The vr stand off

We already had some of these threads but new headsets are on the market, the samsung odyssey for instance , with higher resolution and a bit better controllers than standard windows hmds.

Windows mr is positioned on the market too nowadays, everything is up and running, steamvr is fully supported and the early quirks are out of the system.

There are five major points when comparing these headsets and those are

- tracking

- ergonomics

- overall functionality

- exclusives and game support

- price

I only own the oculus rift, and I've had the oculus dk 2, I also tried the psvr and I've done a ton of research. I also made this thread because I'm especially curious about people who own windows mr devices. @quadknight and @reduc_ab_ have already made us a lot wiser about the psvr, and lot's of peoples here have vive.

* PSVR

We all know when it comes down to it the psvr is the cheapest but definitely not the worst.

They have skyrim and other psvr exclusives that are defenitely worth it, not to mention the lack of screen door effect is a major plus as well. But it has no complete roomscale, and no in game bounderies.

The light tracking is defenitely inferior than what you have on the vive and the rift, but like psvr owners already told me, if you don't stray to far, or remain seated it's good enough and you have the farpoint gun, something other headsets don't have.

EDIT: and there's something else all of the other headsets don't have, a brightness slider, which is more important that you might think. Not everyone has the same light sensitivity, I for one am desperately trying to find a way to get the brightness down on my oculus, and I'm affraid it's going to end with sunglasses, for now.

* Vive & Rift

The vive and the rift are similar when it comes to tracking, but the vive can still support bigger play areas. 2 sensors will already give you near perfect roomscale on the rift, but not much better than 5-6 square feet, a third sensor is advisable and even a fourth sensor if you want bigger play area's but it won't support area's as big as the 15 by 15 feet play area that the vive supports.

The rift has a bit less screen door effect and the reason for this is the higher fov on the vive. The rift comes with build in 3d headset, the vive doesn't. The rift controllers are much lighter than a vive, use sticks instead of a touchpad, and have gesture control support (which only works with oculus exclusives obviously)

The rift has steam vr support and the vive can access oculus game through the vive. Allthough the latter isn't official, and the fallout 4 vr menu system is pretty much made so rift users would kill themselves (allthough there are workarounds) There's also the problem of the right eye pop in for rift users, which isn't that annoying but it's far from perfect (just like the port btw)

Let's also not forget that the vive is still a lot more expensive.

* Windows mr

Now we come to windows mr devices, no need for external sensors but it uses inside outside tracking and I have been told it's only a par with the psvr, and for something that should support roomscale that is something to consider. The controllers aren't exactly the same quality as the rift and vive, not to mention they lose tracking when they come into a position that are out of your fov.

Some do have higher resolution though, like the samsung odyssey, and some sources say that the tracking is certainly good enough for roomscale. Now resolution is defenitely a major plus, but tracking is that too. The odyssey does come with built in headset like the rift and the price isn't much higher.

The vive pro will also have higher resolution (and a built in headset) but who knows how much that will cost...

So what headset would you prefer? (and why)

It's between the Rift and Windows MR in most cases. Rift is great if you're willing to spend up to $400 since it gives you the best controllers, built-in headphones, and the most polished software.

Windows MR does the job really well for it's price. You can get a headset off Amazon for somewhere around $250 which makes it a brilliant deal and great if you're low on budget.

I'd only recommend Vive if you wear glasses since it's a good fit, or if you have a play-space bigger than 3x3m since it can track up to 5x5m or 10x10m with base stations 2.0.

Can't wait to see how the 2nd generation goes. I'm expecting Oculus to come out with the best product based on them having the largest R&D lab and tons of funding.

I'm looking forward to the next gen of VR. Unfortunately, the price point is killer and it's really a luxury item. I did buy a Cynoculars at Bed Bath and Beyond for shits and giggles. It's terrible. Haha.

I would make Vive and the Rift as two separate systems, not the same grouping.

I feel rather confident the best VR system moving forward is going to be the Vive. If not already

the post is already long enough as it is. Besides they are the ones with most similarities

why you think the vive is the best vr system

5 posts (now 6 lol) in a VR thread, and its fanatics say its the next big thing, how can it be if no ones talking about it LOL.

