Phil Spencer: "I’m not a big fan of Xbox One and a half."

Thanks for clarifying! Seems like a good point that if they have to change the architecture too much to achieve this, it would kind of defeat the purpose. Let's assume MS won't release anything new at all. If Sony does it seems like they would get an advantage for new sales. I mean if consumers have the option between Ps4k, PS4 and X1 it seems like Sony will get an even greater proportion of sales than the 2:1 lead they have now. So if Sony releases something, doesn't MS have to answer?

Depends on how many people there are who have been waiting until mid-gen to buy a new console without caring about price, especially if PS4k is $500. Without competition, it'll pretty much only get slightly better graphics at higher frame rates, but if both MS and Sony release something devs will put in more work than they would otherwise. MS might need to come up with something just for that sales boost, but I honestly have doubts about how much they'll sell. It'll need to be significant if devs will be willing to screw over ~60 million people (projected, and excluding Nintendo). There's not really a way to know for sure at this point.

Why are you yelling?

-------------------------------------

As for what he is saying..

im sure if this PS4K does sell well he will quickly change his tune and they (MS) will release one themselves.

@FinalFighters said:

@indzman said:

HE'S A BLOODY HYPOCRITE. MADE GAMERS PURCHASE XBOX ONE ON PROMISES OF EXCLUSIVES, NOW TURNED LOYALTY TOWARDS PC GAMERS AND WINDOWS 10 BRINGING MOST OF THE EXCLUSIVES FOR MORE SALES.

Why are you yelling?

-------------------------------------

As for what he is saying..

im sure if this PS4K does sell well he will quickly change his tune and they (MS) will release one themselves.

I'm angry with Phil lol.

XBO has DX11.X and DX12 APIs. AMD was showing Hitman DX12 on their Polaris 10.

There's a high probability Polaris 11 is priced like 7770's initial introduction.

For PS4 or XBO, there's no need for larger Polaris 10 i.e. Polaris 11 scaled to 100 watts will do the job i.e. 40 watts Polaris 11 has pretty good result. The purpose for showing Polaris 11 at 40 watts is to show the potential for higher SKUs e.g. 100 watts scaled Polaris 11.

A very high clock speed GPUs reminds me of NVIDIA G80 era GPUs i.e. G84 has 1400-to-1500 Mhz shader clock speed with 32 CUDA cores.

You could have a Polaris 11 18 CU with 1600Mhz (100 watts version) effectively similar to Polaris 10 36 CU at 800Mhz... But Polaris 10 36 CU at 1600Mhz would be a monster for gaming PC market.

Polaris 11 at 40 watts 1920x1080p/60 fps is effectively 2X the result over XBO's SW Battlefront's 1280x720p/60 fps.

What happens if you scale 40 watts results to 100 watts with a large clock speed increase? For desktop, there's no need for Polaris 11 at 40 watts to remain within 15 inch laptop TDP limits.

Samsung's 14 FinFET process yields high clock speeds.

It's not going to be 1600MHz. For one, hitting such a high clock speed would be super hard; it's way too high to guarantee. Second, power consumption does not scale linearly with voltage or clock speed. It'll hit the point of diminishing returns long before getting that high. You also seem to be completely oblivious to the concept of binning; I suggest that you look it up.

There are too many holes for you to be saying things like this, so it would be a good idea to wait until we have actual Polaris specs before making such wild assumptions. If GPUs worked the way you think they did, we'd have like 3-4GHz GPUs by now. And you're still ignoring the possible issue of compatibility. It seems like you're not even willing to consider the possibility that you might be wrong.

1st, I know the concept of speed binning.

2nd, one of the major limits for high clock speed GPUs is TSMC. I'm setting for 1600 Mhz GPU NOT 3-4 GHZ GPU. Your 3-4GHz GPUs is a red herring.

3rd, FinFET 14nm is from Samsung not TSMC.

