Pachter: Nintendo "Still in denial about Wii U failure"

I have to admit, while I don't wish failure upon Nintendo, I have to say that I can't help but watch them with the most morbid sense of curiosity. It's a slow train wreck I can't divert my gaze from, and it's fascinating. It seems (especially of late) Nintendo can't go even a couple of weeks without doing something that makes me slap my face in astonishment. If this company continues on this path, they will not be in a good position come the near (and far) future. The more time passes, the harder it will become for them.

Something has to change. It's going to be interesting to see the future for Nintendo. They just will not be able to get away with their bullshit anymore, people are getting to the point of not putting up with it. Rightly so. Finally, FINALLY, it appears that many are coming to the understanding that this "management" is not working, something I've been shouting for years. I care more about Nintendo's well-being than being validated in my position, but it's still nice to see that some can come around.

Case in point...

You assuming that you only learn what not to do or bad examples in design/brand/marketing classes says a lot about how much you know about the subject.

You dont even seem to understand how college education works, which is totally fine but....

Still baffles the **** out of me that the WiiU isn't $£100 yet. Like seriously Nintendo, c'mon on. The console has such little traction I cannot believe they haven't dropped the price yet to encourage some fail sale style hardware uptake. It's genuinely like they're oblivious to what's going on lol.

You, like all other dysfunctional posters, are debating about the wrong thing. Yes. he rounded down 72,800 to 70,000. So what? Does that change the point he was making? No. Does that invalidate the point he was making? No.

Learn to see the difference between a discussion/debate and a court case. This isn't a court case whereby if your 'evidence' presented isn't 100% accurate, your defense is immediately invalidated, or turns into a conjecture.

Nintendo may be aware that the Wii U is a failure. There are however, not quite aware about the reason for its failure. I truly believe that they think the Wii U failed because SSBB, Zelda and Mario weren't out yet. Yes, the release of those games will and have boosted the Wii U sales, but it won't turn everything around. Nintendo is refusing to admit that the success and failure of their console depends on more than just their 1st party games. It may not have been the case many years back, but it is the case now.

I think Nintendo is well aware of the fact that their console is failing, but their not going to publicly admit it, that would be incredibly stupid.

They're making money though which is a good thing for them.

I appreciate Nintendo being unique and not trying to be like the other two consoles. But at the same time I'm not sure how long they could do that without any negative consequences. I think the gaming audience continues to get larger on the PS4 and Xbox One while Nintendo are staying in the little bubble they've made for the Wii U. I think it's just a matter of time when that's going to pop. The day a new Nintendo console is on par with the new consoles, is the day I'll finally buy another Nintendo console, or if the Wii U get as low as $50 to $90 bucks no later than this year. :P

I'm pretty sure Nintendo realises how much of a failure their Wii U is. However, they will and should never admit it. Why? It doesn't benefit them financially in any way whatsoever. Acting confident despite the failure may not ensure a great outcome, but it should at least lead to the least bad outcome.

Wii glory days? Just typing that is gross.

Yes yes, sales and such...

They need to go back to the Gamecube glory days, but also catch up to the modern world and be aggressive. They'll be fine no matter what as long as they make profit on all their hardware.

I really don't see them being successful with QOL, other companies beat them to that nonsense. Now if they had that at the start of last generation, they would have made a second killing.

Nintendo is going to have a very hard time if they want to make a ton more money than they have in the past, but if they just focus on games and get their heads out of their ass, they will never become a Sega.

Nah, no denial. Just doing what they can to get profit. I can see from several of their moves lately that they are being conservative business wise, whilst also doing some random experiments here and there. Okay for us when it comes to Nintendo's output, but at the same time bad for us when it comes to many other things.

Hoping they fix their issues in the coming years. I'm not one to give two fucks about a lot of the complaints people have about them, and apparently to some people I'm part of the problem, but I will say in defense that I can see the issues presented, and it would be good for them to start trying to successfully find solutions to these issues. More improvement is always a good thing after all.

I think it's worth mentioning that Nintendo really isn't in the position of completely washing their hands of the Wii U either. Low selling or not, if Nintendo were to bail right now to invest in a new console, they would have effectively burnt the good will of people who did invest in it. The fact that Nintendo now has three gens worth of a reputation of being the "Secondary Console" means Third Party Devs probably still won't support Nintendo's next console, even if it has matching hardware specs to the PS4 and XB1.

I meant that the fact that it's studied in design classes, which are jokes, is a bad thing, not that design courses only study bad examples. Not that I would find that hard to believe to be honest, but it's not what I said.

I have a degree in physics and and I'm studying for a master degree in laser technologies...so yeah, I'd be willing to bet you're the one who doesn't know how "education" works here.

