Will you buy TloU 2? Given the leaks

Look, I’m all for equality and shit, but who honestly asked to play as a vindictive, vengeful rampaging hormonal Uruk Hai with moobs swinging a golf club?

Ah well, progress comes in many forms I suppose.

All kidding aside, this whole leak reeks to me (which I know is conjecture at this point) of more than a simply pay dispute. This feels it's in response to a toxic and intolerant working environment at ND in general, and the issues we're seeing are simply the tip of a much bigger berg. They've suffered a high turnover rate before this whole pay controversy even began. Crunch, yea I don't buy it. Don't think situations like this can remain tenable for long so we'll see, but considering some of the downright hateful vitriol ND employees have been spewing in Twitter replies to people who even so much as utter a modicum of disagreement towards their ideologies seems indicative to me this move is as much ideologically punitive as it is financially driven.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

Imagine this is how it will probably turn out.

@uninspiredcup: Was trying to post that vid from another site, because it's glorious... Wouldn't work. Whoever makes this kinda shit is a God among men.

@uninspiredcup said:

Imagine this is how it will probably turn out.

cup, just play Doom Eternal the masterpiece and lets pretend if this not exist. because

Its been ages since I been on Gamespot omg! LOL

Hi everyone!

To answer the topic yep! I didn't see any spoilers so im getting it! :D

lol.

Welcome back Final! Glad to see ya again. I'll also be getting it myself day one.

@Maroxad: Didn't know Left Behind got flank for her being lesbian. As long as the game itself is awesome, I'm sure all will be forgiven. And I didn't look at the leaks, so I can't comment if the game deliver.

Left Behind got flack because it shoehorned in this whole lesbian thing which had absolutely nothing to do with the game itself. It's identity politics and it's on the face about it not even trying to disguise itself much like Part II.

Left Behind got flak for Ellie's revelation?

I don't remember that at all, and there was nothing shoehorned about it. Most of the responses I saw were delighted by it, and the whole "agenda" accusations came about with the trailer kiss from TLoU 2 (and rightly so). Difference being, Ellie kissing Riley in LB wasn't done to highlight her sexual orientation, it was to punctuate and grow the development and relationship of two characters through it. I think most were completely taken aback and pleasantly surprised by that moment. I know I was.

That ND has shifted the focus from using sexual orientation to further their development as characters into including sexual orientation solely to work down a Leftist checklist to mark off "equality" and "representation" in the medium is the delineation that many (myself included) take issue with, and one that so many others fail to make a distinction on, always predictably coming back with retorts of "homophobia", "privilege", and "bigotry".

Left Behind probably did get backlash but as I understand it, it wasn't that big of a deal but after reading what @lundy86_4 said, it's not her being lesbian that's the problem, it's the fact that they feel the need to shove the idea of her being a lesbian down your throats and that part I can agree with. We knew this in Left Behind and ND could have save that scene when you actually play the game for yourself. But overall, this doesn't bother me and I'm still hype to play it myself this June.

Wasn't a big a deal because it was simple and good. If that dlc sucked you know mofos would blame the lesbian thing. One day these shitty takes will end. It will just be about weather the execution is good or not.

Getting PS5 version

Would buy now if I knew I could play on PS5

Sure, the bolded underlined is the problem, sexual orientation isn't. Yet people who hold an ideological leaning towards progressive ideals are often incapable of not conflating the two. I've made a few at length arguments about this and am not interested in starting another past what I've already stated as nothing's changed from then to now and the leaks are cherry picked and absent greater context, so I'm just going to wait until TLoU 2 drops, play it, and in the meantime watch this present situation evolve before diving back in.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the demographics shown in the TLoU 2 leaks. Anyone who's been paying attention to this studio for the past few years knows this is to be expected. Though having a trans (and while Abby's gender remains speculative at this point, from all appearances, she is the poster-child of a trans woman if I've ever seen it) hunting down two lesbians borne from the motivations of a homo-phobic cult is nigh fucking parody. I'm sorry, it just is. Admittedly, I'm getting some very good laughs out of these leaks if the truth is what they're alluding to.

I'll reserve final judgement until the final product hits. But in the meantime, high entertainment abounds.

So pretty much what it boils down to is that the only way you'll like the story is if you're a SJW who feels like vengeful masculine women need more representation in video games (not talking about Ellie).

I'll pass. But then again I wouldn't play it unless it's on PC anyway.