4th, AMD's 40 watts Polaris 11 = desktop GTX 950 shows mass market NOT special speed-bin low power versions. AMD is doing it's own improved Maxwell.

NVIDIA shown 750 Ti's performance per watt marketing potential and AMD doing the same for Polaris.

On raw numbers, Polaris 11 with 18 CU at 1600Mhz is actually 2X from PS4's 18 CU at 800Mhz, but much faster.

From "PS4K information (~2x GPUpowerplus clock increase, new CPU, price, etc)" statement

Options

1. Polaris 10 with 36 CU and 800 Mhz,

2. Polaris 11 with 18 CU and 1600 Mhz,

@ronvalencia: Whatever. :/ You're just making a bunch of assumptions based on pieced together ideas and random assumptions, so let's just wait until we see what retail Polaris is like so we can see which of us eats crow. I HIGHLY doubt that we'll see a 1600MHz reference clock though, and I doubt even more that power and voltage binning will become obsolete just because of using Samsung. If Samsung's process were that amazing, I would think that Nvidia would want to use it too. It sounds like you're just making things up because you desperately want to believe that there will be 3-4x jumps in console performance this year in spite of all known information saying otherwise.

Also, I was talking about voltage binning, not speed binning.

From "PS4K information (~2x GPU power plus clock increase, new CPU, price, etc)" statement

Options before factoring architecture improvements i.e. raw power.

1. Polaris 10 with 36 CU and 800 Mhz,

2. Polaris 11 with 18 CU and 1600 Mhz, I'm setting for 1600 Mhz GPU NOT 3-4 GHZ GPU. Your 3-4GHz GPUs is a red herring. Maxwell GPUs can already reach 1.4 Ghz clock speed. NVIDIA didn't bothered releasing reference cards with high speeds. The old G84 reached 1.4 to 1.5Ghz shader clock speeds.

3-4x jumps is required to meet AMD's minimum PC VR spec for the masses agenda.

Reasons for Samsung vs NVIDIA

1. NVIDIA is suing Samsung.

2. Samsung and Global Foundry are in alliance for 14 nm FinFET.

3. Samsung is in HSA foundation. http://hothardware.com/news/samsung-joins-the-hsa-foundation-your-next-galaxy-with-amd-inside

Major members within AMD's HSA are anti-NVIDIA and anti-Intel.

HSA members may group vote(branch stacking) within Khronos Group to accept AMD's Mantle Vulkan and killed NVIDIA's OpenGL low overhead kitbash future.

4. Samsung is using AMD's unified shader GPU patents to nullify NVIDIA's GPU patents. Prior art AMD's unified shader GPU patent killed NVIDIA's claim for unified shader GPU.

PC VR has nothing to do with any of this. Besides, those are far from the the only two options; your way of thinking is just way too simple.

30 CUs at 1000MHz. That matches up without relying on a ridiculous clock speed (or your flimsy explanation for why it's possible), doesn't rely on perfect yields, and can still be smaller than the PS4's GPU (Polaris 10 is larger). That even comes out to more than double, while also having a clock increase. It fits perfectly. Meanwhile, your first option fails on the size and clock speed parts, while your second one is a wild, baseless assumption of something that has almost no chance of being possible. The only reason you even though of it was due to your lack of imagination. I mean, Polaris 11 is rumored to be a 22CU part, so I would think you'd at least consider 20CUs @1450MHz before going completely nuts. You're acting like you've put all of this thought and research into it, yet you couldn't come up with more than two ways to get to one large number by multiplication.

Have you estimated the chip size for Polaris 11 vs Polaris 10 from AMD's scaled diagram?

We know the size for Polaris 10 with 232 mm^2.

From AMD's scaled diagram, the estimated chip area size for Polaris 11 is 108 mm^2 which is about half of Polaris 10's chip area size.

There's a benchmark leak that shown the spec for Polaris 10 with 36 CU.