I'm looking forward to the next gen too. Not as much because of the price, although that's a factor too, but I want the VR hardware to be smaller and more powerful.

Not a lot of vr owners are apparently online, but you're right it isn't as popular as some people think. But that has more to do with the price than device itself imo.

It's also a major hurdle to get it working properly, even the psvr you need to consider ambient lighting, and if you don't do it properly the tracking may be off, resulting in an experience that may make people nauseaus.

Far from everyone can stomach free locomotion in game as well, so they need to use a combination of teleport and roomscale. Or just roomscale, for that you need room. The psvr will already be annoying in this because there are no in game bounderies, which means you cannot see in game when you're going to run/hit a furniture or a wall or something, you can of course solve this by using more room and rely on the tracking limits of the psvr.

Then you have the cable problem, which is solved with an easy solution by using a pull key chain and some extension cables, but it isn't that straight forward, some extension cables to not work. You need to consider the placement of your system, sensors. It took me a lot of time to set it up properly, not to mention I took a lot of time to get the whole thing working properly or even install it on windows 7.

Gaming has become increasingly popular because of the x360 and the ps3 but also because of steam and the user friendly operating systems like windows xp and windows 7. Using vr teleports you back to the nineties. The psvr is defenitely the easiest to set up in this regard but it has a lot more limits than the other headsets.

There are also the games, there isn't much content, not a lot of good content anyway, if it wasn't for fallout 4 vr, it would have probably sold this thing already.

But having said that, playing fallout 4 vr feels a bit like your in the matrix, and that is the best experience in gaming I've ever had. Even the release of halflife back in the nineties cannot match it.

It will never replace normal gaming though. It disconnects you from reality, which has major downsides, some people are gaming while they keep an eye on their kids, talk to their wives etc.

When you're in vr, you simply can't do anything in reality anymore.

I have owned the Rift since launch, but it is not something I use all the time. I still have fun with VR, but the VR games can not compete with the AAA traditional games that I enjoy.

have you tried fallout 4 vr?

No, as they are charging full price again for repackaging a game I already own. I may pick it up when it is on sale. Also, I worry about the player movement. I sometimes get VR sickness with free movement games and teleporting workarounds are not very immersive to me. I also heard that the menu/pip-boy navigation is a pain in the ass.

Not quite true. At least, it won't be true in the future. Headsets are going to use computer vision to map out the real world and bring it into the virtual world. So you could always see people in your house from inside your headset. This will start to appear in 2nd and 3rd gen headsets.

HTC Vive Pro soon. OLED displays , 75% more pixels, Headphone amplifier and also better fitting/lighter.

Also an expensive Wireless adaptor...

Tech is getting there.... slowly.

Because it currently has a very expensive entry point?

Why would we not champion "The Potentially perfect screen"? perfect human FOV in the long run, its a no brainer (at least for SP games or solo MP games).

The tech is advancing very rapidly, it's just that we're seeing a half-gen refresh here which won't be using any new tech. 75% more pixels but Oculus expects 1200% more pixels by 2021. 2nd / 3rd gen headsets will be enormous jumps.

I am exciting to see VR at future though, cant wait for Valve VR game, hope it is not card game VR

1200% pixels?

I mean, it sounds impressive... but how the hell are we suppose to power that?

1200%, yes. As in 4000 x 4000 pixels per eye, or 4K by 4K per eye.

We can power that with today's hardware with perfect eye-tracking and foveated rendering. You'll end up rendering 10x less pixels, which means instead of 32 megapixels in total, it will be the same as pushing 3.2 megapixels, but you'll still get native 4K by 4K per eye with no difference in visual quality.

you don't know what you're missing. I got the game from a cd keywebsite at release for 35 bucks, you probably can get it cheaper now.

I use teleport myself, it's immersive enough for me but I do use roomscale as well. For fallout 4 vr it works quite well besides, the teleport option is very well done, by tapping the teleporting button you can advance quite quickly in short bursts, which don't make you sick. The teleporting is better than what you would find in robo recall.

You can use teleporting to your advantage, I counter this advantage with using the live pipboy, which means using the pipboy doesn't pause the game, I just bring my wrist (where the pipboy is virtually attached too) closer to my view to select/use something.

