*Sigh* Bayonetta 3 is such a step back.

First of all ... I love this franchise, i'm a huge fan. In fact i still think Bayonetta 2 is the greatest hack and slash game ever made (and yes, i played Ninja Gaiden Black) and while i wasn't expecting this game to be better, i was also not expecting to be this disappointed.

Now, is not that the game is bad ... in fact i think is a great game, but it seems that KamiGod forgot what made Bayonetta a great franchise in the first place... and no, is not the sexual cartoonish innuendo.

Bayonetta was always an action game with big epic set pieces, however this sequences almost never compromised the stellar gameplay and every cinematic piece feels earned and followed by top notch gameplay that requires both coordination and excecution in order to get those elusives Pure Platinum trophies.

Bayonetta 3 commits the biggest sin in this kind of games ... it compromises the gameplay in favor of cinematic sequences, but that's not the worst, those cinematic pieces are clunky, gimmicky and not very fun to play, in fact i really don't want to even try to get a Pure Platinum in some of those sections. It seems that KamiGod wanted to creat bigger sequences but by the time you watch an entire city going down by the 10th time ... is like ... yay ?

Even worst is that the great gameplay is still there, whenever you have a room full of enemies and it's you versus them, it still feels great, but the enemy variety is also a step down, like they keep throwing at you bigger and tankier enemies that are not that fun to fight and given how larger the areas are, is hard to see incoming attacks. Not to mention this engine is not suited for exploring at ALL. The alt weapons are not that fun as well ... aside from the "yo-yos" they also feel like a step back.

Anyway , i don't want this to sound like a review, but yeah TLDR ... i felt they went for just bigger and badder but somehow it feels less epic and less fun. Is still a solid 8 in my book since i'm only talking about the things that i don't like and i do want to see where do they take the plot now but i'm a bit disappointed with the game.

What do you guys think ?

I loved the game and the hard-to-impress people in the action game community seem to enjoy it too.

Hmmm fair enough... I personally loved it. Whether it's better than Bayo 2, that's up for debate though.

Fair enough. Personally though I totally loved it and had a great time with it, big bombastic set pieces and all.

I haven't played Bayo 3 yet ... however...

Bayonetta was always an action game with big epic set pieces, however this sequences almost never compromised the stellar gameplay

I felt like the bolded was constantly happening in Bayonetta 1 . Whether it's the level suddenly collapsing or a boss exploding out of the ground the game is contantly interrupting you and there's almost never any kind of flow.

@madsnakehhh: sad to hear, because bayonetta1 is amazing and the main character is quickly becoming one of my favorite of all time haha.

My only problem with bayo3 was the ending. Really dont want a different bayonetta if thats what they are going for.

Agreed, Bayonetta 1 is also to blame for this ... but like i said, for every "padding" section, there were a ton of traditional action sequences. But somehow i feel Bayonetta 3 is worst on this part.

I definitely need to play it a ton more, i put too many hours on Bayonetta 2 and i remember that i wanted to play it all over again right after i finished it ... not the same case with Bayo 3, in fact at times i needed to push myself to play it but i'll try to give it another fair chance with adjusted expectations.

I didn't mind that ... in fact i think that's a good thing for the franchise, kind of like what Devil May Cry did, now we have a ton of playable characters with Dante, Nero, Vergil, V, Lady, etc ... so we could have something like that with the different Bayonettas, Viola, etc ... and i don't think we have seen the last from Cereza, character is way too iconic now, again very similar to how Dante is now.

Literally everything that's been coming out on the Switch is nothing but a step back. Metroid, Bayo, Xeno, Striker, pokemon, etc, etc.

WOW! That's incredible! The game must be amazing btw tbh actually🤡

@hardwenzen: Metroid Dread is amazing and a worthy sequel to Super Metroid ... the rest ... yeah i'll give you that to some extent.

Also the action game community is actually hard to please, they probably whine more than you which is a lot.

