Why do people think Halo 3 will look better?

I'm not going to knock on Halo or the 360. I'm a fan of both and am looking forward to when I can go pick up my copy of Halo 3.

The thing is, I know the graphics have already been beat. Until something like Crysis comes out, Gears of War will probably be the best-looking game you can find. So, when I see people trying to defend Halo 3's graphics by saying, "It's in Beta phase, they still have some polishing to do."

Okay, first off, this is a game, not a car. It doesn't have thousands upon thousands of variables that make up the player models and environments. It's quite simple.

1. You model the object or character

2. You texture it/map it

3. You rig it

4. You animate it

5. Maybe throw a shader or two on it

6. You throw it in the game

Anything that DOES change by the time of release is most likely something they decided to change and/or replace towards the end of production, usually if it's too buggy and they can't fix it on time.

So, that's basically it. People think there is some deep artifice behind the look of a game, but there really isn't. The real technical stuff is the designing of the engine, which takes a lot of time and effort. After that, it's nothing more than throwing things inside of it.

It IS Beta phase, yes.... exactly..... the phase where they test EVERYTHING, including the graphics. People say, "Oh, it's multiplayer Beta, they said they left some things out because of that." Well, why, in God's name, would they omit something that could cause a glitch or crash in the game. Graphical glitches are the most common and can cause the most problems, leaving something out of a Beta test seems a little silly, doesn't it?

The game will be awesome! Yes, it's always nice to see your favorite game look the best as possible, but the game looks good enough. There really isn't any need to defend it so ignorantly.

It'll be fun. Think about it, the 360 has two of the most fun shooters in console history. Be glad. 

Do you work at Bungie?

If not then you should leave. 

1) You're not the developer team

2) I really don't think Microsoft will let their flagship title look like crap 

Do you work at Bungie?

If not then you should leave. 

MCGSMB

i wonder the same thing soemtimes.People on SW talk like they work for these companies and know what they are doing.From what Bungie said the graphics will get better and i trust them more hen some random guy.

I'm not in the game industry (yet), but I do know how it works.

This is my chosen vocation, basically. We had to learn how these things worked.

I figured I'd have my work cut out for me, but quite honestly there's nothing to it. 

I'm not in the game industry (yet), but I do know how it works.

 

This is my chosen vocation, basically. We had to learn how these things worked.

I figured I'd have my work cut out for me, but quite honestly there's nothing to it. 

Chloroformality

But...do you work for Bungie?

If not, then you should leave. 

[QUOTE="Chloroformality"]

I'm not in the game industry (yet), but I do know how it works.

 

This is my chosen vocation, basically. We had to learn how these things worked.

I figured I'd have my work cut out for me, but quite honestly there's nothing to it.

MCGSMB

But...do you work for Bungie?

If not, then you should leave.

It doesn't matter if I work for Bungie or Double Fine, all games go through the same processes.

The reason why some look better than others? Well, the Engine better utilizes the hardware and graphical features it offers, and the team designing the game does a good job of balancing the poly count while taking advantage of the mapping features that the engine offers.

Not too hard to understand. 

hhhhmmm?? What does the word "Beta" mean to you?cobrax80

Beta usually means that the game is pretty much close to completion and that tests are run if everything works the way it should. There usually aren't any major (graphical) changes from Beta to final. That's what a Beta means to me anyways.

[QUOTE="MCGSMB"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"]

I'm not in the game industry (yet), but I do know how it works.

 

This is my chosen vocation, basically. We had to learn how these things worked.

I figured I'd have my work cut out for me, but quite honestly there's nothing to it.

Chloroformality

But...do you work for Bungie?

If not, then you should leave.

It doesn't matter if I work for Bungie or Double Fine, all games go through the same processes.

The reason why some look better than others? Well, the Engine better utilizes the hardware and graphical features it offers, and the team designing the game does a good job of balancing the poly count while taking advantage of the mapping features that the engine offers.

Not too hard to understand. 

no they don't. It all depends on the developers.

[QUOTE="cobrax80"]hhhhmmm?? What does the word "Beta" mean to you?Nightflash28

Beta usually means that the game is pretty much close to completion and that tests are run if everything works the way it should. There usually aren't any major (graphical) changes from Beta to final. That's what a Beta means to me anyways.

[QUOTE="Nightflash28"]

[QUOTE="cobrax80"]hhhhmmm?? What does the word "Beta" mean to you?DaysAirlines

Beta usually means that the game is pretty much close to completion and that tests are run if everything works the way it should. There usually aren't any major (graphical) changes from Beta to final. That's what a Beta means to me anyways.