The menu navigation is idd a pain in the ass but you can install workarounds that solve this problem which I haven't done yet and already got like 200 hours in. It bothers me of course, but not enough for me spend time on the workaround, and I have a lot of time lol

oh good~

yeah right, that future is nowhere near us yet, besides I can't see this being very successfull, I wouldn't play vr anymore If I have to look at my furniture, the whole point of vr is to be in another reality.

That future is near term. Oculus have done a lot of research into this and are expecting it to be standard in 3 years.

Also you're not forced to do anything. You'll have the choice of mixing both worlds. Plus it would be very useful for productivity, because you could fully map out your keyboard and mouse, combined with hand-tracking and you can work like normal knowing where everything is.

I have a Vive because I wanted the best one. Played on PSVR, not on the Oculus. I have no regrets. Setup is not super friendly. Mirrors will mess it up. Reflective ceilings too (shiny paint or some such).

But if you get it set up it works amazingly well. I do have the audio strap installed for ease of use. But if the price differs a whole lot then I bet an Oculus is absolutely fine too.

didn't know mirrors could mess it up, but that's easily taken care off, shiny paint not so easy :)

oculus setup is difficult on windows 7, you need to use a special command in command prompt, and you need to make sure you have framework 4.5.1 (at least installed) and it doesn't tell you this. It just says can't connnect to oculus server. After that it's quite easy. You need a compatible usb chipset though, otherwise you need to buy a special card pci usb nic.

IT works good too, but most games I want to play are on steam, and that is a bit of cpu hog, since it runs on top of the oculus sdk, the meltdown patch worsens that a lot. My I5 6500 is barely keeping up, I have to kill all processes that I don't need and disable the meltdown patch for fallout 4 vr.

Hmmm i got an oculus i play my shooter using the thumbstick like a would any shooter. I have no interest in roomscale. I added bass shakers to my chair to create a haptic chair and it works great. More devs should port the games we love to vr and it would take off raw data isn't a game people r racing to spend $400-500 to play

Even though the PSVR is the "cheapest" it is still expensive here in Canada. I doubt I will get into VR until 5-10 years from now.

Geez.. what's with you two?

You know it's ok to have a new medium right? Sure, you pregnant ladies may not like the whole concept of immersion..

but, EVERY FPS CAN BE PLAYED IN VR!! If you puke, doesn't mean everyone else will..!

Pregnant ladies LOL, someone seems to be...

Its also ok for people to think this "new" medium is shit, so chill out.

not exactly a rocket scientiest are ya? I made this thread lol

My Vive works just fine for me, but I haven't used the others. I've no doubt I would quite enjoy PSVR as I like sit down VR gaming, I'm lazy like that.

I feel like if MS does make one for Xbox one which they have said once its "good enough, wireless and affordable" they will dominated the market, because they usually make the peripherals work on PC too.

not sure y so many people is in a rush for wireless vr it just add to cost and isn't needed. Most vr games can be played seated while just moving only just ur arms for aiming and head to look around. I am not against wireless I just don't want to pay extra for something i'll never use if they go wireless they better have an option for a tethered HMD for cheaper.

As for ports All fps can be ported into vr the devs just got to not focus on getting it to work with room scale. room scale it the thing that makes vr games hard to make but a game with forward lock to play space, full locomotion, and smooth thumbstick rotation allowing you to aim and look around freely without changing ur direction whole fit every shooter on the market if devs ported them over.. if you have a HMD check out Serious Sam vr fusion and you will cee what I mean..

me playing serious sam vr fusion https://youtu.be/M7YVfEGNJYI

The thing that makes a VR experience really amazing is roomscale and the Vive is the best for that, so therefore the Vive is the best VR headset.

@commander: Yeah finding out that my mirror wall and shiny ceiling were a problem was a bit of a pain. I mean I kind of expected the mirror to give me trouble despite the message that it wouldn't, but I didn't consider the ceiling. You can cover a mirror using a simple piece of cloth. But covering the ceiling wouldn't be that easy. I ended up reading about how the 'lighthouses' function. For the positioning itself -after they found each other- all they do is emit IR in a horizontal sweep and then a vertical sweep repeatedly using two IR laser rays seated on rapidly spinning cylinders. I cut little paper caps for them so that their IR rays would never reach the ceiling because there is no point in them doing so anyway. It looks pretty dumb (I should really cut new ones in a less noticeable color or maybe make them from plastic) but it's a < $1 solution that works perfectly fine.