@MirkoS77:

I'm probably missing something. I think the leaks make the game and story to be very shallow. However the shallowness has nothing to do with the identity stuff. For me its the people beefing and how they are connected from the first game. And how it ends for those characters. In fact the cult seem very absent from the leak just like the er infected to me lol. I'm sure there will be story line there. Is Abby or whatever from the cult? Ellie is gay we know already a growing up story is ofcourse going to involve love interest. The leaks seems to have reduced the cult angle and the people beefing and doing most harm are of these identity representation. I would almost think its those folks who are going to be pissed at how the game might portray them. Just as violent as the rest of us.

Oh boy! Another shoving "idea A, B or C" down your throat and surprise its the sexual orientation issue again. Its really is amazing how disingenuous people are and the mental gymnastics they undergo to hide the rather obvious signs toxic behavior. But, lets continue to pretend that "I am for inclusion BUT they must meet this unspecified criteria that I don't place on anything else." is satisfactory. Now animosity to trans people is acceptable behavior on the forum. Cool. :|

This thread might belong in the political gamers forum at this point. Y’all aren’t even discussing the things in the leaks anymore. Not the “official” ones anyway. TLOU2 seems to be one of, if not the lamest revenge stories ever. And y’all are talking about LGBTQ stuff? This game could be all straight, white, attractive men and the story wouldn’t be any better. The story is stupid and it’s got a bunch of you bozos out here exposing yourselves

From what I'm seeing, the issues people are having is mostly stemming from the disrespectful treatment of the main characters from the first game. To not only have them killed, but to then force the player to play as the one bent on destroying characters they spent many hours with growing and identifying with previously is doing nothing but adding insult to injury. I don't care how great the writing is with Abby's motivations that Druckmann will use to try to justify her decisions, Shakespeare himself would be far in over his head pulling that shit off.

If this is true, it's remarkable how this didn't strike anyone in the team as maybe not the most prudent of creative decisions? I suppose I could see some sense in this choice in exploring the moral ambiguities the first game confronted by a shifting of perspective, but to do so at the expense of forcing players to take an active role against characters they've grown to love and relate to from the previous game, irrespective of the merits and drawbacks of their moral ambiguities, is breathtakingly clueless. Of course that is going to piss people off, as rightly it should.

As for the identity, eh. People have argued to me that there's no agenda at play here. I say there is, and the leaks couldn't have been more predictable (at least from what they're looking to be) in their revelations if they tried. Does it matter in the long-term or is relevant to the game in general? No, it's more about personal vindication than anything else.

Yeah that's is what I'm getting from it. I'm like what is happening why are people going for that angle. In fact its almost like a bait for those stuff and the leak ruined it all for ND. Maybe they will survive if people keep paying attention to that stuff and the shallowness of the leak will still be a surprise and elevate the game lol.

Oh boy! Another predictable circle jerk from those who don't actually wish to argue the specifics but instead believe an argument is to throw disgusting blanket generalizations towards those they disagree with without a point brought up otherwise. There exists a website out there where you will not only have the majority of people dog-pile on me and others like me for my opinions in the attempt to cast them into communal ostrarization, but you can then run off to mommy moderator for a quick ban under the premise of "enabling homophobia" or some such bullshit rationale before the debate even has a chance to begin.

Perhaps that would be more suitable towards your tastes? ResetERA Gamespot isn't, and thank god for that.

Yes there is definitely an agenda, the creator said so himself. He did the presentation about how female characters are represented in games. He roasted Kojima's Quite character (Well Quite was quite something and perhaps the answer is that Buff Maam memes lol). Agenda's don't have to be bad or prevent someone from making good work. He had the agenda from the first game. Your free to hold him up to see if he can create something good.

Your comment is more applicable to yourself then you even realize. :)

@davillain-: As a huge fan of the first game.... you should really read the spoilers.

If I bought the game and got what they gave me I'd be fucking furious. The lesbian stuff is really just obnoxious but not what everyone is raging about.

@MirkoS77: I agree with you bro... you're dead on.

No I do not play shitty movie games designed for non-gamers.

@goldenelementxl: The second playable character is shoehorned to double down on an agenda. And in my 30 years of gaming I have never seen a beloved character treated the way they treat the only relevant male in the game.

Stop acting like you don't see the agenda.

Someone told a young Neil Druckmann that subverting expectations is always good writing, Druckmann took this to heart.

What is your criteria for a character being shoehorned?