Urm, yeah and just how much better did Halo 2 look in comparison to Halo 1? Granted, there was an improvement, but i wasn't really that much. 

[QUOTE="cobrax80"]hhhhmmm?? What does the word "Beta" mean to you?Nightflash28

Beta usually means that the game is pretty much close to completion and that tests are run if everything works the way it should. There usually aren't any major (graphical) changes from Beta to final. That's what a Beta means to me anyways.

Exactly.

I am slightly confident they'll throw in a couple of extra things and test them theirselves, but the game won't look much better.

It's like when you Beta test a PC MMO. It basically stays the same until it launches. In fact, you don't even need to go out and buy some MMOs after you've tested them, you just need to purchase a CD key online for the price of the game.

Why? Because what you have in your PC that you've been testing for a month or so is the same thing that's in the boxes at EBgames. 

Because it in Beta.

/thread

[QUOTE="DaysAirlines"][QUOTE="Nightflash28"]

[QUOTE="cobrax80"]hhhhmmm?? What does the word "Beta" mean to you?Nightflash28

Beta usually means that the game is pretty much close to completion and that tests are run if everything works the way it should. There usually aren't any major (graphical) changes from Beta to final. That's what a Beta means to me anyways.

Urm, yeah and just how much better did Halo 2 look in comparison to Halo 1? Granted, there was an improvement, but i wasn't really that much. 

Huge difference, look up the screenshots of both games.

[QUOTE="Chloroformality"][QUOTE="MCGSMB"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"]

I'm not in the game industry (yet), but I do know how it works.

 

This is my chosen vocation, basically. We had to learn how these things worked.

I figured I'd have my work cut out for me, but quite honestly there's nothing to it.

cobrax80

But...do you work for Bungie?

If not, then you should leave.

It doesn't matter if I work for Bungie or Double Fine, all games go through the same processes.

The reason why some look better than others? Well, the Engine better utilizes the hardware and graphical features it offers, and the team designing the game does a good job of balancing the poly count while taking advantage of the mapping features that the engine offers.

Not too hard to understand.

no they don't. It all depends on the developers.

Sure. Epic uses an engine while Konami just takes a magical dump on their keypads.

Sure, the developers have the most say on what the game will look like in the end, but all games besically go through the same processes. The only difference is TWO.... TWO!!!!! things. The engine the game is running on and the art team behind the game.

....that's it... end of story.... stop trying to argue with someone who has a BMA in this crap... 

[QUOTE="DaysAirlines"][QUOTE="Nightflash28"]

[QUOTE="cobrax80"]hhhhmmm?? What does the word "Beta" mean to you?Nightflash28

Beta usually means that the game is pretty much close to completion and that tests are run if everything works the way it should. There usually aren't any major (graphical) changes from Beta to final. That's what a Beta means to me anyways.

Urm, yeah and just how much better did Halo 2 look in comparison to Halo 1? Granted, there was an improvement, but i wasn't really that much.

[QUOTE="cobrax80"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"][QUOTE="MCGSMB"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"]

I'm not in the game industry (yet), but I do know how it works.

 

This is my chosen vocation, basically. We had to learn how these things worked.

I figured I'd have my work cut out for me, but quite honestly there's nothing to it.

Chloroformality

But...do you work for Bungie?

If not, then you should leave.

It doesn't matter if I work for Bungie or Double Fine, all games go through the same processes.

The reason why some look better than others? Well, the Engine better utilizes the hardware and graphical features it offers, and the team designing the game does a good job of balancing the poly count while taking advantage of the mapping features that the engine offers.

Not too hard to understand.

no they don't. It all depends on the developers.

Sure. Epic uses an engine while Konami just takes a magical dump on their keypads.

Sure, the developers have the most say on what the game will look like in the end, but all games besically go through the same processes. The only difference is TWO.... TWO!!!!! things. The engine the game is running on and the art team behind the game.

....that's it... end of story.... stop trying to argue with someone who has a BMA in this crap... 

you know, for all the stuff you are saying, you act like you have been involved in game projects in every company on earth.

[QUOTE="Chloroformality"][QUOTE="cobrax80"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"][QUOTE="MCGSMB"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"]

I'm not in the game industry (yet), but I do know how it works.

 

This is my chosen vocation, basically. We had to learn how these things worked.

I figured I'd have my work cut out for me, but quite honestly there's nothing to it.

cobrax80

But...do you work for Bungie?

If not, then you should leave.

It doesn't matter if I work for Bungie or Double Fine, all games go through the same processes.

The reason why some look better than others? Well, the Engine better utilizes the hardware and graphical features it offers, and the team designing the game does a good job of balancing the poly count while taking advantage of the mapping features that the engine offers.

