Out of Curiosity. How many people have actually played DOA3/4?

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jrhawk42

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#101 jrhawk42
Member since 2003 • 12764 Posts
I own DOAU and DOA3 and  think they are best fighters of last gen (along w/ tekken 5/tag).  I love how all the characters are pretty well balanced so me and my friends can pretty much put it on random and it's a fair fight everytime.  We'll play 50-60 matches and still not be bored of it.  I liked the fighting system better in 3, but U hands down has the best enviroments I've ever seen.

I haven't played 4 but I don't see any reason why I wouldn't like it, I'm just gonna wait for the price to fall since I'm still busy w/ a couple other games.
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TekkenMaster606

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#102 TekkenMaster606
Member since 2006 • 10980 Posts
If you mean 'favor' a franchise by scoring it better. Then you're correct. But you call GameSpot an embarrassment in another thread...Sounds to me that you can't accept the fact that Tekken and VF are better than DOA. Feel free to cop out however you wish...
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Private_Vegas

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#103 Private_Vegas
Member since 2007 • 2783 Posts
I played 3 and I own 4. DOA is a solid fighting franchise.... the volleyball... not so much.
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XtinctionAgenda

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#104 XtinctionAgenda
Member since 2007 • 628 Posts

If you mean 'favor' a franchise by scoring it better. Then you're correct. But you call GameSpot an embarrassment in another thread...Sounds to me that you can't accept the fact that Tekken and VF are better than DOA. Feel free to cop out however you wish...
TekkenMaster606

I can accept that for you and people like you those franchises are great... but not for me or people like me who own and play better games. That's the point of this thread, to tease out those people who own the better game. Guess what. It's working too. This thread has to be the most flattering DOA thread in GS history. Just read it!

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TekkenMaster606

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#105 TekkenMaster606
Member since 2006 • 10980 Posts

[QUOTE="TekkenMaster606"]If you mean 'favor' a franchise by scoring it better. Then you're correct. But you call GameSpot an embarrassment in another thread...Sounds to me that you can't accept the fact that Tekken and VF are better than DOA. Feel free to cop out however you wish...
XtinctionAgenda

I can accept that for you and people like you those franchises are great... but not for me or people like me who own and play better games. That's the point of this thread, to tease out those people who own the better game. Guess what. It's working too. This thread has to be the most flattering DOA thread in GS history. Just read it!



I own both DOA3 and DOA4. Didn't buy DOAU. And in my opinion, Tekken is better.

Where is your proof that 'it's a better game'? Because a bunch of other opinions say so? I don't think so. The scores at this site mean more than that and that's how it is around here...
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DementedDragon

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#106 DementedDragon
Member since 2003 • 5095 Posts

I can accept that for you and people like you those franchises are great... but not for me or people like me who own and play better games. That's the point of this thread, to tease out those people who own the better game. Guess what. It's working too. This thread has to be the most flattering DOA thread in GS history. Just read it!XtinctionAgenda

So you're not looking for an argument, you're looking for favortism.

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XtinctionAgenda

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#107 XtinctionAgenda
Member since 2007 • 628 Posts

First week sales in Japan.

VF5 = 49,500 units from 675,000 user base

DOA4 = 60,000 units from 80,000 user base

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XtinctionAgenda

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#108 XtinctionAgenda
Member since 2007 • 628 Posts

[QUOTE="XtinctionAgenda"]I can accept that for you and people like you those franchises are great... but not for me or people like me who own and play better games. That's the point of this thread, to tease out those people who own the better game. Guess what. It's working too. This thread has to be the most flattering DOA thread in GS history. Just read it!DementedDragon

So you're not looking for an argument, you're looking for favortism.

I don't like arguing. That's why I wanted to restrict this thread to owners only.
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TekkenMaster606

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#109 TekkenMaster606
Member since 2006 • 10980 Posts
[QUOTE="DementedDragon"]

[QUOTE="XtinctionAgenda"]I can accept that for you and people like you those franchises are great... but not for me or people like me who own and play better games. That's the point of this thread, to tease out those people who own the better game. Guess what. It's working too. This thread has to be the most flattering DOA thread in GS history. Just read it!XtinctionAgenda

So you're not looking for an argument, you're looking for favortism.

I don't like arguing. That's why I wanted to restrict this thread to owners only.

Then it belongs in that games' specific forum...

