Why is Chrono Trigger still better than most RPG's?

It blows almost every modern RPG away and it's 13 years old. Is it the Star Wars of video games?
People say Mass Effects story is so great and while it's good it doesn't come close to Chrono Triggers and don't even get me started on Final Fantasy.

CT's story is amazing going from pre-historic times to modern day to future and more. It has great characters who are all different and interesting. It has a list of great bad guys including Magus(although he can join you) and his idiot followers Ozzie, Slash, and Flea plus the alien Larvos who is the main villain.
It also mixes the serious drama and light comedy perfectly where it doesn't have too much of either. Come on who didn't crack at least a smile in Ozzies fort, like when he was finally beaten by a cat knocking a switch and falling into his own trap? Games like Lost Odyssey go way too serious then throws a bit of stupid "comedy" your way to try and break it up.
It has an amazing soundtrack as well being up there with some of the best even today even with its basic midi sounds. I still remember some of the songs, Frog's theme was one of my favorite.
Finally, it also had amazing graphics for a Snes game. Some of the best in fact.

It was a perfect length(35-40 hours), it had 7 different endings. Hell it even kills off it's main hero...for a bit. What game does that? If this was made today they'd probably split it into a trilogy it has so much stuff. One game you fight Magus, second game you find out about Larvos and fight him the first time, third game you beat him.

These days it just seems JRPG's are falling way behind and featuring some trulying awful, annoying and stupid characters(I'm looking at you Final Fantasy). Where as WRPG's and going for the lighter(but still interesting) story and more open world(Fallout 3, Oblivion, Mass Effect ect). Although it is harder to count open world RPG's as they're a different kind, not story driven and linear and focuses on other things like more side quests and exploring.

Will any modern J/WRPG ever beat it? Or maybe the question I should ask is; Why hasn't any RPG beaten a 13 year old Snes game yet? Sure I know some games with fantasic music, top story, interesting characters, great graphics and a good length...but not all in the one game.

First off I said MOST, not all(although I think it's better than those 2 games). And secondly neither Fallout or ES2 are recent which is more of the RPG's I'm aiming this topic at.darklord888

Too human? I doubt but who knows it may....somehow. Btw do u prefer jrpgs or wrpjs

First off I said MOST, not all(although I think it's better than those 2 games). And secondly neither Fallout or ES2 are recent which is more of the RPG's I'm aiming this topic at.darklord888

Too human? I doubt it but who knows it may....somehow. Btw do u prefer jrpgs or wrpjs

[QUOTE="darklord888"]First off I said MOST, not all(although I think it's better than those 2 games). And secondly neither Fallout or ES2 are recent which is more of the RPG's I'm aiming this topic at.the1stfandb

Too human? I doubt it but who knows it may....somehow. Btw do u prefer jrpgs or wrpjs

[QUOTE="darklord888"]First off I said MOST, not all(although I think it's better than those 2 games). And secondly neither Fallout or ES2 are recent which is more of the RPG's I'm aiming this topic at.the1stfandb

Too human? I doubt it but who knows it may....somehow. Btw do u prefer jrpgs or wrpjs

CT still stands up too it's peers...which is sad when you think about it (the same is true of many other JRPG's from the SNES era). The genre has barely moved on since then. CT was getting rid of random battles ages ago, why did it take everyone else so long to catch on to an idea that is universally applauded?

And in spite of what I've heard about WRPG's having a renaissance, I don't see the evidence in gameplay which is still the same bar game to game variations (not changes across the entire genre). The WRPG atm has found a larger casual market and so developers have a freedom to experiment a bit which they haven't had in a while, but it's still not really driving the genre forward as a whole.

CT still stands up too contemporary RPG's...which is sad when you think about it (the same is true of many other JRPG's from the SNES era). The genre has barely moved on since then. CT was getting rid of random battles ages ago, why did it take everyone else so long to catch on to an idea that is universally applauded?