Not too hard to understand.

no they don't. It all depends on the developers.

Sure. Epic uses an engine while Konami just takes a magical dump on their keypads.

Sure, the developers have the most say on what the game will look like in the end, but all games besically go through the same processes. The only difference is TWO.... TWO!!!!! things. The engine the game is running on and the art team behind the game.

....that's it... end of story.... stop trying to argue with someone who has a BMA in this crap...

you know, for all the stuff you are saying, you act like you have been involved in game projects in every company on earth.

While I didn't expect everyone to be on the same page as me, I expect them to give me a little credit.

I'm spending money learning how these things are made. My instructors are people who work for Sony, Sega, Double Fine, Secret Level... etc. I should know a little more than these people who come in and try to contradict me by their assumptions, having no hands-on experience.

I'm not trying to knock on Halo 3, I'm just trying to point out that it won't really change and they should be glad it looks good ENOUGH. That, and it'll be a fun game. 

1) You're not the developer team

2) I really don't think Microsoft will let their flagship title look like crap 

 3) It's BETA, BETAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

Verge_6

/thread

[QUOTE="cobrax80"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"][QUOTE="cobrax80"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"][QUOTE="MCGSMB"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"]

I'm not in the game industry (yet), but I do know how it works.

 

This is my chosen vocation, basically. We had to learn how these things worked.

I figured I'd have my work cut out for me, but quite honestly there's nothing to it.

Chloroformality

But...do you work for Bungie?

If not, then you should leave.

It doesn't matter if I work for Bungie or Double Fine, all games go through the same processes.

The reason why some look better than others? Well, the Engine better utilizes the hardware and graphical features it offers, and the team designing the game does a good job of balancing the poly count while taking advantage of the mapping features that the engine offers.

Not too hard to understand.

no they don't. It all depends on the developers.

Sure. Epic uses an engine while Konami just takes a magical dump on their keypads.

Sure, the developers have the most say on what the game will look like in the end, but all games besically go through the same processes. The only difference is TWO.... TWO!!!!! things. The engine the game is running on and the art team behind the game.

....that's it... end of story.... stop trying to argue with someone who has a BMA in this crap...

you know, for all the stuff you are saying, you act like you have been involved in game projects in every company on earth.

While I didn't expect everyone to be on the same page as me, I expect them to give me a little credit.

I'm spending money learning how these things are made. My instructors are people who work for Sony, Sega, Double Fine, Secret Level... etc. I should know a little more than these people who come in and try to contradict me by their assumptions, having no hands-on experience.

I'm not trying to knock on Halo 3, I'm just trying to point out that it won't really change and they should be glad it looks good ENOUGH. That, and it'll be a fun game. 

I'm just saying don't make any predictions until the game is finished. You never know what it might look like.

[QUOTE="Chloroformality"][QUOTE="cobrax80"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"][QUOTE="cobrax80"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"][QUOTE="MCGSMB"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"]

I'm not in the game industry (yet), but I do know how it works.

 

This is my chosen vocation, basically. We had to learn how these things worked.

I figured I'd have my work cut out for me, but quite honestly there's nothing to it.

cobrax80

But...do you work for Bungie?

If not, then you should leave.

It doesn't matter if I work for Bungie or Double Fine, all games go through the same processes.

The reason why some look better than others? Well, the Engine better utilizes the hardware and graphical features it offers, and the team designing the game does a good job of balancing the poly count while taking advantage of the mapping features that the engine offers.

Not too hard to understand.

no they don't. It all depends on the developers.

Sure. Epic uses an engine while Konami just takes a magical dump on their keypads.

Sure, the developers have the most say on what the game will look like in the end, but all games besically go through the same processes. The only difference is TWO.... TWO!!!!! things. The engine the game is running on and the art team behind the game.

....that's it... end of story.... stop trying to argue with someone who has a BMA in this crap...

you know, for all the stuff you are saying, you act like you have been involved in game projects in every company on earth.

While I didn't expect everyone to be on the same page as me, I expect them to give me a little credit.

I'm spending money learning how these things are made. My instructors are people who work for Sony, Sega, Double Fine, Secret Level... etc. I should know a little more than these people who come in and try to contradict me by their assumptions, having no hands-on experience.

I'm not trying to knock on Halo 3, I'm just trying to point out that it won't really change and they should be glad it looks good ENOUGH. That, and it'll be a fun game.

I'm just saying don't make any predictions until the game is finished. You never know what it might look like.

Well I'm not "predicting" anything, I'm going off of the knowledge I know. And I do agree, certain things might look a little better, but not much, and not the things people think.

