Seems Xbox fans want to negate the fact that better sales equate to more leverage for 3rd party deals, bigger player base, more consistent online players. Now all that's brought up is services. Gamepass numbers are inflated, I mean it's basically given away for a dollar. Why try to downplay sales just because it's not in your favor Lems? Not to mention exclusive games will be better on PS5 going by Sonys track record. Aren't you guys tired of moving goal posts?
Razor sales model. MS have moved to pushing hardware in order to grow their services. They've moved all first-party games between PC and Xbox, in order to further the brand.
Is this akin to a @DarthaPerkinjan drive-by thread post?
I think sales matter to the point that you want your platforms that you invested in to be successful so it gets lots of third party support. Outside of that it doesn't really matter to me.
Every generation each competitor has the chance to tip the scales in their favor. Pretty sure the jump from PS2 to PS3 showed that the previous gen's install base doesn't guarantee the same install base for the new gen.
I think Microsoft has a chance of starting off the XSeX at least better than the X1 started. I wish them success because their success will put Sony on the defense and improve their offerings.
MS makes more money with services than hardware, so as long as their services reach more people (such as both PC and console players), it actually doesn't matter as much the actual sales figures for their boxes.
Seems Xbox fans want to negate the fact that better sales equate to more leverage for 3rd party deals, bigger player base, more consistent online players. Now all that's brought up is services. Gamepass numbers are inflated, I mean it's basically given away for a dollar.Why try to downplay sales just because it's not in your favor Lems? Not to mention exclusive games will be better on PS5 going by Sonys track record. Aren't you guys tired of moving goal posts?
@Pedro: there's nothing to damage control, very happy with the way Playstation is doing. Just notice Xbox fans are obnoxiously making it seem like gamepass is all that matters. Not hardware sales, not software sales, but gamepass. The goalposts are always moving....
@mclarenmaster18: You realize that what you just said goes both ways right, fanboys care about shit but only when it favors them. Its not exclusive to one group.
@mclarenmaster18: PS3s issue is it launched late at a high price, it still sold more worldwide than 360 on day one, otherwise it wouldn't have sold more lol. Sales were never anything for Sony fans to move the goal posts for. However, Playstation has always had better games than Microsoft. This gen though Xbox got spanked, now Xbox fans act like gamepass matters more lol.
They definitely matter, and they'll matter to Microsoft again once they get them. Just like power started mattering again. That's why all this dubious manipulation of numbers and reporting of bullshit metrics is gonna go away overnight if, and I say IF, they can get a foothold in sales again. They're gonna get exposed instantly.
If Xbox can bounce back, say goodbye to Game Pass, or watch it get shittier. Kiss all those fire sales goodbye. They want that marketshare they lost from Sony back, only they're going to spend more money to try to get there where Sony didn't have to break that much of a sweat. It's not gonna work out.
Sales matter in just about any market, that's a certainty. What is laughable, however, is when gamer's leech themselves onto the armpit of sales, as if they're getting a piece of that pie when they are in fact: not.
Sales matter to the companies yet it's laughable when a gamer bases their approval on games over sales.
@Sagemode87: Thing is, theres very little profit in console hardware. Consoles are often sold at a loss (Sony lost a fortune for each 1st edition ps3 sold) or for a small profit that doesnt cover distribution and staff costs.
Services like Gamepass and psnow can rake in money. Imagine an xsx owner subscribing to Ultimate for 7 years....that's 840 bucks of profit per subscriber which blows away the profit from consoles, even if they are being sold at a profit.
Sony gamers haven't taken to psnow. Theres around 2% of ps4 users that subscribe compared to around 20% of xbox owners that subscribe to gamepass....if that figure is replicated next gen, ms will make more money than Sony even if they again sell half as many consoles.
I think we should not bring up fanboy groups at all in any discussion in System Wars. After all, it is System Wars, not Fanboy Wars. Talk about the games and the systems, not the fanboys who play them.
Sales always matter, except for gen 7 hardware for some odd, unknown reason.
I would not go there if i were you.
By the way that gen the xbox ended last after starting 1 year before everyone else.
@Willy105 said:
MS makes more money with services than hardware, so as long as their services reach more people (such as both PC and console players), it actually doesn't matter as much the actual sales figures for their boxes.
This is most out od this world post i have read in this place,you basically contradict your self on the same post.
You claim MS make more money from services than from harware,and claim that as long as their services reach PC and console player it actually doesn't matter as much the actual sales figures.
In reality that is totally MORONIC because MS can make far more money on a 110 million users base than a 46 million user base,so sales DO MATTER.
More hardware sold = more software and services sold this is business 101,my god some of you are totally derange.
@Sevenizz said:
@Sagemode87: @Pedro:
‘Why are you damage controlling if you are satisfied with the current state of Playstation?’
Because he’s not - hence why this thread exists. It bugs him to the core that others probably have more fun than just ‘playing’ movie and anime games.
No we have fun with actual great games,unlike the xbox one which has been a total let down this gen outside Forza.