I don't see it because it's not there.

1. I argue specifics
2. I don't throw blanket generalizations at people I disagree with without supporting points
3. I don't jump on a dog-piling bandwagons
4. I don't run to the moderators

So I fail to see what applies to me. You are guilty of failing to do 1, 2, and 3, at least for this topic. As for 4, who knows. I've seen you present and support some really good arguments in the past, but this approach you take whenever this topic arises is nothing but ERA-tier toxic Leftist tactics garbage which I think is above you. Making an assertion (usually directed at not the argument, but one's character), not supporting it, and walking away with the inevitable groupies coming in with their congratulatory sycophantic adulations.

I think this is done because either a) you're incapable of making a case (which I don't believe you are), or b) it's much easier to take the path of ignoring the actual argument and attacking the person's character. Sorry man, it doesn't impress, and it doesn't work.

Can you imagine how frustrating it must have been for the other employees to work on his piece of shit? I hope there are repercussions for this, because I expect the sales to be lower than the bosses anticipated.

Not gonna happen and I'm avoiding spoilers until I play the game for myself. I'm already super hype, not gonna kill it not when it's only just a month away from release.

But he also fell in love with Anita Sarkeesian and hey, I ain't mad at him for it lol.

@ezekiel43: I'd love to see some consequences for the terrible way ND treats their employees, I just don't see it happening unfortunately.

@davillain-: I'm 100% with you on Queen Brie, miss me with Anita though lol.

Well am not surprised that you fail to see the application to you because I don't think you can't because you are so vested in your view.

Most of the comments here are in your favor but I am the one dog piling on bandwagons. Let me make this clear, my opinion on any subject occurs independent of what others may think. I don't need people to agree with me. That is how independent thought works. Its alignment with others is simply a coincidence unlike the standard text banter that I typically read from you.

Also stop with this victimization bullshit. I put my general comments because I don't feel the need to address every recycled comment that has been made tirelessly on this forum in the same manner you did in your first comment. You even went as far as telling me I should go somewhere else with my comments. That's how extreme you have become.

"I don't run to the moderators" is clear indication of how petty you have become. Now you just making shit up because you are so bitter.

The irony of it all is that you claim that I am incapable of making a case yet your first plan of action was to do exactly what you accuse me of doing.

People prefer their be consequence for the possible shitty storytelling than the mistreatment of their employees. Its odd how so many want to boycott the game because of these leaks but were more than fine with the mistreatment of the employees.

I understand agendas aren't intrinsically negative, but that they are done for an overall better ideal doesn't automatically mean they are incapable of being harmful or toxic. Just look at ND's past actions and statements by their developers to see just how toxic and hateful they really have become towards those even simply questioning their motives.

Now I'm hearing rumors that ND is suffering a massive turnover rate not only due to crunch issues and payroll disputes, but because the environment within the company has become so intolerant and vindictive to those with even the slightest of disagreements that many can't deal. If that were the case (and played into this leak), would you then agree that this agenda had become detrimental? That's conjecture at this point, but it is a possibility, and is an example of how a seemingly benign agenda on the surface can turn malignant.

But again I'm not going to get too far into it as I had a lengthy discussion a bit back. I'll wait until the full game releases and I've given it a playthrough.

@r-gamer: I agree with you bro... you're dead on.

Thanks man.

Game looks like woke trash.

@i_p_daily: the first one is great what makes you think this one is not?

There is no original thought from you that I've seen, at least on this topic.

Every single time you pop up into a thread like this, dealing with TLoU 2 or anything to do with representation, diversity or equality, it's the same. You do nothing but sit there and claim people entitled, annoyed that their privilege is being encroached upon, their "toxicity", that it's not the "straight white male", and on and on and on in similar vein. When they confront you in elaboration and take time to articulate, it's usually met with a one sentence rebuttal with a :) at the end.

Sorry but no, that's not how original thought works. You don't argue, you're like a billboard.

I present similar arguments as to those I've fronted before, sure, but I will take it in whatever direction the argument, logic and evidence dictates. I am fully willing to shift my position as I've done numerous times, even conceding to users I seriously dislike. You do nothing but sit there and repeat the same thing, because you have no argument aside privilege, entitlement, and appeals to one's character that you believe is the only merit to their argument instead of the argument itself. I've seen it over and over again, and frankly I'm sick of it. Not only because you're capable of better, but because your argument amounts to painting people in a terrible light with NO support.