It's in Beta to test the game. It doesn't seem very efficiant to throw in extra things that'll make the game look loads better, so close to when it's coming out and in a limited time to properly test them.

Which is what a lot of people seem to think. 

[QUOTE="cobrax80"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"][QUOTE="cobrax80"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"][QUOTE="MCGSMB"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"]

I'm not in the game industry (yet), but I do know how it works.

 

This is my chosen vocation, basically. We had to learn how these things worked.

I figured I'd have my work cut out for me, but quite honestly there's nothing to it.

Chloroformality

But...do you work for Bungie?

If not, then you should leave.

It doesn't matter if I work for Bungie or Double Fine, all games go through the same processes.

The reason why some look better than others? Well, the Engine better utilizes the hardware and graphical features it offers, and the team designing the game does a good job of balancing the poly count while taking advantage of the mapping features that the engine offers.

Not too hard to understand.

no they don't. It all depends on the developers.

Sure. Epic uses an engine while Konami just takes a magical dump on their keypads.

Sure, the developers have the most say on what the game will look like in the end, but all games besically go through the same processes. The only difference is TWO.... TWO!!!!! things. The engine the game is running on and the art team behind the game.

....that's it... end of story.... stop trying to argue with someone who has a BMA in this crap...

you know, for all the stuff you are saying, you act like you have been involved in game projects in every company on earth.

While I didn't expect everyone to be on the same page as me, I expect them to give me a little credit.

I'm spending money learning how these things are made. My instructors are people who work for Sony, Sega, Double Fine, Secret Level... etc. I should know a little more than these people who come in and try to contradict me by their assumptions, having no hands-on experience.

I'm not trying to knock on Halo 3, I'm just trying to point out that it won't really change and they should be glad it looks good ENOUGH. That, and it'll be a fun game. 

[QUOTE="cobrax80"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"][QUOTE="cobrax80"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"][QUOTE="cobrax80"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"][QUOTE="MCGSMB"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"]

I'm not in the game industry (yet), but I do know how it works.

 

This is my chosen vocation, basically. We had to learn how these things worked.

I figured I'd have my work cut out for me, but quite honestly there's nothing to it.

Chloroformality

But...do you work for Bungie?

If not, then you should leave.

It doesn't matter if I work for Bungie or Double Fine, all games go through the same processes.

The reason why some look better than others? Well, the Engine better utilizes the hardware and graphical features it offers, and the team designing the game does a good job of balancing the poly count while taking advantage of the mapping features that the engine offers.

Not too hard to understand.

no they don't. It all depends on the developers.

Sure. Epic uses an engine while Konami just takes a magical dump on their keypads.

Sure, the developers have the most say on what the game will look like in the end, but all games besically go through the same processes. The only difference is TWO.... TWO!!!!! things. The engine the game is running on and the art team behind the game.

....that's it... end of story.... stop trying to argue with someone who has a BMA in this crap...

you know, for all the stuff you are saying, you act like you have been involved in game projects in every company on earth.

While I didn't expect everyone to be on the same page as me, I expect them to give me a little credit.

I'm spending money learning how these things are made. My instructors are people who work for Sony, Sega, Double Fine, Secret Level... etc. I should know a little more than these people who come in and try to contradict me by their assumptions, having no hands-on experience.

I'm not trying to knock on Halo 3, I'm just trying to point out that it won't really change and they should be glad it looks good ENOUGH. That, and it'll be a fun game.

I'm just saying don't make any predictions until the game is finished. You never know what it might look like.

Well I'm not "predicting" anything, I'm going off of the knowledge I know. And I do agree, certain things might look a little better, but not much, and not the things people think.

It's in Beta to test the game. It doesn't seem very efficiant to throw in extra things that'll make the game look loads better, so close to when it's coming out and in a limited time to properly test them.

Which is what a lot of people seem to think. 

a.k.a: Predicting or educated guessing.:P

[QUOTE="Chloroformality"][QUOTE="cobrax80"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"][QUOTE="cobrax80"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"][QUOTE="cobrax80"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"][QUOTE="MCGSMB"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"]

I'm not in the game industry (yet), but I do know how it works.

 

This is my chosen vocation, basically. We had to learn how these things worked.

I figured I'd have my work cut out for me, but quite honestly there's nothing to it.

cobrax80

But...do you work for Bungie?

If not, then you should leave.

It doesn't matter if I work for Bungie or Double Fine, all games go through the same processes.

The reason why some look better than others? Well, the Engine better utilizes the hardware and graphical features it offers, and the team designing the game does a good job of balancing the poly count while taking advantage of the mapping features that the engine offers.

Not too hard to understand.

no they don't. It all depends on the developers.