Still would have sold roughly the same. The console is only selling to the die hard Nintendo fanbase who would have paid whatever the cost was to play the next Mario Kart and Smash titles.

That isn't cheap for an exclusive only box. $199.99 is the most that console should cost and no I'm not joking.

Eh? WiiU has apparently been profitable for some time.

http://time.com/3545580/nintendo-wii-u-sales/

the ps3 is outselling the wii u and wii u is barely outselling the vita and the GameCube has has sold at a faster rate than the wii u

@emgesp: I would say more like 150

I meant when it first launched, but yes the Wii U needs a price cut. There is nothing about the Wii U that justifies the $299.99 price tag. Yes, I know Nintendo wants to make a profit on that console, but I'm pretty sure they will still be able to make a profit even after a price cut.

Do the other consoles have more games and more variety? Yes. But they just aren't very good games, and are generally a terrible value. I only own a PS4 still at this point for the very rare good game from Sony (Uncharted and God of War not among those fyi) or a third party, (very, very, very rare) and for From Software and Atlus titles. (Bloodborne, DS2: SotfS, Persona 5) The vast bulk of the software on these other systems, just isn't very good. What a novelty it was when I brought home Bayonetta 2 for Wii U, popped it in my system, and immediately started playing it. No 1-5 GB day one patch, no on disc DLC unlock keys being thrown in my face, no day one DLC being sold to me to give it more than three to five hours of play time. A full, complete, polished, high quality game.

These are a common occurrence on Wii U, they are the norm. They come in at a slow clip, yes, but are absolutely worth it. Meanwhile the others get double the games or more on a constant basis, and are usually overpriced shit. ****, I barely have time to do just a bit of gaming as is, so when I do have some free time to game, why not make sure I make the best of it? Playing games is a hobby, buying multiple games a month and even then spending more time talking about them on a niche internet forum than actually playing them is a sad obsession.

He's an idiot, should Nintendo abandon the system? At least they didn't pussy out like MS with Kinect.

I wonder if the low sales of the Wii U is due to a possible competition between their consoles (Wii U) and handhelds (3DS)?

Honestly, it's awful tough to put down 300 bones on a wiiu when the other consoles offer more for a fraction more.

Nintendo has been promising competent third party support sing the n64 and they've yet to deliver. First party is received well and all but maybe not so much anymore for me... Been there, done that.

Pachter is kind of a dbag, but Nintendo, as much as I want to love, shoots themselves in the face around almost corner in modern gaming... Nobody owes them anything... Sell me a product I want and I'll buy it.

@TheEroica: If I had a PC, why would I spend 400 bucks on a PS4 or an Xbox One when the exclusives simply doesn't justify the price tag (lol at Destiny)? Value is subjective, and let's face it, NOBODY on this forum will only have one console in their lifetime.

The Wii U's value lies in it being an excellent secondary console with next to no overlap. Add it with a PC (prebuilds are a 750ti graphics card away from blowing the PS4 to dust), and you are set for this gen. (unless you love baseball games like me, then the PS4 is literally the only option for it)

@emgesp: ya you can get a next gen console for 50 more dollars, wii u is too expensive. If it were cheaper I could get smash 4

I literally bought a ps3 so I could play baseball... Im right there with you. I also get the argument youre presenting, but where I draw difference is that we need to add in an entire other piece of hardware in the argument as to why the wiiu can be justified against the other stand alone consoles... I think its unfair to say, "the wiiu has such a proprietary library that it contains no overlap with other hardware" doesnt negate the fact that the wiiu as a standalone piece of hardware gets embarrassed by comparison to the console that is within a 50 dollar bill in difference. I totally get the validity in your point of being a multi console/pc owner then the wiiu can fit right in (albeit at a premium price for what it offers, imo) but lets not pretend that when directly comparing consoles for the mammoth number of folks who are NOT investing in multiple hardware, skipping over the wiiU isnt just an option... its the obvious option.

For all the dlc nonsense and online fees people pay for, they could just buy a wiiu. When did this $25 season pass bs start? A lot of times I read comments on this forum and they almost read as not supporting nintendo out of spite. They are the one company that consistently puts out quality game after quality game. This sort of behavior is the kind which should be recognized. Just think of all the people that put down $60 for COD, and then proceed to spend $30(thats a guess) on all its dlc................and then repeat that process how many times?

Buying a wiiu is not expensive. People look at the technology side of things which I can understand somewhat, but theres also the aspect that you are paying for the software and R&D.

@Heirren: honestly, I can't believe that the season pass model hasn't crumbled completely... I mean, are people really getting to the end of games and saying, "let me pay for more of the same"? I've admittedly bought a few dlc single player content for the truly great games I felt were worth it over the past several years... Fallout 3, mass effect, RDR... But who wants to spend extra on a game you've already spent a ton of time with when we all know our backlogs are disgusting. Lol.

