Warren Spector Calls Gamers to Action Oct19 to 'Protect' the Video Game Industry

Hello Fellow Gamers,

This is serious stuff...please follow the second link at the end of this message and give your support or the future of the Video Game Industry could be in jeopardy!

On November 2nd the U.S. Supreme Court will hear arguments on the constitutionality of a California law that would restrict the sale of video games, if passed this law will adversely affect the future of the Video Game Industry. If you care about video games and want to keep the censorship out of them or allow the developers to continuing making their games the way they want to make them, then please, please give your support!

Warren Spector's message on Shack News: http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/66050

Video Game Voter's Network:

http://videogamevoters.org/page/s/nocensorship?source=20101014nocensorship&utm_medium=email&utm_source=vgvn&utm_campaign=20101014nocensorship

If there is one thing anyone can agree on, even in SW, its this. So please fellow SW members, even the ones who use ban dodge accounts or constantly hate on a system they do not own yet claim they do, make sure to protect the rights of videogames and support free speech.

Would this affected the UK? God damn America with its false veil of freedom. :x

isn't this just to keep M rated games out of the hands of minors? If so I don't care. SAGE_OF_FIRE

Absolutely not, this is a bill that would essentially give videogames the same treatment as pornography and means they would no longer be protected by the first amendment. It would mean slapping a big 18 on games, making them as accessable as before to minors who really want them, but with an extra bit of censorship across the board. Imagine if this law was in place when GTA III got made, you know what would have become of most games today without that foray into open world and adult games?

Its ignorant to think its just something to keep kids from playing games when the ESRB already does a better job then the music or movie industry do at labeling games.

[QUOTE="SAGE_OF_FIRE"]isn't this just to keep M rated games out of the hands of minors? If so I don't care. SPYDER0416

Absolutely not, this is a bill that would essentially give videogames the same treatment as pornography and means they would no longer be protected by the first amendment. It would mean slapping a big 18 on games, making them as accessable as before to minors who really want them, but with an extra bit of censorship across the board. Imagine if this law was in place when GTA III got made, you know what would have become of most games today without that foray into open world and adult games?

Its ignorant to think its just something to keep kids from playing games when the ESRB already does a better job then the music or movie industry do at labeling games.

No that's not at all what it's about

It's to make games clearly aimed at adults listed and sold as such

The whole "oh they'll censor it" is crap and not true

Gamers need to do everything they can to get this law passed

is the VGV Network only for people in the USA because it ays invalid zip/postal code on mine, so what would this court ruling actually do to games?

Done. Games are certainly of the same protection as film and literature.

Doesn't this law restrict the sale of violent games to minors? Is that not just common sense? Ninja-Hippo

You would think that.

Doesn't this law restrict the sale of violent games to minors? Is that not just common sense? Ninja-Hippo

If this was just about restricting the sales of games to minors then I would support this bill 100% but its not so...

[QUOTE="SPYDER0416"]

[QUOTE="SAGE_OF_FIRE"]isn't this just to keep M rated games out of the hands of minors? If so I don't care. Jaysonguy

Absolutely not, this is a bill that would essentially give videogames the same treatment as pornography and means they would no longer be protected by the first amendment. It would mean slapping a big 18 on games, making them as accessable as before to minors who really want them, but with an extra bit of censorship across the board. Imagine if this law was in place when GTA III got made, you know what would have become of most games today without that foray into open world and adult games?

Its ignorant to think its just something to keep kids from playing games when the ESRB already does a better job then the music or movie industry do at labeling games.

No that's not at all what it's about

It's to make games clearly aimed at adults listed and sold as such

The whole "oh they'll censor it" is crap and not true

Gamers need to do everything they can to get this law passed

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]Doesn't this law restrict the sale of violent games to minors? Is that not just common sense? Ilikemyname420

[QUOTE="Ilikemyname420"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]Doesn't this law restrict the sale of violent games to minors? Is that not just common sense? testfactor888

I truely doubt this bill is going to treat games like pornography. That for obvious reasons is stupid. It will most likely restrict games sales to those who the game is clearly aimed for. no problem with that in my eyes.

C'mon, older gamers always complain about little whining kids in their online games. This bill could solve that problem.

I dont believe its this law itself that is worrying people, its there will be a precedent for future laws that will further censor the industry. redstormrisen

What is there to worry about though? At worse games get trated like movies, I don't see the big deal with that. Thecensorship is only going to affect people who aren't even mature enough to be touching those games in the first place. The worst worst case senario is that the pubs censor content to appeal more to the masses but pubs are dumb and they do that already.

I dont believe its this law itself that is worrying people, its there will be a precedent for future laws that will further censor the industry. redstormrisen

Bingo.

My biggest concern would be games getting categorized as "simulation" rather than "art".

Here's a link to an article on GS that provides a better perspective on the situation.

