Will Sony screw up PS5 like they did PS3?

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jcrame10

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#1  Edited By jcrame10
Member since 2014 • 6302 Posts

The PS4 has dominated the market for the past 6 years much how the PS2 did. The success of PS2 lead to Sony getting very arrogant and thinking consumers would simply buy the next PlayStation no matter what.

The PS3 offered blu Ray- at the time, new tech that most people didn’t see the value in and were happy with standard DVDs. Because of the tech in PS3 it had a ridiculous price of $600.

I know some people will say “but blu Ray players used to be 1,000!”. That’s fine but when you’re buying a gaming machine you expect it to be reasonably priced for its purpose- to play games. Most people nowadays would feel that way and that’s how people in 2006 felt. PS3 was basically a laughing stock it’s first couple of years (who remembers the Wii vs PS3 spoof with the girls?) and didn’t start getting respect and momentum in the media and sales until 2008-2009 when quality exclusives were continuously releasing.

So, long thread short, do you think Sony will get arrogant with PS5 similar to how they did with PS3? Will we see a ridiculous price tag? “Unnecessary features” for the time of release? Will Sony think gamers are sheep who will blindly believe and buy whatever it is they produce at whatever price? Discuss.

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Telekill

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#2 Telekill
Member since 2003 • 12061 Posts

It was the first year (essentially the launch) of the PS3 that was really rocky. The price tag and the lack of games really hurt the system.

Fall of 2007 started to get better for them with releases of Uncharted and Assassin's Creed.

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Pedro

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#3 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 70268 Posts

No idea. Its best to take a wait and see approach because it can go either way. With that said, I find it awfully difficult to see them mess up. It would have to be utter stupidity in management for that to happen.

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SecretPolice

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#4 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 44260 Posts

Nah, I don't see them messing up next gen.

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jcrame10

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#5  Edited By jcrame10
Member since 2014 • 6302 Posts

@Telekill: I’d argue PS3 didnt really take off until MGS4. There was even a special PS3 bundle with it.

Games like Assassins Creed, Devil May Cry 4, GTA 4, Tekken 5 also went multiplat (due to Xbox 360 skyrocketing in sales) when they were planned as PS3 exclusives and that hurt Sony’s perception.

The initial PS3 years had a few good games (Motorstorm, Uncharted, Resistance, Ratchet and Clank Tools of Destuction) but things started really picking up in 2008. Quality exclusive after quality exclusive until the end of the gen.

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tormentos

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#6 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33784 Posts

According to Dynamitecop alt sony already screw up,based on cross play.

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Telekill

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#7 Telekill
Member since 2003 • 12061 Posts

@jcrame10: The real turn around was the rebranding when the slim released with the new logo and packaging. Was that 2008 or 2009?

I hadn't seen a rebranding like that since the Sega Genesis 2 release.

Both were fantastic for each system at their time.

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tormentos

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#8 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33784 Posts

@jcrame10 said:

@Telekill: I’d argue PS3 didnt really take off until MGS4. There was even a special PS3 bundle with it.

Games like Assassins Creed, Devil May Cry 4, GTA 4, Tekken 5 also went multiplat (due to Xbox 360 skyrocketing in sales) when they were planned as PS3 exclusives and that hurt Sony’s perception.

The initial PS3 years had a few good games (Motorstorm, Uncharted, Resistance, Ratchet and Clank Tools of Destuction) but things started really picking up in 2008. Quality exclusive after quality exclusive until the end of the gen.

That is factually incorrect.

Non of those games were planned as exclusives,aside i think from tekken.

Tekken 5 wasn't on 360,Tekken 5 was a PS2 game then ported to PS3,in fact GTA wasn't exclusive already before the 360 landed.

You are forgetting Warhawk,also let me remind you that when MGS4 hit the PS3 wasn't even 2 years old,basically the PS3 was starting it has 1 year and 7 months basically in the market,that same year it also landed Little Big Planet which landed a 95% score on meta.

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jcrame10

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#9 jcrame10
Member since 2014 • 6302 Posts

@tormentos: maybe I meant tekken 6, not 5. I don’t really follow those games. But AC and DMC4 were definitely planned as PS3 exclusives, there was even a petition in outrage when DMC4 was announced as going multiplat.

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jcrame10

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#10 jcrame10
Member since 2014 • 6302 Posts

@tormentos: GTA 4:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/GTA/comments/1dqqv2/can_you_believe_that_gta_iv_was_almost_a_ps3/

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/microsoft-paid-75-million-to-stop-gtaiv-ps3-exclusivity/1100-6262370/

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jaydan

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#11 jaydan
Member since 2015 • 8466 Posts

Gee I dunno. Let me get back to you once I return from the future.

