U.S. Senator Josh Hawley introduces bill to ban loot boxes and pay-to-win microtransactions

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Avatar image for MirkoS77
#101 Posted by MirkoS77 (14055 posts) -

I don’t think this has a chance, though it’d be nice to see.

Avatar image for WESTBLADE
#102 Posted by WESTBLADE (391 posts) -
@davillain- said:

Few pointers;

  1. Don't link your credit card to your child's gaming account.
  2. Teach your children self control.

3. If you are stupid, don't have kids at all.

Avatar image for ajstyles
#103 Edited by AJStyles (736 posts) -

Loot boxes make games worse.

I don’t care about the prices and I don’t have kids. I have self control.

My main issue is the poor implementation of loot boxes in video games which turn them into massive grinds.

So many games are only fun at the start, as you progress it gets harder and more grinding is required which saps the fun out of them.

I shouldn’t have to grind for a loot box and hope I get the thing I needed to progress further. Most times I get a double of something...which is infuriating. That should never happen in any video game.

Avatar image for Xabiss
#104 Edited by Xabiss (2495 posts) -

@Jag85 said:
@Xabiss said:
@Jag85 said:
@Xabiss said:

Nope a lot of this comes down to parenting, get over it. Guess what when I went to HS people carried rifles/shotguns in their trucks and we never had any issues. We actually had gun safety classes at the HS I went to and guess what no issues. Sorry parenting is different now and it is the cause to a lot of the issues we have today. Also the blame someone else for my issues is another problem we have. Just look at the student loan debt issue. Everyone is blaming everyone else except for the person who took the loans. So please stop everyone needs to step back and take some damn responsibility for their shitty actions period.

On the other side of the pond, we don't have to worry about school shootings at all. Or have to worry about toddlers accidentally playing with guns (Americans are shot dead by toddlers on a weekly basis). You know why? Because we actually addressed the issue with guns a long time ago, instead of using "bad parenting" as a cop-out excuse to bury our heads in the sand.

According to your own logic, we should not be blaming the parents, but blaming everything on the child and the child alone. Which of course would be ridiculous. We know children are easily influenced, whether it's by their parents, school environment, peer pressure, and/or predatory business practices. It's not a zero-sum game. You can do both: blame the individual who made a certain decision, AND blame others who influenced the individual to make such a decision. And among those influences are predatory business practices designed to manipulate and brainwash children into spending extortionate amounts of money.

Not once did I say blame the children you twit. So now you are making shit up to make an argument. Again you are blaming the gun instead of the majority of people that are doing these senseless acts have had major mental health issues. I honestly think that is where are focus should be. If you think banning guns is the answer ask the Venezuela people how that is working out for them right now. So please stop with your senseless bullshit.

Also with the toddler shooting people. Again that is the parents issue not securing their weapons properly. Again put the blame where it needs to be. Parents not being responsible. I own many guns and guess what they are in a locked closet in another locked gun safe. You know why, because I am responsible.

Now get off your high horse and stick to the subject at hand. You are for a big government that controls everything and with that philosophy I believe you are an idiot. When you do something stupid next time I am sure you will blame someone else for your misfortune. Such as buying loot boxes and micro-transactions. ROFLMAO!

I said "according to your own logic" (that we should stop "blaming everyone else except for the person"), we should stop blaming the parents and only blame the child. When someone says "according to your own logic", it doesn't mean that's what you actually said, but it means that's the logical conclusion of your argument. Learn to read. The point is that children are influenced by a number of things, not just the parents, but also school, friends, family, and yes, predatory business practices. Yet, for some irrational reason, you choose to single-out the parents and ignore all the other influences.

Venezuela? Are you having a laugh? If comparing America to a third-world country is the best you can do, then that's just weak. Most actual first-world countries have gun restrictions. And guess what? Virtually every first-world country has lower rates of violence than America. Clearly because gun restrictions work. But that's an entirely different topic (in response to your "blame the parents" nonsense).

The point still stands that loot boxes are predatory business practices designed to manipulate, brainwash and entice children into giving extortionate amounts of money to "big corporation". And you clearly have no counter-argument against that, hence why you keep resorting to whataboutism, in an attempt to divert the discussion away from the actual topic itself (loot boxes) towards an entirely different topic (e.g. "blame the parents").

