new sequal game with new characters and new weapons than just have to download the DLC...thats just my opinion though.

znator

yes thats exactly what im saying u might think im crazy but...yeah

Not saying it will suck, but this game should have easily been included as DLC in the original, the game has not even been out for a year, and still has so many untapped potential with DLC, and they go and reveal a sequal to it and force you to pay $60 for it, I am hyped but come on valve get off your money making bandwagon, "it's to soon for a sequel"?

Who here agrees?

znator

1. No one is forcing you to buy it. You can wait for a price drop you know.

2. Money making bandwagon? It's called business. All companies want your money.

[QUOTE="znator"]

Not saying it will suck, but this game should have easily been included as DLC in the original, the game has not even been out for a year, and still has so many untapped potential with DLC, and they go and reveal a sequal to it and force you to pay $60 for it, I am hyped but come on valve get off your money making bandwagon, "it's to soon for a sequel"?

Who here agrees?

OfficialBed

1. No one is forcing you to buy it. You can wait for a price drop you know.

2. Money making bandwagon? It's called business. All companies want your money.

I love l4d but it has not even been a whole year yet, not paying $60 for something that could of easily been dlc, I'll still buy but grabbing a used copy when the price goes down

L4D lacked way too much content to be worth full-price in the first place. Seriously, it was almost a joke how little was actually in the game. I know that it had good replay value, but with outdated graphics and gameplay, it seriously could have had so much more. It would have been a cool XboxLive Arcade game or something, but full price is an absolute joke.

I dont think its too soon for a new L4D, but I do think it shows that they aren't necessarily interested in making a fully fleshed out game. Somebody brought up that CoD comes out with a new game every year, but they dont take into consideration that those are actually 2 years in the making as the developers switch back and forth.

It definitely feels like its being rushed out to capitalize. They wont get my money, though. I'd want at least 8-10 full levels for me to even consider it.

I can only agree with the fact that this game is coming out way too soon, in-case no one realized yet but it'll be exactly one year from when L4D was released when L4D2 will be released. Plus I really doubt someone would make a SEQUEL a DLC it just doesn't make sense, and it's not like some crappy "oh hey we got one or two new maps to addon for you guys", it's more like "Hey we're giving you a new cast, five maybe six new campaigns, new weapons. And Melee weapons too." I mean come on guys sure it's going to be a bit soon but the formula to make L4D isn't that hard... The AI director actually does most of the work for them, such as placing down the baddies and weapons, all valve really has to do is spiff the AI directed up a bit and let it control pathways and weather then they just make some maps maybe add new weapons, then viola they've got a new game. So I say we take some time to see how it unfolds and see that this game still has tons of potential to unload so let's help Valve and give them suggestions.

It definitely feels like its being rushed out to capitalize. They wont get my money, though. I'd want at least 8-10 full levels for me to even consider it.

seankane

I'm not sure whether you're confusing the words Campaign with levels but from what I remember (And I'm staring at the match making screen right now on L4D) L4D had way more than 8-10 full levels... It had about 20, some may be a bit smaller than other levels but still you could just stick one and one together and just have what you could consider 10 big levels.

Actually, Left 4 Dead 2 does add new things to the table that DLC wouldn't be able to do. The zombies now react more to where your shooting them, melee weapons, environment changing, and even the map/campaign changes sometimes. Can't forget to add out the smaller improvements which would be new Special infected, Uncommon common, Fire ammunition, Walking Witches, and the new style of cresendo events.

I would of also liked new DLC for Left 4 Dead but it wouldn't be possible to make L4D2 a DLC.

[QUOTE="seankane"]

It definitely feels like its being rushed out to capitalize. They wont get my money, though. I'd want at least 8-10 full levels for me to even consider it.

Serithil

I'm not sure whether you're confusing the words Campaign with levels but from what I remember (And I'm staring at the match making screen right now on L4D) L4D had way more than 8-10 full levels... It had about 20, some may be a bit smaller than other levels but still you could just stick one and one together and just have what you could consider 10 big levels.

Yes, I meant campaigns.

And sorry, but with the outdated engine(meaning subpar quality graphics and gameplay), I think we deserve more content. They must have a pretty good handle on efficient level-building by now and with what you see in the mod community with this engine, its hard to justify spending full price for little more than something that the mod community could probably pump out by itself.

it definately depends on how the game turns out but i think at the moment it seems like L4D should have been given a lot more support before a sequel is released

Actually, Left 4 Dead 2 does add new things to the table that DLC wouldn't be able to do. The zombies now react more to where your shooting them, melee weapons, environment changing, and even the map/campaign changes sometimes. Can't forget to add out the smaller improvements which would be new Special infected, Uncommon common, Fire ammunition, Walking Witches, and the new style of cresendo events.

