Why Do People Think MGS4 is So Great (Spoilers Within)

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sonicmj1

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#1 sonicmj1
Member since 2003 • 9130 Posts

Really. I don't understand it. I bought a PS3 for it so I could buy it the day it came out, and I still don't understand it. What are people thinking when they beat Metal Gear Solid 4 and tell themselves, "This is the greatest game of this generation."?

How do they sit through a game that has over 9 hours of some of the most labored and pointless writing this generation and feel uplifted? When they play through the Frogs fight and listen to Johnny literally crapping his pants through the entire thing, does it bring a smile to their faces? Are they glued to the edge of their seats when it takes a minute and a half for security forces to surround Ocelot on a river in Act 3? Do they find the true origins of the Patriots to make any sense, given the characters involved? Are they brough tot tears by Naomi's sacrifice, weeping alongside Otacon's MKII? Did they find the hour-plus length epilogue act, Naked Sin, to be a fitting end for the series?

I don't understand it.

I've always been willing to explain what it is that disappointed me about MGS4. It's the way the plot swallows the entire game. It's just bad. It's filled with pointless exposition about nanomachines, FOXDIE, PMCs, and some utterly absurd plan of Liquid Ocelot's. Characters act in completely ridiculous ways for the convenience of drama and the plot (The pointless deaths of Big Mama and Naomi, everything Raiden does, Meryl and Johnny's sudden romance, etc.). MGS3's endearing support team is turned into a bunch of heartless monsters (Patriots aside, Paramedic is now responsible in canon for the inhuman experiments on Gray Fox, for example) just to create some sort of stupid tie-in to the series' past. Everyone's actions and plans are absurd, culminating in Big Boss's fanservice appearance at the graveyard where he spouts inane philosophy before killing an old man on life support and dying of a heart attack. The Beauty and the Beast Unit is the worst cast of bosses the series has ever seen, such that when I skipped Screaming Mantis's expository codec story by accident, I didn't even care. They're all the same. For a series that prided itself on interesting bosses, it's a weak effort.

And it's a shame, because there's really good stuff going on in terms of gameplay. I loved Acts 1 and 2. They put Octocamo, the Threat Ring, and the much-mproved controls and camera to good use. But cutscenes completely swallow the gameplay in the following acts, leaving shallow scenarios in their wake. The game only has two boss fights that are any fun, and even those don't rival MGS3's brilliant highs fighting The Boss or The End. At their best, they're about as good as the battle against The Fear. Stalking through the streets in Act 3 wore out its welcome well before it ended, and the chase was too busy being cinematic to feel like I had any control over the outcome. Act 4 replaced the great enemy AI with literal robots, and Act 5 was just two rooms. And over this time, there were at least 4 or 5 cinematic sequences that had save points in the middle of them before I could play as Snake again. MGS4 has twice as many cutscenes as MGS3 for about the same amount of gameplay, spread out over disparate locations, separated by boring installs to present us with areas that gave the illusion of opennness, but were chopped into pieces by static load screens.

I'm not ashamed to explain why I didn't like the game. Many others aren't as well. But so often when this topic is discussed, the game's so-called supporters don't actually offer any real support. They loft up empty platitudes, like, "greatest game of the generation," but they never explain why it's so great. I want to know.

TL;DR VERSION: MGS4 fans, what makes MGS4 such a great game? Why did you personally love it so much more than anything else you've played?

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finalstar2007

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#2 finalstar2007
Member since 2008 • 27952 Posts

I got the game 2 months ago, havent played much, will let you know when i beat it :)

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funsohng

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#3 funsohng
Member since 2005 • 29976 Posts
MGS4 is a great game. And I think almost everything except for the story makes it a great game.
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Silverbond

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#4 Silverbond
Member since 2008 • 16130 Posts

I see why you're SW's best debater.

I suppose the gameplay and/or graphics are a factor in the praising of MGS4.