Microsoft is setting up gamepass as being the go to Netflix of gaming.
They are pretty much cross platform with all of thier first party with PC.
Microsoft is going to make a killing off this buisness model. I have a ps4 this gen but when I upgrade I'm getting the sex box and yeah ive already got a nice rig.
I think there were 3 exclusives I really enjoyed on ps4 this gen, Spiderman, ratchet and clank, persona 5.... Ps4 was not that great, microsoft just screwed thier launch talking about online only, cable box, and kinnect..
They seem to have learned thier lesson.
I havent seen anything about ps5 that makes me want to buy one and tbh I mostly played 3rd party stuff on my ps4 anyway.
Microsoft is setting up gamepass as being the go to Netflix of gaming.
They are pretty much cross platform with all of thier first party with PC.
Microsoft is going to make a killing off this buisness model. I have a ps4 this gen but when I upgrade I'm getting the sex box and yeah ive already got a nice rig.
I think there were 3 exclusives I really enjoyed on ps4 this gen, Spiderman, ratchet and clank, persona 5.... Ps4 was not that great, microsoft just screwed thier launch talking about online only, cable box, and kinnect..
They seem to have learned thier lesson.
I havent seen anything about ps5 that makes me want to buy one and tbh I mostly played 3rd party stuff on my ps4 anyway.
Dude sony has been doing that with PS now before MS did,the only difference is that ms is placed its first party games on day 1,and that it is only download unlike PS Now which is both download and streaming gamepass is a copy of PS Now.
The PS4 game wise has been much much better than the xbox and scores do prove it.
@mclarenmaster18 said:
During PS3 days, Sony fans claim they didn't care about sales.
During PS4 days, Sony fans care for sales.
Oh really? that's their hypocrisy.
Bonus: On PS4 days, they brag about hardware power until when Xbox One X's spec being confirmed.
Bullshit i was here doring those days,and cows never claim sales didn't matter,all the contrary cows were all about world wide sales while Lemmings hid on US and uk as if those countries alone reprecented the whole world.
I remember the legendary arguments about how several member of this place didn't care about world wide sales because they live in US so only US matter to them.
It was as pathetic as MS posting montly NPD numbers to drop then when they started to loss NPD this gen.
And if i have to point hipocricy,i point at how lemmings didn't care about sales when teh xbox launched,when the PS2 chew and spit the xbox,then only to care about sales BUT only US sales and UK,so please drop the hipocricy claims,if you have proof of cows claiming sales didn't matter post them.
I can also ping point the whole graphics hypocricy to lemmings as well.
2001 to 2005 the xbox has superior verion of games.
From 2005 to 2013 the xbox 360 has superior version of games,in this case the gap mostly was a few frames,maybe a missing patch of grass or the xbox 360 having 720p while the PS3 was 640p,some how this was HUGE last gen.
On 2013 when the power change lemmings acted like graphics didn't matter and the arguments about not been able to see a difference between 720p vs 1080p when they could spot one on 720p vs 640p was lol worthy.
So in both cases the hypocricy can be ping to lemmings not cows,in fact the only gen were the PS lead in graphics for 4 years was on the PS4 because since the PS1 cows had been use to having lesser visual.
@kadin_kai said:
@Sagemode87: Sales matter but subscriptions are a constant flow of cash.
This is why there are subscriptions for practically everything, Netflix, Amazon Prime, Gamepass, Apple Arcade, Disney plus, Microsoft Office....
The current global economic climate is evidence of the need for a constant flow of cash.
This is business studies 101.
And the more hardware you sell the more your chances of making more money on those services business 101.
MS would surely make more money on 110 million users than on 46 millions,sales do matter period.
@Sagemode87: Thing is, theres very little profit in console hardware. Consoles are often sold at a loss (Sony lost a fortune for each 1st edition ps3 sold) or for a small profit that doesnt cover distribution and staff costs.
Services like Gamepass and psnow can rake in money. Imagine an xsx owner subscribing to Ultimate for 7 years....that's 840 bucks of profit per subscriber which blows away the profit from consoles, even if they are being sold at a profit.
Sony gamers haven't taken to psnow. Theres around 2% of ps4 users that subscribe compared to around 20% of xbox owners that subscribe to gamepass....if that figure is replicated next gen, ms will make more money than Sony even if they again sell half as many consoles.
Which is why sales dont matter.
Yeah that figure in bold is a total lie.
Please show me the breakdown of gamepass between PC and xbox,gamepass is also on PC,we don't even know if more than half of those are on xbox or PC.
As of now PSN is making way more money than xbox live.
@tormentos: I'm talking about the Wii. It absolutely destroyed both Xbox 360 and PS3, yet it's not given credit for it by a lot of fanboys because they think that selling to casuals don't count, for some stupid reason.
@tormentos: Ah Tormy...what would we do without you?
Latest figures put psnow at 1-2 million and gamepass at 10m. 1 percent of 100 million is? Double it...theres your 2 percent. Since theres actually more than 100m ps4s out there, it's actually under 2 percent.... And 10m out of 50m subscribers is? Yes, that's right...20%.
