Is there an atheistic dogma?

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]-Democratic or Republican? Dont know the exact meanings here to give an answer.ChiliDragon

Funnily enough, in the UK, its largely similar, except the gay divorce and abortion debates, where all parties tend to agree on being permissive on those things. I wonder if that has anything to do with the vastly different religious complexions of the countries.

-How would you label yourself in regards to theological belief?

Athiest (hate that term, though... sounds so negative)

-Are you a naturalist?

Yes

-Do you believe that evolution by natural selection accounts for the diversity of life on earth?

Yes

-Do you believe that abiogenesis ocurred on earth?

I'm uncertain. I don't know if I can say it came from earth, though it must have occured somewhere.

-How old do you believe the earth is?

A little over four billion years.

-Do you believe that morality is absolute or relative?

Relative

-Do you believe that the universe is deterministic?

I'm a soft-determinist.

-Do you believe that we have free will?

Once again, soft-determinism. We have free will, but only within a limited (though practically infinite) range.

-How would you label yourself in regards to the abortion debate?

Pro-choice, with some limits (No 3rd trimester abortions etc.)

-Democratic or Republican?

Democratic-socialist

-Do you believe in any conspiracy theories? Biigfoot, aliens at Roswell, 9/11 government conspiracy, faked moon landing etc

I believe that life probably exists somewhere other than earth. Don't know if that qualifies, though.

-What do you think of Richard Dawkins?

It isn't discussed much, but in the God Delusion, he admitted to being molested by a priest, so I think much of his vituperative stance stems from that childhood pain. However, his books are a guilty pleasure of mine... I love his passion, sense of humor, love of science, and playful eloquence. Sometimes I feel that he's a little too belligerent, though, and I would never challenge Christians or other religious individuals as ardently as he does, as I seek harmonious coexistence with most other types of beliefs. In practice, I'm more accepting of Christians than Dawkins...along the lines of a Daniel Dennett.

-Cake or Pie?

Cake all the way... though I remove the icing first. I hate icing.

Didn't know about this Union till today. Pretty cool.

-How would you label yourself in regards to theological belief? 

Islam

-Are you a naturalist? 

No

-Do you believe that evolution by natural selection accounts for the diversity of life on earth?

Yes

-Do you believe that abiogenesis ocurred on earth?

Yes

-How old do you believe the earth is?

Whatever is currently accepted by the scientific community.

-Do you believe that morality is absolute or relative?

Absolute

-Do you believe that the universe is deterministic?

Not sure

-Do you believe that we have free will?

Yes, but only in some cases

-How would you label yourself in regards to the abortion debate?

Pro-life

-Democratic or Republican? 

Apolitical

-Do you believe in any conspiracy theories? Biigfoot, aliens at Roswell, 9/11 government conspiracy, faked moon landing etc

They are good for the lulz, but I never take them seriously.

-What do you think of Richard Dawkins?

Don't know too much about him

-Cake or Pie? (inb4lies)

Pie

Ghoklebutter, I thought Muslims permitted abortion within four months of the pregnancy, because that's when a fetus has a soul.

Ghoklebutter, I thought Muslims permitted abortion within four months of the pregnancy, because that's when a fetus has a soul.

Genetic_Code

Yes, but only for a legitimate reason. Not wanting the child is not a good enough reason to abort. You can only abort after 120 days if it is clear that giving birth would cost the mother's life or inflict a debilitating disease on her.

-How would you label yourself in regards to theological belief? 

Agnostic

Gambler_3

Profeessing atheism to a theist can make you look equally silly if the other person knows the meaning of it. I dont know why people who have a "lack of belief" still persist with the word atheist? It's not like being an atheist is considered socially good or somethin. I will never call myself an atheist again. 

Defnition of agnostic, "Someone who is sceptical about the existence of God but does not profess atheism". That fits me perfectly, this definition also shows that atheism is a belief or else it'l just be agnosticism no? Non-religious also seems a good word.

No matter how logically it may make sense to me that God doesnt exist and all religion is wrong, I think we humans must not overrate our senses of perception and rationality. There is a reason why people like darwin and carl sagan refused to be called atheists...

