The Debate Prep Thread

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alx222000

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#1 alx222000
Member since 2005 • 6180 Posts

This thread contains the rules for debates, and can be used to set up a debate.

Debate rules:

First, the debate needs a question, with multiple choices as to the answer.

The debate needs at least two sides, each trying to prove a different answer. The sides may include any number of members, but both sides must accept the number if the sides are uneven.

The sides can choose to either debate in a straight fashion, with both sides responding to the other's arguments and then putting forth their own, or they can have one side making all the arguments, and the other side simply responding to the arguments presented.

Optionally, the debate can have a judge/s, whos job is to decide which side argued the most effectively and who proved their side of the debate.

In the debate, the sides start by posting their side to the the debate. Then one side will post an argument. Then, starting with the next side, the sides will take turns, making a single post replying to the arguments and (if applicable) making their own arguments.

If the sides have multiple members, they will still take turns of a single post. Any member of the team is allowed to make the post. It is suggested PMs are used for any discussion as to who will post and what to post.

Editing your post after the other side has posted is not allowed.

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skine99

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#2 skine99
Member since 2006 • 3130 Posts
I like it :)
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dgwutka

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#3 dgwutka
Member since 2004 • 15331 Posts
good. there should be a team leader, too.
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Vaton

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#4 Vaton
Member since 2006 • 1804 Posts
I might join in if one of the debates is about something i care about.
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skine99

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#5 skine99
Member since 2006 • 3130 Posts

good. there should be a team leader, too.dgwutka

I disagree personally

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alx222000

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#6 alx222000
Member since 2005 • 6180 Posts
good. there should be a team leader, too.dgwutka
I assume you just mean having one person designated as the poster, that's for the team to sort out between them.
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LordAbyssion

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#7 LordAbyssion
Member since 2005 • 11247 Posts

[QUOTE="dgwutka"]good. there should be a team leader, too.skine99

I disagree personally

yes, that that would be unnecessary.

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dgwutka

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#8 dgwutka
Member since 2004 • 15331 Posts

[QUOTE="dgwutka"]good. there should be a team leader, too.alx222000
I assume you just mean having one person designated as the poster, that's for the team to sort out between them.

well, sort of. the person who is in charge. if he isnt the poster, he chooses who it is each "turn" and he gives out assignments i.e. you google this, you wiki that, you type this up, you think up that.

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skine99

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#9 skine99
Member since 2006 • 3130 Posts

I just don't see the point of the leader.

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dgwutka

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#10 dgwutka
Member since 2004 • 15331 Posts

I just don't see the point of the leader.

skine99

fine then, you team doesn't need to have one then.

anyway, i would like to be the first to sign up, and i invite the general to my team.

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Vaton

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#11 Vaton
Member since 2006 • 1804 Posts
[QUOTE="skine99"]

I just don't see the point of the leader.

dgwutka

fine then, you team doesn't need to have one then.

anyway, i would like to be the first to sign up, and i invite the general to my team.

We kind of need a debate first.

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skine99

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#12 skine99
Member since 2006 • 3130 Posts
[QUOTE="dgwutka"][QUOTE="skine99"]

I just don't see the point of the leader.

Vaton

fine then, you team doesn't need to have one then.

anyway, i would like to be the first to sign up, and i invite the general to my team.

We kind of need a debate first.

Yes. Oh and sign me up and I'll pick which side once the issue is decided.

So how about something simple such as the Death Penalty or Abortion

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dgwutka

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#13 dgwutka
Member since 2004 • 15331 Posts

i guess.

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skine99

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#14 skine99
Member since 2006 • 3130 Posts

i guess.

dgwutka

Which one? :P

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dgwutka

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#15 dgwutka
Member since 2004 • 15331 Posts
dont care
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skine99

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#16 skine99
Member since 2006 • 3130 Posts

dont caredgwutka

I say abortion because I feel death penalty doesn't have enough "pazzazz" :P

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General_Hyrule

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#17 General_Hyrule
Member since 2006 • 4756 Posts
sryy dg might not be able to debate. am grounded for about 2 weeks (week and a half now). although if u guys get done with those topics and need another here's one: Cloning. should it be allowed? hope i;m back in time for that one.
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skine99

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#18 skine99
Member since 2006 • 3130 Posts

sryy dg might not be able to debate. am grounded for about 2 weeks (week and a half now). although if u guys get done with those topics and need another here's one: Cloning. should it be allowed? hope i;m back in time for that one.General_Hyrule

Good idea, and we shall await your return

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dgwutka

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#19 dgwutka
Member since 2004 • 15331 Posts

i want the death penalty. and no im not just saying that because you want abortion. how about this: we debate on what we should debate about?