Excerpt:

"The United States Chamber of Commerce also offered its two cents, stating, "California's law fails strict scrutiny because a ban on the sale or rental of violent video games to minors is not the least restrictive alternative to protecting them from age-inappropriate media content. Industry self-regulation is a highly effective and less restrictive alternative.""

A case like this only reaches the Supreme Court through appeals, which means they have to go through all the lower courts first and if they don't like the results they move on to a higher one to hopefullly get a different outcome.

The judges of these courts ruled the law as unconstitutional, but sympathized with their efforts. Now ask yourself why did they rule it as unconstitutional if this is only about restricting sales to minors?

[QUOTE="SPYDER0416"]

[QUOTE="SAGE_OF_FIRE"]isn't this just to keep M rated games out of the hands of minors? If so I don't care. Jaysonguy

Absolutely not, this is a bill that would essentially give videogames the same treatment as pornography and means they would no longer be protected by the first amendment. It would mean slapping a big 18 on games, making them as accessable as before to minors who really want them, but with an extra bit of censorship across the board. Imagine if this law was in place when GTA III got made, you know what would have become of most games today without that foray into open world and adult games?

Its ignorant to think its just something to keep kids from playing games when the ESRB already does a better job then the music or movie industry do at labeling games.

No that's not at all what it's about

It's to make games clearly aimed at adults listed and sold as such

The whole "oh they'll censor it" is crap and not true

Gamers need to do everything they can to get this law passed

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. The ESRB already exists to do just that, all this bill will do is make it slightly harder, but that won't take away all those 12 year olds who really love CoD. If you did a little reading instead of blindly assuming it will work out like they say it will then you might know that, but if it gets passed then have fun dealing with censored games that can no longer use the first amendment.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="SPYDER0416"]

Absolutely not, this is a bill that would essentially give videogames the same treatment as pornography and means they would no longer be protected by the first amendment. It would mean slapping a big 18 on games, making them as accessable as before to minors who really want them, but with an extra bit of censorship across the board. Imagine if this law was in place when GTA III got made, you know what would have become of most games today without that foray into open world and adult games?

Its ignorant to think its just something to keep kids from playing games when the ESRB already does a better job then the music or movie industry do at labeling games.

SPYDER0416

No that's not at all what it's about

It's to make games clearly aimed at adults listed and sold as such

The whole "oh they'll censor it" is crap and not true

Gamers need to do everything they can to get this law passed

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. The ESRB already exists to do just that, all this bill will do is make it slightly harder, but that won't take away all those 12 year olds who really love CoD. If you did a little reading instead of blindly assuming it will work out like they say it will then you might know that, but if it gets passed then have fun dealing with censored games that can no longer use the first amendment.

I'm all for this law and hopes it makes it through maybe then developers go back to making games the way they used to be instead of making these gritty gory games which make young people hardcore.

Would this affected the UK? God damn America with its false veil of freedom. :x

WhenCicadasCry

[QUOTE="SPYDER0416"]

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

No that's not at all what it's about

It's to make games clearly aimed at adults listed and sold as such

The whole "oh they'll censor it" is crap and not true

Gamers need to do everything they can to get this law passed

loadedboon

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. The ESRB already exists to do just that, all this bill will do is make it slightly harder, but that won't take away all those 12 year olds who really love CoD. If you did a little reading instead of blindly assuming it will work out like they say it will then you might know that, but if it gets passed then have fun dealing with censored games that can no longer use the first amendment.

I'm all for this law and hopes it makes it through maybe then developers go back to making games the way they used to be instead of making these gritty gory games which make young people hardcore.

[QUOTE="loadedboon"]

[QUOTE="SPYDER0416"]

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. The ESRB already exists to do just that, all this bill will do is make it slightly harder, but that won't take away all those 12 year olds who really love CoD. If you did a little reading instead of blindly assuming it will work out like they say it will then you might know that, but if it gets passed then have fun dealing with censored games that can no longer use the first amendment.

ZIVX

I'm all for this law and hopes it makes it through maybe then developers go back to making games the way they used to be instead of making these gritty gory games which make young people hardcore.

I don't care I say away with all those generic crappy games and back to the days when games where are a form of art!

I don't care I say away with all those generic crappy games and back to the days when games where are a form of art!

loadedboon

I'm well aware that you're likely trolling this thread, but what days were those? Around 1992 when Mortal Kombat was released?

[QUOTE="loadedboon"]

I don't care I say away with all those generic crappy games and back to the days when games where are a form of art!

gamecubepad

I'm well aware that you're likely trolling this thread, but what days were those? Around 1992 when Mortal Kombat was released?

I know right? The days when we had 2 guys back to back shooting a bunch of aliens with no context, plot, emotions or absolutely anything related to art. THAT was when games were art, not tdaoy with games like Heavy Rain or Bioshock.

