The Persona 5 Hype Thread of YOU'LL NEVER SEE IT COMING (HYPE: AAAE) (9/10 GS HYPE MET) (93 on Metacritic)

Well, the audience/demographics they aim for seem to eat it up. lol

Let's not forget, even Justin Bieber has his fandom.

this hurts...

93+ metacritic

Day one purchase ofc

Rice Digital:

“Perfect” isn’t a word I throw around often — there’s obviously no such thing as true perfection — but Persona 5 is just about the best example of a perfect JRPG. Every idea, every system, every grain of thought has been perfectly boiled down into a flawless reduction. JRPGs will never be the same again."

Push Square review in progress: From what we've played so far, Persona 5 is utterly brilliant.

Mass Effect Andromeda being poorly written does not excuse the poor writing in Persona 4 and the hilariously stupid premise of P5.

Your red herring failed.

@Maroxad: I'm confused, why are you hyped it AAAA ?

Hyping this game (this is a VERY niche game) AAAA does seen very odd. To each their own. I know some people will LOVE this game.

Thats totally subjective, P4 had great writing and P5 appears to as well. If you dont enjoy that kind of setting that says more about your taste than the actual quality, there are others that will enjoy it

You're disappointing yourself with that Prediction!

Because gaming journalism sucks. I can see why someone might like Persona 4's story if they havent really experienced much storytelling outside of .summer action flicks, anime and video games. But if you are that kind of person, you dont really have high standards. The initial moments were obnoxious when the children were believing in petty rumors such as the midnight channel. That there alone was a very tough cookie to swallow. But the story didnt get much better there. The characters missed up on obvious hints and patterns, that includes the main character... I had to "play along" for a long time, not acting on obvious hints because the story demanded me to. The directing and pacing of the dialogue was poor too, with the overall plot seeing very little development for a good chunk of the game... which is partially due to the issue above. Lastly, the protagonist is a mary sue, and the cast are little more than anime cliches, being melodramatic about first world problems.

With Persona 5, while it is a certain improvement over the previous drivel. The premise is extremely childish and naive. Yes, I am aware of the darker subjects in the game. But the premise itself, is incredibly childish... quite frankly gives me the premise came from a teenager rather than an adult. It is pretty brilliant in its own way, as it will no doubt resonate very well with certain demographics. But I think most adults looking at it, will say it comes across as more embarrassing or cringe-worthy if anything.

That my tastes prefer something which is not a goldmine of anime cliches and prefers writing that respects the audience?

@Maroxad: Jesus Christ, get off your high horse

I would say you found it in Persona. There has to be a certain suspension of disbelief when it comes to the concept. If you dont like the phantom thieves idea, thats not to say its bad, its just not up your alley. Its like I said Mass Effect is dumb because FTL travel doesnt exist and neither do the alien races, you have to accept some things.

@aigis: Mass Effect defies our understanding of Relativistic Mechanics. But Persona 5's story is just childish.

The difference is, one can work within its own fiction (I am already willing to accept Space Wizards), the other just comes across as juvenile.

Which makes your argument entirely subjective.

@Maroxad: again, that says more about your tastes rather than the quality

Guys, Maro's taste and expectations simply do not align with these games.

Just accept that he will never think anything more of them than "childish" and let sleeping dragons lie. It's what I do.

Sure, and I've no problems with that, my problem is with a sort of pronouncement on the value of these games based on his tastes, which I find to be fallacious

Edge reviewed the game.

8

@carlquincy: late to the party there

@charizard1605:

It's like you said earlier, his argument is entirely subjective. Just let it be.

@metalslimenite:

I totally agree with you. But you'd be spending quite a lot of effort to win a debate with ole Maro, which I've found to be more trouble than its worth.

Mature doesnt necessarily mean stuff children can't enjoy. Hell... some works that are appropriote for children can very much be enjoyed by adults. The Wizard of Oz comes to mind. And if you want a gaming example, Mother 3 got a CERO rating of "All Ages", but that game's premise is way more mature than this premise. Problem with the premise here is that it is just juvenile. Like it was written by an edgy 14 year old for some english assignment.

@aigis: No biggie

@Maroxad: I I think you're getting too caught up in the concept. Going in with an open mind is never a bad thing. You have to look at the concept as a vehicle to discuss topics.

You are right that the actual story is much better than the godawful premise would imply. But quite frankly, I can easily see where Stevo is coming from.

Hell, I PMed a few of my irl friends on Steam the Persona 5 premise and I got reactions like...

