System Wars Vote: Should downloadable games be counted for the metagame?

No. I think the metagame should be scrapped altogether and people should argue their points based on actual evidence, or at the very least, sound reasoning. Scores, especially after this generation and the fugue of review buying lingering in the air, and aggregated scores defeating the entire purpose of a reviewer assigning a game a score, are utterly useless. I haven't cared (with my wallet) about a game's score for years now, and prefer to discuss a game based on the actual content. It would slightly improve the quality of discussion here if we did away with the metagame altogether.Zeviander

I see no reason why not.

All games count, but you can't lump 5$ arcade games with 60$ retail games.

So yes they should and do count, but no, you can't lump them together.

You have to be a tremendous moron to not see why, anyone in the world would rather have say 10AAA retail games over 15 or more AAA arcade titles. The diference in standards and depth is massive. The score might be the same but the quality is completly diferent. Anyone who denies this is just trolling.

Eddie-Vedder

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"]

All games count, but you can't lump 5$ arcade games with 60$ retail games.

So yes they should and do count, but no, you can't lump them together.

You have to be a tremendous moron to not see why, anyone in the world would rather have say 10AAA retail games over 15 or more AAA arcade titles. The diference in standards and depth is massive. The score might be the same but the quality is completly diferent. Anyone who denies this is just trolling.

sandbox3d

No way to throw a blanket on this one man.

I would rather have a game like Super Meat Boy than any number of Uncharteds.

I'm having more fun with Hotline Miami than any big budget "AAA" title I've played this year.

There are plenty of cheap little arcade titles that have more depth than an annual CoD release.

I dont think this is something you can just judge by price, or length.

100% yes. To ignore digital is foolish considering it's making up an increasingly large portion of games these days.

the fact is anyone would rather have a AAA retail game they enjoy in a genre they enjoy from a dev they enjoy over a AAA arcade game from a genre they enjoy etc... Eddie-Vedder

This would be ignorance. That's a complete assumption.

The TC missed the whole reason why they didn't/don't count.

They obviously count, you just can't lump them together with retail games. Everyone is going to say yes, because they should count, but what the TC is trying to backdoor is wether or not they should be lumped with the retail games. WHich this post will remind the TC is not in the OP and is not the question being asked.

So if that's what you're trying to do make a new thread and explain the question properly. Cause everyone is going to say yes they should count, but anyone that knows what they're talking about will say no they can't be lumped in the same group.

Eddie-Vedder

i was there when this started so i know exactly why they didn't count and i state explicitly that a "yes" vote will have them lumped with retail games. there's nothing deceptive about it.

[QUOTE="sandbox3d"]

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"]

All games count, but you can't lump 5$ arcade games with 60$ retail games.

So yes they should and do count, but no, you can't lump them together.

You have to be a tremendous moron to not see why, anyone in the world would rather have say 10AAA retail games over 15 or more AAA arcade titles. The diference in standards and depth is massive. The score might be the same but the quality is completly diferent. Anyone who denies this is just trolling.

Eddie-Vedder

No way to throw a blanket on this one man.

I would rather have a game like Super Meat Boy than any number of Uncharteds.

I'm having more fun with Hotline Miami than any big budget "AAA" title I've played this year.

There are plenty of cheap little arcade titles that have more depth than an annual CoD release.

I dont think this is something you can just judge by price, or length.

What else is there? :?

But its not a fact at all.

You're correct. Which is why this is so stupid trying to exclude one or the other.

And you're using your personal taste as an argument. Maybe you should take your own advice.

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"]the fact is anyone would rather have a AAA retail game they enjoy in a genre they enjoy from a dev they enjoy over a AAA arcade game from a genre they enjoy etc... lundy86_4

This would be ignorance. That's a complete assumption.

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"]the fact is anyone would rather have a AAA retail game they enjoy in a genre they enjoy from a dev they enjoy over a AAA arcade game from a genre they enjoy etc... Eddie-Vedder

This would be ignorance. That's a complete assumption.

Man if you're serious you have A LOT to learn about people and preference... and life in general for that matter.

