Will devs even be able to use all that flops on the XSX?

Will the developers even be able to use up all that flops for their games? If i recall the XSX isn't as dev friendly as the PS5. I only see exclusives games reaching it or coming close to it.....but MS isn't known for their console pushing exclusives. Just look at the Xbox one X......nothing takes full advantage of that console. And i don't see 3rd party devs really trying hard to figure out the hardware, etc.

Sony seems to have developed the PS5 with little to NO bottlenecks...the same can't be said about XSX, apparently.

Thoughts?

What?

@fastnslowww: What's the XSX's bottleneck?

The first thought I got was that you had little thought when making this thread LOL.

Those 9.2TF still stings I see, don't worry mate it will be alright :)

I don't see why not,the only thing I see that could cause of problem is the split ram speed,and even that would not hold much the console in my eyes.

Reminder, RTX 2080 Super has 48 CU (FP32) wide equivalent.

For RDNA 2, Raytracing will place a heavy burden on RT cores and shader cores due to missing Tensor cores for Raytracing denoise pass.

MS has platform exclusives since MS owns both WIndows 10 and Xbox platforms.

The current Xbox = semi-customized Windows 10 with "garden walled" and fix hardware target.

Well, going by the crytek interview.

"While TFLOPs are important, reaching peak performance on the Series X will only be achievable under the most ideal and theoretical conditions.If all of the components inside Microsoft’s console can work together efficiently alongside the GPU, the series X can hit its peak performance of 12TFLOPs, but this just doesn’t seem to be possible."

https://wccftech.com/ps5-better-console-xsx-bottleneck-crytek/

Elaborate please........better yet, simplify that statment......

Well, the good news is MS is trying. They have bought up a lot of studios, let's see how that turns out

I think people tend to be short sighted. Xbox One was the only MS console that didn't feature a true graphical powerhouse.

360 had Gears, Mass Effect and Forza, OG Xbox had Morrowind, Black, Doom 3.

The industry seems to have faith in them so I will to ...for now

Series X us built very differently from XB1

RDNA 2 seems to be missing NVIDIA RTX's hardware Tensor cores hence raytracing de-noise pass is performed on shader cores.

@fastnslowww: That interview is updated with a retraction and the dev has been removed... Going to need a better source.

@i_p_daily said:

@fastnslowww said:

Will the developers even be able to use up all that flops for their games? If i recall the XSX isn't as dev friendly as the PS5. I only see exclusives games reaching it or coming close to it.....but MS isn't known for their console pushing exclusives. Just look at the Xbox one X......nothing takes full advantage of that console. And i don't see 3rd party devs really trying hard to figure out the hardware, etc.

Sony seems to have developed the PS5 with little to NO bottlenecks...the same can't be said about XSX, apparently.

Thoughts?

The first thought I got was that you had little thought when making this thread LOL.

Those 9.2TF still stings I see, don't worry mate it will be alright :)

Mate i'm not worried. The PS5 will most likely be pushing better quality games.....Going by Sony's established and talented 1st party studio's/exclusives. I will go as far as saying the PS5 exlusives will look better than the XSX ones due to the easy to develop for hardware and unique architecture. The gap isn't that big my friend.

boxrekt, is that you?

Of course.

The statement has been retracted and the developer has been removed. Crytek has a history dissing Microsoft!

AGainst Ali Salehi's DirectX argument.

The argument from EA DICE.

Reminder, EA DICE is a co-designer for AMD's Mantle API which spawns the Vulkan API.

Nah, I don't have a splintered Ego.

We simply don't know, but they will for sure use more than 10.28tflops.

I see what you did there.

XSX has less bottlenecks than PS5.

Bandwidth being the biggest bottleneck in every console since forever.

XSX will be dev friendly just like every single Xbox console ever was.

Unlike PS2 and PS3 which were straight disasters for developers. Sony finally learned on their 4th try how to make a console that is not a nightmare to develop on. You go Sony, it only took you 19 years to finally make a console developer friendly.

Link or i call BS.....

Link about what?

The specs are out there.

Devs claiming the XSX has less bottlenecks....from what i've read, it's the complete opposite. get busy!

@fastnslowww: What did you read?

8th gen has parities because Xbox One performs less than the PS4 and the PS4 Pro performing less than the Xbox One X.

They go for the lowest common denominator and whichever makes more sense in terms of time/money to develop a cross platform game. Those specs are only useful when you have an exclusive deal.

In the past you would be 100% correct.

For XSX and PS5 though you have to remember that Ray Tracing can be implemented at the Hardware level and Ray Tracing actually makes things easier on developers.