SELF OWNED...
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waynehead895

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#110 waynehead895
Member since 2005 • 18660 Posts
[QUOTE="waynehead895"]

So why Am I not on the list? Is it because MVC2 is my fav. BTW I defend DoA on here alot. So has OSUfaith.XtinctionAgenda

Who is OSUfaith?

I can't put you on the list because you need total conviction.

Well then let's play right now. Also check my achievements. OSUfaith is some one who has DOA4 all in his sig.

No. I mean either it's your fav fighter or it isn't.

But I still think it's really good. I mean I prefer it over VF and Tekken. But the list you claimed: "The following individuals either own an Xbox/360 DOA game or played them extensively." and "Oddly enough all of the people listed abovehold the opinion that DOA is the best fighting game or that it's very good." I certainly belong on that list.
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XtinctionAgenda

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#111 XtinctionAgenda
Member since 2007 • 628 Posts
[QUOTE="XtinctionAgenda"][QUOTE="DementedDragon"]

[QUOTE="XtinctionAgenda"]I can accept that for you and people like you those franchises are great... but not for me or people like me who own and play better games. That's the point of this thread, to tease out those people who own the better game. Guess what. It's working too. This thread has to be the most flattering DOA thread in GS history. Just read it!TekkenMaster606

So you're not looking for an argument, you're looking for favortism.

I don't like arguing. That's why I wanted to restrict this thread to owners only.

Then it belongs in that games' specific forum...

SELF OWNED...

Mmmm. Nope. This is an experiment designed for SW. It wouldn't work in a games' sepcific forum. There have to be detractors like yourself... for contrast.
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XtinctionAgenda

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#112 XtinctionAgenda
Member since 2007 • 628 Posts
[QUOTE="XtinctionAgenda"][QUOTE="waynehead895"]

So why Am I not on the list? Is it because MVC2 is my fav. BTW I defend DoA on here alot. So has OSUfaith.waynehead895

Who is OSUfaith?

I can't put you on the list because you need total conviction.

Well then let's play right now. Also check my achievements. OSUfaith is some one who has DOA4 all in his sig.

No. I mean either it's your fav fighter or it isn't.

But I still think it's really good. I mean I prefer it over VF and Tekken. But the list you claimed: "The following individuals either own an Xbox/360 DOA game or played them extensively." and "Oddly enough all of the people listed abovehold the opinion that DOA is the best fighting game or that it's very good." I certainly belong on that list.

Put yourself on the list then. And put that other guy OST faith on it too. Put fixed on the end.
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TekkenMaster606

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#113 TekkenMaster606
Member since 2006 • 10980 Posts
No, you are wrong on so many levels it's not even funny anymore.

If you want 'owners' only, take it to that specific forum. End of discussion.
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XtinctionAgenda

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#114 XtinctionAgenda
Member since 2007 • 628 Posts

No, you are wrong on so many levels it's not even funny anymore.

If you want 'owners' only, take it to that specific forum. End of discussion.
TekkenMaster606
No one is asking you to stay and suffer.

This is after all a DOA friendly thread and you are known for your disdain toward that particular franchise.

Perhaps you'd feel better posting somewhere else.

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DementedDragon

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#115 DementedDragon
Member since 2003 • 5095 Posts

I don't like arguing. That's why I wanted to restrict this thread to owners only.XtinctionAgenda

lol, well buddy you posted in the wrong forum.  ^_~

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XtinctionAgenda

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#116 XtinctionAgenda
Member since 2007 • 628 Posts
I

[QUOTE="XtinctionAgenda"]I don't like arguing. That's why I wanted to restrict this thread to owners only.DementedDragon

lol, well buddy you posted in the wrong forum.  ^_~

Is this the arguing forum???
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TekkenMaster606

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#117 TekkenMaster606
Member since 2006 • 10980 Posts

[QUOTE="TekkenMaster606"]No, you are wrong on so many levels it's not even funny anymore.

If you want 'owners' only, take it to that specific forum. End of discussion.
XtinctionAgenda

No one is asking you to stay and suffer.

This is after all a DOA friendly thread and you are known for your disdain toward that particular franchise.

Perhaps you'd feel better posting somewhere else.



A friendly thread in System Wars?

Rolling on the floor with laughter...
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XtinctionAgenda

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#118 XtinctionAgenda
Member since 2007 • 628 Posts
[QUOTE="XtinctionAgenda"]

[QUOTE="TekkenMaster606"]No, you are wrong on so many levels it's not even funny anymore.

