How do you stay motivated?

I know this is an atheism board and motivation seems to be a distant topic. However, i think one of the most beneficial aspects of religion is its ability to give people a sense of motivation, purpose, and resolve to continue to struggle on despite overwhelming odds. Do you think atheists have something that can compare to the feeling that you are working on behalf of an omnipotent creator?

As a former theist, I will admit my view of the world grew a lot darker during the period I stopped believing. All of a sudden I was not guaranteed success if I try hard enough, and started wondering if there were things worth striving for anymore. Atheism may logically be the most correct position to hold in regards to religious perspective, but do you think it is the most emotionally healthy?

Maybe the answer is just, "this life is all that you have got so you may as well make the best of it," but I am just curious as to some other views on this.

It's true that religions are often used to help people cope with suffering and/or to give a sense of purpose. There's no emotional equivalent for me because I don't use atheism as an emotional crutch. I value integrity over an emotional high, so my conscience tells me that I could not live a religious life and be happy/sincere. Using any religion and/or deity for the sole purpose of getting comfort is like an alchoholic depending on getting drunk to be happy. I don't admire the happiness of a religious hypocrite any more than the happiness of a drunk person.

Atheism may logically be the most correct position to hold in regards to religious perspective, but do you think it is the most emotionally healthy?Plzhelpmelearn

In many respects it's not. It's one of those things where you find that reality kind of sucks. We're mortal just like any other animal but we are equipped with a mind sophisticated enough to comprehend our transcience. We live our lives day to day, completing humdrum activities, being pushed and pulled by the base motivations instilled within us throughout our evolutionary past all the while being completely aware of the absurdity of it all.

For many that is just not a feasible way to live. There must be something more they say, and so arises the edifice of religion.

There is one respect in which atheism is an emotionally healthy way to live however. It allows a person to maintain their sincerity. No matter how bleak a godless world may seem it is even bleaker to live in that same world while being systematically dishonest with yourself and others.

Now this one aspect of atheism is a rather narrow foundation on which to build a fulfilling life, indeed many fall off of it and lose any motivation whatsoever. Nevertheless if you build on this narrow foundation of sincerity you can end up with a motivated, emotionally healthy life. It's a method of coping that's probably quite a bit more difficult than just submitting to a religion but in acheiving it I feel priveledged.

I find it easier to stay motivated as an atheist. When you don't believe there's any kind of greater power controlling your destiny that means that you have control over your future. Granted that means you have the ability to completely **** it up, but it also meansthat you have the ability to do what you want to do. And since you have only a mere 70-80 years to get it all done you better get on it fast and try to make sure that you lived your life in a way that you find worthwhile.

Simply believing in God wouldn't bring any assurances to me personally. The fact that the vast majority of people on this planet live in mediocrity at best and severe poverty at worst shows that just because God exists doesn't mean you're going to have an exciting life, much less a good one. Another way to think of it is "what if God's plan for you is to serve as a warning to others?"

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]Gamerguy you got it right. How can I be motivated "knowing" that god has already "fixed" my fate and I cannot do jack to change it?Android339

Not all religions that include a belief in one God believe that everyone's life is "fixed". Calvinists believe that, I know, but for the most part, other religions believe that we follow our own free agency in choosing to follow God or not.

In christianity as well your fate is fixed as the very existence of an omnipotent and omniscient god leaves no other option. I dont care what the christians actually believe, this topic is about believing in what the religions teach us.

God can know something is going to happen, but that doesn't mean He's in control of it.

Android339

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"][QUOTE="Android339"]

God can know something is going to happen, but that doesn't mean He's in control of it.

Android339

I know what omnipotence is. All powerful. You joined this with the concept of His omniscience, or that He's all knowledgeable. However, just because He knows that, say, Bob is going to rob a store, doesn't mean that God is making him rob the store by virtue of Him being all powerful. It's Bob's choice.

On the other hand, though, in what way is it a true choice?  One makes choices not arbitrarily, but rather based on what one believes to be the best way in which one may achieve what one wants.  And both what one wants and one's perception of the best way to achieve it come from a person's genetics, a person's parents, a person's upbringing, a person's environment, with whom a person interacts, what opportunities are presented to that person, and so on - all of which is wholly out of that person's control.  If God is in complete control, then God is ultimately in control of all of those things, and therefore God really does ultimately make Bob rob that store.