A straight 2X applied for 7770's 10 CU has 20 CU. Polaris 11's chip size is similar to 7770. Polaris 11 has 40 watts against mass market GTX 950 and R9-270X(20 CU 1Ghz) result.

A straight 2X applied for 7870's 20 CU has 40 CU. Polaris 10's chip size is similar to 7870. AMD shows Polaris 10 Nano card to match R9-390X/Fury Nano/Fury Pro.

@ronvalencia said:

Have you estimated the chip size for Polaris 11 vs Polaris 10 from AMD's scaled diagram?

We know the size for Polaris 10 with 232 mm^2.

From AMD's scaled diagram, the estimated chip area size for Polaris 11 is 108 mm^2 which is about half of Polaris 10's chip area size.

There's a benchmark leak that shown the spec for Polaris 10 with 36 CU.

I can't tell if you have poor reading comprehension or what, but this doesn't contest anything I said in my previous post. I said that Polaris 10 is larger, not 11. I know that Polaris 11 is smaller.

Sony is making a big mistake by dividing their fanbase. Seriously I buy my consoles because I know that I wont need to upgrade the Hardware to play upcoming games. Sad times are coming :( ...... Really not a fan about what is to come for console gaming

@techhog89: Why do you resort to snarky comments going at RValencia? He is making resonanble ideas about which way Sony may be going (using the numerous leaks and available data that is out there for interpretation). If you don't agree with his view and ideas then state so using your counterarguments without resorting to snarky comments. RValencia is giving us good stuff in my opinion and your "wait and see what happens we don't know anything" counterargument is SO lame I mean seriously this is a gaming forum what else is there to do here but discuss such things for enjoyment. If you want to wait and see and not have a thought about it until it happens then get out of this forum and go stare at a wall and wait. Bye.

old ps4 will still play the games

I know, but the quality will take a nosedive, compared to the ps4k version

Would be quite feasible to say that the new upcoming games run the same as the current ones on ps4, ps4k will just run them better, so it's not exactly a nosedive? But I do get what you are after, you no longer have best possible version that's available

yup, thats exactly my concern :(

@techhog89:

You asserted "You're acting like you've put all of this thought and research into it, yet you couldn't come up with more than two ways to get to one large number by multiplication."

For Polaris 11,

I based my CU count limit from AMD's scaled diagram i.e. counting the pixels with Polaris 10 = 232 mm^2 and known 36 CU benchmark leak..

My clock speed estimate was based from Nvidia Maxwell overclocks and the following Samsung/GoFlo 14 nm FinFET presentation.

Note

1. "faster switching speed" which indicates higher clock speed bias.

2. lowest off state leakage i.e. needs less voltage for on and off states.

I agree with this. There was a recent poll here on what will PS4 owners will do when PS4K comes and the majority of the results states that they will stay on the PS4. It's going to suck when there are PS4K only playable games not playable on the regular old PS4. It's understandable why most will stay on the PS4 because it looks like the PS4K is not going to be much of an upgrade anyway but it's going to suck that the PS4 is not powerful enough to give the best VR experience and I have a feeling there will be PS4K version of games which are way better than regular old PS4 version. This is why I appreciate Phil saying if they're going to release a new Xbox, they want to make it leaps and bounds more powerful than the Xbox One. They're not going to go half ass like the competition, they're going to go big and if I'm going to take a wild guess, who knows, this new Xbox might blend the line even more as being more PC compatible.

Where did you get that there are going to be games that are only on PS4K? That would be insanely stupid by Sony

exactly. Hell if this stupid trend takes on, then good bye my beloved hobby as a console gamer :/

Are you his alt? Because I have presented counterarguments many times over.

I have offered counterarguments. He ignores them and comes up with wild theories out of nowhere that even contradict the information he's using to support his point. For example, he's using the "2x PS4" leak combined with the performance leak to prove that PS4k may be 4x as power as PS4. How does that make any sense? And the idea that there will be a 1600MHz GPU is completely baseless. He literally said that it's possible because Samsung isn't TSMC. I mean... What?