If you want 'owners' only, take it to that specific forum. End of discussion.
TekkenMaster606

No one is asking you to stay and suffer.

This is after all a DOA friendly thread and you are known for your disdain toward that particular franchise.

Perhaps you'd feel better posting somewhere else.



A friendly thread in System Wars?

Rolling on the floor with laughter...

 I am glad that I made you feel better. You sounded like you were in tears earlier. It's good that you have a sense of humor.

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DementedDragon

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#119 DementedDragon
Member since 2003 • 5095 Posts

Is this the arguing forum???XtinctionAgenda

It isn't called System Wars for nothing, you can't expect to make a thread without somebody, somewhere starting an argument.

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TekkenMaster606

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#120 TekkenMaster606
Member since 2006 • 10980 Posts
[QUOTE="TekkenMaster606"][QUOTE="XtinctionAgenda"]

[QUOTE="TekkenMaster606"]No, you are wrong on so many levels it's not even funny anymore.

If you want 'owners' only, take it to that specific forum. End of discussion.
XtinctionAgenda

No one is asking you to stay and suffer.

This is after all a DOA friendly thread and you are known for your disdain toward that particular franchise.

Perhaps you'd feel better posting somewhere else.



A friendly thread in System Wars?

Rolling on the floor with laughter...

I am glad that I made you feel better. You sounded like you were in tears earlier. It's good that you have a sense of humor.



Actually, in that thread you made after Crackdown got the 7.8...You even mention Virtua Fighter 5.

You're clearly biased against fighters that are not on the Xbox 360...
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XtinctionAgenda

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#121 XtinctionAgenda
Member since 2007 • 628 Posts

I happen to appreciate better games.

That's hardly a personality flaw.

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TekkenMaster606

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#122 TekkenMaster606
Member since 2006 • 10980 Posts

I happen to appreciate better games.

That's hardly a personality flaw.

XtinctionAgenda


Better?



Where?
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XtinctionAgenda

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#123 XtinctionAgenda
Member since 2007 • 628 Posts
[QUOTE="XtinctionAgenda"]

I happen to appreciate better games.

That's hardly a personality flaw.

TekkenMaster606


Better?

Where?

In Japan... VF5 = 49,500 WK#1 (675,000 PS3s)

DOA4 =60,000 WK#1 (80,000 360s)

/thread

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DevilMightCry

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#124 DevilMightCry
Member since 2007 • 3554 Posts

I've played DOA2, DOA3, and DOA4.

IMHO, DOA series has never been a good fighter compared to VF, Tekken, and Soul Calibur.

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waynehead895

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#125 waynehead895
Member since 2005 • 18660 Posts
Put yourself on the list then. And put that other guy OST faith on it too. Put fixed on the end.XtinctionAgenda
That's who I meant. OST Faith.
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XtinctionAgenda

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#126 XtinctionAgenda
Member since 2007 • 628 Posts

I've played DOA2, DOA3, and DOA4.

IMHO, DOA series has never been a good fighter compared to VF, Tekken, and Soul Calibur.

DevilMightCry

Have you played Tekken and VF? Obviously not.

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TekkenMaster606

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#127 TekkenMaster606
Member since 2006 • 10980 Posts
[QUOTE="TekkenMaster606"][QUOTE="XtinctionAgenda"]

I happen to appreciate better games.

That's hardly a personality flaw.

XtinctionAgenda


Better?

Where?

In Japan... VF5 = 49,500 WK#1 (675,000 PS3s)

DOA4 =60,000 WK#1 (80,000 360s)

/thread



So the sales in Japan determine what games are better than the scores at the website you happen to be posting on?
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XtinctionAgenda

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#128 XtinctionAgenda
Member since 2007 • 628 Posts
[QUOTE="XtinctionAgenda"][QUOTE="TekkenMaster606"][QUOTE="XtinctionAgenda"]

I happen to appreciate better games.

That's hardly a personality flaw.

TekkenMaster606


Better?

Where?

In Japan... VF5 = 49,500 WK#1 (675,000 PS3s)

DOA4 =60,000 WK#1 (80,000 360s)

/thread



So the sales in Japan determine what games are better than the scores at the website you happen to be posting on?

We can only work with the data we have.