I dont know why people who have a "lack of belief" still persist with the word atheist?Gambler_3

It's because a lack of positive belief in the existence of God(s) is atheism. There's no way around that I'm afraid. Here's a quick etymological approach to defining atheism and agnosticism that should hopefully clear up what you categorise yourself as.

Now the root words behind atheism are "theos" which is simply Greek for god and "a" which means without. So when you refer to someone as a theist you're saying that they have a belief in God(s) but when you add the "a" at the beginning and refer to someone as an atheist then you're saying that they are without a belief in God(s).

An atheist therefore refers bothto a person who believes that God(s) don't exist and to a person who lacks a belief in the existence of God(s). It seems like what you've done is called the former atheism and then called the latter agnosticism.

That type of distinction doesn't make sense though, especially when we take the etymological approach to defining exactly what agnosticism is. The root words behind agnostic are "gnosis" which is Greek for knowledge and again "a" which means without. Gnosticism therefore is about knowing certain things whereas agnosticism is about not knowing certain things and in reference to God it would simply mean not knowing whether s/he or it exists.

So as you can see then agnosticism isn't an appropriate title to distinguish between believing that God doesn't exist and lacking a belief that he does exist. It relates to knowledge not belief (and remember I asked you what you believe not what you know) and it certainly doesn't relate to scepticism as you have defined it.

But what do you then call yourself? Well from what I can tell you don't profess to believe that God doesn't exist, rather you are simply sceptical of the claim that he does exist and for that reason lack a positive belief in him/her/it. That makes you a weak atheist and it is by far the most common form of atheism out there and at the very least the most intellectually defensible position. I presume you don't know whether or not God exists so in addition to being a weak atheist you would also be an agnostic or an agnostic weak atheist.

For myself I take a different stance and say that I believe God does not exist but I don't have any knowledge about whether this is true. That makes me an agnostic strong atheist.

Bottom line- although we believe different things we're both still atheists.

EDIT: I just watched this video which kind of addresses the problem in defining atheism http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jciDdmIJpoY&feature=related

It's because a lack of positive belief in the existence of God(s) is atheism.domatron23

I wish I had used your argument against Vandalvideo yesterday. He kept bringing up the Oxford English Dictionary's definition of atheism, which was essentially strong atheism, and I didn't know how to defeat him other than to spout "argument from authority".

English is not my native language so I cant go so deeper in the words. And really who are we to try to make sense like you did? We cant make our own words, many things in language dont make sense.

And yes something like the oxford dictionary is the authority is it not? I can call myself an atheist among atheists where people actually understand the 2 different sets of atheism. But the problem happens when the person doesnt even know the meaning and looks it up and assumes things himself.

Lets see a definiton of atheism from merriam-webster,

a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b: the doctrine that there is no deity

Now seems like it actually nails it well but the first definition is not contradictory to the other.

Now lets see agnosticism,

merriam-webster

1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly: one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

dictionary.com

1. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.

2. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.

I have been told that agnostisim is not a belief system but seems like it is? And really all the definitions fit me pretty perfectly whereas "the doctrine that there is no diety" is certainly something I am not a part of.

I think agnostisim is a better word for weak atheists.

[QUOTE="domatron23"]It's because a lack of positive belief in the existence of God(s) is atheism.Genetic_Code

I wish I had used your argument against Vandalvideo yesterday. He kept bringing up the Oxford English Dictionary's definition of atheism, which was essentially strong atheism, and I didn't know how to defeat him other than to spout "argument from authority".

I once debated with a user who tried to use a dictionary definition to contradict my position, and when he actually showed me the link to the online dictionary, the dictionary contained two defintions of the word in question. One of the definitions supported my argument, and the other one contradicted me.Yet he still tried to calim that the dictionary as a whole disagreed with me, which was complete nonsense. Had I not asked for a link to the dictionary, he would have had the upper hand in the debate.

The moral of the story is, is that when people quote sources without actually providing a link, they could easily be elaborating the importance of that link as support for their arguments. There is no need to believe them.

EDIT: Congrats on the new sig and avy.

