[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="NavigatorsGhost"][QUOTE="MrEpyx"]um, when MGS2 came out, the PS2 had a much smaller userbase. A lot smaller. And because of the amount of games and the amount of QUALITY games on the PS2, gamers, for the most part, that bought a PS2 farther down the road (2, 3 years later) did not bother looking at past PS2 games when considering what to buy. Especially since MGS2 did not have multiplayer. Its not like the Halo series, which is still being played by people online years after its inital release. Casuals want the "hip" game, the kind of the thing they can play and/or discuss with their friends. Once the release window on single-player games like MGS2 closes, the sales take a hit, regardless of the quality of the game.
Also, MGS2 is not casual friendly. Casuals might pick up the game when it debuts on a system because they see the awesome graphics and the character kicking ass. But then after they play it, they realize the complex story, long cinematics, and previous lack of multiplayer is not something they like, because those things are not something casuals want. If they do like it, they became MGS fans. Nobody passively follows a series like MGS, you either love it or you don't care about it or hate it.
Your attach rate statistic means absolutely nothing. If you have a game on a system that has sold over 120 million, and it trails only a handful of other games on that platform (GTA - one of the most casual games ever and GT) in sales, you've done something significant.
Why was Halo's (and Halo 2's) attach rate on the Xbox so high? Because it was casual friendly, had multiplayer, and had almost no competition. The Xbox lacked all gametypes, and the PS2 and GC certainly weren't putting out quality FPS games.
Halo has a signifcant sized fanbase now, and since Halo 3 is Microsoft's flagship title, it better have outstanding sales. And again, look at the game's competition in the FPS genre this gen. The best FPS games so far have been because of their single player components (Bioshock, THe Darkness) or have not been on 360 (Resistance). Other than that, you have the Orange Box, which just came out, and is not a casual game.
"Nevermind the fact that Halo 3 costs between $10 and $80 MORE."
That is a total garbage reason. You think people refuse to buy games now because they cost 10 dollars more than they did in 2001? Or 20-30 dollars more than in 1997? Thats adjusted for inflation and is dictated by the market. NEWSFLASH: in a 5 year span, COSTS INCREASE. And you do remember when SNES and N64 games were being sold for 50-70 dollars, right?
NavigatorsGhost
I respectfully disagree.
1.) MGS is casual friendly. In fact, almsot all games are casual friendly (obvious exceptions being games like Virtua Fighter). The genre this game falls into is just not super popular. As you said, it is a love-or-hate game, just like Splinter Cell...but I'd defeinitly say MGS is more noobish than Splinter Cell (in terms of ease of play). Consider Gran Turismo as a counter-point. It's not n00bish by any means. It's a fairly accurate driving simulator and clealry isn't for the crowd looking to play the next Burnout...yet GT is a SYSTEM SELLER. That's a fact. MGS--and its genre--simply doesn't do it for the masses. That's all there is to it.
That being said, I fully believe MGS4 could be a system-seller, because it may be the first really big PS3 game to hit its hype.
2.) I agree on the overall sales point. But the question that cannot be answered is how many of those sales of MGS2 came at or around its launch? And what kind of sales did it mean for the hardware? That's the critical question in this thread...and nobody has the data to answer it. So we'll talk in circles. :|
3.) Halo and Halo 2's attach rate are a function of the quality of the games themselves. Please remind yourself of the scores of technical achievement awards and GoTY awards those two games took home. Xbox had and has plenty of games. People just knew a quality product when they saw it. Of course, the fact that Halo and Halo 2 are still played online by hundreds of thousands of gamers should be enough to tell you that point was flawed.
4.) Its interesting you'd try to simply dismiss the sales of Halo 3 by simply saying "it should sell like this...", as if to suppose any game in the history of GAMING has EVER sold like this. 3.3 million in a little more than a week? GTHO. Mario is a flagship. Zelda is a flagship. Gordon Freeman is a flagship. "Final Fantasy" is a flagship. "GT" is a flagship. "GTA" is a flagship.
NONE of those games...or any game in their family of games...has ever...EVER so much as touched 1/3 of these sales in their opening MONTHS...never mind their first couple of weeks.
Halo 3's 3.3 million may never be touched in the forseeable future of gaming.
I also find it interesting that you'd consider The Orange Box not casual friendly...as if it does something that makes it difficult to get into :|
5.) Lastly, inflation is the least of the reasons game costs have increased.
MGS is not casual friendly. Until MGS3 Subsistence, it didn't even have multiplayer (which was done half-assed). Mutliplayer is a huge plus for casuals. Think Halo and think Goldeneye 64, two of the most casual friendly games ever made. Why? Because they are so damn accessible, turn the console on and entertain your friends for hours. Halo was just an extension of that, turn on your console, get on Live (something a blind monkey can do) and start playing. Addictive gameplay, tight controls, its fun, its competitive, and its balanced.
MGS is not something you can enjoy, unless you are following the story and actually care about what happens, at least not extensively. As a more recent example, look at Bioshock. A lot of players were disappointed with the game because they played it like any other run-and-gun FPS. They didn't attempt to follow the story, acquire the audio-diaries and try and understand the idea behind Rapture or discover why it failed. They breezed through the game, just trying to get to the next level. The pacing of MGS is slow, people rag on the amount of cinematics all the time, and those are just the hardcore gamers that ***** about it here. The story isn't very accessible either because of its complexity, longetivity, and the fact that it hasn't concluded and answered all the questions yet.
Casuals can't handle that stuff. They want everything explained for them, they want everything to be laid out and easily accomplished. Complex controls, and high difficulty levels are things that turn off casual gamers. They want something that they can "be good at" without putting much time or effort into it.
You know why GT sells so well? To casuals anyway? Its because they see the graphics and the stats for how many cars and tracks are in the game. They have no understanding of what "driving simulation" means. When they boot the game up and realize they have to go through license tests? That turns them off. Having to drive "crappy" and less recognizable cars for the first part of the game? That turns them off. I mean, manual transmission driving alone turns off casuals.
My point about Halo and Halo 2 attach rates is not wrong. I've never said, nor will I, that Halo is a bad game. But the lack of competition certainly did not hurt it. But is that the only reason or the main reason why it did so well? No, of course not. But it certainly affected it. Its by far and away the best console FPS since Goldeneye, of course it will do well in sales. It was the "it" game when it came out, similar to what Goldeneye was for the N64. It filled the void that existed after Goldeneye was gone.
And if you're telling me that Half-Life is not predominantly for hardcore gamers, you're flat out wrong. For starters, its essentially a PC franchise. Casuals gamers do not play PC FPS games online, especially 8 years ago or whenever CS started. Mods do not mix with casual gamers, either. And the Orange Box is primarily a sequel to a game that most gamers, especially casuals, have never even played. Its not like Halo 3, where everyone was exposed to the previous installments.
You know what? I just don't feel like responding right now. I'm tired. Enjoy yourself.
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