Steam Deck may have compatibility issues with a number of popular games

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uninspiredcup

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#51  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 46278 Posts
@osan0 said:

It is going to have compatibility problems of some kind. The library is both vast and very varied.

Even running on Windows it will issue unfortunately, in part due to Valve not really giving a shit about quality control.

Not even just taking about indie/asset-flips, full of AAA developers putting shit in the store new or old in a bad state.

Resident Evil 8 for example the most recent. Or can jump back to Operation Racoon City which straight up does not work without workarounds.

Valve embrace the open platform mentality without any semblance of responsibility that entails.

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TheEroica

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#52 TheEroica  Moderator
Member since 2009 • 19372 Posts

@SolidGame_basic: You sure you were a vita fan? :P

I can live without destiny 2...

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osan0

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#53 osan0
Member since 2004 • 16375 Posts

@uninspiredcup: Thats a bit of a different topic but Realistically what can they do though? no one is going to tell a AAA developer that they cant release X. no one has the stones. I mean i agree that quality control in the games industry is pretty poor now but what can they do?

If valve said "no capcom, you cant release RE:V because of Denuvo performance issues" or whatever they would just shoot themselves in the foot. Of all of them Valve have the least clout in this regard as publishers can just go elsewhere and still sell on the PC (epic would be delighted).

The quality of games though is a separate issue from what we are talking about here. This is about CodeWeavers and Valve trying to reimplement large amounts of windows functionality using black box reverse engineering. Windows, hardware vendor drivers and the games industry itself has accumulated a large amount of, what can broadly be called, oddness. All that has to be accounted for to fool games into thinking they really are running on windows. Hence compatibility problems

If a game is really buggy on windows then ideally those same bugs should manifest in proton. The compatibility issues here are not a Valve letting anything through issue. They are a climbing a technical mountain issue.

The quickest way to get that to improve is to have developers test their games against proton and report issues to valve. Realistically that is only going to improve if Linux stats start looking better (i.e. Buy and play games on Linux if you want to see the situation improve). Valve can't really force them, nor should they. the PC is not theirs to control. all they can do is encourage them and make it as easy as possible to do it.

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uninspiredcup

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#54  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 46278 Posts

@osan0: Gonna disagree here, don't think it's a different topic. It directly pertains to the user end experience in the same manner as Linux, except here, it's entirely on Valves end.

What can do they? Fairly simple. Expect a level of quality, or you're not on the service.

Most, if not all of these games on Steam a broken mess, have been fixed by users. Again, recently, Resident Evil 8 being an example.

The most famous one, arguably Dark Souls. Where, instead of fixing it, users had a wonderful option to pony up for a re-release. Which definitely classify as "taking the piss".

It isn't something where Valves, and these companies hands are tied. They simply, do not give a shit.

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osan0

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#55 osan0
Member since 2004 • 16375 Posts

@uninspiredcup: It is a different topic. You are talking about the quality of the games themselves (which is a valid issue. many games at release especially are in a sorry state on all platforms).

But Deck compatibility is a different problem. A perfectly functioning well developed windows game on steam could still be a disaster for proton. As a developer maybe i use EAC. Maybe i use a video codec that, legally, can only have its codec distributed on windows. Maybe my game is big and AMD and Nvidia have put in some lovely driver hacks to squeeze more performance out but my render is not fully compliant with DX as a result (used to be a thing for older games).

The Ys IX example i gave for example. Having to disable a proton feature to get the game to work on linux. Who is to blame? The dev? They never claimed Linux support. On windows the game has been well received. No major issues seem to be cropping up. Job done on their side.

Valve? How were they to know the game wouldn't like a certain feature in proton? But sure Proton should be fully windows 10 implemented at this point right? If only. its not from a lack of trying. Black box reverse engineering is hard. Very f'in hard.

Are valve going to test every game themselves as they come through steam to see if they are compatible? Not likely. That would take an enormous amount of resources. MS, Sony and Nintendo don't do this and, as far as we know, valve is not bigger than those companies in terms of the size of their operation. Not even close. Even if they did test everything the developer may still have no interest in helping.

Its the same with the titles the TC mentions. Those games have issues because their DRM and Anti cheat systems are not compatible with proton. Those developers have never claimed that they are compatible. The games themselves are not faulty.

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uninspiredcup

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#56  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 46278 Posts

@osan0 said:

Are valve going to test every game themselves as they come through steam to see if they are compatible?

That's exactly what they should be doing.

Like, this isn't just some simple company trying to make its way in the world, Valve head one of, if not the largest digital distribution service around and have for all intents and purposes, unlimited resources.