My motivation comes from listening to reason and not emotion. Too many times, I listen to my whims and not logic. I've found that the best way for me to do something is to think rationally, which is to say to have a justifiable reason for the action which I believe I should do.Genetic_Code

While I agree rational thinking is the best choice to make correct decisions, superb rational thinking without an emotional connection to me is like having a Lamborghini without any gas.

[QUOTE="Android339"][QUOTE="Gambler_3"][QUOTE="Android339"]

God can know something is going to happen, but that doesn't mean He's in control of it.

GabuEx

I know what omnipotence is. All powerful. You joined this with the concept of His omniscience, or that He's all knowledgeable. However, just because He knows that, say, Bob is going to rob a store, doesn't mean that God is making him rob the store by virtue of Him being all powerful. It's Bob's choice.

On the other hand, though, in what way is it a true choice? One makes choices not arbitrarily, but rather based on what one believes to be the best way in which one may achieve what one wants. And both what one wants and one's perception of the best way to achieve it come from a person's genetics, a person's parents, a person's upbringing, a person's environment, with whom a person interacts, what opportunities are presented to that person, and so on - all of which is wholly out of that person's control. If God is in complete control, then God is ultimately in control of all of those things, and therefore God really does ultimately make Bob rob that store.

I would disagree with you Gabu on two points based on my former Christian world view.

1. God is capable of taking complete control of all those factors that affect people's decisions, but he does not often do this. God may act occasionally in human affairs to cause some event to happen, but there are usually extenuating circumstances for this, such as the conversion of Paul and the ministry of Jesus and ongoing one of the Holy Spirit.

2. I agree that those factors, which basically summed up equal nature and nurture, greatly affect peoples' decisions. However, in a Christian view of the world it seems human will trumps all other factors in the decision making process. God has instilled in us a moral compass that we can choose to obey or ignore and it is an individual's responsibility to obey it, regardless of all other factors, or be held accountable for it.

Ultimately, I agree with you about what controls people's decisions, however I do think the armenian Christian understanding makes sense within its own framework for understanding how free will can exist with an omnipotent and omnibenevolent God.

[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]My motivation comes from listening to reason and not emotion. Too many times, I listen to my whims and not logic. I've found that the best way for me to do something is to think rationally, which is to say to have a justifiable reason for the action which I believe I should do.Plzhelpmelearn

While I agree rational thinking is the best choice to make correct decisions, superb rational thinking without an emotional connection to me is like having a Lamborghini without any gas.

True. If I don't feel like it emotionally, all too often I won't do it, despite my best intentions.

[QUOTE="Android339"][QUOTE="Gambler_3"][QUOTE="Android339"]

God can know something is going to happen, but that doesn't mean He's in control of it.

GabuEx

I know what omnipotence is. All powerful. You joined this with the concept of His omniscience, or that He's all knowledgeable. However, just because He knows that, say, Bob is going to rob a store, doesn't mean that God is making him rob the store by virtue of Him being all powerful. It's Bob's choice.

On the other hand, though, in what way is it a true choice? One makes choices not arbitrarily, but rather based on what one believes to be the best way in which one may achieve what one wants. And both what one wants and one's perception of the best way to achieve it come from a person's genetics, a person's parents, a person's upbringing, a person's environment, with whom a person interacts, what opportunities are presented to that person, and so on - all of which is wholly out of that person's control. If God is in complete control, then God is ultimately in control of all of those things, and therefore God really does ultimately make Bob rob that store.

sorry disagree. thats like saying because my dad is a drunk i was raised around a drunk im therefore by influence bound to be a drunk when the fact remains at the end of the day i voluntarly picked up that beer and got wasted.

by the same affect its also like the BS in courts oh the guy commited murder well here comes his sob story about his tragic life sorry i dont care you voluntarly pulled the trigger on an innocent person.

I would disagree with you Gabu on two points based on my former Christian world view.

1. God is capable of taking complete control of all those factors that affect people's decisions, but he does not often do this. God may act occasionally in human affairs to cause some event to happen, but there are usually extenuating circumstances for this, such as the conversion of Paul and the ministry of Jesus and ongoing one of the Holy Spirit.

2. I agree that those factors, which basically summed up equal nature and nurture, greatly affect peoples' decisions. However, in a Christian view of the world it seems human will trumps all other factors in the decision making process. God has instilled in us a moral compass that we can choose to obey or ignore and it is an individual's responsibility to obey it, regardless of all other factors, or be held accountable for it.

Ultimately, I agree with you about what controls people's decisions, however I do think the armenian Christian understanding makes sense within its own framework for understanding how free will can exist with an omnipotent and omnibenevolent God.