"This is why gaming narratives arent taken seriously"
"..."
"How the mighty have fallen"
"Yet another reason not to get a PS4"
"They hire children to write games now?"
"Hahahahahahaha"
"What the **** did I just read?"

@Maroxad: really they are being close-minded then. Though giving a synopsis without some sort of context or setup can really slant something. If I gave someone a synopsis of MGS I'm sure some people's heads would be spinning. I think bashing the concept is a real disservice to the game because you are really just scratching the surface of something with a lot of depth to it. It really should be a non-issue, we don't have to take everything so seriously

A company of four hairy footed little humanoid creatures, an immortal elf, a boisterous dwarf, an exiled king, a steward of the royal family, and a wizard get together to destroy a piece of jewelry powerful enough to end the whole world. Along the way, they fight in numerous wars to try and take control of this piece of jewelry, and also encounter numerous creatures, including elephants bigger than buildings, wolves that can talk, eagles so vast that they can fly them across the world, and servants of a power of darkness that can return to its full strength by wearing this piece of jewelry. This piece of jewelry is so powerful that it can only be destroyed by chucking it into a volcano.

---

"This is why fantasy isn't taken seriously"

"..."

"How the mighty have fallen"

"Yet another reason not to read fantasy"

"They hire children to write fantasy now?"

"Hahahahahahaha"

"What the **** did I just read?"

Lord of the Rings is trash, its synopsis clearly makes it seem juvenile and godawful.

@charizard1605: lol, the ending got me

My point, incidentally, is not to argue that Persona, or any video game, is as good as Lord of the Rings (which is one of my all time favorite novels) is- it's to demonstrate that you can take even the most acclaimed bit of storytelling, and by being reductionist, and putting things out of context, make it seem absolutely ridiculous.

This is as good a time as any to note that stories with seemingly bizarre setups have been dismissed out of hand before- fantasy is one example, science fiction is another, superhero stories are another, graphic novels, television, and movies, entire media that were dismissed as serious forms of storytelling. And yet, over time, these frameworks and media have been able to deliver on some truly stunning narrative works, or at least powerful stories that transcend their silly origins (a story like The Killing Joke far transcends its 'rich millionaire playboy dresses up like a bat to beat up wacko criminals' origin, its own merits or demerits as a story notwithstanding). Dismissing something out of hand because 'lol silly premise' is literally the worst thing any serious consumer of stories across any media can do.

Let me also point out that no story told is actually original- all of them take on tired tropes and cliches, it's how they utilize those tropes that make those stories stand out. Hell, something like The Godfather takes the whole 'angsty son rebelling against the family' trope and does something with it. Shakespeare's entire writing career is made on taking existing tropes in folk lore, and then either subverting them, or translating them to a grander scale. So to point to a story and say 'lol, stupid premise, hahahahaha,' is literally the most bumf*ck ignorant thing you can do if you have any interest in narratives or storytelling.

Again, this is not to draw a comparison between the quality of Persona 5 and any of the examples quoted here, before someone decides to go all 'lol, chaz just compared Persona 5 with Shakespeare and The Godfather.' I'm using those as examples to exhibit that even the best stories in the world fall into the same traps out of context that many in this thread would dismiss Persona 5, or really any story, for. It's not about the setup, it's where it goes with it, and how it does so.

Well... to be fair. MGS is actually pretty poorly directed and yes, written. With a film grad I know essentially saying that series is essentially what you would get if you got a film student an infinitely large budget. Pretentious with amateurish directing. What makes those narratives acceptable is how they keep toying with the player, the B-movie vibe from them only adds to the experience.

The big head turners in P5's synopsis are the following,

1. Persona powers just comes across as gamey if anything, or power rangers levels of crap. And just super convenient for the plot as a whole.

2. steal ill intent from the hearts of adults? This is the part that really got me. It just sounds super naive.

Maybe you gave too much context. But that didnt sound anywhere near as bad as this.

Persona 5 takes place in Tokyo, and follows a silent protagonist after their transfer to the fictional Shujin High School after being put on probation for assault on a stalker. During the course of a school year, he and other students awaken to their Persona powers, become masked vigilantes dubbed the "Phantom Thieves of Hearts", and explore the supernatural Palace realm to steal ill intent from the hearts of adults.

@Maroxad: Which brings us right back to subjectivity

Maro has boiled down to "it just sounds stupid okay believe me I know".

Poor form, man.

Opinion on MGS aside....