The reason i said "wait and see" is that there isn't enough information to support his arguments, especially the 1600MHz Polaris 11. We need to actually see the specs before we can say if something like that is possible. There has never been a consumer GPU with such a high clock speed by default. As it stands, there's nothing to even hint at that possibility. He's also assuming that voltage binning is now obsolete which, again, isn't supported by any known information. It's also because he's tiring and the only way to shut him up is counter every single argument he could possibly make in one shot, since he likes to use arguments that I've already countered many times over but didn't address in the specific post I replied to. If you're not his alt, the only reason you're falling for it is due to how it's presented.

Its just an assumption, but given that the gpu is rumored to be twice as powerful, I won't doubt that his assumptions isn't far from the truth(especially if you consider the VR games and their increased quality)

@techhog89: LoL no I am not his alt but I enjoy reading discussions on these sort of videogame topics. Just dislike the idea that we should all just be quiet and wait and see. Just enjoy the friendly speculation that is all.

From what I've gathered, a reason they even thought about making a PS4K is because the PS4 isn't powerful enough to have the best VR experience. So it's safe to assume there will be PS4K only games and PS4K versions of games not playable on PS4 because it isn't powerful enough. I feel this whole mid generation upgrade or whatever is pretty silly but for whatever reason the gaming industry is swaying towards it. I guess these console makers wants to capitalize on new or updated tech like VR and hop on the 4K wagon as soon as possible.

@ronvalencia said:

@techhog89:

You asserted "You're acting like you've put all of this thought and research into it, yet you couldn't come up with more than two ways to get to one large number by multiplication."

Note

1. "faster switching speed" which indicates higher clock speed bias.

2. lowest off state leakage i.e. needs less voltage for on and off states.

I'm not even sure what you're trying to prove here. That 14nmFF is better than 20nm and 28nm? Shocking. And I didn't argue that clock speeds wouldn't be higher, but to say that they'll be that much higher is, again, baseless. If I'm proven wrong, so be it; however, why have 800MHz version in the first place in that case? You're given an inch, and you take a lightyear. It's such a ridiculous stretch to say that voltage binning is no longer needed because of lower leakage (which is something that is constantly improving as process technology improves) that it really seems like you don't know what you're really talking about. The fact that you think that the shader clock clock from older Nvidia cards is the same as a core clock shows that even more. You did a lot of research, but you clearly decided on what to think before doing so.

Well, that's not what I'm saying; I'm saying that his support for his speculation is too flimsy. It's like if someone told you that they saw a huge spider and you decided to move to another continent because the spider might be 10-stories tall. His speculation is on the extreme end of possibilities, as you can see from his last post. He's also already decided that PS4k will be at least 4x faster than PS4, to the point that he had to think of a way to use the ~2x leak as proof of that. He's all over the place here! Since he takes any tiny thing that could possibly hint at the possibility of him maybe having a chance of being right as proof that he is right, literally the only thing that can be done is to wait for more info. I'm not even saying to wait for more info on the consoles; I'm saying to wait for more info on Polaris. He's filling in too many holes on his own.

@techhog89 said:

@ronvalencia said:

@techhog89:

You asserted "You're acting like you've put all of this thought and research into it, yet you couldn't come up with more than two ways to get to one large number by multiplication."

Note

1. "faster switching speed" which indicates higher clock speed bias.

2. lowest off state leakage i.e. needs less voltage for on and off states.

I'm not even sure what you're trying to prove here. That 14nmFF is better than 20nm and 28nm? Shocking. And I didn't argue that clock speeds wouldn't be higher, but to say that they'll be that much higher is, again, baseless. If I'm proven wrong, so be it; however, why have 800MHz version in the first place in that case? You're given an inch, and you take a lightyear. It's such a ridiculous stretch to say that voltage binning is no longer needed because of lower leakage (which is something that is constantly improving as process technology improves) that it really seems like you don't know what you're really talking about. The fact that you think that the shader clock clock from older Nvidia cards is the same as a core clock shows that even more. You did a lot of research, but you clearly decided on what to think before doing so.