First off, I thought you were a chick based on your profile pics. LOL

Secondly, that video you posted of Serious Sam looks very awkward. Very little camera and weapon movement. I know you say you are mainly a seated VR gamer, but that looks like a very compromised experience. What makes VR great is the ability to move your head, body and hands freely. That is what gives you that great immersion.

Seated VR experiences get old quickly and can also be problematic for many people.

I had initially assumed that I would mostly use VR for seated experiences which is why I initially bought the Oculus Rift over the Vive. And these seated VR experiences were cool for a few minutes, but then I started to realize how limiting and problematic they were, so I sold my Oculus Rift and bought a Vive. Now, if a game doesn't support room-scale, it usually doesn't even interest me. The best VR experiences are the ones that are built from the ground up around room-scale. If I have to be seated then I would rather just play it the traditional way on my TV.

VR without room-scale is like sex without a partner. No matter how great your ignorance may convince you it is, you are still missing out on a whole other level of the experience that makes it far better.

Plus, not only does room-scale greatly enhance the immersion and fun of VR, but it also helps to prevent VR sickness. Many people, myself included, get VR sickness when playing seated VR games for too long since the brain gets confused when moving in the VR world but not also making those same movements in the real world. Room-scale solves that problem which makes it even more of a necessity for the future of VR.

Room-scale is great of course. But the best games tend not to have room-scale as it's focus. Every game technically supports room-scale since you're free to walk around as much as your play-space allows you to, but the best games thus far focus more on some kind of smooth locomotion system in combination.

I bought the HP mixed reality headset brand new on eBay for $200 USD came out to $280ca after everything. I'm more than happy with the unit that retails for $599 plus tax over here in Canada. The tracking room scale all work no issues unless you hold the controller behind you for an extended period of time, it will lose track but you learn to cope and keep them in view of the cameras. if you are interested in VR look on eBay you can snag a mixed reality headset for a really great price.

@blueberry_bandit: @blueberry_bandit: I disagree. The best VR games and the ones that I keep coming back to are the ones that have me moving around the room and interacting in the VR environment with my entire body. These are also the VR games that my friends and family have had the most fun with when they have tried my Vive as well. Not being able to move freely around the room leads to a compromised experience that is not as fun or immersive as a true room-scale game.

Without true room-scale, many people also get VR motion sickness as I explained earlier when they make movements in the VR world that they are not also making with their real body in the real world. This makes room-scale not only a great feature that enhances the fun and immersion, but also a necessity for many people to enjoy VR without VR motion sickness ruining the experience for them.

I mean more as what the VR community considers the best games. Lone Echo / Echo Arena is regarded as the best on PC by the VR community. RE7 / Moss on PSVR. None of those focus on room-scale, though Lone Echo certainly allows room-scale movement, it's not the focus; infact the locomotion system is incredible. It's good at fighting motion sickness as well.

Superhot VR is a great example of a room-scale game though.

What VR community are you talking about that has come to this agreement on these being the best VR games? I actively participate in some VR communities and therefore know that you are definitely not speaking for the entire VR community, especially people that own a Vive. Maybe people that only have an Oculus Rift think that Lone Echo is the best VR game and maybe people that only have a Playstation VR think that Resident Evil 7 is the best VR game because their system is not capable of letting them experience truly great room-scale, but if you ask people in the VR community that own a Vive what they think the best VR game is, they will likely answer with a room-scale game.

Lone Echo / Echo Arena pretty much took all the VR GOTY awards for PC. Even Vive users tend to consider it among the best. It's definitely the favorite among the PC VR community.

Also the Rift can do room-scale just as well as the Vive with 3 sensors, but limited to a 3x3m play-space. Many people will not have a space bigger than that anyway.

@blueberry_bandit: @blueberry_bandit:

Your statement that the Oculus Rift can do room-scale just as well as the Vive is simply wrong and that's a fact.

