Will the next gen have "CheckerBoarding 2.0"?

Can your eyes actually tell a difference? I have pretty damn good vision and mine can't.

Don't have a Pro but I've watched this both on a small monitor 1 feet away and a big tv and I find it way, way more obvious on a large screen - 5 feet away. Many things shimmering on CB.

11:01

https://youtu.be/9ggro8CyZK4?t=664

Makes me wonder if next gen will have much improved cb with also help from dedicated hardware for it. Not as good as Nvidia's DLSS 2.0 or 3.0 but much better than current cb.

Probably. As powerful as you make the hardware there’s always going to be devs who try to push beyond it.

Sony has a patent for DLSS like technology possible for PS5. Checkerboarding may be on its way out. https://wccftech.com/playstation-5-dlss-like-image-reconstruction/

For some reason I see MS encouraging devs to brute force 4K while Sony will push checkerboard 2.0. It’s what they’re doing with the X and pro respectively.

Checkerboard raytracing.

I thought about that as well but I wonder if MS too will have some dedicated h/w for upscaling aka "CB 2.0". It might help for later games. If it can be more efficient regardless of res, it might be there. Maybe it's already part of RDNA 2 so Sony and MS didn't really have to request much specialization for it.

Maybe that'll happen. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong but I think DF thought about that on their PS5 RT trailer analysis because the reflections are fuzzy.

God I hope not, get rid of putrid reconstruction.

It will.

It will probably be a staple tech down the road. Maybe a major part in mid-gen hardware.

Ok, but then leave it off high end (PC, PS5, Xbox Series X) and keep it on mid to low end (PS4 pro, Xbox One, low end PC)

I for one don't really care. I have seen games for both PS5 and XSX and they both look fantastic (for the most part). Add in lightning fast load times and seamless transitions with a push for better framerates and I don't care what you want to call it...

PS5 will definitely struggle to do real 4k with a 9TF card.

@BlackShirt20: I think it is 10.3 or something like that.

I think they'll keep it and target higher res. Eventually, even lower end gpus might feature it. It's just tech that helps push image quality and maybe worth the die space. We'll see what happens though.

Maybe later on, regular CUs would be good enough for it.

I actually hope PS5 doesn't push resolution but other graphics. Push higher res later with midgen.

Some professionals already agree that real 4K is a waste for now at least. Leave upressing and higher hfr standards to pc.

It wasn't checker board ray tracing it was just running at 1/4 the resolution of the game its why the shadows and reflections were fuzzy.

@rzxv04: my guess is that MS is chasing the Native 4K narrative harder than Sony which is why their gpu is a bit beefier. If they had to fit dedicated hardware for reconstruction, they chip would probably be really expensive.

Only fugly WeakSauce BS Jive needs that trickery. :P

@Telekill: Believe me, there is huge difference between Death Stranding in 1920x2160p checkerboard 4K and a native 4K Death Stranding.

@Zero_epyon: For the Series X, Microsoft is encouraging 60FPS not "bruteforcing" 4K.

But they always seem to throw in 4K just before they say 60fps most of the time.

@Mozelleple112: No offense, but I generally only believe my own eyes anymore.

I dont know if it will be checkerboarding 2.0 and i dont think either console will have specialised hardware added (though MS did mention something about ML capabilities. Could just be a library in the dev kit that can accelerate some ML tasks using compute units).

but image reconstruction and upscaling will see a lot of attention from all camps next gen.

Neither console appears to have an AMD equivalent of Tensor cores (whether AMD even has something similar under development is unclear) so the focus will be on using compute units (and the SSDs from both consoles of course :P) to do it.

Tensor cores are one solution. Chances are they are the best solution currently available for this problem. but it's highly unlikely that they are the only solution.

then there is always the question of nintendo. they do work with nvidia (for now). they could have tensor cores in their next console/handheld/VR headset/ghetto blaster/robot. hard to say with nintendo. it always is.

@Telekill: That's fine. It also depends on how close you are sitting to your display. All my friends sit 2.5 - 3.5 metres away from the 55", and that difference and size there is almost no difference between 1440p and 4K.

I sit 1.5m from my 55" and will sit 1.8m when I swap it for a 65" later this year. From that difference 4K and sub 4K is night and day.