You can literally develop the game with PS5 in mind and just implement a more aggressive approach to Ray Tracing on XSX. That would use the rest of your resources on XSX while making the game look significantly better and make devs lives easier too.

You could've just said "no" and not make yourself a target🤦‍♂️

You mean devs that retracted their tweets or work for Sony?

What do you expect Sony's devs to say?

The Crytek dev was FOS and basically deleted his tweets when he realized he was drunk.

Since you went there though the fact the CPU, GPU, GPU Bandwidth are all significantly faster on XSX and the clocks are maintained means over all the XSX will have less bottlenecks.

Don't start with the SSD crap. Even though PS5 has a faster SSD XSX also has a fast SSD and the only thing that's changing is how games get loaded. The work is still going on in the CPU and GPU and the SSD speeds are not anywhere close to Ram speeds. Games will load faster on PS5 but they will run better on XSX. The Specs don't lie.

@fastnslowww:

Alternative XSX memory model layout

Blue fluid, (odd 16 bit straws x 6 = 168 GB/s) + (112‬ GB/s two Blue glasses) = 280 GB/s with 8GB slice

Green fuild, (even 16 bit straws x 6 = 168 GB/s) + (112‬ GB/s two Green glasses) = 280 GB/s with 8GB slice

Total: 560 GB/s symmetric

It depends on how MS slices the physical memory address into virtual memory address.

XSX has more 16-bit memory channels when compared to PS5.

RDNA 2's bound box and intersect test raytracing pass is hardware accelerated but raytracing de-noise pass is missing Tensor cores, hence it's running on shader cores(?).

It's unknown at this stage if RDNA 2 would accelerate the raytracing de-noise pass with dedicated hardware.

Right and you can use those 2 TF's for that since the intersect acceleration doesn't use up the shader performance.

@navyguy21:

That is where you are wrong... Xbox One X became the powerhouse for the Xbox one

360 is not as powerful as the ps3 was in capable hands. PS3 exclusives looked better than the peak 360 graphics... this is coming from a 360 boy too.

Xbox curbstomped ps2 though graphically... you are right about that

PS3 could produce better Graphics in smaller environments with less going on.

Anything with lots of action and large environments would look and play better on 360.

360's strength was Unified shader GPU architecture and ED Ram that was far more efficient than PS3's Vertex and Pixel shader model without ED Ram.

PS3's strength was the fast SPE's in the CPU could help the weak GPU. Over all the 360 architecture was more well rounded for gaming purposes.

Don't forget that 360 released a whole year before the PS3 making those facts very impressive.

@EG101:

Uncharted 2/3, last of us, god of war 3 , Ratchet and clank games ran 60fps, and Beyond two souls or whatever quantum dreams last ps3 game was called looked better than 360 games.

It was not as jaw dropping as the difference between Xbox/GameCube and ps2 but it was noticeable.

Multiplat games did usually look better on 360 though

Battlefield 3 has deferred rendering for lights (like KZ2's deferred render lights hype) which is processed on PS3's SPUs while X360 GPU used it's ALU compute mode (early DX10 style compute shader).

NVIDIA's RSX potential GFLOPS is half due to pipeline I/O ports bottlenecks and asymmetric FPU unit design

Pixel Shader pipeline for NVIDIA G7X/RSX

NVIDIA RSX has 24-pixel shader pipelines.

ATI Xenos GPU has 48 unified symmetric pipelines exposed to the 64 threads wavefront (64 hyper-threads).

Xenos is powerful since it has 48 unified shader pipeline IO vs RSX's 24-pixel shader pipeline IO.

Modern GPUs have multiple thousands of hyper-threads.

GeForce 8 fixes Geforce 7's design issues with a flat unified shader design with more than 1Ghz clock speed.

Xenos GPU ROPS has a similar ability as DirectX12_1's Rasterizer ordered views (ROVs) function which ROPS hardware can re-order blending layers without compute resource usage.

Xbox 360's GPU ROPS function was exposed by Xbox 360 programmer for PC's Xbox 360 emulator which mapped Xbox 360 ROPS's ROV with DirectX12_1's Rasterizer ordered views (ROVs). On PS3, this is done with SPUs.

Xbox 360's GPU has hardware tesselation (appeared in DX11 with improvements). On PS3, this is done with SPUs.

@fastnslowww:So, you are saying that the Series X is so powerful that developers cannot handle its power. Interesting perspective.

@fastnslowww: The Xbox One X was a mid gen update, all games still have to work on the original Xbone, so how were they going to push it in that sense.