I think this case is cut and dried. I mean it's pretty clear that VF5 is an utter failure.

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DevilMightCry

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#129 DevilMightCry
Member since 2007 • 3554 Posts
[QUOTE="DevilMightCry"]

I've played DOA2, DOA3, and DOA4.

IMHO, DOA series has never been a good fighter compared to VF, Tekken, and Soul Calibur.

XtinctionAgenda

Have you played Tekken and VF? Obviously not.

Yes...Obviously...

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XtinctionAgenda

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#130 XtinctionAgenda
Member since 2007 • 628 Posts
[QUOTE="XtinctionAgenda"][QUOTE="DevilMightCry"]

I've played DOA2, DOA3, and DOA4.

IMHO, DOA series has never been a good fighter compared to VF, Tekken, and Soul Calibur.

DevilMightCry

Have you played Tekken and VF? Obviously not.

Yes...Obviously...

What are the chances of someone owning VF Tekken AND DOA? I don't think they're great odds. Plus if you read the first post you'd know you're unwelcomed here unless you OWN those DOA titles... and I doubt you do, so... cya.
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DevilMightCry

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#131 DevilMightCry
Member since 2007 • 3554 Posts
[QUOTE="DevilMightCry"][QUOTE="XtinctionAgenda"][QUOTE="DevilMightCry"]

I've played DOA2, DOA3, and DOA4.

IMHO, DOA series has never been a good fighter compared to VF, Tekken, and Soul Calibur.

XtinctionAgenda

Have you played Tekken and VF? Obviously not.

Yes...Obviously...

What are the chances of someone owning VF Tekken AND DOA? I don't think they're great odds. Plus if you read the first post you'd know you're unwelcomed here unless you OWN those DOA titles... and I doubt you do, so... cya.

Chances are, you're very narrow minded, to think that a fighting fanatic such as myself wouldn't have ALL fighters...

My collection includes, but not limited to

Guilty Gears PS1

Battle Arena Toshinden, 1, 2 PS1

Street Fighter Alpha, 2, and 3 PS1

MK2 SNES, MK3 Sega Saturn, MK Trilogy PS1

Killer Instinct SNES, Killer Instinct Gold.

DOA2 Hardcore PS2, DOA3, DOAU, and DOA4 on MS's consoles

VF4: Evo

Soul Calibur DC

Soul Calibur II Xbox

Capcom vs. SNK 2

Marvel vs Capcom 2

Street Fighter II on XBLA

UMK3 on XBLA

Tekken 2, 3, 4 and 5 on the PS1/PS2

Not only do I own these games, but I'm a pretty good player as well....

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DementedDragon

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#132 DementedDragon
Member since 2003 • 5095 Posts

What are the chances of someone owning VF Tekken AND DOA?XtinctionAgenda

*raises hand*

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XtinctionAgenda

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#133 XtinctionAgenda
Member since 2007 • 628 Posts
[QUOTE="XtinctionAgenda"][QUOTE="DevilMightCry"][QUOTE="XtinctionAgenda"][QUOTE="DevilMightCry"]

I've played DOA2, DOA3, and DOA4.

IMHO, DOA series has never been a good fighter compared to VF, Tekken, and Soul Calibur.

DevilMightCry

Have you played Tekken and VF? Obviously not.

Yes...Obviously...

What are the chances of someone owning VF Tekken AND DOA? I don't think they're great odds. Plus if you read the first post you'd know you're unwelcomed here unless you OWN those DOA titles... and I doubt you do, so... cya.

Chances are, you're very narrow minded, to think that a fighting fanatic such as myself wouldn't have ALL fighters...

My collection includes, but not limited to

Guilty Gears PS1

Battle Arena Toshinden, 1, 2 PS1

Street Fighter Alpha, 2, and 3 PS1

MK2 SNES, MK3 Sega Saturn, MK Trilogy PS2

DOA2 Hardcore PS2, DOA3, DOAU, and DOA4 on MS's consoles

VF4: Evo

Soul Calibur DC

Soul Calibur II Xbox

Capcom vs. SNK 2

Marvel vs Capcom 2

Street Fighter II on XBLA

UMK3 on XBLA

Tekken 2, 3, 4 and 5 on the PS1/PS2

Not only do I own these games, but I'm a pretty good player as well....