And in spite of what I've heard about WRPG's having a renaissance, I don't see the evidence in gameplay which is still the same bar game to game variations (not changes across the entire genre). The WRPG atm has found a larger casual market and so developers have a freedom to experiment a bit which they haven't had in a while, but it's still not really driving the genre forward as a whole.

First off I said MOST, not all(although I think it's better than those 2 games). And secondly neither Fallout or ES2 are recent which is more of the RPG's I'm aiming this topic at.darklord888

Do you consider NeverWinter Nights and Tales of Symphonia to be recent? If so, they both destroy CT, IMO.

[QUOTE="darklord888"]First off I said MOST, not all(although I think it's better than those 2 games). And secondly neither Fallout or ES2 are recent which is more of the RPG's I'm aiming this topic at.thepwninator

Do you consider NeverWinter Nights and Tales of Symphonia to be recent? If so, they both destroy CT, IMO.

NWN maybe. But ToS? ToS is only regarded as AA in most outlets. And tbh the only reason I sat and played through it all was because I paid for it (I even managed to trade it in for twice it's value). It wasn't at all a bad RPG, but there was nothing particularly outstanding about it in any area.

[QUOTE="thepwninator"]

[QUOTE="darklord888"]First off I said MOST, not all(although I think it's better than those 2 games). And secondly neither Fallout or ES2 are recent which is more of the RPG's I'm aiming this topic at.Articuno76

Do you consider NeverWinter Nights and Tales of Symphonia to be recent? If so, they both destroy CT, IMO.

NWN maybe. But ToS? ToS is only regarded as AA in most outlets. And tbh the only reason I sat and played through it all was because I paid for it (I even managed to trade it in for twice it's value). It wasn't at all a bad RPG, but there was nothing particularly outstanding about it in any area.

I strongly disagree with you due to the story that was buttressed by a decent combat system (something most RPGs lack...). My only problem with it was its lack of epic lewt. I should mention that The Witcher should be added to my previous enumeration of stellar modern RPGs.

weather it's an rpg or not ive never played a game that had better stories than the mgs series. i cry sometimes it's so mind bogglingTheMistique

I'm sorry, but MGS story is horrible and overrated. It has interesting characters, and does a great job on presentation, especially plot twists, but the story itself is just nonsensical, impracticable, too many holes and lacks direction.

I love MGS because of its story, but even I admit it isn't that great.

[QUOTE="darklord888"]First off I said MOST, not all(although I think it's better than those 2 games). And secondly neither Fallout or ES2 are recent which is more of the RPG's I'm aiming this topic at.thepwninator

Do you consider NeverWinter Nights and Tales of Symphonia to be recent? If so, they both destroy CT, IMO.

I'm sorry, but MGS story is horrible and overrated. It has interesting characters, and does a great job on presentation, especially plot twists, but the story itself is just nonsensical, impracticable, too many holes and lacks direction.

I love MGS because of its story, but even I admit it isn't that great.

Blue-Sky

Well, if you don;t like it, that's fine, but holes ? There are next to none.

IMO, CT is better then BG2, NWN, Planescape torment, any RPG made since its time. It is my #1 most favourite game of all time. Square never could remake the chrono trigger expieriance; they struck the perfect chord in game making.

Best story - Check

Best music - Check

Best graphics/art style (at the time) - Check

Good length - Check

Replayability - Check

Why do you guys think it got introduced into the greatest game hall of fame.

Skies of Arcadia

FF series up until X-2

Grandia

are just a few titles that live up to the quality of Chrono Trigger IMO.

Nothing beats BG2 or Planescape Torment imo. That is of course if you choose to compare CT to wrpg's.

But yeah it is on my top-five jrpg's of all time definetly.

I loved Chrono Trigger, but my favorite console RPG is Final Fantasy VI on the SNES which came out at around the same time - I played FF6 endelessly until I finished it. I think I went through it 5 or 6 times. Man what a great time for RPGs. BUT there have been some great RPGs afterwards that have just about matched it.

I loved the first Suikoden. It was soo cool recruiting people and seeing your base build up. I loved the epic battles too. For some reason I never got into subsequent Suikodens.