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The_Game21x

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#5 The_Game21x
Member since 2005 • 26440 Posts

I said it once and I'll say it again.

MGS 4 is the most overrated game this generation. I really can't believe how many "perfect" 10s this game received. I mean, it's good enough but not that good, especially with the massive plot deficiencies and flat out ridiculousness that went on in the game.

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PatchMaster

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#6 PatchMaster
Member since 2003 • 6013 Posts

MGS3 > MGS4 in gameplay and story. MGS4 just had better graphics and production values.

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Zaibach

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#7 Zaibach
Member since 2007 • 13466 Posts

good game, good story GS 10

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deactivated-63f6895020e66

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#8 deactivated-63f6895020e66
Member since 2004 • 21177 Posts

Every single thing you said is true (yes, I read it all), but I still enjoyed it quite a bit.

I think a lot of it had to do with its superb presentation (the voice acting and graphics were that good that it didn't really matter what they said), so the beyond ridiculous storywas relatively easy to forgive. The fact it brought to an end (albeit disappointing most of the times) the secondary stories of the series also helped.

It's not among the top games this gen, though, and it's nowhere as good as MGS3, and all things considered is an example of how games and storytelling in gaming should notbe made.

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SilverChimera

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#9 SilverChimera
Member since 2009 • 9256 Posts
The gameplay is great. I can't say much for the story because I hadn't played the others at the time of playing MGS4, but meh, it didn't feel like a loss to watch the cutscenes. Besides, you can skip them if you don't like them, I guess.
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campzor

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#10 campzor
Member since 2004 • 34932 Posts
its entertaining and interesting and its unique (this gen)
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deactivated-5c8e4e07d5510

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#11 deactivated-5c8e4e07d5510
Member since 2007 • 17401 Posts
I have no point of reference or anything for the plot because I haven't played any of the prequels, all I have to judge the game on is the gameplay, and I couldn't stand it.
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cainetao11

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#12 cainetao11
Member since 2006 • 38036 Posts
I love the game because of the great gameplay. On a first playthrough, having invested so much gaming time into the lore og mgs, the cutscenes are tolerable although the melodrama is rough. But in the canon of mgs, it is no where near the best one imo. And of course it is not my favorite game this gen either.
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mccoyca112

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#13 mccoyca112
Member since 2007 • 5434 Posts

Sooo..you basically just didn't like how jumbled up the story was? Cant help you there. I enjoy it for the gameplay which, in my personal experience, lasted a good 8-9hrs. Only thing I didn't like about the story was the main plot devices and such repeating itself over and over again. The actual story, I enjoyed. Not nearly as much as 3, or even 2. Yes, Im a proud supporter of mgs2!(minus naked raiden section lol)

Didnt tear up over naomi(sp?) though. Personally, I didnt even really care.. and as ridiculous as bigboss/snake confrontation was, I enjoyed it. The first time, that is. Just tooooo long. Im glad they put it in though. Overall, cut the needless story fat and its great game really.

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RandomWinner

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#14 RandomWinner
Member since 2010 • 3751 Posts

When I was crawling through the microwave all I was thinking was "this is the best game I have ever played!". When Snake was at the graveyard at the very end, and put the gun in his mouth, I once again though "this is the greatest game I have ever played. Let me remind everyone Uncharted 2 had not released yet and Ocarina of Time slipped my mind. Then Big Boss showed up, explained 100 is 0 with 10 infront and 10 was like, 1 0 and 1 1, and 1 1 are 2 and 11.

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Mr_Ditters

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#15 Mr_Ditters
Member since 2008 • 1920 Posts

How about the whole cooking of eggs thing?

"Tell Naomi...I cooked them right"

My God. I was glad no one caught me playing that game when that line came up.

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Ziek-AAT

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#16 Ziek-AAT
Member since 2008 • 717 Posts

Great game but I don't think it deserved a 10, that should've gone to MGS3.