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skine99

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#20 skine99
Member since 2006 • 3130 Posts

i want the death penalty. and no im not just saying that because you want abortion. how about this: we debate on what we should debate about?

dgwutka

Woah man too deep man! :lol:

EDIT: ARGHHHHHH!! I HATE IT WHEN QUICK QUOTE MESSES UP AND DOESNT EVEN SHOW WHATI WROTE ANDI MUST EDIT IT!

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Vaton

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#21 Vaton
Member since 2006 • 1804 Posts
[QUOTE="dgwutka"]

i want the death penalty. and no im not just saying that because you want abortion. how about this: we debate on what we should debate about?

skine99

Woah man too deep man! :lol:

EDIT: ARGHHHHHH!! I HATE IT WHEN QUICK QUOTE MESSES UP AND DOESNT EVEN SHOW WHATI WROTE ANDI MUST EDIT IT!

Somebody has anger issues.
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dgwutka

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#22 dgwutka
Member since 2004 • 15331 Posts
yep. somebody call anger management
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skine99

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#24 skine99
Member since 2006 • 3130 Posts

yep. somebody call anger managementdgwutka

Well I had written a lot more then that and didnt want to type it out again

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alx222000

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#25 alx222000
Member since 2005 • 6180 Posts

[QUOTE="dgwutka"]yep. somebody call anger managementskine99

Well I had written a lot more then that and didnt want to type it out again

Did you consider pushing the back button and copy-pasting what you had written?
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skine99

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#26 skine99
Member since 2006 • 3130 Posts
[QUOTE="skine99"]

[QUOTE="dgwutka"]yep. somebody call anger managementalx222000

Well I had written a lot more then that and didnt want to type it out again

Did you consider pushing the back button and copy-pasting what you had written?

No.

SPAM ALERT!

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General_Hyrule

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#27 General_Hyrule
Member since 2006 • 4756 Posts
the back button wouldn't work if you used quick reply or quick quote cuz it would just so the origninal page; not with the place where you typed.
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skine99

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#28 skine99
Member since 2006 • 3130 Posts

the back button wouldn't work if you used quick reply or quick quote cuz it would just so the origninal page; not with the place where you typed.General_Hyrule

Exactly

SPAM ALERT!

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dgwutka

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#29 dgwutka
Member since 2004 • 15331 Posts

okay, thats getting annoying. i dont think the mods will mind if you say "no" as your post

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skine99

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#30 skine99
Member since 2006 • 3130 Posts

okay, thats getting annoying. i dont think the mods will mind if you say "no" as your post

dgwutka

You know we are the mods.... :P

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Vaton

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#31 Vaton
Member since 2006 • 1804 Posts
[QUOTE="dgwutka"]

okay, thats getting annoying. i dont think the mods will mind if you say "no" as your post

skine99

You know we are the mods.... :P

Except me!
I'm special.
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skine99

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#32 skine99
Member since 2006 • 3130 Posts
[QUOTE="skine99"][QUOTE="dgwutka"]

okay, thats getting annoying. i dont think the mods will mind if you say "no" as your post

Vaton

You know we are the mods.... :P

Except me!
I'm special.

BANNED!

JK :P

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General_Hyrule

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#34 General_Hyrule
Member since 2006 • 4756 Posts

Unless things have changed, then double posting (without good reason) is prohibited. :P Now that was my moderation for the month.

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alx222000

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#35 alx222000
Member since 2005 • 6180 Posts

the back button wouldn't work if you used quick reply or quick quote cuz it would just so the origninal page; not with the place where you typed.General_Hyrule
Ah, I see. I never use quick-quote.

Can everybody please return to topic?

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dgwutka

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#36 dgwutka
Member since 2004 • 15331 Posts

[QUOTE="General_Hyrule"]the back button wouldn't work if you used quick reply or quick quote cuz it would just so the origninal page; not with the place where you typed.alx222000

Ah, I see. I never use quick-quote.