Did he actually provide you with a scan of that dictionary showing you that?MetalGear_Ninty

No, he didn't, but I doubt Vandalvideo would lie over that. By I'll definitely ask him again if the topic ever comes back up. 

I once debated with a user who tried to use a dictionary definition to contradict my position, and when he actually showed me the link to the online dictionary, the dictionary contained two defintions of the word in question. One of the definitions supported my argument, and the other one contradicted me.Yet he still tried to calim that the dictionary as a whole disagreed with me, which was complete nonsense. Had I not asked for a link to the dictionary, he would have had the upper hand in the debate.MetalGear_Ninty

That kind of reminds me how Crushmaster always defined a liar as being someone who has ever lied, even if it was once. The more I think about it though, the more I think Crushmaster was right. Everyone lies and even if they have momentarily stopped lying, given time, they will lie again.

I saw a church marquee today that said, "A half truth is a whole lie", and I don't necessarily agree with it, but I do believe that a half truth is deceitful. Some online dictionaries define a lie as being untruthful, while others define it as being any statement intended to deceive or pervert the truth. I'm going to weigh in and say that the church marquee was accurate.

Congrats on the new sig and avy.MetalGear_Ninty

Thanks. 

I think agnosticism is a better word for weak atheists.

Gambler_3

You might think that potato is a better word for a politician but you'd still be wrong.

Really though I can understand where you're coming from because in common parlance agnosticism does pretty much mean to be undecided about whether God exists or not. That kind of definition seems to be more an attempt to disassociate oneself from atheism though and it's essentially caused a bastardization of the English language (which really gets under my skin).

What you can do though when ever you're asked what you believe is to just say that you reject both the claim that God exists and the claim that he does not exist. Technically that would make you a weak atheist but if you really want to call it agnosticism you can. Just be prepared for some frustration in communication because some people like myself use agnosticism in its more precise sense where it relates to knowledge not belief. For me saying that you're agnostic when I ask you what you believe is like saying Monday when I ask you what time it is.

Sorry for the rant btw. I'm a real nazi when it comes to proper language use as I've had far too many experiences of words (such as "evolution" or "chance") being mangled and turning a debate into an exercise in futility.

-How would you label yourself in regards to theological belief?

Atheist

-Are you a naturalist?

Yes

-Do you believe that evolution by natural selection accounts for the diversity of life on earth?

Yes

-Do you believe that abiogenesis ocurred on earth?

Yes

-How old do you believe the earth is?

I don't really know, it doesn't matter anyways.

-Do you believe that morality is absolute or relative?

Relative

-Do you believe that the universe is deterministic?

Absolutely no.

-Do you believe that we have free will?

Yes

-How would you label yourself in regards to the abortion debate?

I would be on the anti side but will go for pro abortion out of pity. Pity that children would not experience a good life because of immature parents.

-Democratic or Republican?

Don't know what republican is but I prefer to be democratic.

-Do you believe in any conspiracy theories? Biigfoot, aliens at Roswell, 9/11 government conspiracy, faked moon landing etc

Sometimes.

-What do you think of Richard Dawkins?

Doesn't ring a bell.

-Cake or Pie?

Pie. Pizza pie.

-How would you label yourself in regards to theological belief?

-Are you a naturalist?

yes

-Do you believe that evolution by natural selection accounts for the diversity of life on earth?

Yes

-Do you believe that abiogenesis ocurred on earth?

Yes

-How old do you believe the earth is?

4.54 billion (if i remember right)

-Do you believe that morality is absolute or relative?

Relative, that is my strong belief

-Do you believe that the universe is deterministic?

not entirely sure what this means even after reading 3 different definitions of it

-Do you believe that we have free will?

Yes

-How would you label yourself in regards to the abortion debate?

i disagree with abortions that happen after the baby is breathing on its own and is able to survive on its own. if the abortion happens before the baby can survive on its own then i say it's perfectly fine.

so somewhat pro choice

-Democratic or Republican?

social democrat, fiscal conservative: 

what i mean by this: i stand with the democrats on mostly everything: pro-choice, against prayer in schools, against religious involvement in any way, pro environment, pro socialized medicine, etc.

 however, i am for smaller government spending, during the current economic crisis especially, and i do believe government should not intervene in anything unless its an industry that should be regulated.