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Bread_or_Decide

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#12 Bread_or_Decide
Member since 2007 • 29761 Posts

The winner of the gen always fuqs it up next gen. It's almost a rule at this point.

But don't worry, it's a good thing, always leads to better things later on.

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Bread_or_Decide

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#13 Bread_or_Decide
Member since 2007 • 29761 Posts

@jaydan said:

Gee I dunno. Let me get back to you once I return from the future.

Will Dolphins be our masters?

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jaydan

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#14 jaydan
Member since 2015 • 8466 Posts
@Bread_or_Decide said:
@jaydan said:

Gee I dunno. Let me get back to you once I return from the future.

Will Dolphins be our masters?

Dolphins left. They said "so long, and thanks for all the fish."

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knight-k

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#15 knight-k
Member since 2005 • 2596 Posts

@SecretPolice said:

Nah, I don't see them messing up next gen.

Indeed, MS will probably mess up the next Xbox like last gen.

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SecretPolice

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#16 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 44260 Posts

@knight-k said:
@SecretPolice said:

Nah, I don't see them messing up next gen.

Indeed, MS will probably mess up the next Xbox like last gen.

That's just meanness. lol :P

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knight-k

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#17 knight-k
Member since 2005 • 2596 Posts

@SecretPolice said:
@knight-k said:
@SecretPolice said:

Nah, I don't see them messing up next gen.

Indeed, MS will probably mess up the next Xbox like last gen.

That's just meanness. lol :P

Sorry lemming friend, I sometimes forget your kind is dying out on this forum. You are a protected species.

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TheEroica

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#18 TheEroica  Moderator
Member since 2009 • 22895 Posts

@Telekill: I believe the first AAAE ps3 got was MGS4 which released in June of 2008.

The first couple years of the ps3 were mighty rocky....they also had several floppy new titles like Haze and Lair... They had resistance and a 600 dollar blur ray machine in a world that still hadn't come close to hitting good market saturation with hdtvs...

I'd argue in the end playstation 3 was well on track for a stellar ps4, especially with free online and ps+ doling out great games, but it felt more like a year and a half to 2 years before they finally got a real win.

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BigBadBully

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#19 BigBadBully
Member since 2006 • 2367 Posts

It will be really hard to mess up. Only screw up will be if they dont do BC and dont make inprovements to PSN/PSnow and developing some multiplayer games. Plus make some fun games. I enjoyed games like God of War 4, Spiderman but after completing them its done. Sony needs more games like Twisted Metal, Warhawk, Motorstorm, Socom, Resistance. Games that were simply fun and that you could always go back to and play with friends/randoms.

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jaydan

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#20 jaydan
Member since 2015 • 8466 Posts
@TheEroica said:

@Telekill: I believe the first AAAE ps3 got was MGS4 which released in June of 2008.

The first couple years of the ps3 were mighty rocky....they also had several floppy new titles like Haze and Lair... They had resistance and a 600 dollar blur ray machine in a world that still hadn't come close to hitting good market saturation with hdtvs...

I'd argue in the end playstation 3 was well on track for a stellar ps4, especially with free online and ps+ doling out great games, but it felt more like a year and a half to 2 years before they finally got a real win.

Let's not forget PS3 had blatantly inferior versions of 3rd-party games through its entire cycle.

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SecretPolice

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#21 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 44260 Posts

@knight-k said:
@SecretPolice said:
@knight-k said:
@SecretPolice said:

Nah, I don't see them messing up next gen.

Indeed, MS will probably mess up the next Xbox like last gen.

That's just meanness. lol :P

Sorry lemming friend, I sometimes forget your kind is dying out on this forum. You are a protected species.

Lolol

:P

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Bread_or_Decide

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#22 Bread_or_Decide
Member since 2007 • 29761 Posts

@Telekill said:

@jcrame10: The real turn around was the rebranding when the slim released with the new logo and packaging. Was that 2008 or 2009?

I hadn't seen a rebranding like that since the Sega Genesis 2 release.

Both were fantastic for each system at their time.

PS3 saved its own life and this was one of the moves that did it.

But man, that $600 PS3 with built in BC for all previous systems, was godly stuff.

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Bread_or_Decide

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#23 Bread_or_Decide
Member since 2007 • 29761 Posts

@jaydan said:
@TheEroica said:

@Telekill: I believe the first AAAE ps3 got was MGS4 which released in June of 2008.