Expecting them to pull their finger out their arse to ensure games work is kind of a given. Or should be.

We aren't talking about "pc's have 1000 combinations", stuff that is very, very clearly, shit ports or not updated to work properly, which users fix.

Instead, for years now, they seem to have always been given a free pass where users are expected to fix shit after launch where we bitch and moan about the said company releasing shit rather than the gate-keeper allowing it to happen in the first place.

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Random_Matt

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#57 Random_Matt
Member since 2013 • 6283 Posts

Depends on sales, the support that is. Ubisoft are committed if it sells well.

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GirlUSoCrazy

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#58 GirlUSoCrazy  Online
Member since 2015 • 13896 Posts

I don't get it, you can just install Windows on it if you want

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PimpHand_Gamer

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#59 PimpHand_Gamer
Member since 2014 • 3032 Posts

@gym_lion: Or just a job perhaps.

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SolidGame_basic

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#60  Edited By SolidGame_basic
Member since 2003 • 32486 Posts
@TheEroica said:

@SolidGame_basic: You sure you were a vita fan? :P

I can live without destiny 2...

I'm in the "I like cool tech" demographic lol. The idea of the Steam Deck is cool, but I'm not sure if the execution is there. At least for the $700. In the mean time, I can keep trying out XCloud on my Galaxy Tab lol.

As for Vita, I was one of the biggest Vita fanboys in SW when it came out. Those days are gone, but man, back then, Vita got trashed like crazy. It's kinda funny how today people see it as a cult classic now.

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topgunmv

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#61  Edited By topgunmv
Member since 2003 • 10843 Posts
@uninspiredcup said:

@osan0: Gonna disagree here, don't think it's a different topic. It directly pertains to the user end experience in the same manner as Linux, except here, it's entirely on Valves end.

What can do they? Fairly simple. Expect a level of quality, or you're not on the service.

Most, if not all of these games on Steam a broken mess, have been fixed by users. Again, recently, Resident Evil 8 being an example.

The most famous one, arguably Dark Souls. Where, instead of fixing it, users had a wonderful option to pony up for a re-release. Which definitely classify as "taking the piss".

It isn't something where Valves, and these companies hands are tied. They simply, do not give a shit.

It's why whenever possible I purchase my games from gog, they make sure every game on their store actually works.

Hopefully gog games have no issue running on the deck.

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PimpHand_Gamer

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#62 PimpHand_Gamer
Member since 2014 • 3032 Posts
@navyguy21 said:

As soon as I get mine I'm installing windows and all of my game launchers.

I have no use for SteamOS but the idea of a portable gaming PC that can actually fully function as a real gaming device speaks to me.

Getting the base model and installing a 1TB nvme

GPD Win has been making portable Windows gaming devices for years. I think it's just kind of odd that Deck is getting so much attention when the option to play portable PC games has been around. I have the first GPD Win and it still holds up pretty well. But I'm also betting that a lot of people wanting a Deck probably don't even travel enough to really warrant a need for portability when a small laptop and gamepad could do better.

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pyro1245

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#63  Edited By pyro1245
Member since 2003 • 7824 Posts
@pimphand_gamer said:
@navyguy21 said:

As soon as I get mine I'm installing windows and all of my game launchers.

I have no use for SteamOS but the idea of a portable gaming PC that can actually fully function as a real gaming device speaks to me.

Getting the base model and installing a 1TB nvme

GPD Win has been making portable Windows gaming devices for years. I think it's just kind of odd that Deck is getting so much attention when the option to play portable PC games has been around. I have the first GPD Win and it still holds up pretty well. But I'm also betting that a lot of people wanting a Deck probably don't even travel enough to really warrant a need for portability when a small laptop and gamepad could do better.

The GDP Win is among many handheld PCs that have been offered by various mfgs. A lot of the ones most similar to the Steam Deck (or Switch form factor) have been crowdfunded and are still out of stock and hard to buy.

I imagine the Steam Deck has been getting so much attention because:

  1. It's Valve
  2. It's Zen2 and RDNA2

The announcement got mainstream coverage (unlike most similar devices), and it's reasonable to assume that they can mfg a lot of them. The Steam Deck has a lot more resources behind it.

Even tho a laptop and a gamepad might be just as easy as the Steam Deck, it's still not quite as perceivably portable. I can't just get up and walk across the house and back as easily. I can't hold the screen above my head in bed as easily on a laptop.

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Eoten

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#64 Eoten  Online
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Having built nearly every PC I've ever owned, certainly every gaming PC, there are a couple trends I've noticed. First, the idea that they're upgradable and you can always improve performance later is a bit inaccurate.

