How was your relationship with your father?

Here's an interest lecture by Dr. Paul Kritz regarding the psychology of atheism with regards to the atheist's relationship with his father. Please note that the poll is open only for atheists, so please don't vote if you believe in God.

Regarding the article, I find it funny that Kritz does not know what an ad hominem attack is, which is what he refers to Freud's projection theory. If a person is lying during a debate, it is not an ad hominem attack to call that person a liar, so as long as you can prove it. What's ironic is that his own attacks against popular atheists are a reversal of Freud's projection theory, which in itself is an ad hominem attack by his own standards, assuming he doesn't hold double standards of course.

Personally, I hated my father and still feel some animosity towards him to this day. He's called me names and insulted me a lot. He also beat me which sometimes resulted in fights. Some of that was my fault, but a lot of it got out of hand. However, I tried not to let that be the reason I became an atheist.

That was a wierd read. I like this bit:

"In conclusion, rather than judging atheists harshly, we must have an understanding of the deep psychological pain underlying much atheism."

I hope they remember to pray for us! I think you are right about the ad-hominem attack mix-up. Using Freud's transference back at him was amusing though.

I don't quite know how to fill in your survey. Like most people I know, my relationship with my Dad was variable. It was certainly strained through my teenage years, and I resented the bad stuff he did. We hardly spoke though my twenties, but we gradually grew to understanding each other after that. I was glad I was able see past my issues with him eventually though. He never had any spiritual belief himself, so I wasn't rebelling against that.

I don't think I'm unusual in that sort of paternal relationship, so don't get your violin out. I would imagine many religious people have issues with their fathers too. If this is true, it shows Dr Vitz's allegations have no substance. This thread will tell...

The only thing in the poll that applies about my relationship with my father is not the main reason I may have some negative feelings for him.

Didn't vote.

 My relationship with my dad is okay. I argue with him occasionally, though. :P

I'm very close to my father, he's a good bloke. Kritz has allowed an exception to his theory though where the father is also an atheist (which my father is) so perhaps that fact doesn't effect his theory.

There are exceptions to my theory. John Stuart Mill was an atheist who was close to his father. However, his father was an atheist, and so it could be said that Mill came by his atheism the natural way.Kritz

Come to think of though I'm not entirely clear about what his theory is after reading the lecture notes. Is it that people lose the need for a cosmic father figure after suffering an inadequate Dad? Surely there are theists with bad parents. Why didn't the same happen to them?

I did not respond to the poll but I get along fine with my dad.  We vary rarely argue but that doesn't mean the relationship is perfect.  He's a great dad and has always been physically present but we've never bonded well.  This is more because of our differences in personality and interests than anything.  My dad is a mechanic, biker, and former farmer and not the most educated individual.  I on the other hand am a seminary student and a geek. 

Sure, he's had alcohol problems but he always hid it from his family.  Heck, I didn't even know about it until high school and thus it never affected our relationship directly.  We get along fine, we just tend to be emotionally distant with one another.  However, my brother is a lot more like my dad than me and they especially get along well.

I do feel as if our relationship has effected my relationship with God.  With my dad, I know he is there and loves me but sometimes I have had issues with bonding with one another.  In just the same way, I have the tendency to respond to God in the same manner.  I know he is a loving Father, I just have issues with "feeling it."

There are some serious problems with those notes/lecture/whatever. . . Here are some nits it wish to pick:

1. His "theory" is based on some outdated assumptions regarding sexual development.     

2.His "theory" has little support beyond anecdotal evidence, he picks people whom he then labels as atheists, who also had bad fathers. Using this kind of reasoning to state "Atheism is thus merely Oedipal wish fulfillment." is specious at best.  

3. His "theory" assumes that god exists and that god was once viewed as a father figure by almost every atheist. 

4. Though I can't really fault him for this one: His "theory" is insulting. According to this guy if your an atheist, you are either shallow or suffering from some physiological disorder. This is almost as insulting as the countless chaplains that have told me that "There are no atheists in foxholes"

His "theory" is insulting. According to this guy if your an atheist, you are either shallow or suffering from some physiological disorder.