The first couple years of the ps3 were mighty rocky....they also had several floppy new titles like Haze and Lair... They had resistance and a 600 dollar blur ray machine in a world that still hadn't come close to hitting good market saturation with hdtvs...

I'd argue in the end playstation 3 was well on track for a stellar ps4, especially with free online and ps+ doling out great games, but it felt more like a year and a half to 2 years before they finally got a real win.

Let's not forget PS3 had blatantly inferior versions of 3rd-party games through its entire cycle.

Funny trying to watch people re-write history on the PS3. I loved mine from launch but my goodness, what a disaster of a launch and very hard first few years.

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jaydan

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#24  Edited By jaydan
Member since 2015 • 8466 Posts
@Bread_or_Decide said:
@jaydan said:
@TheEroica said:

@Telekill: I believe the first AAAE ps3 got was MGS4 which released in June of 2008.

The first couple years of the ps3 were mighty rocky....they also had several floppy new titles like Haze and Lair... They had resistance and a 600 dollar blur ray machine in a world that still hadn't come close to hitting good market saturation with hdtvs...

I'd argue in the end playstation 3 was well on track for a stellar ps4, especially with free online and ps+ doling out great games, but it felt more like a year and a half to 2 years before they finally got a real win.

Let's not forget PS3 had blatantly inferior versions of 3rd-party games through its entire cycle.

Funny trying to watch people re-write history on the PS3. I loved mine from launch but my goodness, what a disaster of a launch and very hard first few years.

Yeah seriously. I had the PS3 last gen and if you thought about playing Bayonetta on that system, that was your ticket to not enjoying such a game. 3rd-party developers only started to grasp development on the system towards the end of the gen, and yet most devs found the PS3's development kit to be a massive pain in the ass.

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Bread_or_Decide

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#25  Edited By Bread_or_Decide
Member since 2007 • 29761 Posts

@BigBadBully said:

It will be really hard to mess up. Only screw up will be if they dont do BC and dont make inprovements to PSN/PSnow and developing some multiplayer games. Plus make some fun games. I enjoyed games like God of War 4, Spiderman but after completing them its done. Sony needs more games like Twisted Metal, Warhawk, Motorstorm, Socom, Resistance. Games that were simply fun and that you could always go back to and play with friends/randoms.

Nah it's really easy actually. Just ask the SNES, PS2, Xbox 360, and Wii. They know all about how to blow a good lead. (N64, PS3, Xbox one, Wii U)

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Pedro

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#26 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 70268 Posts

@knight-k said:

Sorry lemming friend, I sometimes forget your kind is dying out on this forum. You are a protected species.

Funny you say that because Sony fannies are buffing their presence with all dem Alts. :)

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jcrame10

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#27 jcrame10
Member since 2014 • 6302 Posts

@Bread_or_Decide: yup, PS3 had inferior multiplats from 06 to maybe even 2010.

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Jackamomo

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#28 Jackamomo
Member since 2017 • 2157 Posts

Most consoles last about 10 years so PS4 still has four if not 7 or more years of life in it so not particularly relevant.

Even if it did. So what? There is no difference whatsoever between Sony and Microsoft when it comes to their approach to game development and publishing.

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PAL360

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#29  Edited By PAL360
Member since 2007 • 30574 Posts

I really hope not, PS4 is a fantastic gaming console. I prefer to believe that Sony did learn their lesson.

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Telekill

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#30 Telekill
Member since 2003 • 12061 Posts

@jcrame10: Wasn't the multiplat issue because MS had paid a couple devs to botch the PS3 versions coupled with more difficult programming on the Cell chip? I've heard of both being responsible and only give the MS theory any weight because I could easily see them doing it.

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Telekill

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#31 Telekill
Member since 2003 • 12061 Posts

I keep forgetting the second part of the topic...

I don't think PS5 will be botched as bad as PS3 was. I feel Sony can still remember the pain of stumbling face first into the pavement and that it was their decision to be consumer friendly with PS4 that helped make the current Playstation successful.

I could be wrong of course, but I hope not.

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jcrame10

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#32 jcrame10
Member since 2014 • 6302 Posts

@Telekill: many devs didn’t want to develop for both PS3 and 360 cuz PS3 was so much more complex. I think it was when they realized it was easier to develop PS3 then port to 360 there started to be more multiplats

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Basinboy

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#33 Basinboy
Member since 2003 • 14502 Posts

Never say never. But it won’t be in the same respect, not with Cerny heading the architectural design of the system (but I miss the buffoonery of Kutaragi, what a legend).