Wow. This means you can't participate. You certainly can't focus on any one franchise and so for the purposes of this experiment you've written your self out of contention. I'm sorry.

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XtinctionAgenda

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#134 XtinctionAgenda
Member since 2007 • 628 Posts

[QUOTE="XtinctionAgenda"]What are the chances of someone owning VF Tekken AND DOA?DementedDragon

*raises hand*

What are the chances of modest gamers owning all three? I'd say close to zero.
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DevilMightCry

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#135 DevilMightCry
Member since 2007 • 3554 Posts
[QUOTE="DevilMightCry"][QUOTE="XtinctionAgenda"][QUOTE="DevilMightCry"][QUOTE="XtinctionAgenda"][QUOTE="DevilMightCry"]

I've played DOA2, DOA3, and DOA4.

IMHO, DOA series has never been a good fighter compared to VF, Tekken, and Soul Calibur.

XtinctionAgenda

Have you played Tekken and VF? Obviously not.

Yes...Obviously...

What are the chances of someone owning VF Tekken AND DOA? I don't think they're great odds. Plus if you read the first post you'd know you're unwelcomed here unless you OWN those DOA titles... and I doubt you do, so... cya.

Chances are, you're very narrow minded, to think that a fighting fanatic such as myself wouldn't have ALL fighters...

My collection includes, but not limited to

Guilty Gears PS1

Battle Arena Toshinden, 1, 2 PS1

Street Fighter Alpha, 2, and 3 PS1

MK2 SNES, MK3 Sega Saturn, MK Trilogy PS2

DOA2 Hardcore PS2, DOA3, DOAU, and DOA4 on MS's consoles

VF4: Evo

Soul Calibur DC

Soul Calibur II Xbox

Capcom vs. SNK 2

Marvel vs Capcom 2

Street Fighter II on XBLA

UMK3 on XBLA

Tekken 2, 3, 4 and 5 on the PS1/PS2

Not only do I own these games, but I'm a pretty good player as well....

Wow. This means you can't participate. You certainly can't focus on any one franchise and so for the purposes of this experiment you've written your self out of contention. I'm sorry.

I'm more qualified to say anything regarding Tekken, and DOA series than most of the fanboys here. Who are only going to stick to whatever game they own on their favorite console...But whatever...

I was just posting that DOA is least of my favorite fighter which, by Gamespot member rules I cannot point exactly why, since I am not qualified...

Like I said, whatever kiddos...

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XtinctionAgenda

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#136 XtinctionAgenda
Member since 2007 • 628 Posts
[QUOTE="XtinctionAgenda"][QUOTE="DevilMightCry"][QUOTE="XtinctionAgenda"][QUOTE="DevilMightCry"][QUOTE="XtinctionAgenda"][QUOTE="DevilMightCry"]

I've played DOA2, DOA3, and DOA4.

IMHO, DOA series has never been a good fighter compared to VF, Tekken, and Soul Calibur.

DevilMightCry

Have you played Tekken and VF? Obviously not.

Yes...Obviously...

What are the chances of someone owning VF Tekken AND DOA? I don't think they're great odds. Plus if you read the first post you'd know you're unwelcomed here unless you OWN those DOA titles... and I doubt you do, so... cya.

Chances are, you're very narrow minded, to think that a fighting fanatic such as myself wouldn't have ALL fighters...

My collection includes, but not limited to

Guilty Gears PS1

Battle Arena Toshinden, 1, 2 PS1

Street Fighter Alpha, 2, and 3 PS1

MK2 SNES, MK3 Sega Saturn, MK Trilogy PS2

DOA2 Hardcore PS2, DOA3, DOAU, and DOA4 on MS's consoles

VF4: Evo

Soul Calibur DC

Soul Calibur II Xbox

Capcom vs. SNK 2

Marvel vs Capcom 2

Street Fighter II on XBLA

UMK3 on XBLA

Tekken 2, 3, 4 and 5 on the PS1/PS2

Not only do I own these games, but I'm a pretty good player as well....

Wow. This means you can't participate. You certainly can't focus on any one franchise and so for the purposes of this experiment you've written your self out of contention. I'm sorry.

I'm more qualified to say anything regarding Tekken, and DOA series than most of the fanboys here. Who are only going to stick to whatever game they own on their favorite console...But whatever...

That was my point.

VF / Tekken are only considered better because more people played them.

Thanks for clearing it up for those who didn't get it.