Plzhelpmelearn

But where does "free will" come into play?  Like I said, any time someone does something, they do it because they want something and feel that their actions are the best option for bringing about what they want.  And where does what we want come from?  It can't come from within, because then you get into the infinite regress of, "Where did our desire to have that desire come from?  And where did our desire to have that desire to have that desire come from? (Etc.)"  So it must come from outside.  But if it comes from outside, then that means that we are ultimately not in control of our desires.  And since this holds for every human, that means that to find the true explanation for every human's actions, we must go beyond humanity, and this will inevitably lead us back to God, since he ultimately set everything else into motion.

I mean, for a very simple example, take the story of creation with Adam and Eve.  As the story goes, the serpent tricked Adam and Eve into eating the apple of knowledge by basically telling them that God lied.  Which is all well and good, until you ask a number of questions about it:

1. Why did Eve believe the serpent over God?

2. Why was the serpent in the garden in the first place?

3. Why was the tree of knowledge in the garden in the first place?

I mean, none of these can be answered just by saying "free will".  People don't do things arbitrarily for no reason.  Why would Eve believe the serpent over God?  The only answer one can reach is because something led her to the conclusion that the serpent was more trustworthy than God.  But what would have led her to that conclusion?  Assuming for a moment that the events in the story actually happened, there must have been something present in the garden that would have led her to that conclusion.

And the other two - those are directly because God allowed them to be there.  If you put a newborn baby next to Drano and he drinks it and dies, whose fault is that - the baby's, or the one who put the Drano there?  I would imagine few would claim it's the baby's fault; rather, it's due to extreme negligence on the part of the parents.

So, where does that leave us?  Yes, Eve ate from the apple.  But why?  Simple: there was a serpent present to trick her; there was an item present with which she could be tricked; and there was something in the garden that convinced her to trust the serpent over her own creator.  Which one of these is her fault?  None of them, that's which.  All of them are ultimately due to the actions of God.

sorry disagree. thats like saying because my dad is a drunk i was raised around a drunk im therefore by influence bound to be a drunk when the fact remains at the end of the day i voluntarly picked up that beer and got wasted.

by the same affect its also like the BS in courts oh the guy commited murder well here comes his sob story about his tragic life sorry i dont care you voluntarly pulled the trigger on an innocent person.

kayoticdreamz

Crediting a human's actions to "free will" is entirely an oversimplification, really.  If everything a human does is due to "free will", then why, for example, are criminals vastly disproportionately impoverished?  If a person does things because they are "good" or "bad", then ought we to conclude that poor people are more "bad" than well-off people?  This sort of twisted reasoning is precisely the sort of thing that led people to conclude that wealth was a product of divine favor - a conclusion that Jesus attacked mercilessly.

Bottom line, if "free will" existed, then humans wouldn't be so darn predictable.  People do things because something has led them to conclude that the things they do are good ideas.  Does this mean that we shouldn't convict people of crimes they commit?  No - but at the same time it does mean that we shouldn't punish them because "they deserve it" or because they're "bad", but rather either to rehabilitate them, to deter others, or to protect society. 

I know what omnipotence is. All powerful. You joined this with the concept of His omniscience, or that He's all knowledgeable. However, just because He knows that, say, Bob is going to rob a store, doesn't mean that God is making him rob the store by virtue of Him being all powerful. It's Bob's choice.

Android339

I mean god knew even before creating bob that he will rob the store if given the freedom, I knew before creating a child that he cant be left alone for a few years. Me and god both could have stopped the respective unfortunate events but we decided to give FREE WILL.:lol:

My motivation comes from listening to reason and not emotion. Too many times, I listen to my whims and not logic. I've found that the best way for me to do something is to think rationally, which is to say to have a justifiable reason for the action which I believe I should do.Genetic_Code

But being a human comes with two sides to the coin. Denying one side of the coin in favour of the other will just leave you lost, confused or empty feeling. I've tried both, and found that a balanced norm between the two extremes works best. Too much emotion and you can easily get involved in things that could hurt you, and too much rationalism will just have you miss out on tons of stuff life has to offer.foxhound_fox

You should have both. However, people let their emotions affect their reasoning, when they should let reason effect their emotions. That's the problem with women today. They let their emotions weigh their decisions and not reason. A  rational man knows that when he sees a painting, he can appreciate it not just for its beauty, which is a revelation or celebration of life, but he will appreciate it for its meaning, which is based in reality. A irrational man loves the painting "just because". She doesn't quite qualify her emotion, because there's no rational basis for which to qualify it.