Oh and since neither Sony nor ms differentiate between psnow and gp on consoles or PC, I think we'll leave that point eh?
Oh and why are you shifting goalposts again? I'm talking about game subscription services, not psn or live. Pay attention.
@tormentos: Ah Tormy...what would we do without you?
Latest figures put psnow at 1-2 million and gamepass at 10m. 1 percent of 100 million is? Double it...theres your 2 percent. Since theres actually more than 100m ps4s out there, it's actually under 2 percent.... And 10m out of 50m subscribers is? Yes, that's right...20%.
Oh and since neither Sony nor ms differentiate between psnow and gp on consoles or PC, I think we'll leave that point eh?
Oh and source that psnow is making more money than gp please....remembering the income from games sold on gp....cheers.
Gamepass is on xbox and PC MS hasn't say how many subscribtions are on PC and how many on xbox.
So claiming the xbox has 20% penetration is a LIE since you don't know how many of those accouts are actual PC gamers,and before you even dowplay them mind you that xbox live has what 90 million accounts? The xbox one has 46 millions so yeah allot of PC account which are free by the way exist.
Please link me to were MS claim all 10 million xbox gamepass subscriber are on xbox and not PC ill wait.
@tormentos: I'm talking about the Wii. It absolutely destroyed both Xbox 360 and PS3, yet it's not given credit for it by a lot of fanboys because they think that selling to casuals don't count, for some stupid reason.
Dude i don't know what gen you were on the one i was the wii won by like 16 millions,i think that is the closes gap ever in the console market.
And in FACT i remember how lemmings claimed the 360 was first and even claim the wii was on a different generation,or claim it was on its own market.
Just so they could say MS was beating sony,i know because i debate it here,and i had no problem admitting the wii won,and in fact i my self remind many lemmings of it,in fact they separated the PS3 and xbox from the wii,by saying the winner of the HD era.😂😂
In a pathetic attempt to erase the wii from the books.
@tormentos: "Gamepass is on xbox and PC MS hasn't say how many subscribtions are on PC and how many on xbox."
Lol....are you blind as well as a Cow? Does Sony say how many psnow subscribers are on PC? No? I just said that doofus.
Even then, theres Gamepass.... not gamepass for PC and another for Xbox. You pay for one, you get the other. And the whole point is that MS dont CARE if you're using gp on pc or xbox....its the same damn price you clown. That's the whole point...
I cant believe I have to explain this, even to you...
Psnow runs on ps4 and around 1 billion pcs. The fact that it has barely got 1-2 m subscribers is pitiful....or a clear indication that gamers dont like it.
And again....why are you talking about 90m live subscribers? Where did I talk about anything apart from gp? Are you drunk tonight?
@sealionact: dude, PS now is full price from the get go. Gamepass is given away for a dollar. You think those "10 million" are repeat subscribers? MS has thrown bull all generation when it comes to numbers, but that gamepass stat is legit right? You guys can do better lmao. I've had gamepass 5 times with different emails. Can't keep up with sales so let's act like only subscriptions matter, lmao.
And as usual, you are here to state you don't care. 😂
Pedro is right though, you come into threads about consoles to say you don't care when you obviously do, poor bassbot LOL.
Why would I care about which console sells more? They are all shit to me. I have always bought the consoles that have exclusives that I want. I care about the games and not the platform holders. Being a corporate shill or fanboy is one of the dumbest things you can do. Limiting what games you have access to and showing allegiance to a company that does not give a fuk about you is retarded.
And as usual, you are here to state you don't care. 😂
Pedro is right though, you come into threads about consoles to say you don't care when you obviously do, poor bassbot LOL.
Why would I care about which console sells more? They are all shit to me. I have always bought the consoles that have exclusives that I want. I care about the games and not the platform holders. Being a corporate shill or fanboy is one of the dumbest things you can do. Limiting what games you have access to and showing allegiance to a company that does not give a fuk about you is retarded.
And as usual, you are here to state you don't care. 😂
Pedro is right though, you come into threads about consoles to say you don't care when you obviously do, poor bassbot LOL.
Why would I care about which console sells more? They are all shit to me. I have always bought the consoles that have exclusives that I want. I care about the games and not the platform holders. Being a corporate shill or fanboy is one of the dumbest things you can do. Limiting what games you have access to and showing allegiance to a company that does not give a fuk about you is retarded.
If you don't care then why come into the thread, its obvious that it irks you in someway.
And to hide that you DO care, you have the verbal diarrhoea above which has nothing to do with topic at hand, its just a tactic to deflect. This must be some butthurt because no one is talking about PC or something LOL.
@tormentos: No one is saying MS won't make more money if they sell software AND hardware than software alone. But MS makes more money from software than for hardware, so as long as people are subscribing to Game Pass and Xbox Live and 365 and whatever, they are in a better position than simply selling a lot of hardware.
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