Sure. Epic uses an engine while Konami just takes a magical dump on their keypads.

Sure, the developers have the most say on what the game will look like in the end, but all games besically go through the same processes. The only difference is TWO.... TWO!!!!! things. The engine the game is running on and the art team behind the game.

....that's it... end of story.... stop trying to argue with someone who has a BMA in this crap...

you know, for all the stuff you are saying, you act like you have been involved in game projects in every company on earth.

While I didn't expect everyone to be on the same page as me, I expect them to give me a little credit.

I'm spending money learning how these things are made. My instructors are people who work for Sony, Sega, Double Fine, Secret Level... etc. I should know a little more than these people who come in and try to contradict me by their assumptions, having no hands-on experience.

I'm not trying to knock on Halo 3, I'm just trying to point out that it won't really change and they should be glad it looks good ENOUGH. That, and it'll be a fun game.

I'm just saying don't make any predictions until the game is finished. You never know what it might look like.

Well I'm not "predicting" anything, I'm going off of the knowledge I know. And I do agree, certain things might look a little better, but not much, and not the things people think.

It's in Beta to test the game. It doesn't seem very efficiant to throw in extra things that'll make the game look loads better, so close to when it's coming out and in a limited time to properly test them.

Which is what a lot of people seem to think.

a.k.a: Predicting or educated guessing.:P

People here can predict or "guess" that a game will look better. But I am "educated" in ways that allow me to realize certain things aren't as simeple as a word such as "polish." 

I'm not going to knock on Halo or the 360. I'm a fan of both and am looking forward to when I can go pick up my copy of Halo 3.

The thing is, I know the graphics have already been beat. Until something like Crysis comes out, Gears of War will probably be the best-looking game you can find. So, when I see people trying to defend Halo 3's graphics by saying, "It's in Beta phase, they still have some polishing to do."

 

Okay, first off, this is a game, not a car. It doesn't have thousands upon thousands of variables that make up the player models and environments. It's quite simple.

1. You model the object or character

2. You texture it/map it

3. You rig it

4. You animate it

5. Maybe throw a shader or two on it

6. You throw it in the game

 

Anything that DOES change by the time of release is most likely something they decided to change and/or replace towards the end of production, usually if it's too buggy and they can't fix it on time.

So, that's basically it. People think there is some deep artifice behind the look of a game, but there really isn't. The real technical stuff is the designing of the engine, which takes a lot of time and effort. After that, it's nothing more than throwing things inside of it.

 

It IS Beta phase, yes.... exactly..... the phase where they test EVERYTHING, including the graphics. People say, "Oh, it's multiplayer Beta, they said they left some things out because of that." Well, why, in God's name, would they omit something that could cause a glitch or crash in the game. Graphical glitches are the most common and can cause the most problems, leaving something out of a Beta test seems a little silly, doesn't it?

 

The game will be awesome! Yes, it's always nice to see your favorite game look the best as possible, but the game looks good enough. There really isn't any need to defend it so ignorantly.

It'll be fun. Think about it, the 360 has two of the most fun shooters in console history. Be glad. 

Chloroformality

You put something similar to this in another post.  The problem is... you are very wrong.

I will start by saying that if the Halo 3 graphics didn't change, I would still love it.  I never expected it to look like Gears.  It's a different art style.  I think it looks great now...  but it IS A BETA and likely, it WILL LOOK BETTER.

A beta is NOT used to show off graphics.  It is simply used to tweak gameplay, balnce weapons, balance maps, find glitches, and get feedback (from the public, in this case).  Bungie even stated MONTHS AGO that this would NOT be the final graphics.

Developers have crews that are dedicated to textures.  People dedicated to enviornmental elements (trees, rocks, etc.). People dedicated to special effects.  Crews specifically charged with the games lighting, etc.  Do you really think these dozens of people just stop working for the last 6 months?  ARE YOU CRAZY?  Thjey do not take 6 month coffee breaks at the final phase before the game goes gold.  Thney will enhance textures, they will enhance enviornmental elements.  As the code gets optimized they will add more elements.  The guys working on specail effect, bump mapping, and lighting will continue to tweak and implement their code.  This will happen UNTIL THE GAME GOES GOLD.

Please stop trying to convinve people of you game development method, as it is wrong.  Developers CAN AND WILL enhance a game until the final day of development comes to an end.  It doesn't mean Halo 3 will look better than now...  but certainly is iwithin the posiibilities and probably VERY likely

You put something similar to this in another post. The problem is... you are very wrong.

I will start by saying that if the Halo 3 graphics didn't change, I would still love it. I never expected it to look like Gears. It's a different art style. I think it looks great now... but it IS A BETA and likely, it WILL LOOK BETTER.