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2-10-08

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#17 2-10-08
Member since 2008 • 2775 Posts

Graphics are awesome, gameplay is great in that there are a ton of different ways to play it. The last boss fight was the definition of epic, and Snake is just a really cool guy to listen to and play as. Figuring out the story made you think, which is something a lot of games don't do. Best game on the PS3 imo.

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ps3wizard45

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#18 ps3wizard45
Member since 2007 • 12907 Posts

Its a good story and has fun gameplay. The cutscenes are great if your a fan. Thats all there is to it...

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tagyhag

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#19 tagyhag
Member since 2007 • 15874 Posts

It wasn't even the best MGS game in the series, MGS3 absolutely destroyed it. A poor end for Snake.

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deactivated-58b6232955e4a

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#20 deactivated-58b6232955e4a
Member since 2006 • 15594 Posts
3 was better.
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DJ_Headshot

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#21 DJ_Headshot
Member since 2010 • 6427 Posts
i don't know its a good game but best game ever or even this gen no way and I agree the story is not very good.
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tomarlyn

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#22 tomarlyn
Member since 2005 • 20148 Posts
The fan service is beyond compare.
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Verge_6

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#23 Verge_6
Member since 2007 • 20282 Posts

MGS3 > MGS4 in gameplay and story. MGS4 just had better graphics and production values.

PatchMaster
This. In my eyes, MGS3 dominated MGS4 in just about every field, save for visuals.
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Swift_Boss_A

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#24 Swift_Boss_A
Member since 2007 • 14579 Posts
Im one of those gamers who enjoys watching games as much as playing them, up until Uncharted 2 I felt MGS4 was the best cinematic gaming experience and it still holds true to this day to some extent, it's just that games like Uncharted 2 make it seem seamless whereas MGS4 makes you feel like you are either watching a movie or playing a game. Regarding the story I had no problem with it and yes some of it was hard to take in, I agree MGS3 had the better story but MGS4 definitely plays the best in the franchise.

I can understand why some people feel it's overrated but then again even the most popular of games, and movies for that matter have their fair share of people who dislike them, fact is a game can't please anyone but what MGS4 did is please majority of its fanbase. The game had the hard task of ending the Solid Snake story so the explanations were simplified like for example nanomachines being the reason for most of what occurred, but I bought into it, got absorbed and as a fan I loved it.
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StealthSting

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#25 StealthSting
Member since 2006 • 6915 Posts

Pretty much my reaction to it. But then again, I think I've voiced my opinion about the game way too much around here.

Character development was atrocious, some say that this wasn't needed, since many of the characters were already developed in prior games in the series, but I have to say bullocks. Having such a random character like Drebin serve as a cheap expository for character development of the Beauty and the Beast unit after you actually killed them, shows everything that was wrong with the game for me from a manner of characterization. Indeed, the worst bosses in the series and the most uninsteresting villains the series has ever seen.

I've never been that huge fan of the series story, though I've always enjoyed it, some might ask then, why do I even bother then? Because while I may not find them anything out of this world, the series still retains very interesting set pieces with interesting goofy characters. Eva was a perfect example of this that I always bring up and with that, again, I agree with your post--I actually cared about her when she was hurt in MGS3, but I didn't give a crap in seeing her burn in MGS4, in fact, I freaking laughed, I'm serious here, I laughed and when you later find out that who was actually burned with her was solidus... from a manner of drama the series still have a long way to go, but MGS4 wasn't even close to achieving good drama. Situations like the above, huddled with the forced and totally unecessary Solid Snake scene of him crawling through a microwave section just didn't do it for me, hell I found most of them hilariously bad, perhaps that's what Kojima intended all along?--but, no, I don't think so, not this time.

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sonicmj1

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#26 sonicmj1
Member since 2003 • 9130 Posts

Figuring out the story made you think, which is something a lot of games don't do. Best game on the PS3 imo.