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#34 Grey_Eyed_Elf
Member since 2011 • 7970 Posts

Nothing really to screw up in terms of hardware... Aside from the IPC boost which is needed the GPU won't be ground breaking because Navi won't be ground breaking. It will be a 4K 30FPS console that is capable of doing 60FPS with lower resolutions or dynamic resolution scaling for games that require it, graphics won't take a huge leap over what we currently have either not for another 3-4 years.

It will be the most boring generation of hardware BUT it hopefully with games like Elder Scrolls 6 it will a great generation of games.

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deactivated-60c3d23d2738e

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#35 deactivated-60c3d23d2738e
Member since 2009 • 3934 Posts
@Grey_Eyed_Elf said:

Nothing really to screw up in terms of hardware... Aside from the IPC boost which is needed the GPU won't be ground breaking because Navi won't be ground breaking. It will be a 4K 30FPS console that is capable of doing 60FPS with lower resolutions or dynamic resolution scaling for games that require it, graphics won't take a huge leap over what we currently have either not for another 3-4 years.

It will be the most boring generation of hardware BUT it hopefully with games like Elder Scrolls 6 it will a great generation of games.

Finally someone who knows something.

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Bread_or_Decide

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#36 Bread_or_Decide
Member since 2007 • 29761 Posts

@jcrame10 said:

@Bread_or_Decide: yup, PS3 had inferior multiplats from 06 to maybe even 2010.

I tried to preach the word of warhawk and resistance 1. Alas, gamers would not hear of it.

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#37  Edited By BoxRekt
Member since 2019 • 2425 Posts

PS3 was a screw up?

And still managed to have a more impressive library of exclusive games than and xbox console ever made?

Checking Gamespot scores:

  • MGS4: 10/10 GOTY
  • Uncharted 2 Among Theives: 9.5
  • Killzone 2: 9.0
  • Ninja Gaiden Sigma: 9.0
  • Little Big Planet: 9.0
  • Infamous: 9.0
  • God of War 3: 9.0
  • Resistance 2: 9.0
  • Little Big Planet 2: 9.0
  • MLB The Show 09: 9.0
  • Ni No Kuni: 9.0
  • Uncharted 3: 9.0
  • Guacamelee: 9.0
  • Beyond: Two Souls: 9.0
  • The Last of Us: 9.0
  • Demon's Souls: 9.0 GOTY

This was PS3's AAA library before even adding in it's AA and indie level games. Comparing that to Xbox One's generation/

I wouldn't mind a "screw up" of that caliber.

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deactivated-5d78760d7d740

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#38 deactivated-5d78760d7d740
Member since 2009 • 16386 Posts

Of course not, they're going to use architecture similar to PC and they saw how appealing the $400-500 price point is.

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#39 robert_sparkes
Member since 2018 • 7285 Posts

Very doubtful Sony will mess it up they obviously learnt a lot from the PS3 launch.

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#40 osan0
Member since 2004 • 17870 Posts

i dont think so. i think they have learned their lesson well from the PS3. there is also less incentive for them to make bad hardware decisions.

back when the PS3 was being designed sony had their fingers in many more markets. They wanted to get at the server space, they wanted more control over movie and game distribution....a lot of vested interests at sony wanted in on the PS action for non game related stuff. the PS2 was also a massive hit and that, from a hardware standpoint, was poor. developers hated it. but it sold obscenely well so why not take the same approach on the hardware front?

the PS3 was a trojan horse for other markets and tech from other divisions at sony and in the end and thats what hurt it. developers were barely even consulted on its design. they were just presented with a box and told "thats the PS3....make games for that".

today sony are not in the CPU game and blu-ray won the format war but....meh. they have no incentive to put in obscure hardware in an odd architecture to try to get developers from other sectors interested or try and push the market a certain way in non gaming sectors.

i think the PS5 will be another example of sony being very good at doing sony's thing. it'll be a PS4 2.0. their biggest risk is they get blindsided by an unexpected big hit and the market loses interest in what sony has to offer.

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Ten_Pints

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#41  Edited By Ten_Pints
Member since 2014 • 4072 Posts

I think Sony can get away with selling a more expensive base model system this time because they own the market and can use enhanced PS4 games as a value proposition.

They don't need to sell massive amounts to begin with, they just need to continue denying Microsoft marketshare.

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#42 kingtito
Member since 2003 • 11775 Posts

@jcrame10 said:

The PS4 has dominated the market for the past 6 years much how the PS2 did. The success of PS2 lead to Sony getting very arrogant and thinking consumers would simply buy the next PlayStation no matter what.

The PS3 offered blu Ray- at the time, new tech that most people didn’t see the value in and were happy with standard DVDs. Because of the tech in PS3 it had a ridiculous price of $600.