A beta is NOT used to show off graphics. It is simply used to tweak gameplay, balnce weapons, balance maps, find glitches, and get feedback (from the public, in this case). Bungie even stated MONTHS AGO that this would NOT be the final graphics.

Developers have crews that are dedicated to textures. People dedicated to enviornmental elements (trees, rocks, etc.). People dedicated to special effects. Crews specifically charged with the games lighting, etc. Do you really think these dozens of people just stop working for the last 6 months? ARE YOU CRAZY? Thjey do not take 6 month coffee breaks at the final phase before the game goes gold. Thney will enhance textures, they will enhance enviornmental elements. As the code gets optimized they will add more elements. The guys working on specail effect, bump mapping, and lighting will continue to tweak and implement their code. This will happen UNTIL THE GAME GOES GOLD.

Please stop trying to convinve people of you game development method, as it is wrong. Developers CAN AND WILL enhance a game until the final day of development comes to an end. It doesn't mean Halo 3 will look better than now... but certainly is iwithin the posiibilities and probably VERY likely

Mystikef

You said, and I quote, "Beta is simply used to ... find glitches..." Does that exclude graphical glitches? Because they are the most common, often the most troublesome, and sometimes can be quite hard to find, especially in the thick of multiplayer gameplay of all things. So, they're testing multiplayer; chances are whatever big graphical features they had planned for MP are already in there. There's really no point in adding more as it causes more work for the team (though, free Beta testing saves them a lot of trouble and money).

And, no, I don't believe the entire art team stops working the second MULTIPLAYER BETA starts, duh. We haven't really seen anything of Single Player, yet, which makes me assume that they're not quite done with it yet. So, chances are they're spending a nice amount of time on the rest of the Single Player mode.

And, code has nothing to do with the art team, those would be the technical artists. The best they can do at this stage is create scrips that help the team better animate things, not to mention tweak the AI, pre-scripted events, etc. The bulk of the scipting that goes into the artistic look of the game is already in the engine. They just have to manage things accordingly, so the framerate can stay solid.

Lighting, bump mapping, and special effects (which I'm assuming you mean particles) are all already taken care of by the engine, no more programming to be done there.

..... and this is not MY developement method, it's THE developement method. God only knows how many other people here have actually picked up Maya and modeled/imported a static mesh for a game. My guess is very few.

But, whatever makes you guys feel better.

you do not know anything about developing and producing a videogame.Rob2223

Do you? 

1) You're not the developer team

2) I really don't think Microsoft will let their flagship title look like crap 

Verge_6

Yeah it does look like crap :lol: I hope ur a lemming. The snow level looked a little crappy. No footprints and no effects for the snow, just collision.

Haha so, TC, where do you go to school?

Devry?

:lol::lol::lol: 

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]

1) You're not the developer team

2) I really don't think Microsoft will let their flagship title look like crap

Hir0_N

Yeah it does look like crap :lol: I hope ur a lemming. The snow level looked a little crappy. No footprints and no effects for the snow, just collision.

I didn't make this to discuss what Halo 3 looked like.

The game looks good enough. 

[QUOTE="Mystikef"]

You put something similar to this in another post. The problem is... you are very wrong.

I will start by saying that if the Halo 3 graphics didn't change, I would still love it. I never expected it to look like Gears. It's a different art style. I think it looks great now... but it IS A BETA and likely, it WILL LOOK BETTER.

A beta is NOT used to show off graphics. It is simply used to tweak gameplay, balnce weapons, balance maps, find glitches, and get feedback (from the public, in this case). Bungie even stated MONTHS AGO that this would NOT be the final graphics.

Developers have crews that are dedicated to textures. People dedicated to enviornmental elements (trees, rocks, etc.). People dedicated to special effects. Crews specifically charged with the games lighting, etc. Do you really think these dozens of people just stop working for the last 6 months? ARE YOU CRAZY? Thjey do not take 6 month coffee breaks at the final phase before the game goes gold. Thney will enhance textures, they will enhance enviornmental elements. As the code gets optimized they will add more elements. The guys working on specail effect, bump mapping, and lighting will continue to tweak and implement their code. This will happen UNTIL THE GAME GOES GOLD.

Please stop trying to convinve people of you game development method, as it is wrong. Developers CAN AND WILL enhance a game until the final day of development comes to an end. It doesn't mean Halo 3 will look better than now... but certainly is iwithin the posiibilities and probably VERY likely

Chloroformality

You said, and I quote, "Beta is simply used to ... find glitches..." Does that exclude graphical glitches? Because they are the most common, often the most troublesome, and sometimes can be quite hard to find, especially in the thick of multiplayer gameplay of all things.