P.S. I don't pay for loot-boxes or micro-transactions. But I'm sure a "big corporation" shill such as yourself does.

Because it is easy to see that parents most of the time are to blame for what their kids are doing. It is pretty damn easy to figure it out. We have an alarming amount of divorce in our country and split families. It is pretty damn obvious this is having an effect on our children today. We also have a record amount of both parents having to work to make ends meet and not paying attention to what their kids are doing at home.

Just because Venezuela is a third world country means absolutely nothing. It shows what happens when government has all the guns and the population has been disarmed. This is why we have a second amendment. Get over it! BTW London which has not guns has a knife issue and it is already becoming more violent then NY city. Guess what now they are looking into taking those away now. ROFL!

We are the reason loot boxes are popular period. That is all the counter argument I need. As the consumer we can easily fix this practice by not purchasing them and not supporting games that have them. We don't need the government to help with this, but since you are from Europe you love the government coming in and saving the day. Hell you want the government to be your parent which is so cute.

P.S. BTW **** boy I don't buy loot boxes and don't support them, but I see no issue with the practice. I don't want government snooping into gaming period. We all control the ability to get rid of loot boxes by not purchasing them. Hell as gamers we have already destroyed some games that support it and the industry is already taking notice.

Avatar image for SecretPolice
#105 Posted by SecretPolice (35093 posts) -

The bigger the gubment, the smaller the citizen.

The number of indoctrinated useful idiots in the world these days is frightening to freedom and liberty loving, independent, rugged individualism, people. :(.

Most of the time, the last thing you want to hear is, I'm with the government and I'm here to help. lol :P

Avatar image for Jag85
#106 Posted by Jag85 (13353 posts) -
@Xabiss said:
@Jag85 said:
@Xabiss said:
@Jag85 said:

On the other side of the pond, we don't have to worry about school shootings at all. Or have to worry about toddlers accidentally playing with guns (Americans are shot dead by toddlers on a weekly basis). You know why? Because we actually addressed the issue with guns a long time ago, instead of using "bad parenting" as a cop-out excuse to bury our heads in the sand.

According to your own logic, we should not be blaming the parents, but blaming everything on the child and the child alone. Which of course would be ridiculous. We know children are easily influenced, whether it's by their parents, school environment, peer pressure, and/or predatory business practices. It's not a zero-sum game. You can do both: blame the individual who made a certain decision, AND blame others who influenced the individual to make such a decision. And among those influences are predatory business practices designed to manipulate and brainwash children into spending extortionate amounts of money.

Not once did I say blame the children you twit. So now you are making shit up to make an argument. Again you are blaming the gun instead of the majority of people that are doing these senseless acts have had major mental health issues. I honestly think that is where are focus should be. If you think banning guns is the answer ask the Venezuela people how that is working out for them right now. So please stop with your senseless bullshit.

Also with the toddler shooting people. Again that is the parents issue not securing their weapons properly. Again put the blame where it needs to be. Parents not being responsible. I own many guns and guess what they are in a locked closet in another locked gun safe. You know why, because I am responsible.

Now get off your high horse and stick to the subject at hand. You are for a big government that controls everything and with that philosophy I believe you are an idiot. When you do something stupid next time I am sure you will blame someone else for your misfortune. Such as buying loot boxes and micro-transactions. ROFLMAO!

I said "according to your own logic" (that we should stop "blaming everyone else except for the person"), we should stop blaming the parents and only blame the child. When someone says "according to your own logic", it doesn't mean that's what you actually said, but it means that's the logical conclusion of your argument. Learn to read. The point is that children are influenced by a number of things, not just the parents, but also school, friends, family, and yes, predatory business practices. Yet, for some irrational reason, you choose to single-out the parents and ignore all the other influences.

Venezuela? Are you having a laugh? If comparing America to a third-world country is the best you can do, then that's just weak. Most actual first-world countries have gun restrictions. And guess what? Virtually every first-world country has lower rates of violence than America. Clearly because gun restrictions work. But that's an entirely different topic (in response to your "blame the parents" nonsense).