2-10-08

Well, I can't deny this. It took a lot of thinking for me to fully untangle just how bad the story was. Layers upon layers of terrible plotting and writing.

I can sympathize with people here who liked the gameplay. I liked a lot of it too. But when so much of the game is story (half of my first playthrough), and when so much of that story is so poor, despite excellent graphics and so forth, it seems impossible to ignore, in my view.

Is there anyone here who really enjoyed the story? Can they explain what it was about the story that made them like it?

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Swift_Boss_A

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#27 Swift_Boss_A
Member since 2007 • 14579 Posts

It wasn't even the best MGS game in the series, MGS3 absolutely destroyed it. A poor end for Snake.

tagyhag
I personally think it was a fitting end, the final fight wih Liquid Ocelot was amazing with a real emotional punch. And seeing Snake with Big Boss though complete fan service made sense, I mean a lot of weird stuff happens in MGS and you have to expect it. And seeing the two together really brought the franchise full circle. You see Big Boss was Snake's first mission back in Metal Gear, he started as a soldier to bring him down and ended it with a new sense of appreciation for Big Boss.
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DucksBrains

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#28 DucksBrains
Member since 2007 • 1146 Posts

Are they glued to the edge of their seats when it takes a minute and a half for security forces to surround Ocelot on a river in Act 3?

sonicmj1

So much time wasted with the setup. You can watch a bunch of mooks shouldering their guns only for so long... Ugh I hated that scene.

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Skittles_McGee

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#29 Skittles_McGee
Member since 2008 • 9136 Posts
[QUOTE="Swift_Boss_A"][QUOTE="tagyhag"]

It wasn't even the best MGS game in the series, MGS3 absolutely destroyed it. A poor end for Snake.

I personally think it was a fitting end, the final fight wih Liquid Ocelot was amazing with a real emotional punch. And seeing Snake with Big Boss though complete fan service made sense, I mean a lot of weird stuff happens in MGS and you have to expect it. And seeing the two together really brought the franchise full circle. You see Big Boss was Snake's first mission back in Metal Gear, he started as a soldier to bring him down and ended it with a new sense of appreciation for Big Boss.

Yeah, it ended with Meryl in a wedding dress. That's precisely the kind of image I want to remember a series by.
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BedBugMan

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#30 BedBugMan
Member since 2010 • 313 Posts
It's a great game, and it left me in awe when I first finished it... but I havent played it since I first beat it back in June 2008. Amazing game, but really takes dedication to play because the cutscenes require your attention, and I cant stand to skip cutscenes...
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silversix_

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#31 silversix_
Member since 2010 • 26347 Posts
MGS4 is waaaaaay worst than MSG3 and i even like the 2nd one better. That kid coocking eggs was too much for me.
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The_Game21x

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#32 The_Game21x
Member since 2005 • 26440 Posts

[QUOTE="Swift_Boss_A"][QUOTE="tagyhag"]

It wasn't even the best MGS game in the series, MGS3 absolutely destroyed it. A poor end for Snake.

Skittles_McGee

I personally think it was a fitting end, the final fight wih Liquid Ocelot was amazing with a real emotional punch. And seeing Snake with Big Boss though complete fan service made sense, I mean a lot of weird stuff happens in MGS and you have to expect it. And seeing the two together really brought the franchise full circle. You see Big Boss was Snake's first mission back in Metal Gear, he started as a soldier to bring him down and ended it with a new sense of appreciation for Big Boss.

Yeah, it ended with Meryl in a wedding dress. That's precisely the kind of image I want to remember a series by.

Are you sure that was Meryl? That...thing...looked way too buff to be a woman...

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Verge_6

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#33 Verge_6
Member since 2007 • 20282 Posts
[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"][QUOTE="Swift_Boss_A"][QUOTE="tagyhag"]

It wasn't even the best MGS game in the series, MGS3 absolutely destroyed it. A poor end for Snake.