And, no, I don't believe the entire art team stops working the second MULTIPLAYER BETA starts, duh. We haven't really seen anything of Single Player, yet, which makes me assume that they're not quite done with it yet. So, chances are they're spending a nice amount of time on the rest of the Single Player mode.

And, code has nothing to do with the art team, those would be the technical artists. The best they can do at this stage is create scrips that help the team better animate things, not to mention tweak the AI, pre-scripted events, etc. The bulk of the scipting that goes into the artistic look of the game is already in the engine. They just have to manage things accordingly, so the framerate can stay solid.

Lighting, bump mapping, and special effects (which I'm assuming you mean particles) are all already taken care of by the engine, no more programming to be done there.

..... and this is not MY developement method, it's THE developement method. God only knows how many other people here have actually picked up Maya and modeled/imported a static mesh for a game. My guess is very few.

But, whatever makes you guys feel better. 

Changing textures would not cause additional glitches at all.  That is like saying the structure of a house needs to change depending on the color of wallpaper you are applying.  It is just a texture overlay on a wire frame.  The only thing changing textures could do is slow down the framerate beause of the need to process additional information.  And they will tweak all of that.

All though different special effects, including particle, may be built into the engine, it does not mean they have implemented all of them in the beta, nor does it mean that they won't further tweak those details as the game gets closer to being published.

ALSO...  and this is very important...  this is not their final testing phase.  This is a PUBLIC BETA for feedback and a larger database to catch glitches.  They will still have a testing team that looks for glitches and test enhancments all the way until the game goes gold.  The public betas main purpose is to find out what THE PUBLIC likes and dislikes.

You sound like you know a bit about game development, but you are wrong about these basic principles.  The graphics can be tweaked all the way to development.  I do think you are right that they will probably not re-do all the animations, for example, as that would be a lot of work.  But texture work is SIMPLE to fix in a game. All other aspects of the game can be tweaked if neeeded and then they WILL re-test those features, but with PAID GAME TESTERS. The Graphics engines have thousands of settings that can be adjusted.  if they didn't...  every game would look exactly the same.  So they can constantly tweak those adjustments to make the game look more and more like their visions of it.  

Most games do NOT have a public beta. In NO WAY is this the final word on what the game will look like.  But if it does...  I am totally cool with it so far.  Seriously...  you are wrong about this.  I am not trying to make you feel bad about being wrong, I am just trying to correctly inform you and others who love to pass on mis-information.

I am not a developer...  but I can tell you the twenty years of experience I have with all of this if you really need me to. And come Monday morning, there will be about 80 developers in the offices next door to mine that I can confirm all of this with.  Though...  I really don't like them to know I chat in forums...  they won't show me as much stuff if they know I do.

[QUOTE="Rob2223"]you do not know anything about developing and producing a videogame.Chloroformality

Do you? 

did you imply that? yes.

[QUOTE="Rob2223"]you do not know anything about developing and producing a videogame.Chloroformality

Do you?

Yes I do. Some companies work on graphics first, enhancing gameplay and fixing bugs last. Others, bungie for one, does gameplay first and polishes/graphic ehancements last. 

First of all, to answer your question because the game won't come out for another 5 months.

second, i didn't know you work for bungie, thats pretty cool how you went on the process of making a game

third, your and idiot, Graphics already look great, and do you really think Microsoft would let their top game look like crap.

Changing textures would not cause additional glitches at all. That is like saying the structure of a house needs to change depending on the color of wallpaper you are applying. It is just a texture overlay on a wire frame. The only thing changing textures could do is slow down the framerate beause of the need to process additional information. And they will tweak all of that.

All though different special effects, including particle, may be built into the engine, it does not mean they have implemented all of them in the beta, nor does it mean that they won't further tweak those details as the game gets closer to being published.

ALSO... and this is very important... this is not their final testing phase. This is a PUBLIC BETA for feedback and a larger database to catch glitches. They will still have a testing team that looks for glitches and test enhancments all the way until the game goes gold. The public betas main purpose is to find out what THE PUBLIC likes and dislikes.

You sound like you know a bit about game development, but you are wrong about these basic principles. The graphics can be tweaked all the way to development. I do think you are right that they will probably not re-do all the animations, for example, as that would be a lot of work. But texture work is SIMPLE to fix in a game. All other aspects of the game can be tweaked if neeeded and then they WILL re-test those features, but with PAID GAME TESTERS. The Graphics engines have thousands of settings that can be adjusted. if they didn't... every game would look exactly the same. So they can constantly tweak those adjustments to make the game look more and more like their visions of it.