The point still stands that loot boxes are predatory business practices designed to manipulate, brainwash and entice children into giving extortionate amounts of money to "big corporation". And you clearly have no counter-argument against that, hence why you keep resorting to whataboutism, in an attempt to divert the discussion away from the actual topic itself (loot boxes) towards an entirely different topic (e.g. "blame the parents").

P.S. I don't pay for loot-boxes or micro-transactions. But I'm sure a "big corporation" shill such as yourself does.

Because it is easy to see that parents most of the time are to blame for what their kids are doing. It is pretty damn easy to figure it out. We have an alarming amount of divorce in our country and split families. It is pretty damn obvious this is having an effect on our children today. We also have a record amount of both parents having to work to make ends meet and not paying attention to what their kids are doing at home.

Just because Venezuela is a third world country means absolutely nothing. It shows what happens when government has all the guns and the population has been disarmed. This is why we have a second amendment. Get over it! BTW London which has not guns has a knife issue and it is already becoming more violent then NY city. Guess what now they are looking into taking those away now. ROFL!

We are the reason loot boxes are popular period. That is all the counter argument I need. As the consumer we can easily fix this practice by not purchasing them and not supporting games that have them. We don't need the government to help with this, but since you are from Europe you love the government coming in and saving the day. Hell you want the government to be your parent which is so cute.

P.S. BTW **** boy I don't buy loot boxes and don't support them, but I see no issue with the practice. I don't want government snooping into gaming period. We all control the ability to get rid of loot boxes by not purchasing them. Hell as gamers we have already destroyed some games that support it and the industry is already taking notice.

The point is that it's irrational to single-out a single factor and ignore all the other factors. Bad parenting is part of the equation, not the entire equation. And that's a side-issue, not the main issue, the fact that loot boxes are being targeted towards children. To keep blaming the parents for everything just comes across as whataboutism, to divert attention away from the actual topic.

That's not true. London only surpassed NYC's crime rates for a single month last year, due to a lack of government funding for police and community services. For every other month of the year, NYC had higher crime rates than London. And when comparing entire nations, the UK and virtually every other Western European country has lower crime rates than the US.

You keep ignoring the fact that loot boxes are being targeted towards children. What adults do with loot boxes is entirely their own business. But when you have loot boxes being targeted towards children, that's a whole different issue.

I don't see an issue with loot boxes either from a business point of view. But I also don't have an issue with people being concerned about the morality of loot boxes, and the harmful effects it can have on children. That's a discussion that needs to be had.

Avatar image for calvincfb
#107 Posted by Calvincfb (943 posts) -

This place is filled with corporate shills.

Avatar image for goldenelementxl
#108 Posted by GoldenElementXL (3045 posts) -

@calvincfb said:

This place is filled with corporate shills.

And crybaby millennials that need somebody else to do everything for them. I know life choices are hard, but the government making all of your decisions for you is a little extreme...

Avatar image for fedor
#109 Posted by Fedor (4611 posts) -

@calvincfb said:

This place is filled with corporate shills.

Says the bootlicker. Bend over for your ideological superiors.

Avatar image for calvincfb
#110 Edited by Calvincfb (943 posts) -

@goldenelementxl said:
@calvincfb said:

This place is filled with corporate shills.

And crybaby millennials that need somebody else to do everything for them. I know life choices are hard, but the government making all of your decisions for you is a little extreme...

I'm not the one writing essays defending the government or the corporations, hence, I'm no shill lmao, keep up with the effort, though, I'm sure the shareholders are loving you working for them for free. ;)

Avatar image for calvincfb
#111 Posted by Calvincfb (943 posts) -

@fedor said:
@calvincfb said:

This place is filled with corporate shills.

Says the bootlicker. Bend over for your ideological superiors.

I'm sorry, who are you again?

Avatar image for fedor
#112 Edited by Fedor (4611 posts) -

@calvincfb: A guy laughing at you.

Please engage me.

Avatar image for calvincfb
#113 Posted by Calvincfb (943 posts) -

@fedor said:

@calvincfb: A guy laughing at you.

Please engage me.

Nobody, then, thanks for the info.