I personally think it was a fitting end, the final fight wih Liquid Ocelot was amazing with a real emotional punch. And seeing Snake with Big Boss though complete fan service made sense, I mean a lot of weird stuff happens in MGS and you have to expect it. And seeing the two together really brought the franchise full circle. You see Big Boss was Snake's first mission back in Metal Gear, he started as a soldier to bring him down and ended it with a new sense of appreciation for Big Boss.

Yeah, it ended with Meryl in a wedding dress. That's precisely the kind of image I want to remember a series by.

That legit made me lol. Your comment did. That specific scene just made me weep.
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BedBugMan

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#34 BedBugMan
Member since 2010 • 313 Posts
MGS4 is waaaaaay worst than MSG3 and i even like the 2nd one better. That kid coocking eggs was too much for me.silversix_
Yeah that was annoying. There is so alot of pretentious qualities to that franchise. The worst is that stupid pointless mock commercial that YOU CANT SKIP whenever you want to play the game from the beginning... that was like Kojima petting his own ego if you ask me. I love the game, but that was like, "c'mon".
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xXxQuizzyxXx

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#35 xXxQuizzyxXx
Member since 2010 • 553 Posts
it is easily one of the greatest games of all time
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fastr

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#36 fastr
Member since 2010 • 2100 Posts
Game wasn't even good.. forget great. The game play was bad, and at times just laughable. The story and rediculously long cut-scenes didn't help.
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#37 Mordred19
Member since 2007 • 8259 Posts

[QUOTE="PatchMaster"]

MGS3 > MGS4 in gameplay and story. MGS4 just had better graphics and production values.

Verge_6

This. In my eyes, MGS3 dominated MGS4 in just about every field, save for visuals.

yep. MGS4 could have been amazing, but I think the focus on cutscenes and MGO are what hobbled the game.

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StealthSting

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#38 StealthSting
Member since 2006 • 6915 Posts

[QUOTE="tagyhag"]

It wasn't even the best MGS game in the series, MGS3 absolutely destroyed it. A poor end for Snake.

Swift_Boss_A

I personally think it was a fitting end, the final fight wih Liquid Ocelot was amazing with a real emotional punch. And seeing Snake with Big Boss though complete fan service made sense, I mean a lot of weird stuff happens in MGS and you have to expect it. And seeing the two together really brought the franchise full circle. You see Big Boss was Snake's first mission back in Metal Gear, he started as a soldier to bring him down and ended it with a new sense of appreciation for Big Boss.

I don't even remember, but did Big Boss even mention Eva in the end at all? Don't get me wrong, I didn't hate seeing Big Boss in the end, but Eva was such a vivid character in the series for me, the way they treated her from what I remember was just all around... wrong...

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sonicmj1

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#39 sonicmj1
Member since 2003 • 9130 Posts

it is easily one of the greatest games of all timexXxQuizzyxXx

That's nice.

Can you explain why it's so great? Because that's what the original post asks for.

:|

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Swift_Boss_A

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#40 Swift_Boss_A
Member since 2007 • 14579 Posts
[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"][QUOTE="Swift_Boss_A"]I personally think it was a fitting end, the final fight wih Liquid Ocelot was amazing with a real emotional punch. And seeing Snake with Big Boss though complete fan service made sense, I mean a lot of weird stuff happens in MGS and you have to expect it. And seeing the two together really brought the franchise full circle. You see Big Boss was Snake's first mission back in Metal Gear, he started as a soldier to bring him down and ended it with a new sense of appreciation for Big Boss.Verge_6
Yeah, it ended with Meryl in a wedding dress. That's precisely the kind of image I want to remember a series by.

That legit made me lol. Your comment did. That specific scene just made me weep.

Dude MGS2 had Raiden running around Naked :P You gotta sought of expect such weird things from Kojima, lol
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soapandbubbles

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#42 soapandbubbles
Member since 2010 • 3412 Posts
MGS4 was mediocre compared to MGS3!
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Swift_Boss_A

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#43 Swift_Boss_A
Member since 2007 • 14579 Posts

[QUOTE="xXxQuizzyxXx"]it is easily one of the greatest games of all timesonicmj1

That's nice.