The demo'ed Polaris 10 was in Fury Nano size card was not in the typical large cooler solution. Polaris 10 with 36 CU and 800Mhz is most likely early engineering sample e.g. 7878/7970 Ghz Edition doesn't exist during engineering sample stage.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1202462

"They stated that the GPU is twice as powerful as standard PS4 and much faster. They did not say exactly how fast but that is was running at a higher clock speed while being much smaller than the original."

Polaris 10's 232 mm^2 is slightly larger than the original's 212 mm^2, hence PS4K is pointing towards Polaris 11, but if "smaller than the original" refers to the overall APU size than Polaris 10 can be candidate for PS4K.

The statement for "GPU is twice as powerful as standard PS4 and much faster" mirrors AMD's "2.5X performance per watt" improvements.

PS4's 1.84 TFLOPS with 2.5X performance per watt = 4.6 TFLOPS i.e. R9-290 range which is the minimum PC VR spec. You can do it via horizontal method via CU increase or vertical method via clock speed increase or a little bit of both.

GOW4 (God of War 4) is the launch title for PS4K.

Intel's IGP clock speed exceeds 1Ghz not just NVIDIA GPUs.

So, you're taking 2x extremely literally, which leads you to believe it runs at 1600MHz? That's... quite the stretch. Although, you were saying 1600MHz before this rumor even popped up, so that's clear confirmation bias. Also... Actually, before I say this one, is English your second language? I don't want ton put my foot in my mouth.

You don't want to necessarily alienate a large userbase by releasing an upgraded system; moreover, one that will undoubtedly force consumers and developers to shift their bases.

So, he's saying he'd rather have it be upgradeable? versus releasing a whole new system?

Way I see it, they could just provide supplemental processing power through a USB 3.0 connected device. Beats needing to buy a whole entire system.

Frankly, I think MS is holding off on details and I think Sony just the same has held off on details. I think what this boils down to are each of them are waiting to see what Nintendo pulls out of their hat at the NX reveal later this month. If Nintendo goes the beefcake console route, Sony and MS are upgrading. If Nintendo goes the modest console with their signature first party content, then this just helps the system play 4K Blu-rays and upscale 1080p to 4K or maybe even handle games at a higher native resolution for higher output settings but nothing revolutionary as to make the games scale similarly.

Still, me personally, I'd rather Sony/Microsoft stick with 1080p/60fps standard and use that extra power to get better performance at that output standard, versus wasting that potential on 4K.

IF there is an announcement, and that's a big IF in my opinion.

I think the announcement will just be an Xbox one with a motherboard/chassis that allows for upgrades. basically it'll be an Xbox one at base but there will be a piece of plastic that contains components like a GPU + RAM that easily plug into a slot. remaining Xbox one's will get support until the end of the gen but would play a a lower res and missing features.

If that's the case and they have some trade in policy it may not be too bad might even reinvigorate the user base. I'd still rather them just hold out for at least one more year and announce it as a new console. OR.... they could literally be alluding to the announcement of the nextXBOX. which.... would... be... stupid af.

I don't know. A confusing time this year in gaming is.

Wrong, Polaris 11 at about 40 watts that yields R9-270X/GTX 950 like results has a lot of potential which the main point for the demo.

If MS isn't going to do an upgrade then it seems less likely to me that PS4K is an upgrade as far as games go. Maybe it's just PS4 with HDMI 2.0 and 4k blu ray. I just can't imagine that MS would allow Sony to release a new version of their console that is 2X as powerful as the previous version without responding in some way. With that being said I think it would be harder for MS to do than it would be for Sony though because of X1's memory architecture and the data move engines and all that jazz. They'd have to go to a new kind of memory architecture to do an upgrade and wouldn't compatibility be compromised if they did that? Just seems like a more difficult move for them imo.