Avatar image for fedor
#114 Posted by Fedor (4611 posts) -

@calvincfb: Check that comma use, lady.

Avatar image for Xabiss
#115 Edited by Xabiss (2495 posts) -

@Jag85 said:
@Xabiss said:
@Jag85 said:
@Xabiss said:

Not once did I say blame the children you twit. So now you are making shit up to make an argument. Again you are blaming the gun instead of the majority of people that are doing these senseless acts have had major mental health issues. I honestly think that is where are focus should be. If you think banning guns is the answer ask the Venezuela people how that is working out for them right now. So please stop with your senseless bullshit.

Also with the toddler shooting people. Again that is the parents issue not securing their weapons properly. Again put the blame where it needs to be. Parents not being responsible. I own many guns and guess what they are in a locked closet in another locked gun safe. You know why, because I am responsible.

Now get off your high horse and stick to the subject at hand. You are for a big government that controls everything and with that philosophy I believe you are an idiot. When you do something stupid next time I am sure you will blame someone else for your misfortune. Such as buying loot boxes and micro-transactions. ROFLMAO!

I said "according to your own logic" (that we should stop "blaming everyone else except for the person"), we should stop blaming the parents and only blame the child. When someone says "according to your own logic", it doesn't mean that's what you actually said, but it means that's the logical conclusion of your argument. Learn to read. The point is that children are influenced by a number of things, not just the parents, but also school, friends, family, and yes, predatory business practices. Yet, for some irrational reason, you choose to single-out the parents and ignore all the other influences.

Venezuela? Are you having a laugh? If comparing America to a third-world country is the best you can do, then that's just weak. Most actual first-world countries have gun restrictions. And guess what? Virtually every first-world country has lower rates of violence than America. Clearly because gun restrictions work. But that's an entirely different topic (in response to your "blame the parents" nonsense).

The point still stands that loot boxes are predatory business practices designed to manipulate, brainwash and entice children into giving extortionate amounts of money to "big corporation". And you clearly have no counter-argument against that, hence why you keep resorting to whataboutism, in an attempt to divert the discussion away from the actual topic itself (loot boxes) towards an entirely different topic (e.g. "blame the parents").

P.S. I don't pay for loot-boxes or micro-transactions. But I'm sure a "big corporation" shill such as yourself does.

Because it is easy to see that parents most of the time are to blame for what their kids are doing. It is pretty damn easy to figure it out. We have an alarming amount of divorce in our country and split families. It is pretty damn obvious this is having an effect on our children today. We also have a record amount of both parents having to work to make ends meet and not paying attention to what their kids are doing at home.

Just because Venezuela is a third world country means absolutely nothing. It shows what happens when government has all the guns and the population has been disarmed. This is why we have a second amendment. Get over it! BTW London which has not guns has a knife issue and it is already becoming more violent then NY city. Guess what now they are looking into taking those away now. ROFL!

We are the reason loot boxes are popular period. That is all the counter argument I need. As the consumer we can easily fix this practice by not purchasing them and not supporting games that have them. We don't need the government to help with this, but since you are from Europe you love the government coming in and saving the day. Hell you want the government to be your parent which is so cute.

P.S. BTW **** boy I don't buy loot boxes and don't support them, but I see no issue with the practice. I don't want government snooping into gaming period. We all control the ability to get rid of loot boxes by not purchasing them. Hell as gamers we have already destroyed some games that support it and the industry is already taking notice.

The point is that it's irrational to single-out a single factor and ignore all the other factors. Bad parenting is part of the equation, not the entire equation. And that's a side-issue, not the main issue, the fact that loot boxes are being targeted towards children. To keep blaming the parents for everything just comes across as whataboutism, to divert attention away from the actual topic.

That's not true. London only surpassed NYC's crime rates for a single month last year, due to a lack of government funding for police and community services. For every other month of the year, NYC had higher crime rates than London. And when comparing entire nations, the UK and virtually every other Western European country has lower crime rates than the US.

You keep ignoring the fact that loot boxes are being targeted towards children. What adults do with loot boxes is entirely their own business. But when you have loot boxes being targeted towards children, that's a whole different issue.