Can you explain why it's so great? Because that's what the original post asks for.

:|

The fact that the gameplay is the best in the series and from start to finish the game is pure unadulterated fan service ?
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archvile_78

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#44 archvile_78
Member since 2007 • 8438 Posts

mgs 4 hurt is still spreading after all this time, haters are still butthurt.HailCaesarHail

and fans of it still can't give credible reason why they consider it the greatest game of all time...sorta like you.

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Verge_6

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#45 Verge_6
Member since 2007 • 20282 Posts
[QUOTE="Swift_Boss_A"][QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"] Yeah, it ended with Meryl in a wedding dress. That's precisely the kind of image I want to remember a series by.

That legit made me lol. Your comment did. That specific scene just made me weep.

Dude MGS2 had Raiden running around Naked :P You gotta sought of expect such weird things from Kojima, lol

Raiden would have looked better in that wedding dress than Meryl. I would have preferred a naked raiden over butch-as-**** Meryl in a wedding dress.
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Swift_Boss_A

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#46 Swift_Boss_A
Member since 2007 • 14579 Posts

[QUOTE="HailCaesarHail"]mgs 4 hurt is still spreading after all this time, haters are still butthurt.archvile_78

and fans of it still can't give credible reason why they consider it the greatest game of all time...sorta like you.

Fans are not the(only) ones who are saying this. Go ask all the critics who have hailed MGS4 as such, all 100+ of them, lol
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enterawesome

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#47 enterawesome
Member since 2009 • 9477 Posts

The story stuff is all up in the air, you either like it or you don't, but the gameplay is outstanding in my eyes. The depth to the sneaking and even the gunplay is insane, and it rewards out-of-the-box thinking. There's just so many different ways to tackle individual sections of the game, and not to mention all the secrets and unlockables to find. It all just lends itself to replayability and my immense enjoyment of the game.

But probably my favorite part is how MGS4 deals with special gameplay sequences. (When I say that, I mean "cinematic", but that's a ****ing stupid word and games shouldn't try to mimick movies) Some examples, like the REX vs. RAY sequence, were amazing because they were fully functioning mechs the player had 100% control over with all new gameplay mechanics. Same with the Snake vs. Liquid endfight, and the microwave crawl, and the couple of on rails turret sequences. In any other game, the devs would've copped out and thrown in a few button prompts for a half-assed quick time event, but not MGS4. And when the devolopers can't properly implement a sequence into the game, they lay off and give you a well-produced cutscene, sometimes while you're playing the standard game. Ultimately, it does away with the irritation and detchament that come with quick time events and it's much more enjoyable that way.

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spookykid143

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#48 spookykid143
Member since 2009 • 10393 Posts

MGS3 > MGS4 in gameplay and story. MGS4 just had better graphics and production values.

PatchMaster

MGS3 has horrible gameplay

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The_Game21x

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#49 The_Game21x
Member since 2005 • 26440 Posts

[QUOTE="sonicmj1"]

[QUOTE="xXxQuizzyxXx"]it is easily one of the greatest games of all timeSwift_Boss_A

That's nice.

Can you explain why it's so great? Because that's what the original post asks for.

:|

The fact that the gameplay is the best in the series and from start to finish the game is pure unadulterated fan service ?

Yeah...neither of those things are facts...

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spookykid143

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#50 spookykid143
Member since 2009 • 10393 Posts

[QUOTE="Swift_Boss_A"][QUOTE="sonicmj1"]

That's nice.

Can you explain why it's so great? Because that's what the original post asks for.

:|

The_Game21x

The fact that the gameplay is the best in the series and from start to finish the game is pure unadulterated fan service ?

Yeah...neither of those things are facts...

I really would like to know which MGS has better gameplay