People didnt play NES for the graphics.... right.....

@dzimm: For almost every multiplat, the C64 versions usually have less colours and sprites, and lower resolutions and frame rates, than the NES versions.

@StormyJoe: Memories can be deceiving. The screenshots and footage clearly demonstrate the 7800 versions having lower resolutions and frame rates than the NES versions.

Instead of comparing the NES hardware to the C64 and 7800 (both were weaker in terms of graphics and performance), you guys could've easily made the same points by comparing it to the SMS and Amiga (both easily outclassed the NES hardware at the time).

He He. It's amazing all the screenshots of the games mentioned here lack the scan lines of the originals. ;)

I experimented with image and video capture when I got my first TV tuner back in 1994. Every console game I did an image capture of had scan lines.

Nope. First off, my friends in junior high and I agreed that the 7800/NES games looked better on my 7800 (all my friends had a NES). Then, my roommates and I played with my NES and 7800 in college. Granted, we were drunk, but not *that* drunk. We all were surprised that the 7800 games looked better.

You're just incorrect. Sorry.

Oh, and if you kept watching your video until 7:11, you'd hear him say that the 7800 version is much closer to the arcade version, which explains the graphics difference.

Here's a website that shows several side-by-side comparisons:

http://retro-sanctuary.com/Comparisons%20Main.html

As a general observation, the C64 was capable of more natural colors and sharper, more detailed backgrounds while the NES tended to have higher-resolution sprites but gaudy colors and less detailed backgrounds. So I take back what I said about the C64 being a vastly superior piece of hardware. Just looking at the end results, it seems they were mostly comparable with different strengths, which is a heck of a thing when you consider that the NES came out several years after the C64.

Did the C64 released in 1982, a year before the Famicom (1983) and was re-branded and modified as the NES in the Western market in 1985?

@StormyJoe: That's anecdotal and subjective, which doesn't prove anything. What is objective are the raw numbers. The screenshots show the NES has higher-resolution playfields (256x224 pixels) for all three games (Xevious, Commando, Ikari Warriors), whereas the 7800 versions have lower-resolution playfields of 128x176 pixels (for Xevious), 160x185 pixels (for Commando) and 128x177 pixels (for Ikari Warriors). And the video footage shows the NES has smooth 60fps scrolling for all three games, whereas the 7800 versions of Commando and Ikari Warriors stutter while scrolling.

@dzimm: The C64 displays less colours on screen (15 colours) than the NES (25 colours on screen). The C64 backgrounds are also lower resolution (160x200 pixels) than the NES (256x224 pixels). The C64 also displays less hardware sprites on screen (8 sprites) than the NES (64 sprites). Also, the NES/Famicom released one year after the C64 in Japan, but came several years later in Western markets.

You're right... I was thinking of the US release date. Still, like I said, just looking at the end results, they're comparable systems.

@goldenelementxl said:

The 80's are back, baby!

@Jag85As for the SMS, what killed it in North America was its weak launch line-up. By the time the SMS was able to build-up a great library, it was too late in North America. But Sega learnt from their mistakes and made sure to launch in Europe with a great library, allowing the SMS to beat the NES in Europe.

Yeah, 100% because the biggest software houses were all tied to the NES by contract. Hence dicking everyone else's attempt to launch a console.

When it launched two years later in Europe it had loads of games. Besides, 80% of NES games are garbage. This cannot be said for SMS which has comparatively few stinkers in it's library.

The NES was underpowered when it was released but it did have hardware for moving sprites which I can't believe the 7800 didn't have. But they chose a colour palette of muddy dark earth tones. From a graphic designer's perspective, that decision is strange. The C46 was even worse though, which is practically all light purples and blues! To be honest, I think the ZX Spectrum's 7 colours (16 with shadow / highlight) and a limit to 2 colours per 8x8 square could look better than some NES games (moving at least), simply because the ZX had a higher clock rate and resolution.

But if you cared about graphics you bought an NES, but only because you lived in North America and SMS had hardly any games and was hardly advertised. When you compared the two in the UK for instance, the NES looked pretty pathetic and so it hardly sold any with Virgin putting out loads of good adverts. In UK, NES marketing and distribution etc was completely bungled.

I remember seeing an NES in the basement of a big department store, Debenham's and it was just Mario, standing still, on a 1 colour blue background. It was like a study in empty stillness, down there in the basement. It was also the first time I'd seen a console game before the Atari 2600 and that one image was hardly even a step up. I did have a go and just thought, man it looks a bit empty, graphically. I was used to Spectrum games at the time which could look alot more interesting.

Compare that with, one of my clearest memories, which is watching as the owner of an independant game shop 'Intoto' proudly displayed Sonic the Hedgehog to me. He was just brimming with admiration and pride at the game and I have never since been more impressed by a console game than at that point.

One advantage the NES had upon launch in North America was the fact that the Famicom had already been out for nearly three years in Japan, so it already had a large library from before. Whereas the SMS had barely been out for a year in Japan, so it didn't have enough time to build-up a solid library. By the time the SMS launched in Europe in 1987, the SMS was more ready, with a large launch line-up of quality titles. And by that time, the SMS had an answer to Super Mario Bros, with Alex Kidd in Miracle World, a game that significantly improved on SMB in many ways.

The NES was underpowered in 1987 because, by that time, you had the SMS and 16-bit micros (Amiga and Atari ST) making the NES look rather primitive in comparison. But on the other hand, the NES had generally stronger hardware than the 8-bit micros (C64, ZX Spectrum, BBC Micro) in terms of graphics and performance, since the 8-bit micros were even older than the NES. So the NES hardware was right in the middle, above the 8-bit micros, but below the SMS and 16-bit micros.

It doesn't make sense to directly compare the clock rates of different CPU architectures. The ZX and SMS use a Zilog Z80, whereas the NES and C64 use a 6502 (or a variation of it). The Z80 usually had a higher clock rate because it requires more cycles per instruction, whereas the 6502 requires less cycles per instruction, which meant the 6502 has a similar performance to the Z80 at half the clock rate. In other words, the reason the SMS was stronger than the NES wasn't because of its higher CPU clock rate, but for other reasons including a better VDP graphics processor, more memory, and faster bandwidth. Also, the ZX has a lower resolution (256x192) than the NES (256x224).

One reason for the failure of the NES in Europe (especially the UK) was due to entering a crowded market without having much to offer that stands out from the competition. It launched around the same time as the SMS, which had stronger hardware along with a software library that was comparable in quality. Even the potential killer-app Super Mario Bros had little impact, because the SMS had an even better platformer, Alex Kidd in Miracle World. And the biggest advantage the NES had over the SMS, the larger NES software library, didn't matter much in Europe, since the 8-bit micros had even larger libraries. So the NES looked weak compared to the SMS in terms of hardware, couldn't beat the SMS in quality software either, and the NES software library wasn't as large as the 8-bit micros either. As a result, the NES failed in Europe, whereas the SMS succeeded with its quality software and hardware.