Can everybody please return to topic?

fine. at least you didnt get out the anti-off-topic nukes and start blasting our posts

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General_Hyrule

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#37 General_Hyrule
Member since 2006 • 4756 Posts

there's one question though. how politicalcan the debates get? someones bound to, ok i am bound to :P, start some kind of political debate but it would be a difficult one to win. i don't mean republican vs democrat (that would be impossible) but other more simple things but if some people had good skills at debating it could be possible to debate over the idea of communism and the difference between monarchy and dictatorship and stuff like that where a point could be proven.

sorry if i seem very political this year. i'm taking Government and Economics over the summer break :P

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Chet_Jones

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#38 Chet_Jones
Member since 2004 • 1369 Posts

I think structure is important. Real debates are heavily structured and having a little bit of that will make it easier on everyone in the long one. It'll keep all the arguments in one place and setting time limits will keep things from slowing to a crawl. Okay here's a rough idea of what I'm talking about.

I recommend that each team set up a private message board with which they can exchange ideas, present their arguments to one another, review each other's sources, etc... you know, do things that can only strengthen the overall argument before the actual debate.

Each team presents their opinions seperately. The pros with the pros and the cons with the cons. That way it will be easier to get a grasp of the overall argument that each team is making. This should be done in a timely matter. One group will present their side first followed by the perspective of the other. It'll be the judge's decision to decide what a "timely matter" means. But generally it means that it looks like everyone that's going to post has posted. When that happens the judge will post it in the thread and it should look like this:

The Opening Statements of Team 1 have been made. Any further edits or statements will be disregarded. Team 2 may now present their argument.

DaJudge

It's up to the judge to decide when it's time to move on in the debate, but no arguing when they do, the judge's decisions are final and if you missed your point then you missed your point. Everyone has the same rights as everyone else, and too bad if your argument is weaker because you didn't post, should have been quicker to the draw. It is also a good idea for the judge to send PMs notifying people of when it's time to move on in the debate.

You start with your "Opening Statement"- here you'll establish your side of the argument and present the major points of said argument. For example, I saw death penalty being tossed around as an idea. Well let's say you got yourself a three man team. A smart way to approach it would be to divide up the work into separate perspectives; ex- for death penalty one may choose to look at the social, moral, or economic repercussions of the death penalty. You DO NOT start picking apart the other side's arguement, (even if your team goes second) your job is to establish your own. This brings us to...

"First Rebuttals"- this is where you pick apart the other sides argument. Your job here is to find inconsistencies among the arguments, contradictions within the arguments themselves, and to expose a lack of understanding of the subject among members of the opposing group. Be sure that you can support your argument, either through cited quotes or linking toweb pages that you feel are relevant. But don't abuse it. Ex. of abuse:

This right here says all I need to say.

Chet_Jones

Or

[QUOTE="Chet_Jones"]I like pieEvil_Chet_Jones

So???

In short, don't be lazy, use evidence to support your argument, but ultimately you're the one that has to make the point. Not everyone will reach the same conclusion you did when you looked at or read something. And please be sure that a web-page is both relevant and reputable before linking to it. Bear in mind that you're attacking the ARGUMENT of a person not the person themselves. This should go without saying but keep it in the thread and on topic, calling someone a n00b or saying they just got pwned isn't professional.

This brings us to the "Second Rebuttals"- Your job here is to defend your position, reestablish your argument/credibility, elaborate further on your message, and expose weaknesses in the other team's rebuttals. Handle it much the same way you handled the first rebuttals.

And thus we're brought to the "Closing Statements" section of our debate. Basically this is the last opportunity one has to squeeze out any hidden knowledge and to exploit any further weaknesses of the other team.

Then comes the judge's decision and verdict.

And congrats you just had a debate, cyber high-five.

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General_Hyrule

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#39 General_Hyrule
Member since 2006 • 4756 Posts

Ok most of what your saying I can agree with (sorry I can't use quotes where I am at to point things out), however thereare certain things I have to disagree with.

First, teams conversing with each other. From what I understand you want teams to exchange information correct? That doesn't make any sense to me because the idea of a debate is to gather information for yourself to win not gather information for a very close match. Now it is very essential that you are well versed on both sides of the argument but you should do that yourself or with your team, not let others tell you the information.That would lead to too many stand offs and too many conspiracy theories about how another team was cheating (like they didn't tell you all they knew). It makes it so that the responsibility of winning or losing the debate falls on the shoulders of that team and not of another teams information. Eg: one team could tell all they knew on their point and another team could tell them nothing; then the second team could just go look on the web on how to counter that argument instead of making their own which would make it a disadvantage to the first team.