The aspects of gameplay I like most of prior games is the smooth responsive combat. I got a lot of replay trying to platinum all the levels and doing so on the various difficulties. These weren't hard games to beat but challenge was in achieving higher level scores, keeping combos going with all the tools available, executing perfect dodges and making the most of the witch time. So satisfying to land those perfect executions through and entire level. But yeah, this is in the aspect of it being a beat em up. When the mechanics are refined then achieving these scores comes down to pure skill. It was fun and challenging and kept me coming back again and again. This should be the meat of any Bayonetta game.

And I'd agree, the cinematic or alternate gameplay sequences were better as an icing on the cake implementation and not the core of any level design. Maybe the one entire level design I would make an exception to is the Space Harrier level which I absolutely loved as a nostalgia throwback.

I still have not played a Bayonetta 3 myself so I have no idea how I would feel but if it is as TC says then I'd probably be in same boat. Maybe Platinum really is just too buried in work with various publishers to have given it proper attention it deserved.

Metroid 4 is what should've been released, not some ugly Dread that nobody remembers.

And i don't believe you one bit that the action community whines more, because i follow action games, and i know how they are.😎

@madsnakehhh: we had the different characters in the previous bayonettas if i remember correctly so thats not what i was talking about. No im saying if they truly do mean to kill off bayonetta for the future entries, that would suck complete ass. Viola wasnt really as fun to play as bayonetta was anyway and the punk rock garbage attitude of hers is not any good compared to bayonetta (or cereza) herself.

I agree, I wouldnt think Platinum would be stupid enough to get rid of the mainline heroine of these games but then what the **** was that stupid ending for? Just a dumb fart of an ending to a fun game.

Angry just thinking about it.

Need break.

It was my greatest gaming disappointment of the year. Really really messy and clumsy game.

I'm still slow playing this (on my first stealth mission and... yeah, it's ass and bad enough I'm not great in MG and Splinter Cell but those are more fun, yet the combat remains great as ever). Focusing on Cuphead for my Switch gaming right now.

Not really. Dont know what community you are talking about but most purists are saying exactly what OP and me said in another thread (see here). Bayo3 is a disppointment. They sacrificed gameplay for spectacle and thats not even debatable

I agree with OP, it was a huge step-back for the franchise

@madsnakehhh: Not worth the mass murder of brain cells.

Sorry you were disappointed, TC. Bayonetta 3 isn't another iterative edition of the original Bayonetta game, which Bayonetta 2 was. If you look at it as a separate game, I think it's pretty good, but it does veer into action adventure territory instead of just pure hack n slash. Maybe the next one they can improve on it further.

@vatususreturns: I'm not saying the game is free from criticism, but posting a SW thread largely filled with shitposters that speak loudly over games they aren't playing isn't really a good indication. Take it with a grain of salt, but the action game aficionados I can trust, liked the game.

And besides, I loved the game myself.

Yes ... completely on point with everything i said, i didn't remember your thread since i wanted to avoid spoilers at that time so i didn't pay much attention to it, but is definitely the same feeling.

And like i said, still like the game, i enjoy how different Viola feels and i also like how you can use the summons in order to do more damage, it does feel great when you are facing an enemy and a demon is finishing another, so yeah, great on that part ... but the spectacle does get in the way more often than not.

SolidGame_basic : Please, do not get me started on the action adventure thing. Do you honestly believe this game is suited for exploring ? i'm sorry that's a big no, the camera, the level design and the controller is bad for exploring, and that also gets in the way of the hack and slash, like i said ... either you make smaller areas so enemies can't hit you from far, far, far away or you design better enemies instead of only big dudes with big weapons in order to fill that space.

poe13: I do think Viola will be the "main" character from now on, but is going to be like Nero in Devil May Cry. Where he is the protagonist, but Dante will always be present for the "badass" moments. Let's be honest, death means nothing in this games so i'm sure Cereza will be back and Viola can improve just like Nero did, i mean i liked Viola in this game but she can be so much better.

I find Bayonetta's gameplay highly outdated. Can we stop the hack and slash game where the camera is 10 meters from the character, floaty controls, bad platforming, and bad AI? Its so repetitive.