As for the pricing and the logic behind Nintendo "spite", I really don't see it that way... It actually pains me that I no longer have a ton of interest in Nintendo anymore :/ I owned the NES on launch week in America... Snes on day one... N64 day one, gamecube, day one, because **** Sony and Microsoft, but I just can't ignore what's before my eyes... As a standalone experience, Nintendo fails at online, hardware, and sheer quantity of great games... Yeah, they still make a great first part game, but what happens when you are done with ssb, Mario Kart and Zelda? What happens when you want to go somewhere else and do something different?

All these consoles have flaws and it's a slippery slope when we start adding other pieces of hardware to the argument, because then it becomes something we can't discuss accurately.

If I'm a consumer and i want to jump into next gen and I see the wiiu at 300 with a dozen great games and a ps4 or xone with far better hardware and a ton of great material on the way, along with proper online and multiplat support for days I'm getting the xone/ps4...

Or...

Im buying an xbox 360 that has an infinitely better lineup than the wiiu, has a better online product and comparable hardware at half the price....

Its not tough to see why the wiiu can't move...

Price it at 150 and consumers on a large scale (not the uber dedicated gamers with rigs and every console) and people will take notice.

@SolidGame_basic: Pachter had a point that Nintendo should have released a console a year or two before the Wii U. They didn't listen and they still haven't learned

There is a thing called console RnD. They couldn't have released the system when it wasn't ready, hell, it was barely ready when they eventually did release it.

Pachter was wrong then, Pachter is wrong now. This isn't to defend Nintendo and their asinine decisions and management issues, but Pachter, amazing as it sounds, has even less of a clue than Nintendo does, and that is saying something.

As further evidence to that statement, Pachter had suggested that Nintendo goes third party for a short time before the next console. Little did he know that once you go that route, there's no way back.

While what you say is true in theory, most people don't even have PC's with dedicated GPU's. A growing number people nowadays don't have a PC at all, and instead are sticking with tablets or at best a laptop style PC or macbook which might not be great for gaming.

People on here are not indicative of the "real world". Most people on here I would assume are super-hardcore gamers - or at least like to have all systems and talk about all systems (i.e. system wars). For most other people, even those "into" gaming, they might only have 1 console and basically want that one console to perform as close to 100% of their gaming needs (as well as possibly do Netflix, play blu-rays, etc).

I know with me, while I have multiple consoles I usually only have 1 hooked up at a time. Even with handhelds I tend to just play 1 for a stretch where I get into a few of the games, then put it away and go the other one for awhile. I am not constantly going back and forth or playing games on them at the same time.

I'm sure Pachter is keenly aware of R&D and lead times and such.

However, there was definitely a "void" at the end of the Wii's lifespan, where there didn't seem to be a great deal of games - and the hardware sales completely dropped off the map, I'm sure this happened because the Wii was the only non-HD capable console. It was a good 12-24 months where I think many in the gaming public were wondering - where the $@%^ is the next Nintendo console and why are they taking so long. Nintendo really had a GREAT opportunity when last gen started to stagnate, they seemed to have a clear path to launch a new system into that void and have a good 12-24 month lead time. 24 month lead time could have been huge for them, if they had created the right system.

As you recall - Nintendo revealed the Wii-U at E3 2011... it was pretty much a disaster of a reveal (the reveal alone caused their stock to crash), then a full 12 months later they "re-introduced the Wii-U and it was... PRETTY MUCH THE SAME THING. When I saw the re-introduced console my initial thought was... really.... it took 12 months to change... NOTHING???. Then it launches, even with the delay there were hardly any games in the 1st year. It's a fair question to wonder, WTF was Nintendo doing during the development cycle of Wii-U??? Clearly they blew it pretty badly.

Nintendo has their heads firmly plunked up their asses. Nothing has changed there. The system is a tragedy in slow motion and they know it but are too spineless to admit it. They need to care more about the strength of their system, and make the thing attractive to 3rd party dev companies.

To be fair, he's not knowledgeable about anything in the industry.

No point now, considering their long ass history of faulty history since the NES/SNES (where the hypocritically nostalgic LOVE them so much in contrast to the N64/GC/Wii/Wii U era?) with modern online wouldn't convince them. (To repeat a Civ reference) Third parties are like a Civ at war with the player, in that they'll refuse to even talk with you, even if you want to talk peace.