Skies of Arcadia was brilliant too. An RPG in a sky ship! Ahhh the Dreamcast...

I really enjoyed Final Fantasy X and X-2 (yes I admit to liking X-2) . XII was still fun but not the best IMO. 7 and 8 were decent. I never played FF9.

There have been some great WPRGs too... Jade Empire, Morrowind etc.

As for RPGs now I LOVE Mass Effect. It is extremely effective at telling a story and it's a fully open world, but not open enough where you can get to a point of not knowing what to do next and lose interest, or tedious and over-serious like Oblivion. Personally I think Mass Effect matches up with the RPGs of yore but it's hard to directly compare a WRPG with a JRPG.

it's 2008 , if you think chrono trigger is better than most rpg's released within the last 5 years ,then im sorry ,u need to play more rpg games Kakarot00769

Woosh! The thread goes right over your head. The TC's point is just that. In spite of time having gone by CT is still one of the best RPG's out there.

Heck, most games still don't have newgame + (which tbh should be in pretty much all RPG's).

Because it's still a good game? Age means nothing as long as the game is executed well and has polished core mechanics.

Have you played most RPGs? There are tons I could name immediately that are way better.Vandalvideo

Agreed. "The Best RPG of All-Time" title was dethroned long ago, and is currently being held by Shin Megami Tensei III Nocturne (IMO). Hell IMO Chrono Trigger wasn't even the best RPG for it's time. That award goes to Secret of Mana.

it remains an excellent jrpg's because jrpg's haven't advanced much in the past 15 years.

for example, doom was an excellent game for its time, but try and play it now, fps's have come so far since doom it feels almost boring to me.

XenoGears(PSX), Final Fantasy 6, Final Fantasy Tactics, Mass effect, Persona 2,3 are way better than Chrono Trigger IMO. But Chrono Trigger is a good game.

it's 2008 , if you think chrono trigger is better than most rpg's released within the last 5 years ,then im sorry ,u need to play more rpg games Kakarot00769

cause it is? there is no rpg that has matched the charm, replayability and depth of chrono trigger CT was one of the last few good jrpgs.

Now most of it is adrongenis techno punk crap.

Meh. Chrono Trigger wasn't nearly as good as FFVI.JiveT

Amen to that.

I liked Chrono Trigger. I still have my copy.

I don't consider it to be the greatest of all RPG's. Hell. I don't consider it to be the greatest RPG on the SNES. I'd say FF 6 personally.

Which is my point. I'm glad Chrono Trigger clicked for you, TC, but that's just your opinion.

So... will they ever make a game as good as Chrono Trigger for you? I don't think "they" will. Your opening statement is tainted with nostalgia, and that's not something that any company can package for you.

I think the larger point that has surfaced in this thread is that RPG's have not changed much...if much at all. While many take shots at changing the formula with rare cases not much is ever met with rave as the existing formula.

This also raises the question do RPG's need to change, or are they good as they are?

Also another funny thing is most RPG's that change the formula end up becoming a subdivision of RPG's, we have WRPG, JRPG, SRPG and then even standard RPG's can be split up even further.

you bet your arse i apporve of this topic

and to answer your question, that's because CT is the greatest game ever

I think the larger point that has surfaced in this thread is that RPG's have not changed much...if much at all. While many take shots at changing the formula with rare cases not much is ever met with rave as the existing formula.

This also raises the question do RPG's need to change, or are they good as they are?

Also another funny thing is most RPG's that change the formula end up becoming a subdivision of RPG's, we have WRPG, JRPG, SRPG and then even standard RPG's can be split up even further.

Jynxzor

The biggest problem with JRPGs has always been that sense of viscerality, like you're in the action and truly controlling it. Future (and some recent) RPGs will probably have battles going on in real-time and offer cinematic camera angles, along with the obvious graphical boosts, to upgrade that aspect of the genre.

I think the whole choosing attack, magic, skill, item, etc from a small menu during battles will probably be the norm for some time to come in JRPGs. Seems like that's still in FFXIII.