Most games do NOT have a public beta. In NO WAY is this the final word on what the game will look like. But if it does... I am totally cool with it so far. Seriously... you are wrong about this. I am not trying to make you feel bad about being wrong, I am just trying to correctly inform you and others who love to pass on mis-information.

I am not a developer... but I can tell you the twenty years of experience I have with all of this if you really need me to. And come Monday morning, there will be about 80 developers in the offices next door to mine that I can confirm all of this with. Though... I really don't like them to know I chat in forums... they won't show me as much stuff if they know I do.

Mystikef

You are somewhat right about them changine the textures and adding in more effects, but the funny thing is nobody would really notice. A few might, but not many.

And I doubt they'll change much of the textures, because to change them means you have to redo certain other things (mapping, for instance).

Perhaps people misunderstood Bungie when they said the game would look better. Maybe they were implying the core of the game (single player) would look better. Which I have no doubt it will. I'm just waiting for some damn screens.

And most of the time, a company public tests a game to save some money. I learned that in a class of mine and thought it was a little interesting. Though, it is also to get some feedback.

And umm.... what exactly do you do? 

[QUOTE="Chloroformality"]

[QUOTE="Rob2223"]you do not know anything about developing and producing a videogame.Rob2223

Do you?

did you imply that? yes.

Yet you implied that I knew nothing about developement.

I don't just play these things, you know. 

[QUOTE="Rob2223"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"]

[QUOTE="Rob2223"]you do not know anything about developing and producing a videogame.Chloroformality

Do you?

did you imply that? yes.

Yet you implied that I knew nothing about developement.

I don't just play these things, you know. 

Bungie has stated explicitly that there will be graphical improvements and that this test is more to work on balancing of the multiplayer and matchmaking than anything else. hazuki87

And you just automatically believe them?

Not even Bungie knows what problems they may face one, two, or five moneths down the road. 

You are somewhat right about them changine the textures and adding in more effects, but the funny thing is nobody would really notice. A few might, but not many.

And I doubt they'll change much of the textures, because to change them means you have to redo certain other things (mapping, for instance).

Perhaps people misunderstood Bungie when they said the game would look better. Maybe they were implying the core of the game (single player) would look better. Which I have no doubt it will. I'm just waiting for some damn screens.

And most of the time, a company public tests a game to save some money. I learned that in a class of mine and thought it was a little interesting. Though, it is also to get some feedback.

 

And umm.... what exactly do you do? 

 

Chloroformality

So you just admitted that the graphics can improve.  Changing the mapping and textures is NOT that difficult.  Textures and mapping do not affect  other aspects of the game, like framing, hit detection, animations, etc.  These are easy adjustments that can NOTICABLE improve graphics. But you are forgetting about the simple stuff.  For example: They could add multi-colored flowers waving in the wind on the grassy fields.  They can add tons of little details that have no basic effect on gameplay or physics.  They have 6 months to add details.  AND they can still tweak the engines built-in effects, and possibly add more.

My brief History (per your request)

I started programming when I was 12 and began building rudimentary games.  That was about twenty years ago.  I can program in 5 different languages, though three are no longer used. I have been playing video games since I was about 7...  about 25 years now.

For the last ten years I have been working in the entertainment industry.  I attend E3 as an industry professional, as my particular work crosses over into interactive entertainment.  Currently, I am working on two television shows.  The production office of one of my shows shares the floor and offices with Infinity Ward.  Our offices and their offices are friendly and we have group functions and they give us free Call of Duty paraphenalia and we give them things from our show as well. (incidentally... their game room rocks!!). Do some research and you might be able to figure out which show I work on.  I'll give you the clue that our offices are on Ventura Blvd. in Encino.

One of my best friends has written script for numerous video games.  I have another that is co-developing games with Ubisoft.  He is also developing arcade-style games with a smaller company (I don't know their names).  I am friends with dozensvoice-over actors from some of the most popular video games.  For example, Rachel, from Ninja Gaiden...  I was playing poke with her husband and other VO actors last Thursday.  You can look her up on IMDb.com if you want to know who she is and how much VO work she does.  I work directly and daily with ALL the agencies in town that provide the voice over talent for video games, including the giants, ICM (the VO department is now DPN), WMA, CAA, Endeavor, Paradigm, CESD, etc.

I could go on...   But though I am not a developer, I am in the industry, I know developers, I hang out with some of the best developers in the world, I program, and I am old enough to have learned a great deal about one of my favorite hobbies for the last 25 years.

I am guessing you are taking a college course and that is where you are getting your 101 level information.  If you had graduated...  you'd know better.