Nintendo know the fail on Wii-U and it should been price $99.99 and hopefully when Nintendo make their new consol don't high price it and have third party support and bring back Star Fox,New Zelda,Metriod prime,

Abandoning hardware just burns their fanbase that bought it and Ninty knows it. Something Pachter can't for the life of me can't understand. Someone should point him in the direction of Sega, even though the moron should already know this. I guess we're also talking about the fool that thinks they should go 3nd party for a while, and come back later lol

@2Chalupas: Even then, most of the demography that fits your description is even less interested in a PS4 or an Xbox One. They're more than happy with the PS3 or the Xbox 360, and the rest on tablet or smartphone gaming.

That said, millions of people play League and DOTA 2 every day. PC Gaming is massive, where even laptop gamers can be good at SC2 if they want to (see Scarlett for details).

True, but there is another point. Who but us really fucking care? I really do a lot of talking to gamers in the gaming aisle at Target, or Gamestop and exclusives aren't all that important to many consumers. The most talked about games brought up to me are: This years COD and why it is different; Arkham Knight; Fifa; Madden; NBA; Battlefield. Some have begun to pick up on a game called the Witcher.

Another gamer I know works at a local Gamestop and he and I were praising the WiiU lineup and the fellas on line were all saying, "nah......Toad, Mario type games don't interest me anymore and Nintendo doesn't get the big titles." I like Nintendo but I wouldn't trade my X1 for a WiiU because of those "legitimate exclusives", because I cant play the Witcher3 or Arkham Knight on the WiiU. I don't care how good Smash, Donkey Kong, Mario Kart, Toad are. I'll take access to those two 3rd party games over those exclusives any day.

Ok, what makes Wii a good name? I believe in the quote the words used were, "I think the Wii was a dumb name.......". That's right, I. Not my country believes the Wii was a dumb name; nor that he speaks for all Americans. Typical non American branding all of us as what ever he dislikes about some American he disagreed with at some point.

Pachter is correct that the WiiU is a dead horse-- it ain't getting back up, ever. But he is wrong about the prospects of Nintendo creating new hardware.

If Nintendo can bring itself to acquire a lineup of Western second parties to right its dearth of software (especially a variety of software beyond platformers and party titles), and if they can bring themselves to make a console that is for Western consumers instead of Japanese; then they could actually carve out a market again.

They have to craft a console that is more powerful than PS4/X1 by a good leap and the easiest way to do that is to sidestep the costs of the optical drive and hdd. The paradigm of a system with a hdd is only going to get more and more expensive-- next it will be a 1TB hdd and then 4TB. It's all to get around the slow speed of optical drives and Nintendo would be able to create a far more powerful system by returning to a solid state game medium.

This guy talks a mean game, but he is not far off. Nintendo's home console business has been horrible since they changed from cartridge to disk.

not just nintendo, but all the consoles are starting to suck, they just dont hold a candle to pc, but at least nintendo has its party games that make its console unique....

They should have released a console earlier. Nintendo, didn't listen to developers, they didn't make it easy to develop for, they made a controller that was demanded for the console and it's 1/8th the power of consoles that were launched a year later with only 100 dollars cheaper. Pachter has more of a sense than Nintendo, because they have no clue atm

No they couldn't the Wii U at launch was not ready, it was barely ready when they launch it, it was slow as crap this just getting getting around the menus & boot up...& Nintendo only have 2 games out ..a 2D Mario & well Nintendo Land. Its not Nintendo didn't listen to developers, they didn't bother consulting 3rd party devs..except their own. What Pachter is spewing is nonsense as well. Going 3rd party?..check SEGA...release a new hardware too soon well check SEGA. The only thing Nintendo can do now is pretty much keep current Wii U owners happy...so that hopefully they may support their next system. :P

Pachter saying what we knew years ago. Seriously, his firm could draw a name out of a hat and immediately reap the benefits of actual insight.

Agree on Pachter is a moron.

But there's no defense for Nintendo squandering what likely will be the last advantage they'll ever have with the release of the WiiU. They absolutely could've had a "WiiHD" ready sooner, but they ignored calls for new hardware until the Wii's sales were plummeting. They absolutely could've brought a more capable machine to market when they did and worked overtime to repair their terrible relationships with major 3rd party devs, but they either naively assumed their machine was going to stack up better than it did with the competition, or thought their success with the Wii was going to guarantee them massive sales. Both are inexcusable positions to take from a company with the history of Nintendo.

Instead they gave us the worst of both worlds: a mid-gen machine too late to attract a player base thirsty for new hardware, and too weak to stand beside the fast approaching competition or run most 3rd party games. If that's the best Nintendo RnD was capable of doing flush with cash from Wii sales and with years to work with then they're headed exactly where they belong.

If Pachter is saying this you can rest assured Nintendo will be fine; this idiot consistently proves he know next to nothing about this industry (honestly some of the more rabid among us here could do a better job).