I don't see an issue with loot boxes either from a business point of view. But I also don't have an issue with people being concerned about the morality of loot boxes, and the harmful effects it can have on children. That's a discussion that needs to be had.

We will never agree about gun control so I am not saying anything else. You like the government controlling your life so not much else to say on the topic.

Exactly my point and the parents should be watching what their kids are doing period. Also saying no does not hurt a child. If parents dont like the game don't let your children play those games. It really is not that hard. Again for whatever reason you don't like taking responsibility for the actions you take. You just like the government to control it and point the blame to someone else.

P.S. I believe in a free market and you believe in a governmental babysitter that rules your life. Nothing really more to say to you.

Avatar image for Xabiss
#116 Posted by Xabiss (2495 posts) -

@goldenelementxl said:
@calvincfb said:

This place is filled with corporate shills.

And crybaby millennials that need somebody else to do everything for them. I know life choices are hard, but the government making all of your decisions for you is a little extreme...

BINGO!

Avatar image for calvincfb
#117 Edited by Calvincfb (943 posts) -

Corporate shills vs government shills, which are the worst of the two, I wonder...

Avatar image for fedor
#118 Posted by Fedor (4611 posts) -

ITT Sony shill who also bends over for the government. A double shill if you will.

Avatar image for Jag85
#119 Posted by Jag85 (13353 posts) -

@Xabiss said:
@Jag85 said:

The point is that it's irrational to single-out a single factor and ignore all the other factors. Bad parenting is part of the equation, not the entire equation. And that's a side-issue, not the main issue, the fact that loot boxes are being targeted towards children. To keep blaming the parents for everything just comes across as whataboutism, to divert attention away from the actual topic.

That's not true. London only surpassed NYC's crime rates for a single month last year, due to a lack of government funding for police and community services. For every other month of the year, NYC had higher crime rates than London. And when comparing entire nations, the UK and virtually every other Western European country has lower crime rates than the US.

You keep ignoring the fact that loot boxes are being targeted towards children. What adults do with loot boxes is entirely their own business. But when you have loot boxes being targeted towards children, that's a whole different issue.

I don't see an issue with loot boxes either from a business point of view. But I also don't have an issue with people being concerned about the morality of loot boxes, and the harmful effects it can have on children. That's a discussion that needs to be had.

We will never agree about gun control so I am not saying anything else. You like the government controlling your life so not much else to say on the topic.

Exactly my point and the parents should be watching what their kids are doing period. Also saying no does not hurt a child. If parents dont like the game don't let your children play those games. It really is not that hard. Again for whatever reason you don't like taking responsibility for the actions you take. You just like the government to control it and point the blame to someone else.

P.S. I believe in a free market and you believe in a governmental babysitter that rules your life. Nothing really more to say to you.

Just like how you guys dislike "big government" on your side of the pond, many of us on the other side of the pond dislike "big corporation", which can often be worse than "big government".

Again, I don't have anything personal against loot-boxes. That doesn't change the fact that many find it fundamentally immoral and harmful for big corporations to be targeting young children with loot boxes. The parents are irrelevant.

But sure, we can just agree to disagree. There's no point continuing this debate any further.

Avatar image for Xabiss
#120 Posted by Xabiss (2495 posts) -

@Jag85 said:
@Xabiss said:
@Jag85 said:

The point is that it's irrational to single-out a single factor and ignore all the other factors. Bad parenting is part of the equation, not the entire equation. And that's a side-issue, not the main issue, the fact that loot boxes are being targeted towards children. To keep blaming the parents for everything just comes across as whataboutism, to divert attention away from the actual topic.

That's not true. London only surpassed NYC's crime rates for a single month last year, due to a lack of government funding for police and community services. For every other month of the year, NYC had higher crime rates than London. And when comparing entire nations, the UK and virtually every other Western European country has lower crime rates than the US.

You keep ignoring the fact that loot boxes are being targeted towards children. What adults do with loot boxes is entirely their own business. But when you have loot boxes being targeted towards children, that's a whole different issue.

I don't see an issue with loot boxes either from a business point of view. But I also don't have an issue with people being concerned about the morality of loot boxes, and the harmful effects it can have on children. That's a discussion that needs to be had.