@madsnakehhh: thats not a good idea in my opinion but I had been thinking thats where they are going after that ending. If thats the case, im done with this series. Unlike you, I really did not like Viola at all. Such a punk, smug little annoying dumb girl compared to Cereza and Jeanne.

Agreed. The game is going to be a chore to replay….

No more heroes 3 and this game was a major letdown. I hated God Eater 3 too.

What’s up with the third games sucking so much as of late?

No.

I mean fine, i give you bad platforming which amazingly is still used in both Bayonetta and DMC for some weird reason.

Other than that, that's why i love about the genre. Floaty controls for air combos, far away camera to see everything around and react accordingly and bad AI because it wouldn't be any fun for this kind of games if all enemies went Dark Souls on you. The genre thrives on stylish combos and combat flow, nothing like getting the higher rank on a given section after so many tries.

I hate to sound "snobbish" but if you find that gameplay outdated or repetitive, chances are that you are not playing this games the way they should be played.

I think Viola is ok ... and we still used Bayonetta for the majority of the game, so it's going to be interesting to see if she can carry a solo game and how much she will mature (then again, i'm sure she will not be the sole protagonist). And like i said, people really disliked Nero in DMC4 at first but everyone liked him a lot more in V.

@madsnakehhh: i understand Bayonetta is a fighting game at heart. I get im supposed to not get hurt, perform perfect combos in time and kiss the barrier away for a platinum. But this seems redundant.

We are using game design from 1996 and it's not making Bayonetta anymore solid now.

Then again Bayonetta could be so much worse by ripping off the GoW reboot and me not ever getting into it.

@Alexander2cents: Yeah, we understand your pain. It’s not easy being the best action game to release in over a decade. No action game comes close to how amazing Bayonetta 3 is.

Idk about anyone on this forum being purists or something, most of the cats here are at best still low level/intermediate level players at the game. The general gist is yeah none of us like how mini game happy the game is, which is not exactly a new problem for a Platinum game, but this time the ratio seems a bit more out of wack, especially with it constantly being an end of the level thing.

Conversly in bayo 1 the gimmicks often made up an earlier portion of the level. Bayonetta 2 straight up tricks people by giving you more of our kit, with those flying fights. Which still mid.

Where the community diverges is that the more high level play side of the community would still argue the combat and enemies are a massive step up from where they were in 2. Weapons included. it's no Bayo 1, and I would argue Wonderful 101 and Bayo 1 are still a class or two better than anything else Platinum has made, but it's a good step up from the previous game and the rest of Platinum's output (well besides Vanquish).

Even the large enemy complaint, while I am getting a bit sick of all the Super Armor and hyper armor enemies have between Bayo 3 and the recent god of war games, knowing what breaks their guard immediately and what lets you launch them opens up a lot of options. The game avoids a lot of the pitfalls DMC5 had with V, by simply letting you queue up the summons attacks, so the summon can do its ting, you can let go, and in between animations catch back up to the enemy, with the summon assisting in your combo. Bonus point you can enemy step the bosses.

The score chase isn't as good as the first game definitely, but on the flip side custom combos might be the best they've ever been in a Bayonetta game. And the notion that there is a complete lack of rooms to do that stuff doesn't really hold water, especially with Witch Trials as an option.

It's definitely messy, but I think we are long past time finally needing to admit that Platinum has some bad habits that need a cease n desist fucking yesterday.

But again the notion that high level play side has turned on the game isn't really true, the opposite. More mixed than they would prefer, but from that side of the fence it be more of a 1 over 3 with 2 in last conversation.

Having to play a video game is outdated, absolute state

@jg4xchamp:

Saw this thread immediately after watching some Setnaro combo vids with "Love this game!" lol.

Yeah man, high level players don't like Bayo 3, right. Definitely trust the guy who has... Bayo 2 as best action game ever made. A game that is objectively a step down from the original in multiple ways.

Well we all know Bayonetta 3 is just a poor man's Devil May Cry 5.

It's sort of like God of War Ragnarok, minus the graphics, the immersion, world class narrative, genre defining story, best-in-class actor performances, art direction, game direction and with an inferior combat mechanics system.