While yes, you can upgrade CPU, GPU, RAM, etc, by time most people need to upgrade, current components won't be compatible with the old ones. A new CPU often needs a new chipset which means a new motherboard. If you have a new motherboard, you may need a different type of RAM, and so what happens is most people just end up building entirely new gaming PCs each "generation."

What Valve is doing is closer to what I've been a proponent of motherboard or CPU/GPU manufacturers doing in creating a new slimmed down form factor for a motherboard that includes most of these things built into a single PCB. The motherboard, CPU, GPU could be integrated into one PCB, eliminate the need for PCI-E slots, and save a significant amount of space and reduce costs to manufacture overall. Valve is somewhat doing this in a quasi-portable form factor but if manufacturers like ASROCK, MSI, ASUS, Gigabyte, XFX, etc were to make same form factor all-in-one PCBs containing the latest CPU and GPU technology at a reduced cost of the individual components, I'd probably go that route for future gaming PC builds to get better performance for the price, and take advantage of significant size reductions in the final build.

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xantufrog

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#65 xantufrog  Moderator  Online
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@eoten: this is true. The CPU+Mobo combo last a long time, though - typically multiple GPU upgrade generations and maybe a RAM bump can suffice as they age gracefully. Still, you're right the CPU+Mobo tend to need to be bought and dumped together

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Eoten

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#66 Eoten  Online
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@xantufrog said:

@eoten: this is true. The CPU+Mobo combo last a long time, though - typically multiple GPU upgrade generations and maybe a RAM bump can suffice as they age gracefully. Still, you're right the CPU+Mobo tend to need to be bought and dumped together

I can also go a step further in saying 2.5" and 3.5" drives are on the brink of becoming relics of a past era, as too are cases for gaming PCs that have slots for them similarly to the disappearance of 5.25" stuff. My next gaming PC will not have a mechanical hard drive, nor an SSD, but NVMe which takes up less space on a motherboard than a stick of RAM, also allowing for significant size reductions in form factor.

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#67 xantufrog  Moderator  Online
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@eoten: I need to get an nvme in my computer. Haven't followed the options and compatibility though

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#68 theAM0G
Member since 2021 • 508 Posts

@SolidGame_basic: 'However, there's a major caveat to this.'

End thread. 🙄

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Eoten

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#69 Eoten  Online
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@xantufrog said:

@eoten: I need to get an nvme in my computer. Haven't followed the options and compatibility though

You would have to look up the specs for your motherboard to see if you have an NVMe slot, or get a PCI-E adapter if you have a free PCI-E slot. Most desktop PCs that have the slot will accept a 2280 which is the most common, and cheapest form factor.

Even though I do not plan to get a Steam Deck, I do not see how more development in this type of hardware won't be a benefit as more options are always better than fewer. Also, these "compatibility issues" people speak of are also obstacles to playing many modern games on platforms other than Windows. With a company able to spend millions in developing new software to overcome these limitations, it simply means we'll be getting even closer to completely platform agnostic PC gaming where you won't have to have a Windows PC to play what you like, and there's a LOT of untapped potential in Linux for PC gamers.

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Fairmonkey

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#70  Edited By Fairmonkey
Member since 2011 • 2017 Posts

I can run windows on it if i want for better compatability and i wouldnt want to play those shit games on it anyways. Its gonna have fidelityfx and VRR so everything will play on it. There is no way steam deck is gonna fail. Its a portable, affordable and capable open source pc. Never understimate the power of open source software. Steam fans will get it, switch fans will get it, emulation fans will get it

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lamprey263

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#71  Edited By lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 39666 Posts

As exiting as it is to see this thing get hyped, wouldn't surprise me if the thing turns out to flop either. But, would be nice for Nintendo to behave like they might have some competition, just a little.

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#72  Edited By Eoten  Online
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@lamprey263 said:

As exiting as it is to see this thing get hyped, wouldn't surprise me if the thing turns out to flop either. But, would be nice for Nintendo to behave like they might have some competition, just a little.

They won't have competition. People don't buy Switches because they have some poorly utilized overstated quasi-portable feature, they buy Switches to play Smash, Mario Kart, LoZ, Mario, Metroid, etc. People buy Nintendo because they want the games, and nobody can compete with Nintendo on that front. Nobody really even tries. For Steam to be a solid competitor to them, they'd have to start putting out their own IPs exclusive to Steam that compete with those ones, and Valve hasn't really been in the software market for a long time.