That tends to annoy me, yes, and if that's what you deem as a suitable contribution then I'm simply highlighting the fact that there are websites out there more receptive to it, alongside the fact that those you disagree with would be banned outright.

Your first sentence can be applied to you but, it only applies to folks who don't share your view. ;)

My first two comments were just about the game. In fact this thread was just about whether or not gamers would purchase the game based on the leaks.

Also, this is first time I call out toxic behavior. Nowhere in my comment that you took issue with had anything to do with being entitled, straight white male or privilege. You are bringing baggage into the conversation. :)

Now you are just ranting about your dislike of my comments not related to the comments in this thread. Another sign of bringing baggage. I would advise that if you don't like my comments your are free to ignore it or you can call it out. Unlike you, I would not recommend you go to another site with views similar to yours nor would I claim you are "running to moderators" because I don't agree with your stance.

If you want to specifically address a comment I have made you are free to do that, but don't spend all this time being a victim to my "harsh" words and how I am painting you (despite no specific person was called) as a terrible person etc. Simply don't do the things you claim I am guilty of.

Also, where are you getting this nonsense that people who disagree with me would be banned outright? That is unfounded and a false claim. It is also an issue that you should take with the moderators and not myself.

ERA. Given the nature of your "argument" when it comes to this subject, I'm hard pressed to believe you are left at as loss as to what website I'm referring to when they ban people for so much as breathing in the wrong direction of the hive mind. Sorry, I'm not buying you playing ignorant, especially after I stated "Gamespot isn't ResetERA, and thank god for that".

As for baggage, your first sentence of your first post states,

"Oh boy! Another shoving "idea A, B or C" down your throat and surprise its the sexual orientation issue again".

You don't want to bring in baggage? Then don't allude to it in your very first sentence, act indignant when someone follows suit in addressing it, and then have the nerve to blame them for what you did. You introduced baggage here, baggage that encompasses all those words you're now conveniently attempting to distance yourself from. I'm around the boards and I keep track of various discussions, of which I was the main proponent furthering the points of which you disagree with, so please, cut the cute act in pretending you weren't referencing that specific exchange (which you were a part of IIRC), or at least that it wasn't factored into your reply.

Well anyone who had read the leaks are shitting all over it. I haven't read the leaks as anything ND does is just boring shit mixed with cutscenes for me, see UC4.

So you're asking the wrong person, maybe read the leaks which ND have confirmed to be true (well they haven't said they aren't true) and you might find the story is dogshit, and when ND prioritise story above all else and its garbage, well not much left to it really.

Have fun :)

I haven't visited Resetera. I only know it exists from folks like yourself. Obviously you visit this website. Just like SJW. I only know of that term and the actions of these phantom folks by people like yourself. You can believe whatever you want with regards to this, that is your prerogative. This reminds me of a student of mine who continuously bitch about Resetera and Tumblr and I always wonder, "why do you go there if it so awful". I guess you suffer from the same problem.

Facts are that is NOT my first post, its not even my second, third or fourth post in this thread but my fifth. So, you already on the road of error.

There is nothing in that comment that was false. That was literally what the thread transform into. It made you upset. This why we are having this discourse, because my "first" comment made you upset. The fact is pretty clear and you have also clearly stated it, you brought your baggage of my previous comments in other threads in to this. Now you are trying to skirt around that and claim I brought baggage which is objectively false. I am not distancing myself from anything I have stated in this thread. So, please don't imply anything of such because you were in error.

The fact is my comment literally had nothing do with you. But for some dumb reason you felt targeted (baggage). Just so you know that my comment was aimed at whoever stated that agenda was being pushed down their throat and the casual disrespecting of trans people. Both are factual behaviors that transpired in this thread. Its not an argument, its a clear and explicit calling out of behavior.

After all of this this nonsensical back and forth, you have yet to address anything specific to my actual comment.

@Pedro: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sausageroll.com.au/entertainment/games/naughty-dog-made-female-characters-less-feminine-to-be-trans-friendly/%3famp

Looks like crunch wasn't why they leaked it. People had concerns with the way the game was going and anyone who spoke out against it was shut down.

That's not a positive environment for a dev team and yes I'd say it would be better for the studio if Neil Druckman was gone. Hes running it into the ground.

@r-gamer: Damn, the game panders so hard even the dev team says so. Gotta be careful with saying the truth here, because some people get offended by that accusation and don't understand why pandering media is toxic media.