Second about pointing out mistakes in someone's opening statement. I don't think everyone will start out the same way in an opening statement and if they start leading on to facts and trying to prove their facts, then that's when you can start picking apart another team's opening statement. The opening statement, and correct me if i am wrong, is to get across your point of the debate and not to prove your point. Unless you put a rule in the debate about this than someone could cheat and start proving their point in the opening statement and wthe other team would be unable to correct them if they had flaws and could cost them.

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Chet_Jones

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#40 Chet_Jones
Member since 2004 • 1369 Posts

Actually I agree with everything you just said, and that was the point I was trying to get across. My bad for being unclear. You're right, opposing teams shouldn't share information, what I meant to say was that people within the same team should try and collaborate, hence the private message board... (oops forgot that only people who pay can have those, doesn't stop PMs or IM though.)

Next, about opening statements. An opening statement is just a summation of one's opinion of the subject. Short and sweet; no facts yet or anything. It should be definite and understandable, but none too revealing. The goal of the debate is to try and point out the inherent flaws of this statement. The team going second could "cheat" and start attempting to dissemble the statements made by the first team. But that's as dangerous as it is helpful, it may provide for an initial advantage but it is a two-edged sword. Arguments and facts placed in the opening statement are considered to be spent ammunition. Proof is only half the game, the rest is pacing, knowing when to bring out what information. It's very possible to start out looking strong, but if you blew all your best points in the beginning than you'll likely be hurting by the end. If the first team had half a brain they would make sure that in the rebuttal they would have a counter-statement ready for each point made against their argument and a criticism for each opinion that the other team had, thereby strengthening their own perspective while simultaneously weakening that of the opposing team. The best way to handle the situation from either perspective is to just know what you're talking about. There is no right or wrong, just who's the better debater.

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General_Hyrule

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#41 General_Hyrule
Member since 2006 • 4756 Posts
Ok thanks for clearing that up. Huh, that last sentence of yours was very similar to what I told LordAbyssion when we were discussing on whether there should be a debate thread.
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Chet_Jones

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#42 Chet_Jones
Member since 2004 • 1369 Posts
Then mission accomplished. Sounds you get the spirit of the whole thing.
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alx222000

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#43 alx222000
Member since 2005 • 6180 Posts
............*points at Chet* You write rules. Try be concise. Make new thread. No debate, please:P
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LordAbyssion

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#44 LordAbyssion
Member since 2005 • 11247 Posts
whoa whoa... take it easy Chet.... lol... you were always the workhorse of the Guild:P:lol:
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Chet_Jones

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#45 Chet_Jones
Member since 2004 • 1369 Posts
I guess I can be a bit anal.
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General_Hyrule

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#46 General_Hyrule
Member since 2006 • 4756 Posts

So when is skine getting back cuz if we are gonna use his topics (abortion and death penalty, i think someone said they wanted to do one of them first) then we should probably wait for him. We could however appoint a judge and start sorting out who wants to participate in the debate.

Oh btw, how will we decide who is on what team and what team fights for what side? We could just make whoever wants one side be on that side but if no one wants to be on the opposite end. If that happens, and only if that happens, maybe we could split the people evenly and flip a coin (the judge perhaps) to decide what team gets what side. Sorry if I am being vague.

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Chet_Jones

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#47 Chet_Jones
Member since 2004 • 1369 Posts
I think Skine mentioned something in his blog about being back within a week. As for choosing sides, I say just let everyone pick their own side. I could either way on most things, so I'll probably end up joining whichever team has fewer people.
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General_Hyrule

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#48 General_Hyrule
Member since 2006 • 4756 Posts
I was trying to form an example of no one wanting to be on one side but I guess as long as there's someone who will be and doesn't mind uneven teams it doesn't matter much.
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skine99

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#49 skine99
Member since 2006 • 3130 Posts

Present. :P

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sithlord300

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#50 sithlord300
Member since 2005 • 7743 Posts
I'm here too ready to debate:DAlso to put in fact people are going to go on the side they want to be in and like Genreal said there could be an empty side,but there are going to be people who will just join the other side becuase no one else is.Like Chet Jones,i will do the same if that happens by chance,but come on lets start the debate :P