I hope you all note the sarcasm because some of the things I've heard in this thread are dumber then things I've heard in other SW threads, so if you believed me it wouldn't be too far fetched for someone to be serious.

Good luck with that fellas. No matter what happens over there,it ain't affecting me!ZippySlappy

[QUOTE="gamecubepad"]

[QUOTE="loadedboon"]

I don't care I say away with all those generic crappy games and back to the days when games where are a form of art!

SPYDER0416

I'm well aware that you're likely trolling this thread, but what days were those? Around 1992 when Mortal Kombat was released?

I know right? The days when we had 2 guys back to back shooting a bunch of aliens with no context, plot, emotions or absolutely anything related to art. THAT was when games were art, not tdaoy with games like Heavy Rain or Bioshock.

I hope you all note the sarcasm because some of the things I've heard in this thread are dumber then things I've heard in other SW threads, so if you believed me it wouldn't be too far fetched for someone to be serious.

[QUOTE="ZippySlappy"]Good luck with that fellas. No matter what happens over there,it ain't affecting me!SilverChimera

If this law passes the Supreme Court would effectively be agreeing that:

"(a) Exposing minors to depictions of violence in video games, including sexual and heinous violence, makes those minors more likely to experience feelings of aggression, to experience a reduction of activity in the frontal loves of the brain, and to exhibit violent antisocial or aggressive behavior.

(b) Even minors who do not commit acts of violence suffer psychological harm from prolonged exposure to violent video games."

So the question is, do you want a law establishing the precedent that video games are harmful?

This law would also make video games the only entertainment industry regulated by the government. The restrictions on film and music (& esrb) are industry enforced. But, basically, this is a materialization of the idea that video games are not a serious medium-- a law that lets state governments decide who can watch what movie or read what book would be incomprehensible, but somehow this makes sense to some people

Good luck with that fellas. No matter what happens over there,it ain't affecting me!ZippySlappy

Do you guys want your Video Games to be handled like they are in Australia?

isn't this just to keep M rated games out of the hands of minors? If so I don't care. SAGE_OF_FIRE

if retailers can be fined for accidently breaching the law and selling an M game to a minor, they won't want to risk that happening and thus will not carry the game. if retailers won't carry the game, then developers will have no incentive to make those games. that's the idea anyway. considering the possiblity of that happening, it's just better for there to be no law and leave the responsibility to parents.

Not to mention that this could potentially harm other forms of etertainment. That's is why the entire entertainment industry is in an uproar about this case. Authors, comic book artists, movie directors, etc. they are all attacking this proposed law as an enemy of freedom of speech.

Not to mention that this could potentially harm other forms of etertainment. That's is why the entire entertainment industry is in an uproar about this case. Authors, comic book artists, movie directors, etc. they are all attacking this proposed law as an enemy of freedom of speech.

ZIVX

The entire entertainment industry is in an uproar is that why this isn't big news anywhere except you people who over react and make it seem bigger then it in reality is.

[QUOTE="ZIVX"]

Not to mention that this could potentially harm other forms of etertainment. That's is why the entire entertainment industry is in an uproar about this case. Authors, comic book artists, movie directors, etc. they are all attacking this proposed law as an enemy of freedom of speech.

loadedboon

The entire entertainment industry is in an uproar is that why this isn't big news anywhere except you people who over react and make it seem bigger then it in reality is.

*some of the entertainment industry is in an uproar*

[QUOTE="loadedboon"]

[QUOTE="ZIVX"]

Not to mention that this could potentially harm other forms of etertainment. That's is why the entire entertainment industry is in an uproar about this case. Authors, comic book artists, movie directors, etc. they are all attacking this proposed law as an enemy of freedom of speech.

ZIVX

The entire entertainment industry is in an uproar is that why this isn't big news anywhere except you people who over react and make it seem bigger then it in reality is.

*some of the entertainment industry is in an uproar*

Well let them be in an uproar they brought it upon themselves.

I'm all for keeping 12 year olds outta my MP FPS games.

"Let's not beat around the bush -- if the Court's ruling goes against us, this law could lead to the future censorship of games, could irrevocably harm developers and would validate the absurd notion that video games are somehow a lesser form of creative expression."

nuff said. Totally with you Warren Spector.

[QUOTE="ZIVX"]

[QUOTE="loadedboon"]

The entire entertainment industry is in an uproar is that why this isn't big news anywhere except you people who over react and make it seem bigger then it in reality is.

loadedboon

*some of the entertainment industry is in an uproar*

Well let them be in an uproar they brought it upon themselves.

I'm confused, when I was under 17 and wanted an M game, my mom or dad just came with me. So wouldn't the big difference just be that the parent has to say "oh gee wizz I can't wait to play Black Ops" with the kid right next to her instead of just standing over the counter to approve.