Me either and getting that close to a TV to tell, burns the eyes..lol

I guess that depends on what kind and size of hardware that would be. I doubt it's as huge as NV's solution but we'll see.

Some are saying that compute might be better since at least it could have more variety of uses, not just cb.

I don't think Pro has specialized or dedicated hardware for CB rendering. Almost all the refernces to it are misquotes taken out of context.

Even the Decima engine's own presentation talked about doing it on shader cores on Pro.

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/id-buffer-and-dr-fp16.60209/

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/sony-id-buffer-spawn.61364/page-3

Seems available on both 1x and pro.

duh, suckerboarding for console n00bs.

Consoles won't have anything like proper DLSS. They don't have tensor cores.

@wizard: dlss these nuts, nvidia can suck it inferior image quality to amd.

@ps5rulez: What does that video have to do with DLSS?

@fedor: amd has better solution.

@ps5rulez: No, they don't.

@fedor: umm amd always has better solutions, example freesync won over gsync and nvidia had to adopt amd's open source shit lol.

Yet they're always behind in performance and features. AMD doesn't have an answer for tensor cores or DLSS.

Most likely.

They could still have an inferior version of hardware acceleration for a different but generally inferior to DLSS 2.0, -upscaling technique. Some say that regular compute already built in to ps5/sx might be good enough.

@fedor: nvidia can never compete with amd on a performance level, nvidia can never offer a more powerful card @ the same price point, only way you can get more performance from an nvidia card is when the card cost x3 as much.

any true apples to apples price/performance comparison nvidia is actually behind amd.

i dunno if you realize but amd is creating an RDNA2 ecosystem with ps5/XSX/pc.

it's like saying dude my supercar outperforms your corvette, but i had to spend 1 million dollars on it, instead of 80k that u would a corvette.

@rzxv04: DLSS is AI based and Nvidia has AI specific compute units with tons of training.

I really don't see how consoles are going to implement anything of the sort. Might as well go checkerboard.

@ps5rulez: Lol, ok dude.

@fedor: 5700xt outperforms the 2070 and it outperforms the 2070 super in some games.

5700 xt is 350 dollars.

2070 is 400 dollars

2070 super is 499 dollars.

like i said nvidia can never offer better performance @ the same price brackets.

the only way your gonna outperform an amd card with nvidia is when you spend hundreds more, they're garbage.

amd has ARTX employee's who worked @ sgi who did the cgi in movies like jurassic park 1993, they're the pioneer's of the video card comes down to it, amd has superior engineers to nvidia plus nvidia has to use image quality hacks to gain fps also lol.

It's actually funny how upset you are about Nvidia having superior performance and features.

@fedor: OMG I SPENT 1 MILLION ON A SUPERCAR TO OUTPERFORM A 80 THOUSAND DOLLAR CAR IS THE KINDA SHIT YOU ARE SAYING FOOL.

remember this true apples to apples price/performance comparison nvidia can never outperform amd aka ATI it's a fact of life.

proof nvidia is garbage

https://techreport.com/news/5135/nvidia-caught-cheating-again-in-3dmark03/

they've been using driver hacks sacrificing image quality for higher scores in benchmarks for 20 years lol and still do it today fool.

Maybe the dumbest post I've ever seen on this forum. Nvidia has far better performance and features, deal with it, the rest of the world has.

How ignorant are you console gamer's?... People use DLSS on a RTX 2080 Ti to get CURRENT ray traced and NON ray traced games running at 60FPS!

But oh wait you guy's think a 12 TFLOP GPU in the same architecture as a 10.4 TFLOP GPU is going to offer a drastic performance difference?...

The PS5 and XSX will share the same resolution and framerate's the XSX version of the game will just have SLIGHTLY higher graphical settings and maybe a more stable frame rate in GPU bound games and I gaurentee you BOTH will have checker boarding at some point, just look at the reception for a 4K/60FPS game... OH its last gen?... Well enjoy your 30FPS 1440p checkerboarded ray traced games dropping to 25FPS.

They'll both use it. And I'm fine with that, games already look great. Use those resources elsewhere.

None of them says there's specialized hardware that specifically accelerates it. It's all generic and all GPUs feature those things. Underlying implementations may differ but then there's no 'standard' CBR. It's an umbrella term for variety of reconstruction techniques.

It's just Sony gave it a marketing spin and popularized that term. Devs were using many of these techniques far earlier on base consoles.