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Conker-Fan

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#137 Conker-Fan
Member since 2007 • 1239 Posts
why are we fighting over fighters? fighters are fun, but dont last very long. They just have been added some more value with online play- VF5 doesnt have that though
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ZimpanX

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#138 ZimpanX
Member since 2005 • 12636 Posts
I have played DOA1 for PS, DOA2 for Dreamcast, DOA3 and Ultimate for Xbox and DOA4 for 360, and it's great fightning series imo :)
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HappyInvader101

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#139 HappyInvader101
Member since 2005 • 3791 Posts
I had DOA4 (before my 360 fell over and it became unplayable). I only got to play it for a week, only really did each characters story mode. It was a pretty good fighter, but there are better ones out there.
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XtinctionAgenda

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#140 XtinctionAgenda
Member since 2007 • 628 Posts
I had DOA4 (before my 360 fell over and it became unplayable). I only got to play it for a week, only really did each characters story mode. It was a pretty good fighter, but there are better ones out there.HappyInvader101
That's illogical, unless of course you're saying DOAU is better. No other fighter has online play.
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DevilMightCry

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#141 DevilMightCry
Member since 2007 • 3554 Posts

[QUOTE="HappyInvader101"]I had DOA4 (before my 360 fell over and it became unplayable). I only got to play it for a week, only really did each characters story mode. It was a pretty good fighter, but there are better ones out there.XtinctionAgenda
That's illogical, unless of course you're saying DOAU is better. No other fighter has online play.

Really?

Maybe you missed the memo about the first online fighter on XB (or console for that matter)? Capcom vs. SNK 2?

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XtinctionAgenda

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#142 XtinctionAgenda
Member since 2007 • 628 Posts

[QUOTE="XtinctionAgenda"][QUOTE="HappyInvader101"]I had DOA4 (before my 360 fell over and it became unplayable). I only got to play it for a week, only really did each characters story mode. It was a pretty good fighter, but there are better ones out there.DevilMightCry

That's illogical, unless of course you're saying DOAU is better. No other fighter has online play.

Really?

Maybe you missed the memo about the first online fighter on XB (or console for that matter)? Capcom vs. SNK 2?

We are talking next gen fighters here.
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XtinctionAgenda

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#144 XtinctionAgenda
Member since 2007 • 628 Posts
[This message was deleted at the request of a moderator or administrator]DevilMightCry
Could you rephrase what you meant to say?
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Blackbond

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#145 Blackbond
Member since 2005 • 24516 Posts
Damn it looks like I'm late to the party. Anways I started my DOA plaing with DOA2 on Dreamcast. Awesome game way ahead of its time. Tag Matches, Team Grabs, Destructable Environments, Brutal Moves, I liked how brutal the grabs looked and counters are always a plus to. Definately one of my most played games on Dreamcast.

DOA3 didn't impress me as much as DOA2. A lot of moves were changed, I did like double wall hits, and other things but to me there just wasn't enough change in the game besides better graphics and the game being slightly more balanced.

DOAU was amazing in my opinion. The games graphics were upgraded past DOA3 the countering was a tad bit harder (or different) it took me a bit to adjust. It had tons of unlockables, and the best part is it had online. Online is amazing well unless you are playing in college which sucks.

DOA4 to me was what DOA3 should have been. Meaning the jump from one game to another. I liked the new characters, the ability to slam people into the ground, a little more balance (yes they nerfed the Izuna Drop). The game just came together wonderfully.

I am not really fond of the Tekken series, Tekken Tag Turned me off and Tekken 4 was the clincher. Nobody that has a PS2 will buy Tekken 5 which pisses me off...I might buy it for them.

Virtua Fighter 4 is an amazing game. This is the game that most people in my hall play. The game is extermely tight and the slightest mistep will can cause great disaster. This game is the reason my  DOA skills have fallen lately. Its hard to go back and forth each night playing these games because I do DOA themes in VF and VF themes in DOA.

My fighting game ratings would be VF > DOA > Tekken. But to be fair Tekken is the only one out of the three that doesn't have a next gen release.
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Citan_Uzuki

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#146 Citan_Uzuki
Member since 2002 • 1865 Posts
well for some readon 75% of my post was deleted when I posted so I'm not even going to boither with my response at this point because it wopuld probably do little top encourage discussion in this thread that the author obviously doesn't want a unbiased discussion