There will be no games that only run on PS4K, like another poster said Sony are not that stupid. Nobody knows how much of an upgrade the new console will be but it will NOT be running videogames in 4K it most likely will have a 4K blu ray player and that will be the main part of the upgrade. To run games in 4K the console would need to cost as much as a very high end PC which any fool should know is never going to happen.

Spencer has already been bleating on about mid-gen upgrades for Xbox One, now he says they won't do a 1.5 upgrade so we can only assume he is saying it will be a whole new console which, even for him, is an incredibly stupid thing to suggest. He's a complete moron.

But Pc multiplat games already exist, why would they not implement features PC versions have into the PS4 version if it can handle it. Some PS4 games already have graphical advantages over Xbox One games, the PS4K will just have more of them, better shadows, better LOD different lighting effects for example look at the PC and console versions of Witcher 3, that sort of thing.

Not sure if usb3 would have enough bandwidth for that either. Consoles being able to upscale to 4K seems quite moot as all 4K tv's do that already(some not very well tho)

USB 3.0 isn't even remotely fast enough for that.

Trying to speculate about what MS and Sony have planned is pretty hard at the moment considering the info that we have available, but fun none the less.

If I had to guess, I would think that both Sony and MS were both planning on some sort of hardware upgrade. Sony was probably a bit further ahead in this process, and perhaps MS learned of this about a month ago.

If I were Phil, I would likely be doing the same as gim at this point as far as pr goes. First, he throws the mid gen upgrade quip out there, so that MS can get out ahead of any announcement or leak regarding the PS4k. It somewhat softens the hype a bit, which ultimately helps MS. Now that the leaks have happened, and he's had a chance to see the negative feedback, he is adjusting his stance in order to please potential consumers.

Here's where things get interesting.

I think MS is holding off on whatever upgrade they were considering before. Corporate espionage is a very real thing, and I'm fairly sure at this point that MS at least has a fairly good idea of what the PS4k will be made of, and what kind of performance it might have. If that's true, then MS have a good chance to take advantage of the situation.

Sony may have been forced to blow their load too soon. With PSVR coming later this year, Sony may have felt they they had little other option than to upgrade the PS4 now in order to fully take advantage of their VR. Rumors of the NX being comparably powerful may have further fueled them to do so now as well.

MS is in a good position because they can simply wait, see what the PS4k truly is, and then release something superior. We might well see the PS4k release late 2016 or early 2017, and then MS releasing something in late 2017. If MS does that, then it all but assures them that they will have the most powerful console on the market over the next few years. Sony's hands would be tied at that point. What could they do? The PS4k would've only been on the market for less than a year at that point. There's no way they could release anything superior.

It's all just speculation of though. There's really no telling what might happen.

There's only Polaris 10 and 11 solutions to semi-customise... Vega 10 chip is too big for the consoles.

Remember, both Xbox One and PS4 largely based their GPUs from PC SKUs.

PS4 = 7870 reduce to 18 CU, 800 Mhz, added 8 ACE units, revised L2 cache, 256bit GDDR5 8GB. At least GCN 1.1.

XBO = 7790 reduce to 12 CU, 853 Mhz, GCN 1.1, 32 MB ESRAM, 256 bit DDR3 8GB.

I don't always talk about 4K but, when I do I brag about it being better on PC master race. All hail PC master race!

@ronvalencia: Yeah, I get that.

If MS were to wait until late 2017, then couldn't they go HBM, and ditch the esram?

There is no division of fanbase.

The quality already took a nosedive compare to PC,is not like we are playing 1440p Ultra on PS4 wake up dude.

The PS4 version will continue to be the same as it is,while the PS4k will run better for obvious reasons.

Then move to PC as you are playing the inferior version already.