Maybe a new Half Life, Left 4 Dead, and some new stuff targeting some of the successful Nintendo IPs (like a combative cart racing or brawler clone comprising of Valve and major PC gaming characters), then Nintendo could feel threatened. And honestly, if Valve came out with a Mario Kart or Smash Bros clone that included a good mix of characters from Valve and other PC developers, I'd be all-in on that. But until someone can challenge Nintendo IPs, they're not going to be a threat to Nintendo, period.

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#73 NukleaWorfair
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@blaznwiipspman1 said:

Now its the deck...I really like the concept, and I think it will sell millions, but at the end of the day, you can do everything it can do on a laptop and not spend so much $$ on a deck.

Well I have a laptop, and I need to upgrade to play AAA games that the Steam claims to play.

So what laptop do you advise I get for the same performance at the same price? Because I can't find any.

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osan0

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#74 osan0
Member since 2004 • 16375 Posts

@uninspiredcup said:
@osan0 said:

Are valve going to test every game themselves as they come through steam to see if they are compatible?

That's exactly what they should be doing.

Like, this isn't just some simple company trying to make its way in the world, Valve head one of, if not the largest digital distribution service around and have for all intents and purposes, unlimited resources.

Expecting them to pull their finger out their arse to ensure games work is kind of a given. Or should be.

We aren't talking about "pc's have 1000 combinations", stuff that is very, very clearly, shit ports or not updated to work properly, which users fix.

Instead, for years now, they seem to have always been given a free pass where users are expected to fix shit after launch where we bitch and moan about the said company releasing shit rather than the gate-keeper allowing it to happen in the first place.

Speaking of the deck specifically: I am assuming you know what proton is. you get that the deck is a PC, right? It's not a console. there wont be any deck specific builds of games. it just runs PC games.

so they test every game that comes through against proton and a bunch of games have issues. So then what? kick those games off steam because they don't play nice with proton even if the developer never claimed it would work? kick every game off steam that uses Denuvo or EAC? is that reasonable?

Again in my above scenario: who is to blame for me having to go and change a config to get Ys IX to work (if the deck was out now then this issue i ran into would have affected it too)?

If you are talking about the wider PC and steam platform: that's off topic but i strongly disagree that valve are a gate-keeper. the PC should never ever have a gate keeper. They would be reefed out of it for trying to play that role. That is not their place.

Testing every game is also unfeasible. There are too many. there are too many PC configs. then there are future PCs to consider to. What do you even test? Where do you draw the line over what gets pulled over what gets a pass?

Blaming valve for crappy ports is like blaming MS and Sony for CP2077 or blaming AMD/Nvidia/intel for bad freesync because a manufacturer released a monitor with buggy firmware.

the shouting and finger pointing for game issues should be aimed squarely at the publisher. in the RE8 example: capcom are to blame for its state. whether its the way the implemented Denuvo or its just Denuvo itself is pants doesnt matter. Capcom chose to use it. Capcom implemented it. Capcom released it in that state.

on the other hand: is the RE8 issue enough to warrant pulling the game from the store? seriously now. If thats where the line is to be drawn then there are a metric crap ton of games on all platforms that need pulling.

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Litchie

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#75 Litchie
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@NukleaWorfair said:
@blaznwiipspman1 said:

Now its the deck...I really like the concept, and I think it will sell millions, but at the end of the day, you can do everything it can do on a laptop and not spend so much $$ on a deck.

Well I have a laptop, and I need to upgrade to play AAA games that the Steam claims to play.

So what laptop do you advise I get for the same performance at the same price? Because I can't find any.

There aren't any. Get a Steam Deck if you want a laptop that plays new games well.

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blaznwiipspman1

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#76  Edited By blaznwiipspman1
Member since 2007 • 8243 Posts

@NukleaWorfair: thats a fair point. AMD has been real slow in releasing the zen plus rdna apu combo for their laptop / desktop space. They're actually on zen3 on the cpu side of things for their laptops, and thats faster than the zen2 in the deck by a good margin. Sadly they haven't even shifted to rdna1 architecture for the gpu in laptops, and the main reason for that is the lack of competition from Intel. AMD can afford to use 2 gen old Vega igpu because Intel doesn't have anything much better anyways. They're forced to use zen 3 only because intels cpus are still the best in the business. Otherwise I have no doubt amd would be milking zen1 or zen2 for all its worth right now. That's the reason for this super wierd pairing AMD has got going on in laptops with brand spanking new CPU architecture paired with 3 year old Vega igpu.

With that said, the laptop APU are still good enough to run most pc games at low medium settings at 720p