Yeah, I know.:P

I honestly think it's because a bunch of my fellow PC gamers are actually worried that the playing field would get closer if DL games were counted on consoles. Which is stupid. Any real PC gamer knows we still have the largest amount, and highest quality games, no matter what gets counted for the consoles.

the_bi99man

I heard it was cows. But who knows. Cows seem to want them counted too know.

Sure the playing field would get closer but thats because DL games counted on PC already, which isn't fair.

And there is also the fact that not every PC game gets reviewed.

But hey the best thing about this is we won't have idiots going 'it's a downloadable game so it doesn't count' next gen:)

No, playing dumb is being ignorant when we know the VAST majority of us would prefer it. It's common sense, if you could fund a AAA games from you're favourite dev pick the genre and theme etc the VAST majority of us, simply not to speak in absolutes would tell them to make a 60$ retail AAA over a 10$ arcade AAA. What would you pick? Thought so... Eddie-Vedder

What you stated was ignorant, and in no way a fact. You call it a fact, then fall back to common sense... If it's a fact, there is evidence to back it up.

What I would pick is irrelevant to the discussion.

I can already imagine people claiming ownage over some crappy 3 hours game compared to a 60 million dollars Triple A game that will be supported through years with DLC and online multiplayer. Just thinking about it makes my head hurt.

If SW becomes like that in the coming years I'll be jumping ship to anoher forum.

[QUOTE="sandbox3d"]

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"]

All games count, but you can't lump 5$ arcade games with 60$ retail games.

So yes they should and do count, but no, you can't lump them together.

You have to be a tremendous moron to not see why, anyone in the world would rather have say 10AAA retail games over 15 or more AAA arcade titles. The diference in standards and depth is massive. The score might be the same but the quality is completly diferent. Anyone who denies this is just trolling.

Eddie-Vedder

No way to throw a blanket on this one man.

I would rather have a game like Super Meat Boy than any number of Uncharteds.

I'm having more fun with Hotline Miami than any big budget "AAA" title I've played this year.

There are plenty of cheap little arcade titles that have more depth than an annual CoD release.

I dont think this is something you can just judge by price, or length.

:lol:

This board never stops surprising me.

No. I think the metagame should be scrapped altogether and people should argue their points based on actual evidence, or at the very least, sound reasoning. Scores, especially after this generation and the fugue of review buying lingering in the air, and aggregated scores defeating the entire purpose of a reviewer assigning a game a score, are utterly useless. I haven't cared (with my wallet) about a game's score for years now, and prefer to discuss a game based on the actual content. It would slightly improve the quality of discussion here if we did away with the metagame altogether.Zeviander

+1

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"][QUOTE="sandbox3d"]

No way to throw a blanket on this one man.

I would rather have a game like Super Meat Boy than any number of Uncharteds.

I'm having more fun with Hotline Miami than any big budget "AAA" title I've played this year.

There are plenty of cheap little arcade titles that have more depth than an annual CoD release.

I dont think this is something you can just judge by price, or length.

sandbox3d

What else is there? :?

But its not a fact at all.

You're correct. Which is why this is so stupid trying to exclude one or the other.

And you're using your personal taste as an argument. Maybe you should take your own advice.

I can already imagine people claiming ownage over some crappy 3 hours game compared to a 60 million dollars Triple A game that will be supported through years with DLC and online multiplayer. Just thinking about it makes my head hurt.

If SW becomes like that in the coming years I'll be jumping ship to anoher forum.

Gue1

Yes

[QUOTE="sandbox3d"]

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"] That's straight up ignorance, you're using personal taste,the fact is anyone would rather have a AAA retail game they enjoy in a genre they enjoy from a dev they enjoy over a AAA arcade game from a genre they enjoy etc... You using AAA retail games you don't like vs AAA arcade games is plain moronic. You can also do the exact ooposite and talk about AAA retail games you love and arcade titles that are garbage.You're personal taste isn't called into question here, use your head.Eddie-Vedder

What else is there? :?

But its not a fact at all.

You're correct. Which is why this is so stupid trying to exclude one or the other.