-Do you believe in any conspiracy theories? Biigfoot, aliens at Roswell, 9/11 government conspiracy, faked moon landing etc

not really.

-What do you think of Richard Dawkins?

he's one smart guy. i agree with most of his views on religion and evolution, although all i've read of him is "the god delusion" and even of that i've only read 1/2 of it.

-Cake or Pie? (inb4lies)

pie

-How would you label yourself in regards to theological belief?

 

Agnostic 1% atheist 99%

chopperdave447

-How would you label yourself in regards to theological belief?

Irreligious, non-spiritual.

-Are you a naturalist?

I'll tentatively say yes.

-Do you believe that evolution by natural selection accounts for the diversity of life on earth?

That seems to be the case, but I'm no scientist.

-Do you believe that abiogenesis ocurred on earth?

Like the last one, this seems like a reasonable explanation but I won't commit to saying I necessarily believe it.

-How old do you believe the earth is?

The scientific consensus seems to be that it's a few billion years old, but honestly I couldn't care less.

-Do you believe that morality is absolute or relative?

This one I can firmly say relative.

-Do you believe that the universe is deterministic?

Strictly speaking, yes.

-Do you believe that we have free will?

Literally, no; for our purposes, yes. Causality does seem to negate the idea of free will, but since we cannot understand the causal relationships of every sub-atomic particle in the human brain, I don't think it's wholly unjustifiable to say we have free will as far as we're concerned. I use the game of chess as an analogy - Just because the game has a solution where one side will win every time given perfect play, we haven't figured it out yet and even if we did, the possible moves are so numerous that for human purposes it wouldn't make any difference anyhow.

-How would you label yourself in regards to the abortion debate?

I care about first trimester fetuses about as much as I care about snails; the matter as a whole doesn't much interest me. I do however find it ridiculous that people will go to such lengths to save non-sentient organisms while millions of thinking, feeling children starve and die.

-Democratic or Republican?

Not American, so the political culture is a bit different. Having said that, I distrust and dislike big business and I generally disagree with policy designed to accommodate their interests.

-Do you believe in any conspiracy theories? Biigfoot, aliens at Roswell, 9/11 government conspiracy, faked moon landing etc

Nope.

-What do you think of Richard Dawkins?

Haven't read any of his stuff.

-Cake or Pie? (inb4lies)

For the most part, pie.

[QUOTE="chopperdave447"]

-How would you label yourself in regards to theological belief?

 

Agnostic 1% atheist 99%

Gambler_3

as a physics major, it is unscientific to completely discount the possibility of some form of god existing.

-How would you label yourself in regards to theological belief? note this question is asking about what you believe not what you know

I believe in science

-Are you a naturalist? naturalism is synonymous with materialism and physicalism which state that physical matter is the only reality. This view denies that anythingsupernatural exists.

Yes

-Do you believe that evolution by natural selection accounts for the diversity of life on earth?

Yes

-Do you believe that abiogenesis ocurred on earth?

Yes

-How old do you believe the earth is?

Almost four billion years

-Do you believe that morality is absolute or relative?

Relative

-Do you believe that the universe is deterministic?

I believe things happen for a reason, this doesn't means something must to happen in only one way, however is the first time i hear this term and i think i embrace it

-Do you believe that we have free will?

I don't like that term, i believe i can do whatever i want but there will be consequences to those actions, those consequences could be good or bad

-How would you label yourself in regards to the abortion debate? This debate is often too complicated for labels so feel free to elaborate on your standpoint.

I totally support abortion, a woman has the right to choose

-Democratic or Republican? This one won't apply to many people (including myself) so either put not applicable or give us your political views

Noone, whatever it works

-Do you believe in any conspiracy theories? Biigfoot, aliens at Roswell, 9/11 government conspiracy, faked moon landing etc

I believe in some of them, for example aliens in Roswell

-What do you think of Richard Dawkins?

Sorry, i don't know him 

-Cake or Pie? (inb4lies)

Both, why only choose one when i can have both?