Frattracide

I actually argue that everyone suffers from mental illness being that there exists no person who is truly and completely mentally whole (except perhaps Jesus :P ).  If I were to make that argument, would the theory still be insulting? (I'm asking this as a serious question out of curiosity.)

I actually argue that everyone suffers from mental illness being that there exists no person who is truly and completely mentally whole (except perhaps Jesus :P ).  If I were to make that argument, would the theory still be insulting? (I'm asking this as a serious question out of curiosity.)

mindstorm

It is insulting because of the patronizing and dismissive attitude it presents toward a person who is an atheist. The man gos so far as to say "[. . .]rather than judging atheists harshly, we must have an understanding of the deep psychological pain underlying much atheism."   What is implied is that no rational or mentally healthy person could have a true atheistic viewpoint. It is asserted that atheism is a maleficence of sorts, the product of an abusive upbringing and should be dismissed as mental illness.

This is the same sort of insult unwittingly uttered by those chaplains I mentioned earlier. Telling me "There are no atheists in foxholes" amounts to saying that I will abandon my position in a crises. The idea being that my position is not serious and that deep down, I don't really mean any of it.

I do not believe in any sort of god and I see no compelling evidence for a deity or any other supernatural phenomena, but I do acknowledge that there are people who do. While I disagree with them I understand that, for the most part, the positions they advocate are positions that they sincerely believe are true and that they think that they are on the right path to knowledge. If I can show this basic level of respect to someone who does not hold the same position as myself, is it then, too much to ask that they do the same?    

Why is there only one positive option in the poll? Are you suggesting that atheists are more likely to have a bad opinion about their father?:|

And what's up with "was"? My relationship with my father still IS absolutely great and one of the biggest intangible asset of my life. Even though he is utterly deluded religiously, he is still an intelligent being when it comes to worldly matters and seems to have accepted that I am not very religious.

I actually argue that everyone suffers from mental illness being that there exists no person who is truly and completely mentally whole

mindstorm

Why is there only one positive option in the poll? Are you suggesting that atheists are more likely to have a bad opinion about their father?:|

Gambler_3

No. I'm more interested into why an atheist may not get along with his father than the reason if the opposite were to occur. Plus, there are several reasons why a person would not get along with his father, but only a lack of bad reasons for the most part on why a person would get along with his father.

Plus, there are several reasons why a person would not get along with his father, but only a lack of bad reasons for the most part on why a person would get along with his father.Genetic_Code

Are you saying that a person would only get along with his father due to their being no reason to not get along?:?

My father is a conservative and a very devout religious person, he follows a doctrine where the father is to an extent held responsible for the religiosity of the child. I am a liberal and a strong atheist, there we have a recipe for disaster.

But you know there's a thing called "love" and compromise, balance. If I started living my life exactly the way I want to then you have no idea what would happen.

I understand you didn't get along with your father and I do-not mean to offend you but I dont think you have a clue of what a true parent-child relation is like so please stop with the assumptions.

What exactly does the latter mean?

Are you saying that a person would only get along with his father due to their being no reason to not get along?:?

My father is a conservative and a very devout religious person, he follows a doctrine where the father is to an extent held responsible for the religiosity of the child. I am a liberal and a strong atheist, there we have a recipe for disaster.

But you know there's a thing called "love" and compromise, balance. If I started living my life exactly the way I want to then you have no idea what would happen.

I understand you didn't get along with your father and I do-not mean to offend you but I dont think you have a clue of what a true parent-child relation is like so please stop with the assumptions.

Gambler_3

Well, as I see it, perfection is a lack of flaws, not a certain amount of good deeds. I guess I could have come up with some good reasons for why the atheist would have a good relationship with his father, but I wasn't interested in it. Besides, polls on GameSpot can have no more than five choices.

I'm a conservative but I'm an atheist and I'm vehemently anti-religious although I don't show it to anyone. My dad is a conservative and although he's not religious, he believes in God and still considers himself to be a Christian. The religious reasons is not why we get into disputes though. It's our differences on matters as I see it. He's very rude when he doesn't need to be and he likes to get his way when his way simply isn't the right way.