I know some people will say “but blu Ray players used to be 1,000!”. That’s fine but when you’re buying a gaming machine you expect it to be reasonably priced for its purpose- to play games. Most people nowadays would feel that way and that’s how people in 2006 felt. PS3 was basically a laughing stock it’s first couple of years (who remembers the Wii vs PS3 spoof with the girls?) and didn’t start getting respect and momentum in the media and sales until 2008-2009 when quality exclusives were continuously releasing.

So, long thread short, do you think Sony will get arrogant with PS5 similar to how they did with PS3? Will we see a ridiculous price tag? “Unnecessary features” for the time of release? Will Sony think gamers are sheep who will blindly believe and buy whatever it is they produce at whatever price? Discuss.

I don't think that's accurate. Most of the early adopters purchased PS3s based off the cheap BR price the time, at least according to what cows have been saying for years. It was the cheapest BR player on the market and it's sales continued well into it's lifespan.

Other than that, they royally screwed the pooch with the PS3.

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deactivated-5d1e44cf96229

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#43 deactivated-5d1e44cf96229
Member since 2015 • 2814 Posts

History has shown time and time again that companies tend to get arrogant, complacent, and more anti-consumer after being in the lead for a while which eventually leads to them screwing up and giving an opening for hungry competitors.

I've definitely noticed Sony becoming more arrogant and anti-consumer over the last few years, so it would not surprise me to see them make some big screwups with the PS5 launch.

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pdogg93

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#44 pdogg93
Member since 2015 • 1849 Posts

PS3 was a fantastic console. I remember having a fat PS3, watching blu rays and having wifi. It delivered true uncompressed audio to my 5.1 surround sound and the sound difference was noticeable in games.

Meanwhile the 360 didn’t come with wifi, HDMI or a harddrive. And to top it off, had RROD.

Ms consoles have always been pieces of shit, only ones worthwhile have been the OG and the bone x.

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#45 The-A-Baum
Member since 2015 • 1370 Posts

To me this seems simple enough. Just make a more powerful System that can do 4k 60fps. And basically keep doing what they are doing.

But there have been some moves in PS management. Jim Ryan is now EU head of Sony interactive (The guy who said "no one wants to play old games") as well as others. Layden also said they will be making Less Games yet with bigger budgets and Dev time. Also downplayed E3 because they will have less to show, fans be damned. Might cost them some of those 3rd party deals that Sony heavily relied on at PS4 launch.

Lot's of other questions, are the upcoming games we have heard about for years going to be PS5 only or crossplay? Do You have to buy it twice? Will PS5 have reserved space for PSVR built in even if I don't want it?

The arrogant Sony has clearly returned, and even though it seems like this would be really hard to screw up, One never knows, does one?I also think it's a bad move to leave their fanbase in an information vacuum for so long. No E3 means all the way to the end of the year for anything.

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knight-k

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#46 knight-k
Member since 2005 • 2596 Posts

@boxrekt said:

PS3 was a screw up?

And still managed to have a more impressive library of exclusive games than and xbox console ever made?

Checking Gamespot scores:

  • MGS4: 10/10 GOTY
  • Uncharted 2 Among Theives: 9.5
  • Killzone 2: 9.0
  • Ninja Gaiden Sigma: 9.0
  • Little Big Planet: 9.0
  • Infamous: 9.0
  • God of War 3: 9.0
  • Resistance 2: 9.0
  • Little Big Planet 2: 9.0
  • MLB The Show 09: 9.0
  • Ni No Kuni: 9.0
  • Uncharted 3: 9.0
  • Guacamelee: 9.0
  • Beyond: Two Souls: 9.0
  • The Last of Us: 9.0
  • Demon's Souls: 9.0 GOTY

This was PS3's AAA library before even adding in it's AA and indie level games. Comparing that to Xbox One's generation/

I wouldn't mind a "screw up" of that caliber.

Yup, funny even with PS's "weakest" gen, it's still better than 360 or wii.

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Archangel3371

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#47 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 44493 Posts

Well Sony is a corporation and since corporations simply can’t help themselves it’s entirely possible for them to screw up with the PS5.

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Son-Goku7523

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#48 Son-Goku7523
Member since 2019 • 955 Posts

Unlikely.

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#49 deactivated-6068afec1b77d
Member since 2017 • 2539 Posts

No, I don't think so.

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#50  Edited By jcrame10
Member since 2014 • 6302 Posts

@boxrekt: everyone knows the PS3 has an amazing exclusive library. We’re talking about the launch of the PS3 and the first year or two.