Plays nothing like DMC5, and if we going down that path. Bayonetta enemies tend to actually be more aggressive at attacking the player than DMC5.

But again my bad, Conan and I actually play these games.

Yeah it doesn't really track depending on community.

@jg4xchamp: Well that's something.

I can't take action games that don't have aggressive enemies and do not force to either block, parry or dodge at certain frames to progress. Creativity and freedom in combat (i.e. button mashing, styling and no consequence) is incredibly un-immersive imo.

They were designing an open world which wasn't going well and basically just took what they had and made them into separate levels. Design philosophy from the start was different

button mashing is on the player, not the game. If you are button mashing, you are also usually playing poorly or less optimized than you could be playing.

A rail roaded ass rigid action game is a less engaging action game. It works for people who need everything simplified so that the game can explain to them how to play a very specific, so I get why new god of war is your speed. I like good video games tho.

To all the Bayonetta 3 haters.. how can you not dance to this?

I don't think there is a lot of people hating on the game ... even in this thread some people think is the best (you know, wrong opinions and that), but others, myself included are just disappointed, but the game is still pretty good.

It's not my favorite Bayonetta, but it's exactly the kind quality I was expecting from Platinum. The story and enemies types are sub par, but no one plays Bayo for the story anyways. The lore is pretty good though.

Weird flex from a guy who bigs up DMC, but shits on Bayo and Ninja Gaiden. Both series having a much greater emphasis on defense. A necessity in Bayo, a straight up barrier to entry for Ninja Gaiden.

It helps to actually play these games.

@jg4xchamp: oh no. How dare i want some kinda change in Bayonetta. I wished at some point there would be more openness to these games.

It could've been more than some ADD fueled weeb nonsense but atleast we get to play as some other girl so at least we get that.

My friend told me there would be an open world but it was cut because the Switch is underpowered.

Why would you put Bayonetta only on Switch anyway? Only because a contract.

@mesome713: yeah except all Ninja Gaiden s

@Alexander2cents: I said best in the last decade. Bayonetta cant be touched.

@ConanTheStoner: DMC1 one of my all time favourite games. DMC franchise does have a special place in my heart. Loved DMC5 too, I played it before I touched any Fromsofteware game (2019).

Going back to DMC5 after playing the game with the best combat system ever crafted (Sekiro) was pretty rough. but I did end up beating the PS5 remaster like 4-5 times on all difficulties up to DMD/VMD. did feel satisfying. but again, even on DMD I felt all the bosses and enemies just stood there and let me do their thing until they just 1-2 shot me.

I also played Nioh 1 and Nioh 2 before Sekiro, which felt fine, but going back to Nioh after Sekiro? holy shit Sekiro completely ruined those two games for me. Felt like going back to 2D after years of 3D. From colour TV to black and white TV.

@Mozelleple112: Wow. That's cringe.

@Mozelleple112:

Laying the hyperbole on thick as always.

Yeah man, Sekiro is a good game. I enjoyed the combat enough. Found it a bit limited, doesn't really give you much to dig into. But it has a good feel to it, very solid system for what they were going for.

force to either block, parry or dodge at certain frames to progress.

See this just doesn't land for me lol. Sekiros windows are WIDE open. Like if you played fighting games, these block/parry windows in Sekiro feel like an eternity.

And forget fighting games, both Ninja Gaiden and Bayonetta present tighter windows.

And in Ninja Gaiden the enemies are way the **** more aggressive, it's not even close. Makes Sekiro enemies seem like they're on benzos.

Not a knock against Sekiros enemies, these games tune their threats accordingly. The pace is by design.

It's just weird how you knock these games that have the very things you allegedly value.

I'm guessing some day you'll actually play these games and have an epiphany the way you did with Souls.

Imagine a game tighter than Sekiro on defense, but also significantly more dynamic than Sekiro on both defense and offense. That's Ninja Gaiden.

I know, I know. "Ninja Gaiden too old, needs a remake, muh current graphics".

It's your loss man.

something shittier? Yeah how dare you.

Trying to explain video games to sewer rats. Clear as day cats either didn't play shit or are hella incompetent at em, but hur durr I like being forced to play simon says.