First of all, the Vive has better tracking than the Oculus Rift and this is pretty much agreed upon by anybody that has tried both. I've even seen this topic discussed on the official Oculus Rift reddit where there is obviously a bias for Oculus Rift yet despite that, the Oculus Rift community still admits that the Vive has better tracking. And when it comes to room-scale, great tracking is critical.

Secondly, the room-scale on the Vive gives you more room to move around. The more room you have, the better the experience.

Thirdly, the Vive's room-scale tracking is easier to setup.

Fourthly, the Vive headset is better designed for sweat which you will do a lot of in many true room-scale games.

Fifthly, the Vive now offers a wireless solution to allow even greater free movement around the room.

Sixthly, the Vive has a far better Chaperone system to keep you from bumping into something when you are moving around the room and a camera that helps you find objects in the room without having to take off your headset.

The room-scale solution for the Oculus Rift was obviously an afterthought in response to the Vive and it shows whereas the Vive was designed for room-scale from the ground up and encourages these types of experiences. The Oculus Rift can give you more of a room-scale experience than the Playstation VR, but trying to claim that it offers just as good of a room-scale experience as the Vive is ridiculous and untrue. Even most informed Oculus Rift users will admit that the Vive is better for room-scale.

@blueberry_bandit: personally I'm skeptical about foveated rendering not coming with massive drawbacks..

On paper, Vive has better quality tracking, but the difference is so small that they're basically the same with a 3 sensor setup in a 3x3m or less space. Vive can do up to 5x5m or 10x10m with base stations 2.0, but for those who only have maximum 3x3m of space, the Rift will do just as well.

Not many people are going to have over 3x3m of space. Those who do have it will certainly have an advantage with the Vive though.

The Vive headset is actually more susceptible to breaking down due to sweat damage.

Rift also has wireless capabilities.

The Rift chaperone system is just as good as Vive's. Vive does have a front-facing camera though as you say.

It's proven to work without any difference in visuals whatsoever. A recent demo at CES 2018 by Tobii eye tracking showed this off and no one even realized it was working under the hood.

Cool to see so many VR fans here! The medium is really growing. :)

@commander:

Hey, I would've replied to this thread earlier, but been busy. Anyhoo. Yeah, as far as headsets go, PSVR is my choice (obviously). For someone like me, who doesn't care too much about roomscale, the tracking system works fine. I just stand/walk/run in place with a chair behind me for orientation, as well as moments when my player character sits down in-game. Everyone has their VR preferences, and that's what it really comes down to. I don't mind lower resolution, or the occasional hiccup with tracking. It's all about games/immersion for me. The PSVR library has a bunch of gems at this point in time, and I like the feel of the headset. Super comfy. Plus, I'm hopelessly addicted to Skyrim VR. And horror games. So there's that.

P.S. You have a Rift, right? Did you experience the recent blackout? Heard all Rifts went dead for a while. Seems like Oculus fixed it though. Weird.

Nice thread. I'm glad to see the VR community in SW is healthy and thriving.

I'm still a PSVR guy since it has the type of games that appeal to me. AAA experiences like Farpoint, Skyrim VR, RE7, and the soon to be released Ace Combat 7 really do the job for me. I like room scale but it's not a big factor for me since most of the games I enjoy playing in VR are usually cockpit games. The Pro really work well with the PSVR and I'm pretty pleased with graphics I get out of my PSVR games. It seems devs are really starting to get the hang of making VR games that work around the limitations of the hardware. I can't wait to see what we get with the next gen of VR devices will bring. It would be nice to finally get real 4KVR headset that are also wireless. The future is looking really great for VR.

lone echo isn't exactly made to be a seated experience and roomscale goes as far you want to take it. When I play a game like robo recall of fallout 4 vr , I don't have to move standing but sometimes I do it to hide behind a virtual wall, do a leaping melee attack, or jump back from an attacker.

I don't think you have a very good concept of what roomscale is, not every game is like hover junkers, it may have started out that way, till they found out about teleporting, and the fact that some people can stomach free locomotion. Now roomscale is pretty much some room to move around, most games aren't purely based on it anymore.

And the rift is just as precise for tracking for smaller area's, even two sensors already work quite well, the vive is only usefull for bigger area's.