Because it's still a good game? Age means nothing as long as the game is executed well and has polished core mechanics.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Have you played most RPGs? There are tons I could name immediately that are way better.Gunraidan

Agreed. "The Best RPG of All-Time" title was dethroned long ago, and is currently being held by Shin Megami Tensei III Nocturne (IMO). Hell IMO Chrono Trigger wasn't even the best RPG for it's time. That award goes to Secret of Mana.

! We agree :)

Personally I would go SoM, FF6, then Chrono Trigger. To be fair I never owned a Genesis.

How many games hold up to Zelda: OOT? Great games will always be great. But ultimately the best? That's all a matter of opinion.

The JRPG Genre could use some refreshment. Personally I'd like more SoM, Sudeki, FF12, or Kotor style of gameplay instead of the 20+ year old turn-base rut.

For an RPG, story is FAR more important than anything else. That is the reason I find most WRPGs lacking compared to the best JRPGs. WRPGs focus too much on the stats/quests/etc. and the story is usualy a sideline. Gameplay is of course #2, but for an RPG, story comes first.

My list:

1. Xenogears (best story of any game ever made, imo. Great battle system as well)

2. Final Fantasy VI (best story of any FF, best gameplay as well. Also has one of the best soundtracks ever in a game. One of the only FFs to perfectly balance the class based+skill based)

3. Final Fantasy Tactics (amazing story and music, and I love turn-based strategy RPGs. The Job system is also unmatched)

4. Chrono Trigger (amazing story and music, with a great turn-based battle system that was very new at the time. The only thing holding it back from being #2 on my list is it's length. Even with all the different endings, the game is very short (20 hours max for a full playthrough))

5. Suikoden 2 (great story with variety in combat. The first one was great too, but this one just expounded on it a lot. 3 is also great)

Honorable Mention: FFIV, FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, FFX, Chrono Cross, Grandia, Persona 1-3, Disgaea 1-2, Parasite Eve 1-2, Kingdom Hearts 1-2, Star Ocean 2nd Story, Dragon Quest 8, Dark Cloud 1-2, Skies of Arcadia, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Secret of Mana, Seiken Densetsu 3, Baulder's Gate 1-2, Elder Scrolls 3-4, Lufia 1-2 ;) , Wild ARMs (first one), Alundra, Dragon Force* (I REALLY wish somehow this series got resurrected), Shining Force 1-3, Fallout 1-2, Jeanne D'Arc, FF VII: Crisis Core, Eternal Sonata

...etc. etc. I'm sure I missed quite a few. Also, some of those I hold a LOT higher on the pedestal than others, but I enjoyed all the ones I listed.

MyzeDivine

No Breath of Fire love? 1 was great. 2 was meh. I think it was 4 that had some of the most sophisticated dialogue for a character ever(required dictionary usage).

And I still don't get what's great about Dark Cloud 1, a poor zelda clone that wasn't very deep IMHO.

When you start to list it off like that, you realize how many truly great RPG's there have been. oh Don't forget KOTOR.

Didn't Chrono Cross get a perfect 10?

sad realization here, this game has not aged well. there are many current/past games that did it betterUtensilman

Chrono Trigger is one of the greatest games ever, it's no suprise to me that few games, if any, have been able to stand up to it.

But Chrono Trigger isn't the only game that ranks among the best. Super Mario Bros 3 is better then most games to this day as well, it's even better then some more advanced platformers(heck, i'm sure you'll find people who say SMB3 is better then SMG and SM64, though this is comparing a 2d platformer to a 3d). Sometimes, it's not about the technology. A game doesn't have to be more complex to be better, which is why games from the past can still be great today. Another great example is Super Metroid, easily one of the best games out there, yet many years old. Games are not just about specs, they don't have to get better just because the tech gets better(though they can), there is style to games.. creativity. And that's what really mantains these games.

Though, of course, that's not to say that some/many games lose alot of charm.. in some cases, the mechanics can hinder a game over time - what we once had no problem with, frame rate issues or clunky controls, become more apparent as titles get released that fix these issues. But, in the case of SMB3, or Chrono, their game mechanics were very solid and make the games more then playable today.