And you're using your personal taste as an argument. Maybe you should take your own advice.

In assuming that everyone wants a big budget AAA retail game over a cheaper DL game any day of the week.

So your "facts" are citing other people opinions? And no, retail games having more depth is not a fact at all. It varies game to game. Nothing about paying 60 bucks = depth.

It is most definitely their opinion. And one that changes with the times for that matter. I'm sorry, but Gamespot is not my god.

Whichever is more enjoyable?

I can already imagine people claiming ownage over some crappy 3 hours game compared to a 60 million dollars Triple A game that will be supported through years with DLC and online multiplayer. Just thinking about it makes my head hurt.

If SW becomes like that in the coming years I'll be jumping ship to anoher forum.

Gue1

[QUOTE="Gue1"]

I can already imagine people claiming ownage over some crappy 3 hours game compared to a 60 million dollars Triple A game that will be supported through years with DLC and online multiplayer. Just thinking about it makes my head hurt.

If SW becomes like that in the coming years I'll be jumping ship to anoher forum.

marklarmer

Casey there should be a vote thread and a discussion thread. This is going to become a mess.blue_hazy_basic

i considered that but we need mod support first.

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"]the fact is anyone would rather have a AAA retail game they enjoy in a genre they enjoy from a dev they enjoy over a AAA arcade game from a genre they enjoy etc... Eddie-Vedder

This would be ignorance. That's a complete assumption.

considering steam 10$ steam games often play and look better then 60$ PC games I'd say go to for the 10 dollars

besides, chances are the developpers will see more money out of the 10$ then the will out of the 60$

I apply to the same rules to XBL

[QUOTE="marklarmer"]

[QUOTE="Gue1"]

I can already imagine people claiming ownage over some crappy 3 hours game compared to a 60 million dollars Triple A game that will be supported through years with DLC and online multiplayer. Just thinking about it makes my head hurt.

If SW becomes like that in the coming years I'll be jumping ship to anoher forum.

kuraimen

so wouldn't that mean Halo 4 > Journey?

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="marklarmer"]you mean just like cows have been doing this year with Journey? :?there's already been a sig with Journey > Halo 4 on it.

rilpas

so wouldn't that mean Halo 4 > Journey?

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] Halo 4 SP can be beaten in 1.5-2 hours more than Journey.kuraimen

so wouldn't that mean Halo 4 > Journey?

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"][QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

This would be ignorance. That's a complete assumption.

rilpas

considering steam 10$ steam games often play and look better then 60$ PC games I'd say go to for the 10 dollars

besides, chances are the developpers will see more money out of the 10$ then the will out of the 60$

I apply to the same rules to XBL

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"] No, playing dumb is being ignorant when we know the VAST majority of us would prefer it. It's common sense, if you could fund a AAA games from you're favourite dev pick the genre and theme etc the VAST majority of us, simply not to speak in absolutes would tell them to make a 60$ retail AAA over a 10$ arcade AAA. What would you pick? Thought so... Eddie-Vedder

considering steam 10$ steam games often play and look better then 60$ PC games I'd say go to for the 10 dollars

besides, chances are the developpers will see more money out of the 10$ then the will out of the 60$

I apply to the same rules to XBL

The metagame will probably have to change a lot in the next-gen, what with stuff crossing over between platforms. If the ps4 library gets on Gaikai, which will probably work on PCs, then what, no more exclusives? Will games linked between PS4 and PSVita not counted either? Then you have MS with Xbox live/arcade and Windows 8 getting cozy. Who knows how far that'll go. Heck, Gaikai might allow PC games to be playable on the ps4. Muddying the waters everywhere. Either the metagame needs to change a lot more than just allowing downloadable games, or just forget about it.Sphire

one thing at a time. :)

Nope it means that for a $60 retail game it's really not much more than a $15 dl game so I don't see any problems comparing them.kuraimen

You missed out the full-featured multiplayer. You get that for the $60 as well.

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] Halo 4 SP can be beaten in 1.5-2 hours more than Journey.kuraimen

so wouldn't that mean Halo 4 > Journey?