I would of also liked new DLC for Left 4 Dead but it wouldn't be possible to make L4D2 a DLC.

gial240

Right. Some things can be patched in. But definitely not all. They're adding:

• melee combat with new weapons. This isn't just the shoving mechanic. Melee combat would include brand new mechanics and animations
  deeper cooperative gameplay with more co-op campaigns
• as you mentioned, AI Director 2.0, which Valve says will take the game's dynamic gameplay to the next level. That means the ability to procedurally change weather, world objects and pathways and "tailoring" enemy population, effects and sound. According to hands on impressions from 1Up, the AI Director has been updated significantly. It could not be simply patched in.
• new Survivors
• new boss zombies
• new items
• more Versus campaigns
• more maps for Survival mode

Other things just uncovered in a very recent 1Up podcast:

• The levels are more open with multiple paths
• Zombies can knock your weapon our of your hands
• Significant upgrade to animations
• Dismemberment a la Dead Space. So if you chop off a zombie's arms, he'll keep coming at you.
• Trap element - At some points in a campaign, you trigger an alarm. Waves of zombies will come at you.... indefinitely. You have to reach a switch to turn off the alarm

On top of that, Valve has gone on record to say that they're not done with the first L4D.

I agree. Based on what they've announce so far for L4D2 (5 new campaigns, 4 new characters, melee weapons, some new weapons, 3 new special infected, and the new kind of zombies) I think this should be DLC. ForsakenWicked

ok, so name one game that has had any type of DLC coming even close to this?

assuming the campaigns are the same length, thats 25 levels right there alone, along with whatever else is in it.

Left 4 Dead was and still is a great game to play. Sure we all have changes we would have liked and I think it's great that Valve is making changes based on the feedback they have gotten. While it may feel rushed, the new mechanics lead to a whole new potential for future expansions that could very well be DLC. Not to mention the fact that the game is still 5 months from release and a lot can happen in 5 months. For all we know they may implement a program to allow previous L4D owners get a discount? It may be unlikely, but I say give them a chance to create the game we all want without bashing it so quickly. We as consumers speak with our wallets,the best you can do isto purchase the game or not - Valve will get the message.

On top of that, Valve has gone on record to say that they're not done with the first L4D.

VoodooHak

If that is true and they continue to support the xbox 360 version of L4D I will no longer be so disappointed in them.

[QUOTE="craigalan23"]

I will get this game but used and around $30(Online retailer after a few months or whatever asles pop up). No way will Valve get a cent from me unless it is for dlc.

znator

@OP: no. stop ruining it for us who actually want a sequel. what's your deal anyways? wouldn't you rather be given the choice to buy l4d2 than to not? if you just aren't ready and are going to have a heart attack over a sequel to an awesome game, just don't buy it. pretend it doesn't exist and everyone is happy.

Do u guys think things through? This isnt my stuff, its for someone on the left 4 dead 2 forums.

"Okay, it's a highly impractical concept, and it's really just plain stupid to think that they COULD do it as a DLC but they just don't want to, but let's entertain this notion for a bit...

New weapons, characters and infected pack - ten dollars
Director 2.0 - ten dollars
Campaign 1 - ten dollars
Campaign 2 - ten dollars
Campaign 3 - ten dollars
Campaign 4 - ten dollars
Campaign 5 - ten dollars

So as the most conservative estimate, it would cost seventy bucks, ten dollars more than the game will cost.

Let's also consider that, spreading these updates out like this, here are some problems you face:

The community is split between those who have all the new stuff, those who have some of the new stuff, and those who have none of the new stuff.

Since the campaigns, new director and new weapons, characters and infected all rely on each other, the game would be highly unbalanced if, say, you chose to download the new stuff, but not the new campaigns, or the new campaigns but not the new director. Every new element relies on every other new element in order to work properly, so you can't just cut it up like a pie and take what you want.

It would also take up a couple gigs on your HDD, and mine is already cram-packed. I would have to delete several DLCs in order to fit a whole game as big as L4D2 on it.

Now, why it can't be free:

A talented programmer makes, on average, let's say fifty thousand dollars a year. I don't know what Valve pays their programmers, but that's pretty much the bare minimum. Let's say they only hired ten programmers to work on the game. With one year of production time, the game has already cost them five hundred thousand dollars to produce.

A graphic artist makes about the same, and likewise, we'll say Valve only hires about ten of them. The truth is it takes more than ten artists and ten programmers to make a game, and they make more than fifty grand a year if they work for Valve, but these are conservative estimates here.

So already the game will have cost a million bucks to produce by the time it's released.

Next you have four main voice actors working hundreds of hours and Mike Patton, who voices the Infected, working several hours as well.

Then you have marketing, play testing, distribution, licensing, legal defense fees for when the boycotters start a frivolous lawsuit, etc etc. It all costs money, and a lot of it.

So, even if it was DLC, it was never ever going to be free, ever, under any circumstance. No it wasn't.

So all we'd get by it being DLC is that we'd have to spend more money to get our hands on it, and we'd have to use it to take up about half of our HDDs. Hell if you have a smaller HDD, it might not even fit in the first place."

He forgot to add the new game mode and that would probably be another $10.

Not saying it will suck, but this game should have easily been included as DLC in the original, the game has not even been out for a year, and still has so many untapped potential with DLC, and they go and reveal a sequal to it and force you to pay $60 for it, I am hyped but come on valve get off your money making bandwagon, "it's to soon for a sequel"?

Who here agrees?

znator