1. suspension of disbelief is needed. If you cannot accept a world in the first place, you are not going to have a fun time with the game. Saying its super convenient is a bad criticism for a setup to a story. Its like if I was watching Taken and said its too convenient that Liam Neeson had his daughter kidnapped and has special forces training. You have to accept that these are the rules that the world is playing by first. (and also it is a game, its like saying Zelda botw is bad because it says go beat these beasts Link, it comes with the territory)
2. From what I understand, its a vehicle to talk about some complex issues. Sure it sounds cheesy if you are reading it as just that, but really I think they should be applauded for attempting to tackle a lot of issues in an accessible way.

@charizard1605: Do you have a source for the BioWare connection?

I'm predicting AAA.

@charizard1605: Not really subjective. Looking at your synopsis at face value and take NOTHING from the actual books.

1. Nothing particulary noteworthy with the cast. You mentioned wizards, so now I know that magic exists in this world.
2. Powerful piece of jewerly? In medieval folklore, both european and arabic. Powerful magic jewelry existed, associated with alchemy, the occult and demonology. Nothing here is particulary head turning.
3. An artefact as powerful as your synopsis implied, I could understand why wars would be declared over that thing. Historically speaking, we have seen more trivial wars.
4. Snakes can talk in the bible. An anthology of stories which is heavily ingrained in western culture, and having an impact on a lot of its literature. Nothing mind boggling with the wolves, let alone the other creatures is particulary... head turning.
5. Piece of jewelry being nigh indestructable. Not really surprising at all. Medieval materials, in general, not even damascus steel was comparable to stuff we can create today, and that is real world materials, since magic exists in this world, there are probably even stronger magical materials. Even ignoring the fact that the materials could just be far superior to whatever they had back then. We also know magic exists in the world (based on the wizards comment). Magical strengthening might exist as well.

Compare this to a story synopsis which screams video game, sounds cheesy, and at one part portrays an extremely naive view on the world.

1. Gaminess is a general criticism towards storylines. It is one of the reasons, video game storylines are so crap compared to movies (not the summer blockbuster action flick crap though), novels, and yes even comics. But maybe that suspension of disbelief is a big obstacle for me enjoying Persona. It is just completely illogical. Magic I can accept. Hell, I think MGS was much better when they did not explain the supernatural elements in that series with nanomachines. Taken's plot element does not come across as super convenient, while he was the right man for the job. That special forces training he had, came a long time before. He didnt get it right before when he needed it the most.
2. Oh I agree with you on this. This is just a vehicle. Like I said, I have had a lot of the story spoiled to me by people on another site (afterall, there was a reason, I effectively praised the story when I responded to your top 10 list). But like I said, I can totally see where Stevo and my friends are coming from. If you read the synopsis, it will not just come across as bad, it will come across as extremely amateurish. But man, the premise does not really do the rest of the game justice... something I think you might agree on ;) And charizard too.

I agree.

Taken is just Die Hard with a different actor.

1. you might as well stop playing games altogether then if gaminess is going to bug you that much. As long as it is written into something well and makes sense within the universe, I see no problem. I dont find it to be illogical in the slightest because the game has to tell you what the logic is in that universe. If they say "this can happen here" thats what they can do. Unless its some deus ex machina shit, a viewer should be accepting of the rules.

Of all the people in the world they take special forces Liam Neeson's? Sounds like a setup for action to me. Or maybe Die Hard is a better example. Bruce Willis goes to his ex-wife's office in literally a different state and thats the day the terrorists show up. Good thing though, Bruce Willis has police training to save the day. Every story has to have a conflict, I dont see why this would be a knock against a story when they are telling you "this is whats happening here"

I think you can frame anything to make it look bad. I actually will one hundred percent disagree that it sounds bad. Not everything has to be gritty and conform to certain settings, somethings can just be out-of-the-box fun. With people like Stevo and your friends, they are just not getting the whole picture or are being close-minded. If you honestly cannot get into the setup for the story (which says more about taste than quality), it just comes across as trying to be difficult.

AAA is my prediction.

Definite 9 on GS. Can't wait.

Video games are great. It is just the writing that accompanies the game that is usually complete drivel. Gaminess, while it can make for some excellent gameplay... when thrown into the narrative is just no thank you. It is one of the many reasons gaming narrative is just complete garbage.

Conflict is great and all. But the difference comes in execution. The way it was written in that argument just came across as poor.

True, anything can be framed to look bad. hell, that is how strawmen work ;) Unfortunately, that description was probably not an attempt to make the story look bad. Scoffing at it is being close minded? Honestly, it is more akin to having standards. Having to throw away your suspension of belief is not a good thing, for most of the part.