There will no bet any game that is playable on PS4k and not regular PS4 you are pulling that from deep deep down your buns,is not like already on PC exist components even more powerful than what ever the PS4k will carry inside and still we get multiplatforms,hell even the damn 360 got Tomb Raider,so stop there is no game on PS4k that the normal PS4 can't run tuned down.

You mean like they went big with the XBO.? You know that if the PS4k is real and has a 2xGPU of the current PS4 it will have something stronger than a R9 380? Which is considerable stronger than the xbox one.

You call it half ass but if it is true a R9 380 is like 3 times stronger or more than the XBO.

By the way what i think is that MS knew the PS4k was coming either by leak of a developer or leak of AMD,one thing is for sure,maybe this is the real reason why xbox one exclusives are landed on windows 10 stores,i think this is MS way of telling xbox one owners that if the want better graphics on xbox games get a PC with windows 10.

I don't know about that. Of course we don't know for sure yet what PS4k will be but if it is twice as powerful as PS4 like is speculated do you really believe that won't have an impact on PS4 titles? Seems to me some developers will get extra ambitious and will be targeting the PS4k as the lead platform and PS4 versions could end up at 720p. I don't really think that's a bad thing cuz they'd be beautiful 720p games, half the resolution of what most PS4 games have been up to this point but twice as much going on. That would amount to an effect on PS4.

Not at all man and is very simple for 2 reasons.

1-Sony will not screw it self up by making n even more expensive version to have it on a userbase ultra small and don't get back their returns,what i see from sony now is a mentality of making cash and doing 1 version would not cut sales in half it would actually kill their profits we don't know how that PS4k will sell or if people will keep buying the cheaper model more.

2-This is already true on PC,again developers target 4k on PC,ultra settings 60FPS and you get a dumb down version of what is on PC,if that would have being the case The Witcher 3 would have being 720p on PS4,not even on xbox one was 720p,remember that they target the spec of each platform,on PC you get 4k Ultra on PS4 you get 1080p mid low and 30 or sub 30,this is the case now,and no matter how powerful the PS4k comes out it will never have something as strong as on PC,even if it carry the very best GPU out there,on PC you can carry 2 or 3 of those same ones.

So you see the PS4k is already beat by PC and is not out,so i don't think anything will change you still will get mostly 1080p and some 900p on PS4 like it has being for a while,the PS4k will get probably 1080p ultra,i don't think 4k is on the table for PS4,unless we are talking about GT which is a racing game or games pull back to low settings to achieve 4k.

Phil isn't dumb, Xbone is in such a sorry state that saving it isn't worth it. "Xbox One" is associated with failure. Why would you spend time and resources upgrading something that is viewed as a failure? The reason they're aren't upgrading the xbone isn't because Phil thinks that X1.5 isn't a good thing, no. They aren't upgrading the system because the name is being laughed at, that's how bad it gotten. Would you want Nintendo to upgrade their WiiU? No, because no one even knows its a separate thing, a thing that isn't some addon to the Wii. Letting failed consoles die out is the best thing to do. That's what MS is currently doing.

You dont get it. I know that I'm playing a inferior Version to PC games. Read my comment again, I usually buy my consoles because I know that I wont need to upgrade Hardware like for PC Games.

Why should we suddenly buy a superior PS4 to play ps4 games in better quality? We buy consoles to play the best version possible for the console, with PS4k arriving it wont be the case anymore.

You don't need to upgrade,there is a difference between needing and having to.

You don't have to buy it sony is not forcing you and you can stay with your current model,in fact i am sure it will be compatible with all games on PS4k.

No we buy consoles because they have certain exclusives i could care less if some one else can run it better,reality is Uncharted is not on PC so yeah you need a PS4 or sony platform if you want to play the best version of multiplatforms get them on PC this gen more than any other,as you don't only get the superior version you also get free online play.

People never bough consoles to get the superior version of games,if that was true the xbox would have killed the PS2,or the N64 the PS1.