We will never agree about gun control so I am not saying anything else. You like the government controlling your life so not much else to say on the topic.

Exactly my point and the parents should be watching what their kids are doing period. Also saying no does not hurt a child. If parents dont like the game don't let your children play those games. It really is not that hard. Again for whatever reason you don't like taking responsibility for the actions you take. You just like the government to control it and point the blame to someone else.

P.S. I believe in a free market and you believe in a governmental babysitter that rules your life. Nothing really more to say to you.

Just like how you guys dislike "big government" on your side of the pond, many of us on the other side of the pond dislike "big corporation", which can often be worse than "big government".

Again, I don't have anything personal against loot-boxes. That doesn't change the fact that many find it fundamentally immoral and harmful for big corporations to be targeting young children with loot boxes. The parents are irrelevant.

But sure, we can just agree to disagree. There's no point continuing this debate any further.

It's all good. Hope you have a nice day! :)

Avatar image for goldenelementxl
#121 Posted by GoldenElementXL (3045 posts) -

@calvincfb: Government shills vs corporate shills? You aren’t forced to buy anything a corporation is selling you. You have have to follow laws, rules and taxes enacted by the government.

Avatar image for goldenelementxl
#122 Posted by GoldenElementXL (3045 posts) -

@Jag85: Are commercials targeted at children immoral and harmful?

And let’s just ignore the good things loot boxes and micro transactions provide. Games like Rocket League, Overwatch and R6 have been getting years worth of updates and support that would otherwise not exist. THEN lets ignore the tournaments that use micro transaction money for prize pools. The horror...

Avatar image for Jag85
#123 Posted by Jag85 (13353 posts) -

@goldenelementxl: False equivalency. As previously explained in the following posts:

@X_CAPCOM_X said:

Anyone trying to draw an equivalence between coin-op toy machines and lootboxes is seriously next level unobservant. There is a qualitative difference between a button that you push in the comfort of your home for a digital product that costs multiple times the amount of a quarter on demand at digitally-manipulated reward rates, vs a quarter in a machine that is visited when their parents are at the grocery store with them. Don't be foolish.

Technology evolves, and culture is based on that level of technological advancement or the relationship between people and how things are made (and how it is distributed, e.g. digitally distributed content). The discussion must be had.

@KungfuKitten said:

Smoke the crooks out. Adults can maybe be held accountable for their interactions with these systems. (IMO it's only a matter of time though, when we can no longer claim that.) They are marketing to kids and are using 10 times the amount of psychological tricks that are used to sell those Magic booster packs and Kinder Surprise eggs not to mention the amount of backdoor control they have over the user and their gambling results. IMO they go way too far, crossing at least a dozen ethical lines I'd draw.

We're talking for instance:

  • Individual deals/pricing based on user profiling.
  • Gambling results manipulated based on user profiling. Therefore no disclosed odds.
  • Tons of temporary deals to push people into making bad decisions.
  • Calculated levels of frustration by making things 'hard enough' to earn for free.
  • Free samplings to get the user into the habit of being an addict.
  • A fake currency to take away the initial hesitation of spending real money, even though you are spending real money.
  • Bad conversion rates on the fake currency so that you have already invested some money that you'd lose, if you don't buy any gambling boxes with it.
  • Integration into another game that people may want to play without interacting with gambling with money.
  • Constant exposure to other players who show off their earnings even to those who do not want to participate in gambling.
  • The inability to trade (for) the gambling earnings, or otherwise realistically circumvent the gambling to get to the goods.
  • The loss of all of its value once the game is done with.

I find that comparing loot boxes (as they are typically implemented into games) to things like physical trading cards, to be like comparing an average shopkeeper trying to get you to do something, to an expert field agent trained to manipulate you to get you to do something. There is such an incredible difference in product control/user control/direct feedback/ease of access/level of funding, expertise and data behind the manipulation effort. It's on a whole different level, IMO.

Avatar image for SOedipus
#124 Posted by SOedipus (11398 posts) -

Good.

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#125 Posted by Raining51 (804 posts) -

Urrrrghghhghflflflflflfl