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="rilpas"]

so wouldn't that mean Halo 4 > Journey?

blue_hazy_basic

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"] No, playing dumb is being ignorant when we know the VAST majority of us would prefer it. It's common sense, if you could fund a AAA games from you're favourite dev pick the genre and theme etc the VAST majority of us, simply not to speak in absolutes would tell them to make a 60$ retail AAA over a 10$ arcade AAA. What would you pick? Thought so... Eddie-Vedder

considering steam 10$ steam games often play and look better then 60$ PC games I'd say go to for the 10 dollars

besides, chances are the developpers will see more money out of the 10$ then the will out of the 60$

I apply to the same rules to XBL

so wouldn't that mean that they should be judged by the same standard?

[QUOTE="Sphire"]The metagame will probably have to change a lot in the next-gen, what with stuff crossing over between platforms. If the ps4 library gets on Gaikai, which will probably work on PCs, then what, no more exclusives? Will games linked between PS4 and PSVita not counted either? Then you have MS with Xbox live/arcade and Windows 8 getting cozy. Who knows how far that'll go. Heck, Gaikai might allow PC games to be playable on the ps4. Muddying the waters everywhere. Either the metagame needs to change a lot more than just allowing downloadable games, or just forget about it.CaseyWegner

one thing at a time. :)

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]Nope it means that for a $60 retail game it's really not much more than a $15 dl game so I don't see any problems comparing them.lundy86_4

You missed out the full-featured multiplayer. You get that for the $60 as well.

[QUOTE="Sphire"]The metagame will probably have to change a lot in the next-gen, what with stuff crossing over between platforms. If the ps4 library gets on Gaikai, which will probably work on PCs, then what, no more exclusives? Will games linked between PS4 and PSVita not counted either? Then you have MS with Xbox live/arcade and Windows 8 getting cozy. Who knows how far that'll go. Heck, Gaikai might allow PC games to be playable on the ps4. Muddying the waters everywhere. Either the metagame needs to change a lot more than just allowing downloadable games, or just forget about it.CaseyWegner

one thing at a time. :)

Yep, no need to jump at conclusions, when we don't even know anything about next gen systems yet. For example, will Vita still be supported by the time PS4 gets here? :twisted:

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"] No, playing dumb is being ignorant when we know the VAST majority of us would prefer it. It's common sense, if you could fund a AAA games from you're favourite dev pick the genre and theme etc the VAST majority of us, simply not to speak in absolutes would tell them to make a 60$ retail AAA over a 10$ arcade AAA. What would you pick? Thought so... Eddie-Vedder

considering steam 10$ steam games often play and look better then 60$ PC games I'd say go to for the 10 dollars

besides, chances are the developpers will see more money out of the 10$ then the will out of the 60$

I apply to the same rules to XBL

The funny thing is you are on to something here and you dont even see it. You just said it yourself lol.

The price and method of distribution have no direct correlation to the quality of the game. You can have games on each side that are either amazing, or complete piles of sh*t.

Thats the point. That is why trying to force two different categories here makes no sense.

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]Nope it means that for a $60 retail game it's really not much more than a $15 dl game so I don't see any problems comparing them.kuraimen

You missed out the full-featured multiplayer. You get that for the $60 as well.

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]Nope it means that for a $60 retail game it's really not much more than a $15 dl game so I don't see any problems comparing them.kuraimen

You missed out the full-featured multiplayer. You get that for the $60 as well.

That gets you access to the MP of all games. I didn't have to pay $120 to play Halo 4.

Yes.

It doesn't make sense that they aren't counted in the first place. :?

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"][QUOTE="rilpas"]

considering steam 10$ steam games often play and look better then 60$ PC games I'd say go to for the 10 dollars

besides, chances are the developpers will see more money out of the 10$ then the will out of the 60$

I apply to the same rules to XBL

sandbox3d

The funny thing is you are on to something here and you dont even see it. You just said it yourself lol.

The price and method of distribution have no direct correlation to the quality of the game. You can have games on each side that are either amazing, or complete piles of sh*t.

Thats the point. That is why trying to force two different categories here makes no sense.