As for the new xbox, if it is the case that it's not as developer as the PS5, that doesn't mean it's going to be difficult like the Ps2 or PS3. As developers get used to it and tools mature, I'm sure things will improve.

Well the Xbox One had different executives. You had 2 clowns, Don Mattrick and Steve Balmer running things. Both guys absolutely clueless to what the market was asking for and wanted. One almost destroyed Windows and the other Xbox, together destroying the MS name.

Balmer and Mattrick's vision was to change the rights of ownership of games and media away from the consumer. They also wanted Xbox to be a TV watching box first and a console 2nd. Then they let those decisions affect the architecture of the XB1. Needing 8 GB of Ram from the outset for their TV and Kinect plan meant DDR3 Ram way before 8 GBs of GDDR5 could be available. Which also meant ES Ram to help with the lack of Bandwidth. Both those decisions meant a $500 console with a larger SOC than PS4 but far less CU's because of ES Ram.

Now contrast that to 2 guys with clear visions. Phil Spencer and Satya Nadella. 2 guys who at least try to understand what the markets want, what people are asking for and have a vision of where things should head. Nadella has helped turn MS into a Trillion dollar company while Spencer had to undo all the damage that Mattrick did and even has Xbox with some positive momentum right now.

Phil brought us XB1X a beast of a console and now XSX, the greatest console engineering achievement to date. Of course Phil didn't have his hands tied behind his back by Balmer but instead had the full support of Nadella who promoted Phil to the Big table.

MS as a whole is entirely different than in 2013.

@i_p_daily:

Great I wonder what lemming were you during the first Xbox one years,since you care so much about power.🤣

@ronvalencia:

MS doesn't own the PC market stop reaching.🤦

@EG101:

WTF newbie Sony had a Dev friendly machine before the Xbox was in MS mind,the PS1 was pretty easy to code for vs the n64 and saturn in fact the time to triangle a game on PS1 was the same as the PS4,but even that you name the PS2 and 3 you left the PS1 totally out.

How many bottlenecks the PS5 has than the Xbox?

In fact the Xbox has a split memory with 10GB faster than the PS5 and 6 GB slower,that isn't an ideal solution and is more cumbersome for developers.

lol DX12 development environment,this basement dweller doesn't know what he is talking about. Let's see when PS5 gives headaches to devs for it's random CPU and GPU speeds 😂 even with that GPU running at higher speeds is not match for a GPU with higher CU counts.

@fedor: lol you think it was retracted because it isn't true or because he doesn't want to be in deep shit?

@Tessellation: A Crytek engineer doesn't know what hes talking about?

Remember you care about power, I care about mocking cows for their lack of power, get it, got it, good. Now don't be a dumbarse again, yeah I know wishful thinking lol.

@r-gamer: Well he's already let go from the company.

@fastnslowww said:

@i_p_daily said:

@fastnslowww said:

Will the developers even be able to use up all that flops for their games? If i recall the XSX isn't as dev friendly as the PS5. I only see exclusives games reaching it or coming close to it.....but MS isn't known for their console pushing exclusives. Just look at the Xbox one X......nothing takes full advantage of that console. And i don't see 3rd party devs really trying hard to figure out the hardware, etc.

Sony seems to have developed the PS5 with little to NO bottlenecks...the same can't be said about XSX, apparently.

Thoughts?

The first thought I got was that you had little thought when making this thread LOL.

Those 9.2TF still stings I see, don't worry mate it will be alright :)

Mate i'm not worried. The PS5 will most likely be pushing better quality games.....Going by Sony's established and talented 1st party studio's/exclusives. I will go as far as saying the PS5 exlusives will look better than the XSX ones due to the easy to develop for hardware and unique architecture. The gap isn't that big my friend.

Oh but you are, I mean why else would a cow such as yourself create a thread to try and throw shade at the SeX, if you weren't worried lol, you're not fooling anyone here.

Continue on as i'm (and i'm sure a lot of others) are enjoying seeing cows flounder in these hard times :(

@fedor: https://de.linkedin.com/in/lordhippo

It shows hes still there.

https://mobile.twitter.com/lightlordhippo?lang=en

Edit: he was on LinkedIn but when I tried to link it it wont take me to the profile anymore. It shows hes with them on Twitter.

Xbox one X bottleneck? You are thinking about the PS4 Poo.

Don't make any sense, PS whatever console will destroy anything xbox lol. I had 360 and PS3. 360 slayed every game in visual fidelity and online was way better.