For me FF7 is the best JPRG ever made till now. And beat it in every part of the game.

Story / characters / depth / plot / weapons / spells / summons / skills / enemies . I mean ALL. Not talking about graphics , but what each JRPG has to offer except graphics. I mean who dont know Cloud and Sephiroth? Even after so many years FF7 is still so popular. Who dont know Jenova? Who dont know FF7!!!?? ... For me ff7 > All JPRG till now.

About Chrono Trigger was an amazing story tell for that 2d era. Nothing more , nothing less. Nice plot, story tell , well-done game. Nothing near to what FF7 offered after some years though.

[QUOTE="MyzeDivine"]

For an RPG, story is FAR more important than anything else. That is the reason I find most WRPGs lacking compared to the best JRPGs. WRPGs focus too much on the stats/quests/etc. and the story is usualy a sideline. Gameplay is of course #2, but for an RPG, story comes first.

My list:

1. Xenogears (best story of any game ever made, imo. Great battle system as well)

2. Final Fantasy VI (best story of any FF, best gameplay as well. Also has one of the best soundtracks ever in a game. One of the only FFs to perfectly balance the class based+skill based)

3. Final Fantasy Tactics (amazing story and music, and I love turn-based strategy RPGs. The Job system is also unmatched)

4. Chrono Trigger (amazing story and music, with a great turn-based battle system that was very new at the time. The only thing holding it back from being #2 on my list is it's length. Even with all the different endings, the game is very short (20 hours max for a full playthrough))

5. Suikoden 2 (great story with variety in combat. The first one was great too, but this one just expounded on it a lot. 3 is also great)

Honorable Mention: FFIV, FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, FFX, Chrono Cross, Grandia, Persona 1-3, Disgaea 1-2, Parasite Eve 1-2, Kingdom Hearts 1-2, Star Ocean 2nd Story, Dragon Quest 8, Dark Cloud 1-2, Skies of Arcadia, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Secret of Mana, Seiken Densetsu 3, Baulder's Gate 1-2, Elder Scrolls 3-4, Lufia 1-2 ;) , Wild ARMs (first one), Alundra, Dragon Force* (I REALLY wish somehow this series got resurrected), Shining Force 1-3, Fallout 1-2, Jeanne D'Arc, FF VII: Crisis Core, Eternal Sonata

...etc. etc. I'm sure I missed quite a few. Also, some of those I hold a LOT higher on the pedestal than others, but I enjoyed all the ones I listed.

kryloc

No Breath of Fire love? 1 was great. 2 was meh. I think it was 4 that had some of the most sophisticated dialogue for a character ever(required dictionary usage).

And I still don't get what's great about Dark Cloud 1, a poor zelda clone that wasn't very deep IMHO.

When you start to list it off like that, you realize how many truly great RPG's there have been. oh Don't forget KOTOR.

Didn't Chrono Cross get a perfect 10?

I remember buying Breath of Fire 1 the day it came out. It's fun, but I think I was slightly disappointed because at the time I just saw it had Squaresoft on the box, but they really didn't have much to do with the game and it definitely wasn't Squaresoft quality. However, that being said, Breath of Fire 1 was definitely the best in the series.

Dark Cloud 1 is a lot of fun, but I probably shouldn't have listed it, because it really isn't an RPG, and neither are any of the Zelda series really. Dark Cloud 2, however, is an RPG and would definitely be in my top 10 favorite RPGs and better than all but two Zelda games (OoT and Link to the Past), imo. If you want to consider Zelda an RPG, though, I would defintely put all of them in the list.

As for KotOR, yes, I just plain forgot both of them. However, I did put that "I'm sure I missed quite a few," and I'm sure there are quite a few more than the ones you listed that I forgot.

Yes, Chrono Cross got a 10 on Gamespot. It's an amazing game. It had more depth than Chrono Trigger, but I just don't think it was quite as good. Although, it's very close, and it would also be in my top 10.